Prioritising recordings?

[mike]

Hi all,

I am using Ice TV series record and I was wondering if there is a way to set the priority of different series that I am recording? At the moment I have Top Gear, So You Think You Can Dance and Good Game all set as series record. The problem is that Top Gear and So you think you can dance are on at the same time and Good game is straight after.

As it stands, Top Gear is recording with its full half hour of padding at the end, but Dance is stopping at its scheduled end time so that Good Game can record. Now, this would be fine, except that the other half is very unimpressed at missing the end of dance. Does anyone know if there is a way that I can make Dance a higher priority so that I miss the end of Top Gear instead (sad, I know)?

Thanks!

[diesel]

In situations like these I set timers manually kinds something like this

CH10 7:30-8:35
SBS 7:30-8:31
ABC 8:31-9:00

SBS is pretty good at finishing on time, so you'll only miss ~1min of Good Game

Only problem is tonight TopGear is a 90min episode

[mick_queensland]

Hi,

talking of padding and using series recording, I have several series set up to record and I have lots of padding to allow for the time over run that some channels do to annoy us. The problem or issue more correctly, is that when the second show follows on after the first one, that a good chunk of one of the shows will be under the title of the other recording.

I am surprised that the BW is not clever enough to figure out that the two shows are consecutive and therefore can be recorded as one timer.

Does anyone have any (sensible) suggestions?

If I remove padding then I am going to miss the end of shows and that cannot happen.

Cheers Mick

[Gully]

Mick

The only alternative is to create a single timer to cover both shows.

Also make sure your padding priority is set to None. (Sounds like it is already)

[download]

I am surprised that the BW is not clever enough to figure out that the two shows are consecutive and therefore can be recorded as one timer.

The BW has zero 'smarts' when it comes to setting timers. You set a timer as you want it set. The issue in this case is not with the BW but with ICETV. It should be realising two series shows are consecutive and combining the two in a timer and sending that request to your BW.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[prl]

Mick

The only alternative is to create a single timer to cover both shows.

Also make sure your padding priority is set to None. (Sounds like it is already)

Another alternative, provided at least one of the two shows is simulcast on both HD and SD, is to record one on the HD service and the other on SD.

There's more than one way to do it. - Larry Wall

[Gully]

Mick

The only alternative is to create a single timer to cover both shows.

Also make sure your padding priority is set to None. (Sounds like it is already)

Another alternative, provided at least one of the two shows is simulcast on both HD and SD, is to record one on the HD service and the other on SD.

There's more than one way to do it. - Larry Wall

And with that sentiment - you can also use the multiple SD repeats like the two ABC1's on 7 Digitals to give you more choices.

[Orf]

Isn't it time this subject be put to rest. It has been discussed over a very long period withy suggestions made on how to fix the problem.
Please beta testers ask BW to allow consecutive recordings behave the same as consecutive time recordings on different channels. i.e. each recording have padding and its own file.
Several of us have made suggestion as to the mechanics of doing this but let BW work out the answer.
To me, this feature should have a high priority and judging by the number of people who have voiced an opinion others think so as well.

[prl]

...
Please beta testers ask BW to allow consecutive recordings behave the same as consecutive time recordings on different channels. i.e. each recording have padding and its own file.
...

You're assuming that the beta testers haven't asked already. They have

The problem was raised without any specific solution being proposed in Nov 2007. This particular solution was suggested in Jan 2008 and Sep 2008. It was suggested again and discussed in Oct 2008. Just because the beta testers suggest something to Beyonwiz in the beta forum (or anywhere else) doesn't mean that it will (or can) be implemented.

I'm not sure why it's never made it to the wish list, though. It's requested often enough.

[madmax]

I'm not sure why it's never made it to the wish list, though. It's requested often enough.

I guess it will have to go in section 18. Speaking of which, wish 18(g) picture centreing controls - can a sending unit such as the Wiz have any control over this? I thought only the display device could?

[prl]

I'm not sure why it's never made it to the wish list, though. It's requested often enough.

I guess it will have to go in section 18. ...

Or section 1?

[madmax]

Or section 1?

Hmmm, it doesn't really go.

The big question of course is, can the Wiz write 4 HD files simultaneously? If not, the whole idea goes down the drain.......

[prl]

...
The big question of course is, can the Wiz write 4 HD files simultaneously? If not, the whole idea goes down the drain.......

There's nothing inherent in the suggestion that says that the Beyonwiz must allow two simultaneous recordings from each of two services. The "no more than two simultaneous recordings" restriction should still apply. Unless the Beyonwiz can support more than two simultaneous recordings. I somehow doubt that it can, and to do it might require a fair bit of work.

[download]

Unless the Beyonwiz can support more than two simultaneous recordings. I somehow doubt that it can, and to do it might require a fair bit of work.

There's a crack for the Toppy SDs (so not much code change involved) that allows an entire mux to be recorded at once - so I suspect capability is not the issue, IMO its likely more that adding a 3rd item into the mix (and muxes etc.) would just confuse most people.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[prl]

Unless the Beyonwiz can support more than two simultaneous recordings. I somehow doubt that it can, and to do it might require a fair bit of work.

There's a crack for the Toppy SDs (so not much code change involved) that allows an entire mux to be recorded at once - so I suspect capability is not the issue, IMO its likely more that adding a 3rd item into the mix (and muxes etc.) would just confuse most people.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Just a note: I wrote what's in the quote block, not madmax.

[Orf]

Or section 1?

The big question of course is, can the Wiz write 4 HD files simultaneously? If not, the whole idea goes down the drain.......

I was unaware that the suggestion had been put to BW.
There is no need to write more than two HD files simultaneously if the method I described at http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewt ... 3029#43029 as quoted below is used:

I know that the subject I am about to resurrect has been discussed before but I get so frustrated with my BW because I often record two consecutive programs on the one station.
As designed, they crop the end of the first file or the beginning of the second file (depending on settings) however, it may be several days before I can watch or edit these files. By that time I may have several more twin files and the whole thing becomes confusing trying to sort out what- is-what when trying to watch a complete show.
Seeing that editing is being discussed and probably changes asked for, please could something be done about recording consecutive programs so that each program that is displayed in the recorded list will play as a complete recording of that program?
My suggestion to achieve this is:
1. Record consecutive programs in the one file and use markers to show the start and end of each program (including padding). This action would only require using one tuner.
2. Show the file as two separate programs using the markers to delineate each program.
3. When one of the programs is deleted just remove the entry from the list of programs and not the file.
4. When the other program is deleted, delete the file.
5. If necessary, disallow editing of the file if it will cause problems in keeping the integrity of the file.

[prl]

I understand your frustration about this, and it's shared by many people on the forum.

There really isn't any viable way to automatically mark when one program finishes in a recording containing multiple programs. If there was, we wouldn't need padding, and we wouldn't need to worry about padding overlaps for consecutive programs on the same service. The Beyonwiz could, if such marking were possible, simply record each complete program you wanted, no matter how off-schedule it was.

The technology to allow this to be done existed for analog TV, and I used a Phillips VCR in Switzerland in the 80s that had exactly that capability, and the data needed to make it work was broadcast in the TV signal (Video Programme System, VPS). It worked just fine. Similar systems exist for digital TV.

Allowing the same service to be recorded into two recordings is a workaround that would give the same function that already exists when the recordings are on different services. But that itself is a workaround for the problem that networks, often apparently deliberately, frequently show their programs at times other than what their schedules say.

[mick_queensland]

My suggestion to achieve this is:
1. Record consecutive programs in the one file and use markers to show the start and end of each program (including padding). This action would only require using one tuner.
2. Show the file as two separate programs using the markers to delineate each program.
3. When one of the programs is deleted just remove the entry from the list of programs and not the file.
4. When the other program is deleted, delete the file.
5. If necessary, disallow editing of the file if it will cause problems in keeping the integrity of the file.

Wow, is there a record for the quickest number of replies to a post? This seems to be a hot topic and it is surprising that it hasnt been on a wishlist.

Orf suggests recording as one file using markers for each show. I would be happy if it could be all in one file and not bother with markers and all the complicated stuff. If it could be named with both shows names that would be perfect for me. I can always edit it anyway I want it later. Currently I end up with a show in two pieces which is extremely annoying.

Someone else suggested it is not a BW issue but an ICETV issue. I think that may be partly true. However, if you bring up the GUIDE and then select two consecutive shows and a third show on another channel at the same time for recording you have the same problem and that has nothing to do with ICETV.
Still, I am going to write to ICETV and see if they can include an option to record consecutive shows as one file. I will post the answer here.

I think I touched a nerve...... My main request was to find out if there is a way to do it, the answer is now patently clear, No, there isnt.

Will get back as soon as ICETV answers me.

Cheers Mick

[download]

Someone else suggested it is not a BW issue but an ICETV issue. I think that may be partly true. However, if you bring up the GUIDE and then select two consecutive shows and a third show on another channel at the same time for recording you have the same problem and that has nothing to do with ICETV.

Well no, you have set two seperate timers so that's what the BW does. If you set two seperate timers via BW that's what BW does. If you want to record something as one timer set one timer to record two consecutive shows.

The BW will never combine two consecutive timers on the same channel as it can do this if you chose to do it yourself, if you don't (as many don't) then it won't.

All you are asking is if a third party can alter its interface to provide this capacity. ICETV are pretty responsive to requests so good luck.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[madmax]

I thought the original idea was better i.e. have full autopadding on two consecutive timers on the same channel. Then you wouldn't need to combine the timers into one.

[tonymy01]

But then you couldn't have an overlapping timer on another channel with those (if the bandwidth is too much for the bus to cope with). I think the "putting markers etc" into the files to be too complex, prone to error, and not really all that workable without a complete change of the PVR behaviour. Joining the two adjacent timers however is workable.
I just simply watch the file I want to watch, and if at the end of it it has the beginning of the next recording, use the edit function to keep that bit, pretty simple to do (although with a family in the house watching and deleting stuff, maybe not!). And then with the sort order reversed (newest last), the full show plays without intervention (albeit with a few second gap between the 2 files).
Regards

[Orf]

There really isn't any viable way to automatically mark when one program finishes in a recording containing multiple programs.

I am referring to putting the markers at the times the recording starts and stops not the programs. Other markers would be placed at the begining and end of padding.
In a single program recording would look like this:
a1--a2-----------------a3-------a4
Where a1 to a2 is pre padding and a3 to a4 is post padding and the points a2 and a3 are the start and end times as imput for the recording.
Superimposing a consecutive recording would result in this:
a1--a2-------------------b1---a3/b2--a4-------------b3------b4
assuming that the post padding is considerably larger that pre padding. NOTE: the points a3 and b2 are the same point.
To view the first program the bw would select a1 to a4.
To view the second program the bw would select b1 to b4.
If the first program is deleted the marker a1 would be removed. If the second program is deleted the marker b1 would be removed. When a1 and b1 are both absent the file would be deleted.
From an operator point of view each consecutive file would appear and behave exactly as a single file appears and behaves.

[Bruiser333]

This issue has already been raised on the Ice Forum, most likely several times:
eg http://www.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php?topic=1413.0

All you are asking is if a third party can alter its interface to provide this capacity. ICETV are pretty responsive to requests so good luck.

In addition to good luck, I feel you'll also need a liberal dose of patience. Requests for various enhancements to the Ice interface have been made long ago, with no action at all to date. An example is timer prioritisation, which IMO is a necessity for a timer setting app such as Interactive. Another is the continued requests for an HD vs SD preference when setting Series recordings, but still we only have the original options of 'All Channels', or 'This Channel Only'.

Then there is the long standing request for access to the Ice Remote API, which was sort of promised by Ice, but as yet not delivered. I have a feeling that the only way we will see some of these enhancements is if the API is released, and some programmers step in with some 3rd party apps such as TEDS for the Toppy 5k.
http://www.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index.php?topic=859.0

[DaveR]

Then there is the long standing request for access to the Ice Remote API, which was sort of promised by Ice, but as yet not delivered.

[mick_queensland]

[quote=]Well no, you have set two seperate timers so that's what the BW does. If you set two seperate timers via BW that's what BW does. If you want to record something as one timer set one timer to record two consecutive shows.

The BW will never combine two consecutive timers on the same channel as it can do this if you chose to do it yourself, if you don't (as many don't) then it won't.
[/quote]

Yes, true Peter, but I would like the option of either using a simple selection in the BW to combine the consecutive timers in the BW AND having the option in ICETV to do the same thing. I know I can do it if I program it manually, but the whole point of ICE is to do things automatically. I am not home for many weeks at a time, I dont have the luxury of being there to do manual recordings.

The reason I am interested in the BW option is for when I am home and I bring up GUIDE and click rec for something on the 8:30 timeslot and then the 9:30 timeslot for example, and I would like to combine them. I think that could be a wish list item?

Help Ticket raised with Ice, waiting to see what they say.

Cheers Mick

[download]

The reason I am interested in the BW option is for when I am home and I bring up GUIDE and click rec for something on the 8:30 timeslot and then the 9:30 timeslot for example, and I would like to combine them. I think that could be a wish list item?

Definitely, failing that ICE could provide a simple manual timer entry option (after all they just send a bunch of parameters from the website to the BW) so you could simply enter in NAME, START, END, DATE, CHANNEL and have it relayed to your BW. Not sure if there might not be some other way to do just this (via phone?). So you could decide to enter:

Lost & XFiles, 9:25, 11:45, 10

Problem solved. However it seems that ICE might be a bit stretched at the moment supplying their core product (ie the guide itself) as the copyright court case is yet to be decided. The BW is only one of dozens of machines they try to support.

Peter Gillespie

[prl]

...
Problem solved. However it seems that ICE might be a bit stretched at the moment supplying their core product (ie the guide itself) as the copyright court case is yet to be decided. The BW is only one of dozens of machines they try to support.
...

It's true that the BW is only one of their supported devices, but I don't think that this is an uncommon problem. I know that it also applies to the Topfield HD recorders.

[Bruiser333]

Definitely, failing that ICE could provide a simple manual timer entry option (after all they just send a bunch of parameters from the website to the BW) so you could simply enter in NAME, START, END, DATE, CHANNEL and have it relayed to your BW.

They could do this very easily, simply by releasing their Remote / Interactive API which they have said they would do, on several occasions.

The BW is only one of dozens of machines they try to support.
Peter Gillespie

It's difficult to see how it wouldn't apply equally to all machines. The question is, would you prefer 2 distinct consecutive recordings, where it is likely one recording will have a bit of the episode that the other recording was set for, or would you prefer to have one 'joined' recording, where you can choose your split point?

The answer will depend on the users preference. The problem for users that prefer the joined timer approach is that they don't have the choice.

[Orf]

Definitely, failing that ICE could provide a simple manual timer entry option (after all they just send a bunch of parameters from the website to the BW) so you could simply enter in NAME, START, END, DATE, CHANNEL and have it relayed to your BW.

The only problem with your solution is the bw would use both tuners to record consecutive shows whereas my idea would only use one.

[download]

The only problem with your solution is the bw would use both tuners to record consecutive shows whereas my idea would only use one.

I think you misunderstood. I was just suggesting ICE provide an option to manually enter in all the timer parameters (rather than selecting a show from the EPG). So you could set a timer to cover two shows in one recordng.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Gully]

The only problem with your solution is the bw would use both tuners to record consecutive shows whereas my idea would only use one.

I think you misunderstood. I was just suggesting ICE provide an option to manually enter in all the timer parameters (rather than selecting a show from the EPG). So you could set a timer to cover two shows in one recordng.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Sorry, Peter, I don't like that idea and I don't think it is appropriate given IceTV is primarily focused on timers created based on your list of shows.

Much better to get them to combine the timers just as TED/TEDS does for the Toppy with a user option to combine timers or not.

[download]

Sorry, Peter, I don't like that idea and I don't think it is appropriate given IceTV is primarily focused on timers created based on your list of shows.

This would simply be an optional little button at the bottom of the page. Just a way to manually type some parameters if it was needed for some reason. ICE could still offer any other features related to the EPG itself directly. I only suggest it because it would likely only take 45 minutes to implement for them.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[mick_queensland]

Hi All,

I said before that I would post the answer to my request here for all to read.
This is the request I sent to IceTV: Is there a way to have the IceTV program make the two shows record as a single file? If not can I suggest that Ice makes a selectable option to record consecutive timers on the same channel as a single file.

Here is the IceTV reply.

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the feedback, and while we have been asked this in the past adding an option to be able to merge timers is low on the list of updates we are looking at. This is not to say that it won't happen in the future but at this stage this is not a feature we are looking at actively adding.

Regards,

Daniel Hall
IceTV Support Team

Cheers Mick

[raj]

G'day,

Unfortunately I have had to abandon using IceTV to set timer events to record series because of overlapping series.

There does not seem to be any way of having priorities set.

When setting the recording for a series, it only checks the main program title and not the episode number or title. You can set 1,2,3,4,5 recordings per day, or all. Now some programs show an episode late at night on one day, but then it is repeated in the early hours of the morning the next day (along with some new episodes). With this you end up with repeated episodes as the episode title is not checked.

If your favourites end up seeing more than 2 series showing at the same time, you get no warning on the BW, and no alert other than the yellow triangle. You don't get anything telling you what has caused the error, and the Widget is extremely difficult to view. At least with the Interactive option you can see all the channels 6 hours at a time. With the widget you pick an hour and then you get a variable number of programs depending on how many events there are.

It really needs an error digest and then some way of setting priorities. I have tried the rescheduling option, but this then throws something else out. I tried manually deleting duplicate timer recording entries, but they ended up being set automatically once again and this caused problems.

Hopefully this will get addressed, as at the moment it is not that usable.

About the only way around this is to never use series recording and use the Interactive function to alert you about programs, but you set them to record manually.

[tonymy01]

It works for 95% of my shows, and the other 5% *are* caught by the PerlTGD priority system for my Topfield 5K (of course not in HD, not that there is much HD left on TV these days with 7 showing the good stuff on 7TWO now, Ten not having HD at all, ABC soon to ditch HD and never really broadcast any real HD sourced material anyway, SBS same).
I guess you must record a few more things than me. The only time I have had the extra stuff come up is with Black Adder recently, the same issue PRL details over on the ICE forums (where Go! repeats stuff like crazy in all sorts of timeslots, a bit like payTV. Luckily the repeats were in the early hours of the morning so the chances of clashes were nill).

I am a bit worried come Jan31 though, ratings season commences again and I have seen a heap of "coming Jan31" adverts for my shows....

[prl]

Hi, raj. These are really all IceTV issues and you'd be better off posting about them on the IceTV forum. The same problems exist, as far as I know, on all PVRs using IceTV Interactive.

I've already posted about the lack of flexibility in recording programs that are repeated more than once in a week (especially if the series itself is a repeat), and about the fact that the 1/2/... times a day is really not very useful, since it always means "the first N times a da"..

You could also take the opportunity to make suggestions through the IceTV customer survey. It has a couple of places where they ask for suggestions about improvements. You can get $30 off your next annual subscription for your troubles

[raj]

You could also take the opportunity to make suggestions through the IceTV customer survey. It has a couple of places where they ask for suggestions about improvements. You can get $30 off your next annual subscription for your troubles

Thanks for that. I have completed the survey and added some suggestions