T4 Channel selection by keying in a number only eg. 7, 9, 10

[000]

Hello Beyonwiz Forum folks,

I'm relatively new to Beyonwiz and the T4. I've figured out most things I need to know (and the forum has been a great read too -- thank you). But one issue I'm stuck on his how to key in a channel number directly via the T4 remote.

If I key in say, the number "2" on the remote, I get the 7TWO channel (as it's 2nd in my bouquet list of channels). I really wanted the ABC.
If I key the number "9", I get the ABC (as it's 9th in my bouquet). I really wanted Channel Nine (which is 4th on the bouquet -- so keying in '4' would work).
If I key the number "72", I correctly get 7TWO -- since I guess there is no item with the bouquet number 72 (my bouquet goes up to no more than 15).

I've been working through all the T4's settings, including under Channel Selection Settings, and I don't seem to be able to get it to work the way an old fashioned TV remote would work (just keying in the station number). I've tried settings such as:

• Alternate numbering mode
• Channel list service mode (various)
• Number press action (various)

and several other options there, but without success.

I have my bouquet of channels listed in a logical (to me) order of grouping (e.g. Channel 7-related together, Channel 9-related together, and so on). So I'm not after a workaround of putting the channels in a particular order (e.g. putting ABC in 2nd place, to make "2" work for ABC, putting Channel 9 in 9th place etc.).

I know I can use the EPG (and usually do) to chose a channel that way. But if I just want to jump from one station to another, I'd like to be able to key in a logical number to get there, without having to remember that "ABC = key in 9", "Channel 9 = key in 4", and so on.

Is someone able to enlighten me on how this might be achieved ?

Much appreciated,
D.

[prl]

It's not possible to set up a favourites list on the T series with LCN numbering and the LCNs in other than numerical order. It's even moderately difficult to create a favourites lists with only selected channels with LCN numbering (and with the channels in strict LCN ordering (it can't be done in the normal user interface).

The problem is covered in enhancement request #228: Option to use LCNs for numbering services in Favourites & other bouquets. But don't hold your breath. It's harder to do than you might expect, and it's been in the issues tracker since May 2014, when the T3 was still in beta.

[Gully]

This may or may not be an acceptable solution/workaround but so you know that with Harmony remotes you can set up "favourites" for Watching TV, where you select the TV services you most watch, add icons and tell the remote what key presses go to that service. So when I tap the icon for ABC1 it goes straight there, etc.

[000]

Wow, thanks Peter and Gully.

I would have thought that this would be a common (and user-solvable) request. Oh well. Yep, I won't hold my breath -- there is obviously lots involved.

A clever and interesting idea with the universal remote (e.g. Harmony). I'd prefer to use the standard buttons if possible, as my wife would like to use either the Beyonwiz remote, or the RF-based Bose Lifestyle remote (which currently doesn't have IR codes for the T4, but supposedly a software update is in the pipeline).

I've also used the T4's web interface if I have my iPhone handy... But I'd prefer to keep to the native T4 remote if possible.

Cheers,
D.

[prl]

...
I would have thought that this would be a common (and user-solvable) request. ...

It is; and it isn't. I wrote the enhancement request. I've also had a look at the code, and it's not simple. Part of the problem is that the T series firmware doesn't really use LCNs internally.

What look like LCNs in the Terrestrial LCN list that's created when you scan are in fact just index positions in the list. The list position is made to correspond to the LCN by adding padding entries that aren't displayed in the user interface. It's strongly not recommended to try to fix the problem by editing unwanted entries out of the Terrestrial LCN list in the Favourites editor. Doing that or (especially) trying to reorder the Terrestrial LCN list will just create a mess, because the Favourites list editor doesn't handle padding sensibly.

It is possible to make a copy of the Terrestrial LCN file, replace the unwanted entries (like the infotainment channels) with padding and then copy that file to replace an empty favourites list. But even there, there are no LCNs in that file, so you have to work out the LCN by counting.

The file looks like this:

Code: Select all

#NAME Terrestrial TV LCN
#SERVICE 1:64:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0::Terrestrial TV LCN
##DESCRIPTION Terrestrial TV LCN
#SERVICE 1:832:d:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:
#SERVICE 1:0:1:211:211:1010:EEEE0000:0:0:0:
#SERVICE 1:0:1:351:350:3202:EEEE0000:0:0:0:
#SERVICE 1:832:d:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:
#SERVICE 1:0:1:807:807:320C:EEEE0000:0:0:0:
#SERVICE 1:0:1:946:99E:3281:EEEE0000:0:0:0:
#SERVICE 1:832:d:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:

The 1:832:d:0:0:0:0:0:0:0: entries are padding. By counting (only 1:0: and 1:832: #SERVICE entries), 1:0:1:211:211:1010:EEEE0000:0:0:0: is LCN 2 (ABC), 1:0:1:351:350:3202:EEEE0000:0:0:0: is LCN 3 (SBS ONE), 1:0:1:807:807:320C:EEEE0000:0:0:0: is LCN 5 (SC10 Canberra), and so on.

[IanSav]

Hi,

Further to Prl's reply...

The underlying issue is that well known LCN number navigation (pressing 7 for LCN-7 or 9 for LCN-9 etc) is not in common use for the countries where Enigma2 (the basis for the Beyonwiz firmware) is derived. In those markets there are so many channels, which over time, often change channel numbers it has become common practice to navigate and select channels by their name. Due to the volume of channels available in some of those places channels are often divided into groups, called Bouquets. All these groupings and subdivisions could play havoc with organised numbering. This typical use of named channel selection is why it is the method of channel selection that is best catered for on the Beyonwiz.

To effectively change this will require structural changes at the core of Enigma2 that will have many and wide spread implications. So much code would need to be changed and then tested that the effort may yet prove to not be worthwhile. It would certainly totally orphan the Beyonwiz firmware from all its siblings.

Regards,
Ian.

[prl]

I think IanSav's a bit pessimistic about the extent of the changes necessary to use LCNs, but it's still not a small job.

[000]

It is possible to make a copy of the Terrestrial LCN file, replace the unwanted entries (like the infotainment channels) with padding and then copy that file to replace an empty favourites list. But even there, there are no LCNs in that file, so you have to work out the LCN by counting.

OK, sounds like a possibility. Any tips on what path I'll find the LCN files at?

Many thanks,
D.

[MrQuade]

If you are absolutely dead-set on keeping the LCN numbering then you can find the files in:
/etc/enigma2

This can be found under the "Root" share if you are looking at the wiz over the network.

The bouquet files are the ones with the ".tv" extension.

Just note that the big limitation in this LCN numbering hack is that you cannot sort the channels in any arbitrary order, they must be listed in your bouquet in LCN order. So the channel 10 services will appear before the extra 7 and 9 services etc...
Also, once you have created your custom bouquet with your favourite channels, then you will not be able to edit it in the usual Beyonwiz GUI. That's fine though, as you would be unlikely to need to edit it once it has been manually constructed the first time.

[000]

Excellent, thank you. Found it. OK, I'll have a little [safe] play with a copy of one of the bouquets.

D.

[IanSav]

Hi Prl,

I think IanSav's a bit pessimistic about the extent of the changes necessary to use LCNs, but it's still not a small job.

Not pessimistic just realistic.

The LCN and channel name decoding and mapping is an important and potentially core part of Enigma2. When I first expressed a desire for having the LCNs directly matched to the numeric input I was told that this was not easy. I wrote some narrative on how I thought it could and should be done. I even worked out the cases for how it could work to protect the current usage models for the other Enigma2 markets. (So the same code could be used and shared with all Enigma2 builds.) There were too many other issues being worked on so my proposals were never progressed.

I started looking at the code myself and found that it was conceptually easy to say how to do it but changing the code started to get complicated and seemed to have a cascade change look about it. In the end I concluded that such a change was going to be significant and stood little to no chance of being accepted into the core code.

I am hopeful that my proposals will be revisited in the future when the more pressing issues have been resolved.

Regards,
Ian.

[000]

Many thanks everyone, for your work-around tips, and background info and tips.

I've now got a working favourites group (duplicate of the Terrestrial LCN list, minus shopping), with working channel selection via number only.

I found the higher numbers (72, 73, 90, 99) were a little "off" in my first attempt. So I added a little more padding, and it all sorted it's self out.

Handy tip for anyone else attempting the same thing: I found rebooting the GUI from your T4's web interface was the quickest way to ensure the T4 re-loaded the updated favourite bouquet correctly (then test each shortcut number works correctly).

Handy tip2: If you're not sure which service number was in your list (or if you get confused), you can verify this by choosing the channel on the T4, then looking in the web interface under the 'Current' tab of Television. It lists it there for the current channel.

Enjoy.
D.

[IanB]

You don't need to restart the GUI, there is an option to reload all the Bouquets under Menu while in the Bouquets Selection screen.

[000]

You don't need to restart the GUI, there is an option to reload all the Bouquets under Menu while in the Bouquets Selection screen.

Ah, that was easier! Thank you.

D.

[dman]

Apologies for bumping this thread, but it actually answered one of my questions.

The T series are the first DVRs I have encountered that don't actively use the LCN in the EPG.

After reading this thread I can understand the history and maybe the reasoning behind not using LCNs in other markets, but LCNs are fairly useful and often I find people referring to the LCN rather than the name of the channel.

Since I've just moved from Melbourne to regional Victioria, the LCNs are all different here with the exception of ABC and SBS.

My next question is to find out who is responsible for the picons for WIN Bendigo and ask really nicely if these could be updated please - I assume this requires a firmware update or similar?

I'd be quite happy with just the generic WIN logos please ...

Cheers, Darren

[prl]

.. My next question is to find out who is responsible for the picons for WIN Bendigo and ask really nicely if these could be updated please - I assume this requires a firmware update or similar?
...

Several people are involved in the production of the picons: me, IanSav, IanB and peteru, principally.

To get picons for a region that doesn't have them, or to update the picons if the channel selection changes for a region, follow the instructions in Request for updates for channel picons.

[BigTrev]

This worked on my T2
(it was an accidental discovery!):

On Remote press:
EPG
With EPG displayed, press TV
on top left, select "Terrestrial TV LCN", and press OK,
Display should now be in channel order
Press "Exit"

Now you can enter "24" OK, to change to ABC News for example.
The EPG will continue to show channel number rather than Service number.

That stayed in place over both "standby" and "reboot" (haven't tried complete power off yet!)

[prl]

That has always been there on all of the T/U/V series models

The problem with using it is the effort needed to make favourites lists that have numbering that follows the channel number numbering. Only the Terrestrial TV LCN channel list has that property by default, and it's messy to emulate how that's done.

Some settings for enabling number buttons for skips will disable this capability.