How to improve your Beyonwiz's reception

Discussions on Digital TV, Signal Areas, Scheduling and Programs.

Moderators: Gully, peteru

Post Reply
User avatar
NPR
Master
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 16:34
Location: Melbourne, Australia

How to improve your Beyonwiz's reception

Post by NPR » Thu Mar 20, 2008 14:28

Improving Your Reception.

Introduction to the digital reception check list
The Beyonwiz is a complex and capable PVR that performs best with an optimal digital signal. Due to the variances between digital tuners, it is not uncommon for a newly installed digital receiver to discover reception issues not present with the old one. If you are experiencing reception issues, the following list of 'do-it-yourself' checks may rectify the problem. This advice does not replace quality, professional installation, which is always advisable should you experience ongoing problems.

Important Safety Advice
- Antenna installation and maintenance often requires working at heights. It is imperative that you take all precautions to ensure your safety. If there are any doubts about your safety - STOP! Professional installation is your best option.
- Ensure all power is disconnected from your units/mast head amplifiers etc before working with your antenna setup. This will not only avoid possible electrocution, but will reduce the chances of damaging your tuners.
- Safety warnings don't come much more obvious than this one - Don't work with your antenna during stormy conditions. Lightning strikes do occur, particularly towards the tropics or during summer. Is your antenna mast grounded (earthed)? Be sensible about reception problem solving.


The Antenna
Generally, if you have good analogue reception on all available channels, this should translate to good digital reception. Similarly, most modern antennas if installed properly will receive a digital signal. It?s important to recognise that antenna design and suitability can be complex. When selecting an antenna, always seek professional advice.
- Check the suitability of your antenna for your area, and that it?s directed appropriately. Ultimately, professional measurement is required to confirm this, as many of the inbuilt tuner signal strength meters represent a guide only. This is certainly true of the Beyonwiz.
- Indoor antennas are generally inferior to outdoor antennas, particularly when trying to receive a digital signal. Indoor antennas should be seen as a 'last resort' if an outdoor antenna is not feasible.
- Swapping from analogue to digital? The way poor reception manifests itself with a digital tuner is somewhat different from analogue. An analogue picture may look reasonable, however the digital equivalent may present with pixilation, sudden sound distortion, and/or momentary loss of sound or vision. Unlike analogue signals which progressively fade, digital signals tend to suddenly fail (remember the difference between your analogue and digital phone reception?), hence the description ?digital cliff.? In summary;
- A new digital tuner is often the way users discover their reception is only ?adequate?.
- Ensure the antenna design channel range matches that of the channels being used. See under 'Geography' a link to a comprehensive overview of channel frequencies based on location.
- Verify that your antenna is able to receive the digital band. An antenna boasting 'Digital Ready' may simply be analogue that can also receive digital. It cannot be stressed enough that correct antenna selection is the cornerstone for reliable reception. Do the research, review the DTV forum and seek (reputable) professional advice.
- High gain antenna already installed? The higher the gain, the more directional they tend to be. Is it truly parallel to the transmission? Has it been properly installed and calibrated?
- Is it secure and the connections well insulated? Are you getting reception issues under windy or wet conditions? This might indicate improperly installed supportive structures and lack of weather proofing connections.
- Look closely at the antenna. It's surprising how often an antenna is found to be damaged on closer inspection. Birds, wind, hail and tree branches are common causes of damage. Replacement is the best option for a damaged antenna.
- Check balun connections. Secure? Rusted?
These links provides detailed insight into digital reception and define terms.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=12098

Geography
One size does not fit all. Each area requires specific needs, a list too great for the realms of this guide. Advice that may be right for someone in the suburbs can be irrelevant to those in rural areas.
- Where are you in relation to transmission towers? Do you have direct line of sight? Have a look around at your neighbour's antenna masts. Elevated/high masts may represent line of sight issues in your area due to terrain, buildings or trees.
- Do you require a high gain antenna or an antenna that receives a specific bandwidth in your area? Discuss with your neighbour's/local installer if they too have signal issues and the avenues they had to adopt to manage these.
- Are there issues with reflected signals? Hills, buildings etc? Analogue reception would normally show these reflected signals as 'ghosting'. While digital's advantage is the lack of ghosting, the presence of ghosting during analogue viewing may indicate general reception calibration issues. Professional installers will often refer to 'Bit Error Rate', of which one determinant is the degree of reflected signal. Again, to achieve the cleanest signal may require advanced antenna selection and professional calibration.
- Trees and buildings can have a surprisingly negative effect if they lie in the line of sight. Is there a more suitable position for your antenna?

The ?DVT Forum? provides excellent information on how to best receive digital according to location. See:
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showforum=82

Channels and Frequencies
For more advanced information on channels and frequencies, visit; http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_9150
The document at the end of the above link (entitled : ACMA Radio and Television Broadcasting Stations, ACMA stands for Australian Communication and Media Authority) is reasonably complex, so the following info will help you navigate through the numbers(credits to prl): Look up your location in this chapter "Chapter 8: Television by Area Served" , and the Digital TV channels are highlighted in light purple. The channel number is the digit(s) at the end of each station entry in the Callsign,Channel column. For example, in Canberra, the digital channel entries are CTC6, ABC9A, WIN11, CBN12 and SBS 30, the corresponding channel numbers are 6, 9A, 11, 12 and 30, so I have my BW set up to limit its scan to channels 6-30. Other locations will have different channel assignments; you can't assume the assignments from somewhere else will be the same where you are.

Channels and Frequencies viewed via Google Earth!
Listed on the Beyonwiz Software site, prl has written a terrific Perl script that lets you display most of the ACMA TV & Radio Broadcasters book information in Google Earth. You get placemarkers for each broadcast site, with a popup for the transmitter details. Highly recommended for those wanting exact localities of their closest towers, establishing the bearing from your home and the associative frequencies. For those unfamiliar with Perl scripts, the file contains a step-by-step guide to executing the script within windows... It's worth the effort!
Find it here;
http://www.beyonwizsoftware.net/softwar ... cemarks/0/

Cabling
Do not underestimate the importance of quality cabling and connectors. Coaxial cabling of poor quality can act like an antenna itself, actively digesting wayward electronic signals not associated with digital TV transmission.
- Check for frayed, cracked or generally poor condition cabling. Importantly, apparently intact cables can be damaged, as the fine woven conducting material inside coax can separate, yet the ductile outer sheath appears unharmed. If in doubt, replace.
- Distance = signal loss. Minimise cable length where possible.
- Use quad shielded RG6 cable and F connectors. Quad-shielded cable is well-isolated; i.e. it has good rejection of electromagnetic interference (other than what the antenna feeds it anyway). The shielding itself actually needs to be as good a conductor as possible. Good insulation is also important for signal strength, as the relative quality is measured by the lossiness of the insulator between the core and the shield. Theoretically, none of the signal field is outside the coax (this is the mirror property of the cable's good interference rejection), so the lossiness of the jacket insulation isn't important.
- The jacket insulation does need to be reasonably mechanically robust and thick enough to protect against any accidental contact with bare 240V connections. However, the lossiness of the core insulation isn't the only factor in signal deterioration, the resistance of the conductor is also important. So the overall loss figure for the cable (measured in dB/m) is the important thing for the loss component of cable quality: In short; The lower the dB/m figure, the better.
- Is the cabling loose? Tension and continual movement can fray cables internally, while the plastic outer shield may still appear intact.
- Likewise, installation that has created sharp, angular turns of the cable can damage cheaper coaxial types.
- Coaxial cabling requires unique connectors that demand patience and attention to detail to fit. Recheck connectors for their patency and quality of installation.
- An expensive professional installation that includes high quality quad-shielded cable can be significantly compromised by introducing ?Two Dollar Shop? cable, even in short lengths. Look for weak links in the chain.

Multiple tuners/receivers/TVs off the one antenna?
Splitters are often the weak link in the chain, and range in quality. ?Splitter? output signals are inevitably weaker than the signals from the antenna, particularly if many outputs are used.
- Be careful of splitters, they can often degrade reception, even in single use.
- Many external splitter boxes suffer from rust and weather damage, degrading signal.
- Check other reception access points in your house. Damaged? Poorly installed?
- If your antenna is amplified, does the splitter lie before or after the amplifier? It?s important that amplification occurs before splitting the reception, as one arm of the antenna network will not benefit from amplification. Indeed, amplification is often implemented to improve reception where more than one outlet has been installed. See below for further info on amplification.

Signal amplification
Signal amplification can improve signal strength, but can also exaggerate the effects of a poorly installed antenna, over-amplify a signal, amplify interference or simply be of poor manufacture so as to serve little or no purpose at all.
- Signal amplification cannot compensate for a poorly installed antenna. A low gain antenna mixed with amplification results in moderate gain and high noise/Bit Error Rate. Generally, signal amplification should be introduced after all other avenues at improving reception have been exhausted.
- Is the unit?s amplification adjustable? Start with minimal amplification first. Over amplification can overwhelm a tuner.
- Generally speaking, masthead amplifiers are more successful at improving reception, than the indoor style. Having the amplifier closer to the antenna (hence the term 'masthead') reduces noise and interference amplification.

Again, the DTV forum has a wealth of information in regards to masthead amplification.
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=35056

Interference
Antennas can be a sponge for interference. While most antenna designs ensure specific wavelength reception, our wireless world with a high concentration of electronic devices make an uninterrupted signal all the more unlikely, and of course, you get what you pay for. Do not expect cheap antennas to achieve the ultimate reception in fringe areas, or those prone to interference.
- Common sources of interference include: Fridges, washing machines, microwaves (generally high wattage appliances), motors, computers, mobile phones or other electrical or electronic device. The 'blips', 'pops' and pixelation often associated with a compromised digital signal are referred to as 'Impulse' interferences. In short, can you associate the moment of interference with one of the afore mentioned sources commencing operation?
- Loose cable or a damaged antenna is a common cause of interference and poor reception.
- Check for close proximity of power cables, bundled or twisted-together cabling, particularly if cheap, poorly insulated coax is used.
- When running an in-line RF Surge protector (often contained within 'home-theatre' power-boards), check to make sure it's not the source of the problem by eliminating it from the setup.

...and finally, the Beyonwiz itself
After addressing all of the above points, it might be prudent to do the following.
- If you have altered the reception hardware, it may be worth re-tuning the Beyonwiz.
- Although factory resets are usually not necessary after firmware updates, if you are having reception issues after an update it may be worthwhile to reset and re-tune.
- Using the antenna loop to provide signal to a second device (TV, another PVR etc) does not degrade reception, according to BW tech staff who have tested this possible cause of signal degradation. It is noteworthy however that the cable used should be high quality and as short as possible. The signal can be degraded by interference from a short loop-through cable, particularly when surrounded by EMR inducing hi-fi equipment.
- Don't be misled by the '+5V' option listed in the system menu. This is for compatible masthead amplifiers, most of which in Australia require 9-12volts. In short, this option does not 'boost' your reception and should remain off.
- Finally, BW have recognised that tuner improvement needs to be investigated from a hardware/software side. It's worth keeping an eye on the conversation taking place the 'Official response to tuner issues thread;
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1856

Other resources

A series of Government generated PDF help documents can be located at this address;
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_300044
http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/ma ... ndbook.pdf

Want to know more about digital television. The Australian Communications and Media Authority web site can assist, here;
http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/ma ... ndbook.pdf

Furthermore, the DVT forum has a substantial section dedicated to digital reception.
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showforum=79

The ABC have a reasonably detailed ?Reception advice guide? and even a contact number for those who are experiencing digital reception issues.
http://www.abc.net.au/reception/

Feedback
This is an evolving document that will grow with forum input. Feel free to offer advice, corrections or personal experiences :D
Last edited by NPR on Thu Sep 10, 2009 21:04, edited 27 times in total.
Philips plasma, Harmon Kardon amp, Logitec 525 Uni Remote, Klipsch speakers
BW, after owning a Toppy 7000, after owning a Media Centre, after owning a Strong box

User avatar
DaveR
Wizard
Posts: 2527
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 01:24
Location: Sydney

Post by DaveR » Fri Mar 21, 2008 21:05

Nice work.
cheers
DaveR

IceTV, T4, T3, T2, P2, S1, FV-L1(P1 fw), TRF-2460, HDR-7500 and Skippa

User avatar
NPR
Master
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 16:34
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by NPR » Sat Mar 22, 2008 08:23

Thanks Dave. I look forward to any requests, additions, comments or corrections.
Last edited by NPR on Sat Mar 22, 2008 09:54, edited 1 time in total.
Philips plasma, Harmon Kardon amp, Logitec 525 Uni Remote, Klipsch speakers
BW, after owning a Toppy 7000, after owning a Media Centre, after owning a Strong box

User avatar
Gully
Moderator
Posts: 7736
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 22:08
Location: Melbourne

Post by Gully » Sat Mar 22, 2008 09:14

And just let Dave or I know when you want a tidy up and deleting the extra posts.
Cheers
Gully
_____________
Beyonwiz U4
Logitech Harmony Elite
Google Pixel 6 Pro

User avatar
dg
Master
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 17:57
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by dg » Mon Sep 07, 2009 08:05

Hi NPR,

I just helped a friend diagnose a problem with their new DP-P1 installation.

Location: Western Sydney.
Symptoms were:
-Severe pixelation only on channel 7.
-Signal Strength (SS) : Constantly 99%
-Quality (SQ): Fluctuating between 50% to 90%

Friend suspected a tuner problem with the DP-P1.

Diagnosis.
1) Noted SS and SQ on Main Tuner for channel 7.
-SS: Constantly 99%
-SQ: Fluctuating between 50% to 90%
2) Changed channel to 9.
3) Activated a recording for channel 9.
(This locked Main Tuner to 9 and enables use of slave tuner.)
4) Changed channel to 7. (using slave tuner now.)
5) Noted SS and SQ on Slave Tuner for channel 7.
-SS: Constantly 99%
-SQ: Fluctuating between 50% to 90%

Given that Main and Slave tuners were reporting same SS and SQ, I doubted a tuner problem unless power supply was faulty.

Investigated aerial cabling and found a HPM power board with RF surge protector in line on the aerial cabling.
Removed HPM surge protector from inline.

Channel 7 pixelation disappeared.
-Slave SS: 99%
-Slave SQ:99%
-Main SS: 99%
-Main SQ:99%

Conclusion:
1) RF Surge Protector incompatible or faulty and/or
2) Aerial and cabling installation is marginal.

At this point I have recommended installation of a new Surge Protector and see what happens.

DG
DP-P2, 1.05.350, 100MB, HDMI-1080i, Hitachi 42PD7800TA, OpticalAudio, Sony STRDG700S, HarmonyOne
DP-S1, 1.05.350, 100MB, HDMI- 720p, LG 32LX2D, HarmonyOne
IceTV, WPN824v2, LACIE d2 Network 1TB NAS

User avatar
tonymy01
Uber Wizard
Posts: 6373
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 15:25
Location: Sydney, Australia DP-S1-1TB, DP-P2-2TB, DP-T4-2TB, DP-T4-BB... too many!
Contact:

Post by tonymy01 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 08:40

Does he run a masthead amplifier? Maybe if the power pack for the masthead was *after* the surge protector, it would effectively stop the power from being fed up to the amp?
Tony

User avatar
NPR
Master
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 16:34
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by NPR » Wed Sep 09, 2009 20:31

dg wrote: Conclusion:
1) RF Surge Protector incompatible or faulty and/or
2) Aerial and cabling installation is marginal.

At this point I have recommended installation of a new Surge Protector and see what happens.

DG
Hi DG

Is this the sort of item you're talking about?

Image

In my limited and amateur experience I have come across many very cheap and poorly constructed versions of these (ebay, computer swap meets etc) and it wouldn't surprise me that in addition to your (probably correct) assumptions, the board may be:

- Poor quality circuitry/soldering/wiring
- Poor EMI insulation from power transformers connected to the offending power board
- The addition of yet another two connections introduces more points of failure (especially if they're not of the F type)

Lastly;
- I would echo Tony's thoughts; If a mast head amplifier is connected, the 9-12V may be creating havoc/preventing power to the amplifier with the surge protection circuit (maybe) and/or amplification may be interfering with the surge protection
- Is the 5V power from the BW off?

I'd certainly like to add it to the list as a 'Have you checked this' item if you think it was indeed the source of your problems.
Philips plasma, Harmon Kardon amp, Logitec 525 Uni Remote, Klipsch speakers
BW, after owning a Toppy 7000, after owning a Media Centre, after owning a Strong box

User avatar
dg
Master
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 17:57
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by dg » Thu Sep 10, 2009 08:05

Hi Guys,

Yes, that was the sort of thing. I don't have details of the exact model though.
There was no mast head amplifier and the "5V Power" was off.
Definitely agree that this should be added to the list of things to be checked.

I need to check if he has put a new surge arrestor in.

DG
DP-P2, 1.05.350, 100MB, HDMI-1080i, Hitachi 42PD7800TA, OpticalAudio, Sony STRDG700S, HarmonyOne
DP-S1, 1.05.350, 100MB, HDMI- 720p, LG 32LX2D, HarmonyOne
IceTV, WPN824v2, LACIE d2 Network 1TB NAS

User avatar
NPR
Master
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 16:34
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by NPR » Thu Sep 10, 2009 21:00

dg wrote:Hi Guys,

Yes, that was the sort of thing. I don't have details of the exact model though.
There was no mast head amplifier and the "5V Power" was off.
Definitely agree that this should be added to the list of things to be checked.

I need to check if he has put a new surge arrestor in.

DG
Added. Thanks DG
Philips plasma, Harmon Kardon amp, Logitec 525 Uni Remote, Klipsch speakers
BW, after owning a Toppy 7000, after owning a Media Centre, after owning a Strong box

User avatar
madmax
Wizard
Posts: 4069
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 22:32
Location: Keilor East, Melbourne

Post by madmax » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:09

My Dad is having trouble with all Ch.7 services. It started about 1 month ago. Signal strength on his S1 is fine (99%) but signal quality is way down (~60%). This results is breakups and freezes every couple of seconds, rendering these services unwatchable. Viewing via his Panasonic TV's tuner is better (as expected), but still poor and often unwatchable. All other services are ok.

The question is, is this something a regular antenna servicer (such as Jim's) can improve or fix? What is usually the cause of this problem (e.g. interference?).

User avatar
brianh
Wizard
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:36
Location: SW Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by brianh » Thu Aug 16, 2012 13:24

sounds very specific to that frequency - unless ch7 is on a vastly different frequency to others in your area, any major antenna problem should affect other adjacent stations as well..... unless you're getting some weird tuned filter effect from a defect in your cabling/connection, I would check the antenna to see it hasn't had one element knocked off, otherwise ring the station to see if they're doing some work... ( although that should affect strength not quality..)

Have you given his system a visual inspection?
Have there been any changes in the "local environment" - i.e. any new equipment at your dad's, anything built between there & the tower, that sort of thing??
Cheers,
Brian


1) 2 x T4, Samsung UA46C7000/Yamaha RX-V6A
2) Spare DP-P2s/ Samsung UA46C6900/Sony STR-DE497/RX-V540
Harmony 650 + all the spare remotes.....

IanSav
Uber Wizard
Posts: 16846
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 15:00
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by IanSav » Thu Aug 16, 2012 13:41

Hi Madmax,

If an antenna person checks the antenna cables they may find a break in the shield that is allowing in the noise. They may find the antenna itself has shifted.

An antenna service technician could probably fix the antenna system to improve the signal quality but if there is not problem there then it would probably also be worthwhile identifying the likely source of interference. This will be external to the antenna system. It could be a sparking appliance or switch etc. The source may not be in your house. It could be at a neighbour or in the street cables.

Did something change about the time the problems started? Are any appliances noisier than usual? Any switches started sparking when you operate them? All of these could create an impulse of electrical noise that could be getting into your antenna system and disrupting the signal quality.

Regards,
Ian.

User avatar
madmax
Wizard
Posts: 4069
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 22:32
Location: Keilor East, Melbourne

Post by madmax » Thu Aug 16, 2012 15:08

New aerial and cabling installed ~2 years ago. The only other event he can think of that occurred around 1 month ago was the installation of a smart meter.

Apparently the quality readings are slightly better during business hours (~60%) and drop to 40-50% after hours.

Does any of that help?

sub3R
Wizard
Posts: 2638
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:20
Location: Port Macquarie NSW. Reception from Middle Brother.

Post by sub3R » Thu Aug 16, 2012 21:14

madmax wrote:...
The question is, is this something a regular antenna servicer (such as Jim's) can improve or fix? What is usually the cause of this problem (e.g. interference?).
Madmax, it depends how good the antenna servicer is. With low quality & good signal strength readings on the S1 it sounds like interference to me.
Are you in a position to do some fault finding yourself? If so here are a few things to think about.

In addition to what has already been mentioned; what is different about channel 7? Is it UHF whereas the other channels are VHF, or vice versa. Is it horizontally polarized whereas the others are vertically polarized, or vice versa. What frequency is channel 7 on & what frequencies are the other channels on?
Is it possible that channel 7 is being received from another transmitter (duplicate services?) – although this will usually give low signal strength but reasonable quality on the S1’s signal & quality readings. The Panasonic TV’s signal strength & quality readings will be more reliable than the S1s (at least my model one is). But at least with the readings you are getting on the S1 you will be able to see when it improves.
What is the location like where your dad lives – rural, house in a street block, city hi-rise?

If it is interference it could be a badly designed or faulty switch mode power supply somewhere. I have read a few reports about cheap power supplies for LED lights interfering with digital services on TVs. Faulty electric fences or poor earthing of electric fences on rural properties can also cause interference. As Ian mentioned the problem could also be external to the building. I don’t know much about smart meters but I believe they can cause interference on some bands – not sure about TV though. Is the smart meter close to the TV antenna?

A couple of things you could to try:
Is there another antenna wall outlet in another room you could try the S1 & TV on?
Try completely removing the S1 out of the system & connect only the TV to the antenna wall plug & see if channel 7 comes good.
The TV is a bit more difficult to isolate & check, but you could completely remove the TV from the system & let the S1 timer record a channel 7 service to see how it played back later.
Try & eliminate anything in the house that can be causing interference; Isolate all circuits at the meter box except for the power circuit the TV is using. There will probably be two power circuits so run the TV & the S1 on one circuit & isolate all other circuits. Then swap the TV & the S1 to the other power circuit & isolate all other circuits. You may need an extension lead to do this & daytime would allow isolation of the light circuit/s.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

User avatar
madmax
Wizard
Posts: 4069
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 22:32
Location: Keilor East, Melbourne

Post by madmax » Thu Aug 16, 2012 23:37

Thanks subby, a lot to think about there. He lives in Essendon West, on the lee side of a hill wrt the Dandenong trasmitters, regular house. I think we can rule out electric fences. :) He had a really tall mast in the old analogue days, in order to get decent reception. Not as tall now with the new 'digital' aerial, but it's been fine for the first 2 years. 7 network services are on Ch.6, 177.5 MHz (same as mine, and I'm just 2km further away).

I'll have to look into the power circuits, but he does have a second antenna point in the master bedroom which apparently exhibits the same problem (on another Panasonic TV).

IanSav
Uber Wizard
Posts: 16846
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 15:00
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by IanSav » Fri Aug 17, 2012 00:00

Hi Madmax,

If the Smart Meter is the only thing that has changed about the time problems started then it is a good place to start your investigation.

I am sure you have heard about Smart Meters that have caught fire or blown up. This is often caused by poor installation where the cables are not securely connected. This causes arcing and overheating that eventually lead to the fire. A side affect of the arcing could also be interference on the TV. If you are sure about the timing of the problem and the Smart Meter installation then try contacting the installer and tell them the problems being experienced on the TV. Ask them to come back and check / test their installation. You could ask them if it is reasonable to install a different Smart Meter to check if that isn't the cause of the problem. Perhaps at the unit they gave you is faulty.

Regards,
Ian.

IanB
Wizard
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 14:04
Location: Melbourne

Post by IanB » Fri Aug 17, 2012 08:56

It always amazes me how much fuddle and confusion gets generated by such a simple and concise post.
madmax wrote:My Dad is having trouble with all Ch.7 services. It started about 1 month ago.
And the obvious thing to ask is what changed. And the answer was a new smarta... meter. Of course to be thorough every new electronic thing needs to be considered, including any replaced low energy light globes.
Signal strength on his S1 is fine (99%) but signal quality is way down (~60%).
This is a clincher. Previous good history, Strong signal, Poor quality => definitely interference! Cross check other channels against history, they maybe the same or also have quality slightly reduced. Another channel with slightly reduced quality confirms broad interference but centred on the primary affected channel.
This results is breakups and freezes every couple of seconds, rendering these services unwatchable. Viewing via his Panasonic TV's tuner is better (as expected), but still poor and often unwatchable. All other services are ok.
And confirmation, an independent unit also with similar problems. For reference do we have some historical comparisons for the Pana's tuner status.
The question is, is this something a regular antenna servicer (such as Jim's) can improve or fix? What is usually the cause of this problem (e.g. interference?).
Someone with the right test equipment should be able to confirm the interference easily. A simple strength meter won't be much help, but those fancy spectrum analyser devices many installer now use should be the ticket. But this will cost you a service call.

As most of us do not have fancy test equipment available we have to make do with what we have.

Okay first is any analog CRT TV set. Tune it to analog VHF 6 where 7digital lives. You should just see smooth snow. DTV is designed to present as simple white noise to analog TVs. Patterns of strong regular speckle or lines indicate interference. Compare with VHF 8 where 9digital lives. If you can see some junk, then you can see it go when you finally find the culprit.

Second an AM radio tuned between stations, do you hear a buzz? Wander around the house looking for where it is strongest. You suspect the smarta... meter, wave the radio next to it, any change in noise.

Third talk to the neighbours. Are they also having channel 7digital problems. If they are, it's just not you.

You could contact the ACMA, they are the authority to deal with interference complaints, but they are under funded and tend to only respond to wider area complaints.

User avatar
madmax
Wizard
Posts: 4069
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 22:32
Location: Keilor East, Melbourne

Post by madmax » Fri Aug 17, 2012 09:29

Thanks all, more good tips there. Damn, we just tossed out the last analogue TVs only 2 weeks ago in the hard rubbish collection. :( Will try the analogue radio trick. Don't mind copping a service call, so long as they can confirm the interference and then actually do something about it, instead of saying 'bad luck, sorry but we can't help you'.

prl
Wizard God
Posts: 32697
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 13:49
Location: Canberra; Black Mountain Tower transmitters

Post by prl » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:45

madmax wrote:... Will try the analogue radio trick. ....
Remember, though, that this will only find sources of wide-band interference that might affect your TV. An AM radio is sensitive around 1MHz; digital TV is on around 150-800MHz. In particular, Seven Melbourne (Mt Dandenong) is on 177.5MHz (174-181MHz).

The fact that only Seven services are affected by the interference (if that is the cause) suggests that this may not be wide-band interference.

The radio trick may well still work, but there's a reasonable chance that it won't. It's still worth a try, though, in particular near the smart meter.
Peter
T4 HDMI
U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV

sub3R
Wizard
Posts: 2638
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:20
Location: Port Macquarie NSW. Reception from Middle Brother.

Post by sub3R » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:19

prl wrote:...
The fact that only Seven services are affected by the interference (if that is the cause) suggests that this may not be wide-band interference.

The radio trick may well still work, but there's a reasonable chance that it won't. It's still worth a try, though, in particular near the smart meter.
Yes, I’ve had a lot of success tracking down noisy HV insulators causing interference this way, but not much success with noise at higher frequencies.

Madmax, seeing the TV in the other room is also suffering from the same symptoms, I wouldn’t worry about relocating the S1 & TV for testing. When I suggested isolating the various circuits at the switchboard I also meant to switch off everything else on the circuit still supplying the TV – try to eliminate everything possible in the house that can cause the possible interference or pick it up.

The smart meter could be the cause but it could also be a red herring.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

IanSav
Uber Wizard
Posts: 16846
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 15:00
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by IanSav » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:56

Hi,

We should also keep in mind that it is possible that the antenna cable has become damaged such that it is now letting in noise that is usually present but had previously been kept out of the TV signal. For example, pets, birds, mice, rats or possums may have taken to chewing into the cable somewhere along its run. ;)

Regards,
Ian.

Post Reply

Return to “Digital TV”