Timer Inconsistencies

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rickm
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Timer Inconsistencies

Post by rickm » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:59

Hi,

I have two questinos regarding IceTV, please:

1. Why is it that when I set up a program to record the series, it comes up in Pop-up > Timer List as "once" in the right hand column? I have to go into it and edit it to show "weekly" to get it to record regularly.

2. Also, why is it that an exclamation mark shows up next to two programs (not all) in IceTV > My Week, but not with > My Shows? Twice now I have deleted the two shows and re-entered them. Initially they come up OK, but later the exclamation marks reappear. They show up OK in Pop-up > Timer List. Can I ignore it?

Thanks.

Have a good day,

Rick
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Re: Timer Inconsistencies

Post by grampus » Wed Oct 19, 2011 13:18

rickm wrote: 1. Why is it that when I set up a program to record the series, it comes up in Pop-up > Timer List as "once" in the right hand column? I have to go into it and edit it to show "weekly" to get it to record regularly.
That's due to the way Ice handle all this.
It's noted in the Ice Website a series recording requirement, but they only send out once only timers up to 5 days ahead. This will allow them to alter the time of recording or delete the recording on an individual basis if required.
2. Also, why is it that an exclamation mark shows up next to two programs (not all) in IceTV > My Week, but not with > My Shows? Twice now I have deleted the two shows and re-entered them. Initially they come up OK, but later the exclamation marks reappear. They show up OK in Pop-up > Timer List. Can I ignore it?
That would be due to the fact that the device the timer has been sent to has detected a problem trying to set the timer.
Either its there already, or there is timer clash that won't allow the device to set it.
If they are in your timer list correctly, ignore it.

I think that my shows is just that, shows that have been noted for recording, but I would think there would 2 different mechanisms to cater for your wish list as to actual about to be recorded.
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Post by grampus » Wed Oct 19, 2011 13:23

A question comes to mind.
Do you have more than one device in your Ice subscription.?
And if so what are they, and in which position is the BW?
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Re: Timer Inconsistencies

Post by madmax » Wed Oct 19, 2011 13:27

rickm wrote: I have to go into it and edit it to show "weekly" to get it to record regularly.
*Don't* do this!! As grampus said, IceTV does it this way for a good reason. After the 'Once' timer has fired, there will be a few days of nothing and then you'll find the timer for the following week will suddenly appear.

I suspect this is what is causing your second issue, too.

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Post by rickm » Wed Oct 19, 2011 19:07

Hey guys,

Thanks very much for your responses. Some comments/further questions, if I may please:
grampus wrote:. . . . I think that my shows is just that, shows that have been noted for recording, but I would think there would 2 different mechanisms to cater for your wish list as to actual about to be recorded.
Sorry grampus, but I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Suffice to say, the two programs are to be recorded on Friday and Saturday this week. Other shows before and after them do not have the exclamation mark. I have shows to be recorded on most days.
grampus wrote:A question comes to mind. Do you have more than one device in your Ice subscription.? And if so what are they, and in which position is the BW?
.

No. I only have one BW and no other devices. However I do access IceTV from two computers.
madmax wrote: . . . .*Don't* do this!! As grampus said, IceTV does it this way for a good reason. After the 'Once' timer has fired, there will be a few days of nothing and then you'll find the timer for the following week will suddenly appear. I suspect this is what is causing your second issue, too.
Maybe I don't quite understand what you're saying here, either. However, I can say that the problem first arose when I had to reset all my timers because of daylight saving (bu**er). After I had set them all up again, I noticed the "once" entry in pop-up > timer list. However, I felt sure they would all be OK and ignored the setting -- giving IceTV the benefit of the doubt.

However, after they had recorded once, they disappeared from the system -- if I looked in Pop-up > Timer List it was empty. I didn't notice this until a week had passed and realised that a program that was to be copied was not doing so. I manually started the recording 12 minutes late. When I had a chance, I went into IceTV and set it all up again (double bu**er). This time, I changed all the "Once" entries (on every program) to "Weekly" in Pop-up > Timer List. Since then, it has all been working fine.

Cheers,

Rick
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Post by madmax » Wed Oct 19, 2011 19:53

rickm wrote:I can say that the problem first arose when I had to reset all my timers because of daylight saving (bu**er). After I had set them all up again, I noticed the "once" entry in pop-up > timer list. However, I felt sure they would all be OK and ignored the setting -- giving IceTV the benefit of the doubt.

However, after they had recorded once, they disappeared from the system -- if I looked in Pop-up > Timer List it was empty.
As explained above, this is normal behaviour. The next week's timer will not be sent down to your Wiz immediately, it takes a few days. But it's unlikey that your Timer List would ever be completely empty, becuase if you have a few different series timers spread out across the week, you should always see some timers in your Timer List (the next 4 days or so).
rickm wrote:I didn't notice this until a week had passed and realised that a program that was to be copied was not doing so. I manually started the recording 12 minutes late.
This is not normal behaviour, clearly something you did at the DST changeover has made IceTV chuck a hissy fit.
rickm wrote:When I had a chance, I went into IceTV and set it all up again (double bu**er). This time, I changed all the "Once" entries (on every program) to "Weekly" in Pop-up > Timer List. Since then, it has all been working fine.
Maybe, but that's definitely *not* the way to do it, because now those series will never end, and those time slots will continue to be recorded even after the series has finished.

I've had problems in the past with IceTV with series recording, but only because I was experimenting with it and repeatedly setting up and cancelling timers and series (I was new to it back then). The whole thing got badly knotted up. I think the cure was to delete all my timers and EPG data, wait for a day or so and start afresh.

There is one rule you should follow - if you create or delete a timer on the Wiz, wait for at least 1 hour before making any changes via Ice's web guide which relate to the same timeslot. And vice versa. This is very important, to allow your Wiz to 'synch' with the IceTV servers. Otherise, you could have both machines trying to make changes to each other's timers simultaneously (= hissy fit).

My advice, clear all your timers and EPG data, wait for a few hours and start afresh like I did, then we'll take it one step at a time.

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Post by rickm » Thu Oct 20, 2011 06:25

G'day madmax,
madmax wrote:. . . . But it's unlikey that your Timer List would ever be completely empty, becuase if you have a few different series timers spread out across the week, you should always see some timers in your Timer List (the next 4 days or so).
Sorry buddy, but it was completely empty -- and, yes, I do have timers set on most days. However, I also accept your comment that this is not normal behaviour and probably something I did at the DST changeover that has made IceTV chuck a hissy fit. I accept as well, now, that those series will never end and the time slots will continue to be recorded even after the series has finished. Your comments explain why some new timers have been appearing that I didn't enter. I have been having bad thoughts about BW when it was my fault all along. ':oops:'

However, having entered everything twice now, I will wait until each series has ended and, if necessary, manually remove each of these timers then.
madmax wrote:. . . . There is one rule you should follow - if you create or delete a timer on the Wiz, wait for at least 1 hour before making any changes via Ice's web guide which relate to the same timeslot. And vice versa. This is very important, to allow your Wiz to 'synch' with the IceTV servers. Otherwise, you could have both machines trying to make changes to each other's timers simultaneously (= hissy fit).
OK. I understand that now and will follow the rule in the future if I can remember. Being an older fart, my memory is sometimes not as good as it should be :?. For me, at least, needing to reset it all up twice a year when we go into/out of daylight saving is a big negative for what is otherwise a brilliant system. Also, being male, I tend to run by the rule, "if at first you don't succeed, read the instructions". We'll see how it pans out.

Again, thanks for your help here. It really is most appreciated.

Have a good day,

Rick
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Post by IanSav » Thu Oct 20, 2011 08:19

Hi Rick,

Just for clarity, IceTV never sets recurring timers on the Beyonwiz. It sets up a single shot timer for every show that is recorded. If the show is regularly repeated IceTV will set a single shot timer for each occurrence of the show. It is this mechanism that allows IceTV to track the changing timeslots for any particular show. It should be possible for IceTV to set recurring timers and then change them if required but that does not appear to be the way IceTV works.

For IceTV to work the Beyonwiz must be in regular contact with the IceTV servers. Most timer events are sent a few days before the recording is required. IceTV does not work many days/weeks in advance. If the Beyonwiz remains off for many days at a time then it is likely that IceTV will not be able to send timer updates to the Beyonwiz. For this reason many users set up a daily view timer, often early in the morning while you are asleep, that forces the Beyonwiz to wake up on a regular basis so as to be able to synchronise timers with IceTV.

Regards,
Ian.

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Post by grampus » Thu Oct 20, 2011 08:25

Just as an addendum, not sure if its been noted in this thread. Apologies if it was.

One of the keys to success at DST changeover with Ice generated timers, is that it's not enough to individually delete timers to empty the timer list.
You need to go into menu>system>initialize>clear timers.
Apparently this will create a flag to the Ice server that the timer list really is empty.
the following resend all timers then seems to work a treat.
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Post by madmax » Thu Oct 20, 2011 08:42

grampus wrote:One of the keys to success at DST changeover with Ice generated timers, is that it's not enough to individually delete timers to empty the timer list.
You need to go into menu>system>initialize>clear timers.
Apparently this will create a flag to the Ice server that the timer list really is empty.
Really? Hmmm, never heard this before. Lucky I did that on the last changeover.....
rickm wrote:For me, at least, needing to reset it all up twice a year when we go into/out of daylight saving is a big negative for what is otherwise a brilliant system.
This is not necessary if the DST changeover is done properly, you are the only user so far who has reported this specific problem. I have no idea what caused it.

If you can remember, when DST ends in March, try to follow these steps:
How IceTV works (modified version) wrote:
  1. On the Beyonwiz go to the "Setup" via the remote control.
  2. On the second tab labelled "Network", go down to "IceGuide" on the side, and change it to Disable.
  3. Now go across to "System" -> "Initialise" -> "Clear EPG Cache".
  4. In the same menu, also do "Clear All Timers".
  5. Now go across to "Config" -> "Time" and change the timezone information (If you are using AUTO time then disable DST, for MANUAL or NETWORK time change the time offset by going back by 1 hour).
  6. Login to the IceTV website and go to the My Account section of the website.
  7. Click on the TV Recorders tab under the banner at the top of the screen.
  8. Click on the link to "Resend all recordings for all devices", this will re-queue all recordings and they will then be scheduled on the Beyonwiz during it's next update.
  9. Wait for 1 hour.
  10. Under the "Network" tab again in the setup of the Beyonwiz under IceGuide, set IceGuide back to Enable.
  11. Once the guide and timers have updated check your timers to ensure they are now showing up at the correct time.

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Post by prl » Thu Oct 20, 2011 09:09

madmax wrote:...
There is one rule you should follow - if you create or delete a timer on the Wiz, wait for at least 1 hour before making any changes via Ice's web guide which relate to the same timeslot. And vice versa. This is very important, to allow your Wiz to 'synch' with the IceTV servers. Otherise, you could have both machines trying to make changes to each other's timers simultaneously (= hissy fit). ...
The normal IceTV synch interval for timers is 30 minutes, though if the server is busy, that can be extended. The most reliable way to find out when the synch has taken place watch the status window in SETUP>Network>IceTV. The timer sync information is in the "scheduled tasks" messages. The normal EPG update interval is 60 min.
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Post by grampus » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:04

madmax wrote:
grampus wrote:One of the keys to success at DST changeover with Ice generated timers, is that it's not enough to individually delete timers to empty the timer list.
You need to go into menu>system>initialize>clear timers.
Apparently this will create a flag to the Ice server that the timer list really is empty.
Really? Hmmm, never heard this before. Lucky I did that on the last changeover.....
I wasn't fully aware of the issue till this changeover.
I was having a similar problem, or at least all my timers were "wonky" for want of a better word. I couldn't unwonky them as much as I tried clearing off the timer list individually, and resending.
After the clear all at the system level. All good.
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Post by madmax » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:58

grampus wrote:I wasn't fully aware of the issue till this changeover.
I was having a similar problem, or at least all my timers were "wonky" for want of a better word. I couldn't unwonky them as much as I tried clearing off the timer list individually, and resending.
After the clear all at the system level. All good.
I don't see why it would make any difference, because if you follow the steps correctly and disable Ice prior to deleting timers, there should be no communication between the Wiz and Ice for any 'wonkiness' to occur. But anyway, your observations will be taken on board.

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Post by madmax » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:00

Hey prl, maybe it's time to update those DST instructions in your post? Because some of it is a bit unclear, which is why I edited my version above (in fact, some of my post above was just off the top of my head, so needs further checking for accuracy).

Also, I reckon the "How IceTV Works" topic is worthy of being a sticky, Gully?

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Post by prl » Thu Oct 20, 2011 17:09

madmax wrote:Hey prl, maybe it's time to update those DST instructions in your post? Because some of it is a bit unclear, which is why I edited my version above (in fact, some of my post above was just off the top of my head, so needs further checking for accuracy). ...
I intend to, but Real Life is getting in the way a bit (planning an extension & some renovations). The numbered list of points are IceTV's words, not mine. I think they could do with a bit of work, especially given they assume that everyone has only one Beyonwiz.

I think I've already asked that this topic be made a sticky.
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Post by grampus » Thu Oct 20, 2011 18:06

madmax wrote:Hey prl, maybe it's time to update those DST instructions in your post? Because some of it is a bit unclear, which is why I edited my version above (in fact, some of my post above was just off the top of my head, so needs further checking for accuracy).

Also, I reckon the "How IceTV Works" topic is worthy of being a sticky, Gully?
Madmax, I think your version is pretty much on the money.
Maybe change step 5 to be more generic for any DST change.
Not sure about the wait an hour before you re-enable Ice on the BW.


I've been trying to find the reference I recall seeing from Ice re the issue of clear by initialize vs clear all timers individually, and of course can't find it.
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Post by Paul55 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 21:01

This from the IceTV website:
Topfield PVRs will require a factory reset before resending any recordings. See our Knowledgebase for more details.
BeyonWiz PVRs will require all timers to be cleared before resending any recordings.
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Post by madmax » Thu Oct 20, 2011 21:25

Paul55 wrote:This from the IceTV website:
Topfield PVRs will require a factory reset before resending any recordings. See our Knowledgebase for more details.
BeyonWiz PVRs will require all timers to be cleared before resending any recordings.
Found under My Account/TV Recorders
:? Unfortunately that sheds no light whatsoever.

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Post by rickm » Fri Oct 21, 2011 07:11

Hi guys,

Your advice here is most appreiciated. A big hearty THANKYOU ':D'.
rickm wrote:When I had a chance, I went into IceTV and set it all up again (double bu**er). This time, I changed all the "Once" entries (on every program) to "Weekly" in Pop-up > Timer List. Since then, it has all been working fine.
madmax wrote:Maybe, but that's definitely *not* the way to do it, because now those series will never end, and those time slots will continue to be recorded even after the series has finished. . . . My advice, clear all your timers and EPG data, wait for a few hours and start afresh like I did, then we'll take it one step at a time.
Yes, I'm aware of that now. However, I'll wait until a strange entry appears and delete it then rather than play with it and, possibly, screw it all up some more.

Sorry guys, but despite its brilliance overall, it's not very user friendly for klutzes like me.
IanSav wrote:. . . For IceTV to work the Beyonwiz must be in regular contact with the IceTV servers. . . . For this reason many users set up a daily view timer, often early in the morning while you are asleep, that forces the Beyonwiz to wake up on a regular basis so as to be able to synchronise timers with IceTV.
OK. How do I do that, please?
madmax wrote:If you can remember, when DST ends in March, try to follow these steps:
How IceTV works (modified version) wrote:
  1. On the Beyonwiz go to the "Setup" via the remote control.
  2. On the second tab labelled "Network", go down to "IceGuide" on the side, and change it to Disable.
  3. Now go across to "System" -> "Initialise" -> "Clear EPG Cache".
  4. In the same menu, also do "Clear All Timers".
  5. Now go across to "Config" -> "Time" and change the timezone information (If you are using AUTO time then disable DST, for MANUAL or NETWORK time change the time offset by going back by 1 hour).
  6. Login to the IceTV website and go to the My Account section of the website.
  7. Click on the TV Recorders tab under the banner at the top of the screen.
  8. Click on the link to "Resend all recordings for all devices", this will re-queue all recordings and they will then be scheduled on the Beyonwiz during it's next update.
  9. Wait for 1 hour.
  10. Under the "Network" tab again in the setup of the Beyonwiz under IceGuide, set IceGuide back to Enable.
  11. Once the guide and timers have updated check your timers to ensure they are now showing up at the correct time.
You know, apart from waiting an hour, I thought I did all that. Next time, I'll wait the statutory hour and, hopefully, it'll work better.
madmax wrote:Also, I reckon the "How IceTV Works" topic is worthy of being a sticky, Gully?
Yes, please. However do call it something that I am likely to search on. Please include the words, "DST" and "resetting timers" in the heading. Thanks. It might be "how IceTV works", but I probably would not saerch on that.

Cheers,

Rick
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Post by IanSav » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:49

Hi Rick,
rickm wrote:OK. How do I do that, please?
This is only required if you normally leave your Beyonwiz in Standby mode.

This is documented in the manual and in various posts on this forum.

Manually create a timer to run some time conveniently in the morning. Set the timer duration to something like about 30 minutes. Change the type of timer from "Record" to "View". It doesn't matter for what channel you set the timer.

Regards,
Ian.

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Post by prl » Fri Oct 21, 2011 14:33

rickm wrote:...
You know, apart from waiting an hour, I thought I did all that. Next time, I'll wait the statutory hour and, hopefully, it'll work better.
...
There's nothing "statutory" about it. If you look at my FAQ post, you'll see the rationale for the hour wait.
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Post by rickm » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:50

Sorry Peter. I wasn't having a go at you. Of course, you know better than me and I was just trying to say that I'd wait an hour as you had suggested, but without canvassing the whys and wherefores. Just acknowledging that someone more knowledgeable than me had said we should wait an hour and I will do so next time.

Have a good weekend,

Rick
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Post by prl » Sat Oct 22, 2011 16:26

rickm wrote:Sorry Peter. I wasn't having a go at you. ...
No problem, I didn't think you were. Just saying that the post is a collection of suggestions complied from the experience of the people on the forum and from IceTV's sometimes over-conservative postings about it. I issue no edicts and offer no guarantees :)
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