Truncated descriptions (Bug / Feature / Works as Designed) ?

Altimes · Post by **Altimes** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 22:00

Has anyone else noticed that the BW is truncating the program descriptions coming from ICE ? When you press the (i) to get the full description of the program, it looks as though the BW may have some (fixed?) limit to the amount of text that it stores. At a guess it looks suspiciously like a 512 byte block and it is not uncommon for descriptions to be a little longer than that. The description dialog provides for the scroll up/down functionality in the side bar, so it looks like the intent is there but has been missed in the implementation.

Hmmmm, makes you wonder if the "swiss cheese" effect in the EPG, that requires a cache clear to tidy up, might be a side effect of ICE delievering descriptions longer that the code expects, with the consequential buffer overflow clobbering subsequent entries.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 06:06

I can scroll down to continue seeing the full description. Have you tried scrolling?
Philip

Lex200 · Post by **Lex200** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 08:45

I've previously commented on this problem and haven't found a way to scroll.
How do you scroll? Which firmware are you using?

Bandit · Post by **Bandit** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 09:16

Lex200 wrote:I've previously commented on this problem and haven't found a way to scroll.
How do you scroll? Which firmware are you using?

Just press the "i" button (for "info" presumably).

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 09:30

Lex200 wrote:I've previously commented on this problem and haven't found a way to scroll.
How do you scroll? Which firmware are you using?

Up/down arrows.

Using latest firmware.

Philip

Altimes · Post by **Altimes** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 00:11

Also using the latest firmware.

When I went back yesterday to double check, it all seemed to be working. Long descriptions and the scrolling worked.

However......tonight, looking at an SBS movie description the problem re-appreared with the description showing up as below.

The story begins in 1960 in Krynica, a picturesque mountain spa in southern Poland, and follows the last eight years in the life of Nikifor, also known as Nikifor Krynicki (really Epifan Drowniak, 1895 - 1968), a self-taught painter, of obscure origins. It

A quick count show this to be about 256 characters.....funny number that.

So, I can confirm that the characteristic does exist in the latest firmware AND that it seems intermitent.

Altimes · Post by **Altimes** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 00:32

OK just to add to the puzzle. If, whilst watching a program, I press the (i) button twice to bring up the description, the description is truncated. However, if I press the (Guide) button, select the program and then press the (i), I get the full scrollable description.

So the button sequence that you use makes a difference.

But sadly, it is still not fully repeatable. Right now, looking at a channel Ten Torchwood description it shows a full, scrollable, description using both approaches. whilst the SBS is still truncated from the double (i) approach

Just to confirm, I have just cleared the cache and let it repopulate and the issue persisted. Channel Ten Torchwood worked as expected from both approaches. SBS Movie description is truncated when using the double (i) sequence, but complete and scrollable using (guide), select, (i) sequence. So the data has been delivered completely from ICETv, but the BW doesn't always display it all.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:02

Good work Altimes, looks like we are getting close to nailing this bug. We just need to do more tests on more channels to see if we can narrow it down even further.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:04

I had a bit of a hunt around the EPG last night, but could not find any truncated entries on SBS or any other channel. Will keep searching......

Altimes · Post by **Altimes** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 15:24

Just had a quick surf of the channels and it shows up again (SBS again???) with the 3-3:30 program double (i) ends "..60000 barrels high" the EGP + (i) show "...60000 barrels of highly toxic..."

I had a momentary thought that perhaps the double (i) was getting the data from the program stream rather than the ICE cache but when I clear the cache and shut off the net, then I get nothing at all - not unexpected.

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 17:01

I've had a look at the ice data for the 7000. The data for the AFL match on Ten on Sat 8th at 2pm has the extended data limited to 512 characters:

Hawthorn have this won before it starts. Here's why. Clarkson is optimistic (after being flogged), Guerra will guide his team through the finals (meaning they've already chalked this one up), Vandenburg reckons their shellacking was 'a good little lesson' and Campbell Brown says they will all work harder (why didn't they last week?). This is at Telstra Dome which holds no fears for The Crows. They have had more finals experience than any other top eight team except for Sydney. The Roo is on the mend and lo

but on the BW we get the full extended data of 684 characters:

Hawthorn have this won before it starts. Here's why. Clarkson is optimistic (after being flogged), Guerra will guide his team through the finals (meaning they've already chalked this one up), Vandenburg reckons their shellacking was 'a good little lesson' and Campbell Brown says they will all work harder (why didn't they last week?). This is at Telstra Dome which holds no fears for The Crows. They have had more finals experience than any other top eight team except for Sydney. The Roo is on the mend and looking awsome. And, Ben Rutten will put Franklin in his pocket. So whilst The Hawks have had a much better season than expected, tonight should be 'it' for them. Sorry Jeff.

Can someone check tomorrow between 2pm and 5pm to see how much data is shown when you press (i) twice while watching the game?

PS never mind. I just found an ABC program that was on now that shows the problem:

Fri 07/09 4:50pm ABC Roller Coaster

Pressing (i) while in the EPG seems to be limited to ??? characters (it's greater than 684, as determined above):

ABC TV's hit 'viewing destination' for 7-14 year olds Roller Coaster is returning in 2006 bigger, brighter and bolder than ever. Hosting the weekday afternoon 5.00-6.00pm timeslot, the quirky and often unpredictable Elliot Spencer will continue to amuse our loyal viewers.

But pressing (i) twice while watching live tv seems to be limited to 257 characters:

ABC TV's hit 'viewing destination' for 7-14 year olds Roller Coaster is returning in 2006 bigger, brighter and bolder than ever. Hosting the weekday afternoon 5.00-6.00pm timeslot, the quirky and often unpredictable Elliot Spencer will continue to amuse ou

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 17:06

madmax wrote:I had a bit of a hunt around the EPG last night, but could not find any truncated entries on SBS or any other channel. Will keep searching......

Today Tonight is the next scheduled progam that will show the problem.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 18:47

The IceTV protocol used by Beyonwiz to retrieve the EPG supports up to 4GB of data per field. Each EPG entry consists of several fields.

The database used by the Beyonwiz to store the EPG on the HDD by default supports about 1GB of data per row (EPG entry).

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 18:51

Ok, so for some reason the BW is limiting the extended info that it displays via pressing the (i) button twice during live TV viewing. We need to find out if this is a bug or there is some reason for this behaviour.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:07

Dave? wrote: Today Tonight is the next scheduled progam that will show the problem.

Hey, I checked it at 6:45pm, and you were spot on. But how did you know? From the guide it looked fine, but the double (i) thing only works when it's live.....

Some psychic ability perhaps?

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 02:12

madmax wrote:Hey, I checked it at 6:45pm, and you were spot on. But how did you know? From the guide it looked fine, but the double (i) thing only works when it's live..... Some psychic ability perhaps?

Can't plan World Domination without CIA type inside info

I just looked in the 7000's ice data file for the next program with extended info longer than 257 characters.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 07:16

Dave? wrote:
madmax wrote:Hey, I checked it at 6:45pm, and you were spot on. But how did you know? From the guide it looked fine, but the double (i) thing only works when it's live..... Some psychic ability perhaps?
Can't plan World Domination without CIA type inside info

I just looked in the 7000's ice data file for the next program with extended info longer than 257 characters.

Your plans will never succeed if you keep give secrets away.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 21:00

Dave? wrote: I just looked in the 7000's ice data file for the next program with extended info longer than 257 characters.

So that's the bug then? Any extended info longer than 256 characters gets truncated with the double (i) approach? Or does it not always happen?

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 23:34

Dave, still waiting for confirmation on this one. Is it repeatable? i.e. every description longer than 256 characters will be truncated with the double (i) approach? Or is it not that simple?

Altimes · Post by **Altimes** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 23:13

madmax, from my original investigation, it is not a simple 257character limit. Some descriptions are OK, some get truncated. What we can say is that

1) The truncation only occurs with the double (i) usage not Guide + (i).
2) When truncation occurs it is truncated to 257(?) characters.

I suspect that is enough information for the programmers to track it down.

Given that the BW people monitor the forum it would real nice if they could find a way to acknowledge that they can reproduce these issues such that we can finish chewing on them.

(even informally, such as a local person, like Jackie, saying that they can reproduce it)

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 23:32

Hi Alltimes,

Jackie is not local. He is at Beyonwiz headquarters in Korea.

I am sure that this report will be added to the bug list in due coarse, once it is verified by other people. Beyonwiz staff are very busy cutting code and developing new features for us all to have. Much of the testing and verification of bugs is being done by the beta testers. I am sure that someone will either confirm your observation or explain the situation. If it is a confirmed bug then Madmax will update the list. When updates are available the bug list will be updated.

Regards,
Ian.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 00:41

Added to bug list, "Miscellaneous" section.

Vortical · Post by **Vortical** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:24

Just used IceTV for the very first time last night on my DP-S1

Does Ice always record shows perfectly so they start just before the show starts and end not long after the show ends?

Or was it just a fluke my recording worked so perfectly with Stargate SG-1 last night?

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:43

Vortical wrote:Just used IceTV for the very first time last night on my DP-S1

Does Ice always record shows perfectly so they start just before the show starts and end not long after the show ends?

Or was it just a fluke my recording worked so perfectly with Stargate SG-1 last night?

Fluke. You should always edit your timers to start 2 minutes early and finish 10 minutes late, until autopadding is added to the feature list.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:49

Hi Madmax,

madmax wrote:Fluke. You should always edit your timers to start 2 minutes early and finish 10 minutes late, until autopadding is added to the feature list.

10 minutes!!!! That almost always gets the ends of shows cut off. Particularly late night Sci-Fi and even more particularly if they come after sports shows!

Regards,
Ian.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 13:06

Hence the relative limited appeal of a fixed autopadding. I think the BW is very quick to pad and you can do it individually for each show.
Philip

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 13:17

IanSav wrote:... even more particularly if they come after sports shows!

And even more particularly, after "reality" shows. The last Big Brother final went 55 minutes over

Bandit · Post by **Bandit** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 13:19

pjc3 wrote:Hence the relative limited appeal of a fixed autopadding. I think the BW is very quick to pad and you can do it individually for each show.
Philip

I totally agree. If auto-padding is added eventually, I won't be using it. I'll still set-up each program based on the channel and what's on before and after what I want to record.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 13:27

The Video Program System encodes the nominal start time of the current program into the blanking interval lines, along with the TeleText data, for the whole time that the program is being transmitted. It even has a "program break" bit that is intended to mark advertisements and such. All you need to do is program the timer for the nominal start time for the program and everything else is automatic. I had a VCR in Switzerland ~20 years ago that did this.

It's definitely the right model.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 14:19

prl wrote:The Video Program System encodes the nominal start time of the current program into the blanking interval lines, along with the TeleText data, for the whole time that the program is being transmitted. It even has a "program break" bit that is intended to mark advertisements and such. All you need to do is program the timer for the nominal start time for the program and everything else is automatic. I had a VCR in Switzerland ~20 years ago that did this.

It's definitely the right model.

You'll be 6 feet under before Australia implements something like this.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 14:28

Hi Madmax,

madmax wrote:You'll be 6 feet under before Australia implements something like this.

Are you offering us a way to get this feature?

No offence intended Peter.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 14:39

IanSav wrote:Hi Madmax,
madmax wrote:You'll be 6 feet under before Australia implements something like this.
Are you offering us a way to get this feature? .

Over my dead body!

Vortical · Post by **Vortical** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 14:41

On my other pvr I start 2 minutes early and extend 20 minutes past the program.
This catches 95% and the odd occasion I need to extend the timer.

Auto-padding would certainly make things a lot easier with IceTV.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 14:43

All I was saying is that it's the right model. IIRC it had to be legislated for adoption on commercial channels in Europe, where anyway (at least back then) regulation of the electronic media was a good deal stronger than here. I don't know if the "program break" bit was ever used anywhere to flag ads.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 16:21

I know this is obviously an issue that causes a great divide but on my Topfield using TEDS the autopadding worked really well.

For those unfamiliar with TEDS, it increased the amount of padding as shows get longer and had an override for late might TV.

The only time I had to manually intervene was for shows after reality shows where too much padding is never enough.

But as a model for auto padding I think it would make a great one for the BeyonWiz and you can always manual adjust on those occasions you need to.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 16:41

Hi Gully,

Thanks for the explanation. I never owned a Topfield so I have no idea how all the various TAPs work. If there are smart padding options like this then I may be more inclined to give them a go.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 17:23

IanSav wrote:Thanks for the explanation. I never owned a Topfield so I have no idea how all the various TAPs work. If there are smart padding options like this then I may be more inclined to give them a go.

Even with the fixed end-of-timer padding on the TF7000 (no TAPs), I found 15 mins autopadding OK for most things, except shows following "reality" TV.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 17:34

Happy to help Ian.

In order to complete that picture, I should add that TEDS is not a TAP (though it uses one to do the work on the Toppy), it runs on your PC and transfers the EPG and timers to the Toppy.

From what I have read, I think IceTV Remote could be a fairly similar process and result. (I hope so at least as TEDS is one of those things that made the Toppy great)

Truncated descriptions (Bug / Feature / Works as Designed) ?

Truncated descriptions (Bug / Feature / Works as Designed) ?

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