Multiple devices. Timers going to wrong device.

grampus · Post by **grampus** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 09:13

There are a number of folk with multiple devices.
We have been experiencing a few different problems.

I'm plagiarizing a post by Pri on the Ice forum here.

* Timer sent, but server still shows "queued";
This shows up as a doughnut in Ice, but the timer is present in the box. This never rectifies itself.

* Error in sending timer, but no apparent cause;
This shows up as a Yellow triangle indicating an error. generally means that you have overlapping timers. My belief is that it is caused by the next symptom. The timer has been sent to the wrong box which already has 2 timers set for the period.

* Timer sent to wrong device;
We find timers set in the wrong box, or if not noticed, we have recording present in the box that we know should have been in the other box.

In the case of timers being sent to the wrong box, I have talked with Ice techs a number of times, and generally they indicate that the problem is in the BW. The thought is that it will be the second BW on your Ice list. That it erroneously selects the first device, ID=0, when it should be ID=1.
I am wondering, that for the other cases, it may be that the wrong selection of a box could be the root cause.

They have also stated that this has been reported by them to BW.

I have also talked with BW support on a number of occasions, which has resulted in an understanding of the problem but not the cause. One tech advised that he would like to set up a trace on a test rig. But that was some time ago. I would imagine that this test would be difficult to monitor as the problem is very intermittent.

How can I get some visibility of this problem?

Can I get it placed on the bugs list?

The problem has been around in one form or another for maybe a year.
My current FW is .07.065 for the Lite, and .05.346 for the S1.

Do the beta testers know if there is any activity by the s/w engineers on this problem?

Half Round · Post by **Half Round** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 09:35

Looking from outside, as I don't use ICE, I fail to see how the BW could be at fault. I would have though it is like a letter from the Post Office the data is either wrongly addressed or delivered to the incorrect recipient. Perhaps error checking is weak or none existent in the protocols used.

grampus · Post by **grampus** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 09:57

Half Round wrote:Looking from outside, as I don't use ICE, I fail to see how the BW could be at fault. I would have though it is like a letter from the Post Office the data is either wrongly addressed or delivered to the incorrect recipient. Perhaps error checking is weak or none existent in the protocols used.

One part of the puzzle is in the way that the selection is done.
After one has got the logon access correct by marrying up the box names, the next thing is to go through device selection from the BW, this looks at the Ice server, and you select which device in the Ice list you wish to use. This is done by ID (number).
This number is then used by the BW to make the request of any new timers.
If you have 2 devices in your list, you have 2 separate timer lists in the Ice server. . Each one equated to an ID. (this is an assumption).

The Ice protocol is not a push, its a pull only, I.E. the Ice server doesn't send the timers unbidden.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:40

Hi Grampus,

grampus wrote:I'm plagiarizing a post by Pri on the Ice forum here.
...

They have also stated that this has been reported by them to BW.

Can I get it placed on the bugs list?

It looks like Peter has already raised the issue in the appropriate place. It could be a matter of excuse or deflection for IceTV to blame Beyonwiz. If IceTV want the issue attended to by Beyonwiz then they are in a *far* better position to get the attention of Beyonwiz than *anyone* here. They did, after all, work with Beyonwiz to get the feature implemented in the first place. This issue will be far better addressed engineer to engineer. None of the development or any other work done so far was done via this user forum. After the two parties compare notes and the issue is proved to be a Beyonwiz problem then it should be added as a Beyonwiz bug.

Regards,
Ian.

grampus · Post by **grampus** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 13:39

I think Peter raised the problem around a year ago.
The issue has been raised at both houses by myself over the last few months.

How do we get Engineer to Engineer dialogue?

I really don't care who's problem it is.
Except that our problem is we are sitting in the middle.

I really would just like it to get more visibility.

grampus · Post by **grampus** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 13:44

Bump.

Do the beta testers know if there is any activity by the s/w engineers on this problem?

Ian, I take it from your null response is that at least one of the beta testers has no knowledge of this being worked on.
Are there any others that can comment?

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 13:47

IanSav wrote:...
It looks like Peter has already raised the issue in the appropriate place. ...

Peter first posted on the IceTV forum about timers being sent but the Web page still showing "queued" more than a year ago

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 13:49

Hi Grampus,

grampus wrote:How do we get Engineer to Engineer dialogue?

Ring both IceTV and Beyonwiz and request that they communicate directly with each other to resolve the issue.

Regards,
Ian.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 13:56

Hi Grampus,

grampus wrote:Bump.

Why bump a current post?

grampus wrote:Ian, I take it from your null response is that at least one of the beta testers has no knowledge of this being worked on.
Are there any others that can comment?

My null response was because I had nothing informative to contribute. As has been *well* publicised elsewhere, beta testers are not meant to discuss what goes on within the beta testing process.

That rule aside this issue is not currently being explored. In my opinion it is more likely to be an IceTV issue anyway. I believe that IceTV are responsible for the code that runs at either end of the connection. They appear to be the only side that have enough information, control and/or logs to explore the issue. From the Beyonwiz side, there are other far more important issues to pursue particularly when IceTV could be more responsive to an issue with their system/protocol.

Regards,
Ian.

grampus · Post by **grampus** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 14:55

IanSav wrote: Why bump a current post?
.

I bumped it so that, that particular portion of the query didn't get lost.
I got the answer I needed, thanks.

grampus · Post by **grampus** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 15:04

I may have a way of getting around the "timers sent to the wrong box" problem..

Going on the statement that the BW is sending up a request for device ID = 0 instead of ID = 1.
I now have a dummy device as the first one in the list.
No timers will be setup here.
The idea is that if the BW is erroneously requesting for device 0, nothing gets sent, and then on another request later when it calls for any updates for the correct box, then all should be well.

I deleted both devices in the Ice Web server. deleted all timers in both my BW's.
Then I added a new device I called Dummy for obvious reasons as my first one in the list. This one I will never use.
Then added my 2 real boxes.

On the BW's I then reselected the devices in the Ice TV section.
These are now individually ID = 1, and ID = 2.
Then recreated my timers.

I did a resend all devices for all timers, and waited patiently till they turned up in the BW's.

I am assuming that it will take some weeks to get an indication that this get around may be an answer.

I still see a red doughnut in the Ice Server for a timer that this been set correctly in the correct box, so I am assuming that this is a separate problem.

I've discussed this today with both Ice and BW.
Ice support don't see the get around as causing any problems.
BW still have a need to trace this, to verify that this is the problem.

grampus · Post by **grampus** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 13:58

Its now been 3 weeks since my "getaround".
Since I created a new set of devices with a dummy device as the first one, I have not seen any instance of clashing timers when there shouldn't be nor Have I see timers going to the wrong box.

Now that I've said that I'll probably get one.