ICE TV Set Up Probs

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 14:46

Just upgraded to the new FW, didn't think to write down my ICETV W-LAN settings.

It found my Mac Ok and collected the W-LAN settings. I've tried various settings there to no avail. Have ICETV turned on and inserted correct (ICETV) ID and Password.

Keep gettng message no network.

any suggestions?.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 16:04

Foxtail wrote:Just upgraded to the new FW, didn't think to write down my ICETV W-LAN settings.

It found my Mac Ok and collected the W-LAN settings. I've tried various settings there to no avail. Have ICETV turned on and inserted correct (ICETV) ID and Password.

Keep gettng message no network.

any suggestions?.

Where do you get the message?
There are no "IceTV W-LAN" settings - there are W-LAN settings (Set-Up>Network>Setting) and IceTV account settings (Set-Up>Network>IceTV). Which one don't you have?

The correct settings for W-LAN vary according to whether you have DHCP enabled and what (if any) flavour of security you use.

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 17:28

Sorry I ment W-LAN,

There all available, I just get lost with this sort of thing, going to ring ICETV tomorrow, they got be going last time I think.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 17:33

Foxtail wrote:Sorry I ment W-LAN,

There all available, I just get lost with this sort of thing, going to ring ICETV tomorrow, they got be going last time I think.

Do you know what the security settings are on your W-LAN router?

Javelyn · Post by **Javelyn** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 18:14

Foxtail

I had the same problem. IceTV kept telling me that there was no network but I could see folders on my PC. What solved the problem for me was to actually go into the Network menu and then into the DHCP and actually set with the red button and apply the settings.

IceTV then worked.

Javelyn

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 18:18

Javelyn wrote:I had the same problem. IceTV kept telling me that there was no network but I could see folders on my PC. What solved the problem for me was to actually go into the Network menu and then into the DHCP and actually set with the red button and apply the settings.

IceTV then worked.

So you are saying that you disabled DHCP? But hadn't Applied the settings you set?

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 18:50

Dave? wrote:
Javelyn wrote:I had the same problem. IceTV kept telling me that there was no network but I could see folders on my PC. What solved the problem for me was to actually go into the Network menu and then into the DHCP and actually set with the red button and apply the settings.

IceTV then worked.
So you are saying that you disabled DHCP? But hadn't Applied the settings you set?

I think that enabling W-LAN itself won't attempt to contact the DHCP server. Generally you have to select W-LAN, set the security style, and then press RED for Apply, and then the DHCP will be attempted and the connection set up.

Javelyn · Post by **Javelyn** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 19:50

Whoops

I missed the W-LAN references. I have a LAN setup. Sorry.

Javelyn

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 07:22

prl wrote:
Foxtail wrote:Sorry I ment W-LAN,

There all available, I just get lost with this sort of thing, going to ring ICETV tomorrow, they got be going last time I think.
Do you know what the security settings are on your W-LAN router?

No I don't but before this new FW upgrade ICETV was working fine.

Also I've pressed the red button to keep the latest settings.

When I go check the W-Lan Status shows all the relevent numbers and details in a black window.

In ICETV in select devce nothing shows like it did before.

I see there are 2 new items now in settings in panel at left -

WIZPNP
Windows Sharing

I have nothing in these. Not sure if this is to do with Windows based conputers?, I'm on a Mac.

Also I have nothing in Default Key ID
or Key 1.

I have DHCP disonnected

I've tried changing all sorts of settings but no luck yet.

Also I've cleared the ICETV cache a number of times thinking it was that.

I just keep getting the message "Failed to get channel list.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:07

That isn't an ICE problem, it sounds like you still don't have your network setup properly.
Are you using wireless or ethernet cable?
Regardless of that, for a new user new to this stuff, I would definitely recommend turning DHCP on, as this fills out all your IP addresses (esp with the default settings of 99% of routers) and an IP address is what you need for the Wiz to communicate with the internet. Once you get your LAN or WIRELESS setup correctly, then the ICE stuff will be able to talk to the internet (assuming you have put the correct username and password).
Regards

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:15

I agree with the suggestion about DHCP. As well as giving the BW an internet address, it also tells the BW what its gateway is (who to send messages to when they aren't bound for the local network, like www.icetv.com.au) and what its DNS server is (that will convert Internet names like www.icetv.com.au into their Internet addresses - 202.125.163.43 for IceTV).

DHCP is usually the best way to get this information for a home setup.

What message do you get when you select SetUp>Network>IceGuide>Check User Info and press OK?

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 16:05

Thanks for your input guys.

Today I spoke with both ICETV & BW people, we tried all sorts of set ups, plus turning off/on modem, airport, BW etc but none worked. The ICETC guy said theya re receiving noting from me. Its a wireless connection problem between my Mac and the BW.

Oh' DHCP is on too.

In my previous BW set up in: service - device, one BW would show up in the grey panel, now it doesn't.

I get the message try to get channel list then - failed to get channel list.

Funny thing in settings status, its all there in a black window. It looks like its connected but somehow its not.

crazy uh'.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 16:33

Foxtail wrote:Thanks for your input guys.

Today I spoke with both ICETV & BW people, we tried all sorts of set ups, plus turning off/on modem, airport, BW etc but none worked. The ICETC guy said theya re receiving noting from me. Its a wireless connection problem between my Mac and the BW.

Oh' DHCP is on too.

In my previous BW set up in: service - device, one BW would show up in the grey panel, now it doesn't.

I get the message try to get channel list then - failed to get channel list.

Funny thing in settings status, its all there in a black window. It looks like its connected but somehow its not.

crazy uh'.

The BW shouldn't be going through your Mac to get to IceTV. It should go to the router, then straight out your ADSL connection (or whatever you have to the outside world). In this, the role of the Mac is just to configure your router.

In the Setup>Network>Setting>W-LAN window, what happens when you press GREEN for Status?

What message do you get when you select Setup>Network>IceGuide>Check User Info and press OK?

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 16:46

Sorry its not thru the mac its through the roughter and Mac airport device which is lugged into PP.

When I go to Setup>Network>Setting>W-LAN window I get a message can't find no connection etc.

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 07:43

During one of the many setting changes trying to get the ICETV guide, a few days came through, didn't get any message though, which setting it was on at the time, have no idea. Hoever, I see other guys only got 2 das also.

Going to call ICETV again today.

Apparently the ICETV download is only available once, then each 24 hours?.

martymonster · Post by **martymonster** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 08:27

Foxtail wrote:During one of the many setting changes trying to get the ICETV guide, a few days came through, didn't get any message though, which setting it was on at the time, have no idea.

Going to call ICETV again today.

Is the ICETV download only available once each 24 hours?.

Hi,
No, the guide can be D/L'd multiple times per day.
Mine is D/Ld to my BW, PC, and my 2 Topfields.

On your BW, first set up your Networking (Wireless or wired) and verify that you can PING the BW from your PC.
If you are NOT using DHCP on your BW, ensure that the Gateway and DNS server address points to your router.

Then make sure you have an ICE TV account setup - go to ICeTV web site

Then, on your BW, enter your IceTV UserID and password.

This is the procedure I have followed.

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:35

Tried all that still no luck. Its still telling me its all there but continue to get the message... can't find the ICETV EPG.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:51

Hi Martymonster,

Are you sure that the full guide can be loaded repeatedly by the same device?

I think you will find that a complete download is severely restricted (I think 1 per day) but EPG updates can be loaded far more frequently (I think 1 per 15 minutes).

Regards,
Ian.

martymonster · Post by **martymonster** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:59

IanSav wrote:Hi Martymonster,

Are you sure that the full guide can be loaded repeatedly by the same device?

I think you will find that a complete download is severely restricted (I think 1 per day) but EPG updates can be loaded far more frequently (I think 1 per 15 minutes).

Regards,
Ian.

Hi,

I have my PC and 2 Toppiies download the guide every day at different times.
I do not know when or how often the BW downloads the guide when it is turned on.
When I check each device, they all have the complete updated guide.

How can you tell if they download a partial or full guide.

I can test tonight by clearing the cache on both Toppies and force a new download

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 13:42

Well I'm at the end of my tether, tried every setting I can think of, been in and out of the setup and ICETV 100 times, uploaded FW (again), reformatted HD, factory reset, cleared cache, turned off/on BW, modem and Apple airport, you name it I've done it, called both ICE TV & BW people, all to no avail. Its something simple I'm sure but I'm darned if I can find it.

I'm totally f frustrated knowing it worked fine with the previous BW FW it came with but not now.

Edit:

Network Device W-Lan
DHCP: Disable
All numbers are showing in IP, Subnet Mask, Gateway etc and Mac airport address

Status OK

Network Device W-LAN
Network Name: ...... (BW found this)
Network Type: Infrastructure
Auth: AUTO
Encryption Type: WEP
Default key 1.
Key 1. Airport password but tried various names and numbers.

Ice Guide: Enable
Owner ID: .....
Owner Password: .......
Check info: get message success in finding device list and failed to get channel list.
In select device grey window its blank.

HELP!

martymonster · Post by **martymonster** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 16:45

IanSav wrote:Hi Martymonster,

Are you sure that the full guide can be loaded repeatedly by the same device?

I think you will find that a complete download is severely restricted (I think 1 per day) but EPG updates can be loaded far more frequently (I think 1 per 15 minutes).

Regards,
Ian.

I just logged into bothToppies and deleted ALL the Cache files from the ICE directory on both Toppies.
I then told one of them the fetch the data and it feteched all 7 days.
2 minutes later I told the other Toppy to fetch the data and it fetched all 7 days.
I then deleted the Cache data again on one of the Toppies and 2 minutes later told it to fecth the data again and it did.

I then told my PC to Reload the Ice data and it also worked OK.

Martin

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 17:04

Fogive me if I?have misunderstood something here, but from what I?have read on these forums, the ICE?data isn't limited to once every 24hours, it is the channel data when first connecting that is limited to once every 24hours. I can see the wiz does a "retrieving channel details" or some such message when I?try to connect, and this looks like a preliminary connection that the wiz negotiates between ICE and the Wiz to establish how to map the channels and what channels it needs to get. ?It is this info that someone posted here that is limited, NOT?the epg data itself.
Regards

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 17:11

tonymy01 wrote:Fogive me if I have misunderstood something here, but from what I have read on these forums, the ICE data isn't limited to once every 24hours, it is the channel data when first connecting that is limited to once every 24hours. ...

Its a bit puzzling why downloading that would be restricted, because in the TF7000HDPVRt data format at least, the mapping tables are tiny compared to 7 day's EPG data.

danielicetv, can you set us straight on why there were so many reports of long retry delays when we upgraded to 01.04.144 in the last few days?

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 18:32

Hi,

I will totally defer on all things IceTV related. I don't use IceTV and know very little about it. I was only echoing what I had read earlier.

Regards,
Ian.

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 08:29

I get a message busy try again later, does this mean I need to wait 24 hours to try again?.

danielicetv · Post by **danielicetv** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 09:13

To clarify a few things here. There are two requests that the Beyonwiz makes to the server. The first is a channels list (which does contain all the LCN information), this request is limited to once every 24 hours. The second is the actual EPG request, this is limited to once per hour. Also these limits are only in place for devices using the guide via IceTV Remote, for devices that don't use IceTV Remote to get the guide (e.g. Topfield, DGTEC, Windows Media Center) then the downloads are limlited to 12 per day.

And for some good news, Foxtail should be up and running now, it seems that the Beyonwiz doesn't like the "Auth" to be set to "Auto", once this was changed to "Open" (and ensuring DHCP was on) the network connected and the guide downloaded immediately.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 09:49

danielicetv wrote:To clarify a few things here. There are two requests that the Beyonwiz makes to the server. The first is a channels list (which does contain all the LCN information), this request is limited to once every 24 hours. The second is the actual EPG request, this is limited to once per hour. Also these limits are only in place for devices using the guide via IceTV Remote, for devices that don't use IceTV Remote to get the guide (e.g. Topfield, DGTEC, Windows Media Center) then the downloads are limlited to 12 per day.

And for some good news, Foxtail should be up and running now, it seems that the Beyonwiz doesn't like the "Auth" to be set to "Auto", once this was changed to "Open" (and ensuring DHCP was on) the network connected and the guide downloaded immediately.

The problem with that 24-hour limit is that it appears that something caused a fair number of users to miss the first LCN table download when they reset their BW to factory settings and re-entered their IceTV settings. That blocked their whole IceTV access. The forum folk, being quite inventive, found a way to bypass the 24-hour limit, and were able to get their IceTV going, but it shouldn't have to be like that.

I'm glad that Foxtail's access problems have been fixed. I suspected that it might be an authentication problem. I hope that Foxtail wasn't advised to leave the W-LAN security on Open.

danielicetv · Post by **danielicetv** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:08

It's still using WEP, but for WEP there are two security types which are "Open system" or "Shared Key". Auto should choose the correct one for the network, but it wasn't in this instance so it had to be specified.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:33

My Nokia phone and my Wiz both won't work as auto to my 802.11b router, I had to set both of them up as shared key. I said right from the start that this wasn't an ICE prob! I guess the wiz needs a further option to prove network connectivity is good so you (ICEtv) don't get support calls from people blaming you guys when it is really a networking problem!

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:35

danielicetv wrote:And for some good news, Foxtail should be up and running now, it seems that the Beyonwiz doesn't like the "Auth" to be set to "Auto", once this was changed to "Open" (and ensuring DHCP was on) the network connected and the guide downloaded immediately.

Correct ICETV is up and running after fighting with it for days. I also turned modem off/on just in case.

I thought is would be something simple and it was, be sure I've written down the settings so next FW upgrade ICETV connection will go smoothly, thanks for all the input anyway guys and to the service guy (Daniel?) at ICETV who eventually fixed this problem.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:44

danielicetv wrote:It's still using WEP, but for WEP there are two security types which are "Open system" or "Shared Key". Auto should choose the correct one for the network, but it wasn't in this instance so it had to be specified.

I thought "Open system" meant that any computer in WiFi range could join the network without providing any authentication information, and that communication in the net was not encrypted. If it's a "security type", it's "no security".

danielicetv · Post by **danielicetv** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:51

Nope, "Open System" is still using encrypted traffic over the network, its just a different way to establishing the connection in the first place. Open system is actually more secure than Shared Key in terms of WEP.

More info on the differences can found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_Equi ... entication

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:04

danielicetv wrote:Nope, "Open System" is still using encrypted traffic over the network, its just a different way to establishing the connection in the first place. Open system is actually more secure than Shared Key in terms of WEP.

More info on the differences can found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_Equi ... entication

Yes, sorry, you're right about encryption.

However, with Open System, any computer inside WiFi range can join the network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_Equivalent_Privacy#Authentication wrote:In Open System authentication, the WLAN client need not provide its credentials to the Access Point during authentication. Thus, any client, regardless of its WEP keys, can authenticate itself with the Access Point and then attempt to associate. In effect, no authentication (in the true sense of the term) occurs.

danielicetv · Post by **danielicetv** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:13

But it also goes on to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_Equivalent_Privacy#Authentication wrote:At first glance, it might seem as though Shared Key authentication is more secure than Open System authentication, since the later offers no real authentication. However, it is quite the reverse. It is possible to derive the static WEP key by capturing the four handshake frames in Shared Key authentication. Hence is advisable to use Open System authentication for WEP authentication. (Note that both authentication mechanisms are weak).

dcw · Post by **dcw** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 18:51

danielicetv wrote:The first is a channels list (which does contain all the LCN information), this request is limited to once every 24 hours.

Daniel

What is the purpose of restricting the channel list download to once every 24 hours? As others have pointed out, the amount of data involved must be tiny!

It certainly confused & irritated me, and lead to me phoning your support line when there would otherwise have been no need.

Dave.

DrPhil · Post by **DrPhil** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 19:03

dcw wrote:
danielicetv wrote:The first is a channels list (which does contain all the LCN information), this request is limited to once every 24 hours.
Daniel

What is the purpose of restricting the channel list download to once every 24 hours? As others have pointed out, the amount of data involved must be tiny!

It certainly confused & irritated me, and lead to me phoning your support line when there would otherwise have been no need.

Dave.

And the fact you can download the XML for TED/S etc much more frequently (EDIT).

Phil

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 19:53

Foxtail wrote:
danielicetv wrote:And for some good news, Foxtail should be up and running now, it seems that the Beyonwiz doesn't like the "Auth" to be set to "Auto", once this was changed to "Open" (and ensuring DHCP was on) the network connected and the guide downloaded immediately.
Correct ICETV is up and running after fighting with it for days. I also turned modem off/on just in case.

I thought is would be something simple and it was, be sure I've written down the settings so next FW upgrade ICETV connection will go smoothly, thanks for all the input anyway guys and to the service guy (Daniel?) at ICETV who eventually fixed this problem.

Excellent detective work there Daniel.

Foxtail, I'm glad you've got the WLAN working again. I'll pass on this info to BW tech support so others won't go through the frustration you seem to have suffered.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 20:18

danielicetv wrote:But it also goes on to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_Equivalent_Privacy#Authentication wrote:At first glance, it might seem as though Shared Key authentication is more secure than Open System authentication, since the later offers no real authentication. However, it is quite the reverse. It is possible to derive the static WEP key by capturing the four handshake frames in Shared Key authentication. Hence is advisable to use Open System authentication for WEP authentication. (Note that both authentication mechanisms are weak).

That's about the security of the encryption. If you work out the key in WEP Shared Key, you can break both authentication and encryption. It's hard to break encryption in Open System, but there is essentially no authentication. Anyone in radio range can join and use your network.

Foxtail · Post by **Foxtail** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 07:57

Dave? wrote:
Foxtail wrote:
danielicetv wrote:
Foxtail, I'm glad you've got the WLAN working again. I'll pass on this info to BW tech support so others won't go through the frustration you seem to have suffered.

Good idea, if I had been informed to write down the ICETV settings before upgrading the latest FW it would have saved me much misery.

I'd like to see more on the ICETV site more about how to fix problems, surely by now they would have a raft of them.

Jammer · Post by **Jammer** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 08:32

Hi all,
Rather than starting a new thread re. an ICE-related problem I thought it'd be better to simply tack something to this existing thread.

I've been experiencing problems with ICE data not being updated automatically i.e. for the past 2 days I checked the guide in the evening (wanting to set a timer for weekend shows) and only had data till Friday, which I knew couldn't be right. I then checked the status of the ICE settings on the BW and, of course, I got the same old "Network busy, try again later" (or something like this) message which most users seem to get.

I then disabled/re-enabled ICE in the setup menu trying to force a manual update - and data was now only available till the end of Thursday. So I emptied the ICE data cache - and I got data till 11pm Friday night. This was around 11:30pm pm on Wed night....I was frustrated and went to bed.

I tried again last night when I noticed that I only had ICE data till 8pm Friday night. So I emptied the ICE data cache and after a few minutes noticed that I had data up till next Monday, and some data through Tuesday......now this is more like it!!

I'm not sure if this is a BW or ICE problem but it's really, really frustrating. Anyone got some tips, ideas, similar situations etc??

brianh · Post by **brianh** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:10

...If someone can collate the info, then add a reply to the FAQ & I will update it.

Jammer · Post by **Jammer** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:01

brianh wrote:...If someone can collate the info, then add a reply to the FAQ & I will update it.

?? What info?

brianh · Post by **brianh** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:46

danielicetv wrote:And for some good news, Foxtail should be up and running now, it seems that the Beyonwiz doesn't like the "Auth" to be set to "Auto", once this was changed to "Open" (and ensuring DHCP was on) the network connected and the guide downloaded immediately.

...and any other settings advice, configuration tips, etc. that new users would benefit from knowing.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 13:49

Jammer wrote:Hi all,
Rather than starting a new thread re. an ICE-related problem I thought it'd be better to simply tack something to this existing thread.

I've been experiencing problems with ICE data not being updated automatically i.e. for the past 2 days I checked the guide in the evening (wanting to set a timer for weekend shows) and only had data till Friday, which I knew couldn't be right. I then checked the status of the ICE settings on the BW and, of course, I got the same old "Network busy, try again later" (or something like this) message which most users seem to get.

I then disabled/re-enabled ICE in the setup menu trying to force a manual update - and data was now only available till the end of Thursday. So I emptied the ICE data cache - and I got data till 11pm Friday night. This was around 11:30pm pm on Wed night....I was frustrated and went to bed.

I tried again last night when I noticed that I only had ICE data till 8pm Friday night. So I emptied the ICE data cache and after a few minutes noticed that I had data up till next Monday, and some data through Tuesday......now this is more like it!!

I'm not sure if this is a BW or ICE problem but it's really, really frustrating. Anyone got some tips, ideas, similar situations etc??

Yep, I get similar problems. Especially with ABC and SBS as mentioned before elsewhere. Really annoying at times. I will have to consider not continuing subscription after the 3 free months unless things change.

Philip