IceRemote - Any News

np · Post by np » Mon Dec 24, 2007 21:23

Hi Guys,

Now that the new firmware is out, does this really mean that IceRemote will be in the next version ? If so, how long

Cheers
Nick

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 00:47

No idea on both counts, though it feels like it should be soon.

Not surprisingly though, the team in Korea are taking a well earned rest before working on the next release.

ccspack · Post by **ccspack** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 14:43

Maybe the Beta testers will be the first to know.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 06:53

I renewed my Ice because they (Ice) said Remote was very close to being implimented (or led me to believe that in their wording).
I think it is almost false advertising if they do not get it implimented very soon.

Philip

Jammer · Post by **Jammer** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:16

The Ice Remote issue is becoming a bit of a PITA. Sometime ago I helped my brother buy a Topfield 5000 and set it up for him with numerous TAPs including UK Auto Scheduler. Several months ago I helped him dispose of his Topfield and replace it with a BW. I warned him that the BW equivalent of TAPs didn't yet exist and that he'd need to be patient with things like search-term automatic timer setting etc. However, he's now starting to get a bit fed up with my "Just be patient" responses to his inquiries regarding Ice Remote, and even a little regretful that he swapped a Topfield for the BW, and I can't say that I blame him.

I really hope that Ice Remote is implemented soon.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 14:03

The IceTV announcement about IceTV on the Beyonwiz (16 May 2007) says no more than:

We intend to work with Beyonwiz on making the DP-S1 the first PVR in Australia to be able to use IceTV?s Remote Record feature in a future software update from Beyonwiz.

More recently (9 Dec) there was a query on the IceTV forum about when IceTV Remote would be available on the BW, and Daniel Hall from IceTV replied on Dec 19, saying:

... the ball is firmly in Beyonwiz's court on this one.

pjc3, was the wording from IceTV about this somewhere other than in the 16 May announcement?

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 14:37

prl wrote:pjc3, was the wording from IceTV about this somewhere other than in the 16 May announcement?

When they made the offer of 25% off about 1-2 months ago, they were talking about IceTV Remote coming soon. I don't have the e-mail so not sure of the exact wording or timing.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:16

Niels Bohr wrote:Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future.

Ah, the problems with making predictions about things you have little control over

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:50

Gully wrote:
prl wrote:pjc3, was the wording from IceTV about this somewhere other than in the 16 May announcement?
When they made the offer of 25% off about 1-2 months ago, they were talking about IceTV Remote coming soon. I don't have the e-mail so not sure of the exact wording or timing.

Exactly Gully.

Thanks

Philip

edit - found it
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1058

mcretan · Post by **mcretan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 13:10

prl wrote:More recently (9 Dec) there was a query on the IceTV forum about when IceTV Remote would be available on the BW, and Daniel Hall from IceTV replied on Dec 19, saying:
... the ball is firmly in Beyonwiz's court on this one.

Yeah, that was me just before I bought my new P1...

Whilst I'm loving the file player and the USB in the P1, I sooooo miss my toppy/TEDS combo.

If I knew that remote was going to be delayed for too much longer, I'd buy one of the remaing 5000's before they all go.

Even with remote though, I'm going to miss keyword favourites (e.g. sci-fi)

Mike

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 13:14

mcretan wrote:Even with remote though, I'm going to miss keyword favourites (e.g. sci-fi)

Don't worry. Once IceTV release their remote API and Beyonwiz open things up a bit the TEDS like applications will popup out of nowhere.

mcretan · Post by **mcretan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 13:41

Dave? wrote:Once IceTV release their remote API and Beyonwiz open things up a bit the TEDS like applications will popup out of nowhere.

They're releasing an API???

Cool, I might even write one of those apps myself...

M

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 14:03

mcretan wrote:They're releasing an API???

Yep. http://www.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index. ... 13#msg3813

Currently our Remote Protocol is only available for use by selected partners under an NDA.

We are however currently working on an alternative that will suit your needs, we do not have a firm release date at this point but it should be within the next 3-4 weeks.

Our "Remote API" will be available in XML or JSON and should provide everything you need to support remote programing including series recordings and favourites.

We are really excited about this new API and look forward to seeing what the developer community can do with it.

We are currently developing an all new widget that will be available on the Dashboard for OS X, Konfabulator and hopefully as a Vista Gadget. The new widget will be built on top of the Remote API, so we will be eating our own dogfood on this one

I'm sorry I can't give you any more details but the API is still under heavy development and the technical details may change before we release it.

Please be patient for just a little longer, I guarantee it will be worth the wait...

Cheers
Dan - IceTV Software Manager

mcretan · Post by **mcretan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 16:03

Hmmm....

It's all very promising but I just bought myself a new PVRT5000 anyway. Such is the power of TEDS - It's clunky, and a pain to get to work properly, but boy, isn't it sweet when it works

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 18:07

pjc3 wrote:
Gully wrote:
prl wrote:pjc3, was the wording from IceTV about this somewhere other than in the 16 May announcement?
When they made the offer of 25% off about 1-2 months ago, they were talking about IceTV Remote coming soon. I don't have the e-mail so not sure of the exact wording or timing.
Exactly Gully.

Thanks

Philip

edit - found it
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1058

In IceTV Remote for Beyonwiz - When? I've asked what "soon" means in the context of "...IceTV Remote available soon..." from the post from danielicetv cited by pjc3

GarFin · Post by **GarFin** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 09:06

Dave? wrote:
mcretan wrote:They're releasing an API???
Yep. http://www.icetv.com.au/iceforum/index. ... 13#msg3813

Please be patient for just a little longer, I guarantee it will be worth the wait...

Cheers
Dan - IceTV Software Manager

How much longer, is "just a little longer" ? Kinda think IceTV should 'stop the clock' on everyone's subscriptions, until this is released/resolved.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:35

A recent post in the IceTV forum suggests it is ready and in final testing.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 19:15

Gully wrote:A recent post in the IceTV forum suggests it is ready and in final testing.

A link perhaps Gully? Thanks
Philip

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 20:02

pjc3 wrote:
Gully wrote:A recent post in the IceTV forum suggests it is ready and in final testing.
A link perhaps Gully? Thanks
Philip

Same link as above, just updated.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 05:34

Hi Dan and BW team,

I would like to see a little bit of commitment to a timeframe for Remote. I am getting more frustrated with the limited usefulness of the EPG format on the BW and remote will sort this out. I have paid a year's subscription to Ice despite a free EPG but get no benefit from it. I will be more supportive of your "partnership" if you start giving consumers like me a little more information than "coming soon". I am sure I am not the only one who would like a bit more of a firm commitment to WHEN this is going to happen.

Philip

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:43

pjc3 wrote:I am sure I am not the only one who would like a bit more of a firm commitment to WHEN this is going to happen.

I know it's not going to be in the next firmware release, but may be in the one after that. I suspect open source options will also be available by then. Have you seen efry's WizRemote topic?

alwayslooking · Post by **alwayslooking** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:23

Dave? wrote:I know it's not going to be in the next firmware release, but may be in the one after that. I suspect open source options will also be available by then. Have you seen efry's WizRemote topic?

Thanks for that update Dave, it sounds promising.

Vortical · Post by **Vortical** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:26

I guess that means maybe around June/July then.

np · Post by np » Sun Feb 03, 2008 19:04

Im with PJ3 on this one. I have also purchased the 12 month EPG to have limited use. There was a press release from Ice confirming that it would be in the next firmware release (the one after the late december one), but now Dave tells us its not.

Can someone give us the real story on whats going on ?

Nick

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 19:23

Dave? wrote:
pjc3 wrote:I am sure I am not the only one who would like a bit more of a firm commitment to WHEN this is going to happen.
I know it's not going to be in the next firmware release, but may be in the one after that. I suspect open source options will also be available by then. Have you seen efry's WizRemote topic?

I have seen the topic Dave but this is not my point. I bought the subscription at the time Ice were saying Remote "will be here soon". At this rate the most of the year will have gone and no Remote.

I look forward to when the BAPs are up and running so I can use tailored user-friendly applications and not pay a premium for an EPG which is not much better than the FTA ( I would glady contribute to a fund if it went to buying the clever BAP coders a beer or two aswell

)

Philip

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 20:35

Hi,

I wonder if there is an idle cloning machine handy. 3 or 4 Stevens should make a dent in the backlogs.

Regards,
Ian.

bohemian · Post by **bohemian** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 23:24

IanSav wrote:Hi,

I wonder if there is an idle cloning machine handy. 3 or 4 Stevens should make a dent in the backlogs.

Regards,
Ian.

I remember peteru offered to help with the Beyonwiz development quite a while ago, if we could just convince the bwiz people to let him.

And efry has cut loose with his WizRemote

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 00:09

Hi Bohemian,

bohemian wrote:I remember peteru offered to help with the Beyonwiz development quite a while ago, if we could just convince the bwiz people to let him.

And efry has cut loose with his WizRemote

Sorry, but I doubt this will ever happen. The contracts and non-disclosure terms of the Sigma Designs toolkit will probably prohibit anyone outside of Beyonwiz ever having access to enough code to actually do any good.

Cloning Steven is the only way!

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 08:59

np wrote:Im with PJ3 on this one. I have also purchased the 12 month EPG to have limited use. There was a press release from Ice confirming that it would be in the next firmware release (the one after the late december one), but now Dave tells us its not.

Can someone give us the real story on whats going on ?

Nick

I don't think there was a press release from IceTV that said that. I can't find any notices in the IceTV News & Blog about when IceTV Remote might be available. I couldn't find anything that Daniel Hall from IceTV (danielicetv) posted in this forum about it, either.

Daniel did post this on the subject in the IceTV forum, though it isn't quite as definite as you remembered:

Daniel Hall on IceTV Forum Dec 19 2007 wrote:We do know it will not be in the next firmware that is due in the next couple of weeks, but we are hoping for the one after that.

He also said:

Daniel Hall, ibid wrote:Sorry about the delay, but the ball is firmly in Beyonwiz's court on this one.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 09:55

IanSav wrote:
bohemian wrote:I remember peteru offered to help with the Beyonwiz development quite a while ago, if we could just convince the bwiz people to let him.

Indeed, I did make several offers, going back about one year. Given that I have designed the IceTV Remote protocol and have developed PVRs in the past, I would have been in a position to actually deliver this. There was no interest from Beyonwiz, not even to the point of discussing whether I was proposing to do the work on a paid or unpaid basis.

I also made offers to IceTV to do some more paid development work for them, but in the end that did not happen. I can only assume that IceTV are strapped for cash and that their resources are spread very thinly, but in reality I do not know the full story. I would speculate that even though IceTV may beat Nine in the court house, the commercial networks have won the battle by making EPG available over the air. If you think about it, why would the PVR manufacturers or sales people in the shops bother with IceTV now? The EPG "just works" on almost every PVR and STB, so there's no "value add" in supporting IceTV on PVRs. The ability to control your PVR remotely could have been enough to keep IceTV relevant, but they missed that boat.

The story is different with PC and Mac users, where getting an EPG is still a challenge. This situation will be fixed very quickly by the various software developers. If you have a look at what IceTV have announced and launched recently, computer users are exactly the audience that IceTV seem to be targeting now. Let's hope for IceTV's sake that they have decided to back the right set of customers and more importantly that they have developed enough new and compelling technology to stay in business. I am not sure how much money and effort was expended on "I Watch This", but I see it as a big flop. Let's face it, any website that claims that more people watch "Nigella Feasts" than "The Biggest Loser" or "Lost" is clearly not in touch with reality. I don't see how a "TV blog" can keep a subscription service company like IceTV in business.

I could write a lot more about this topic, but there's really not much point.

Sorry, but I doubt this will ever happen. The contracts and non-disclosure terms of the Sigma Designs toolkit will probably prohibit anyone outside of Beyonwiz ever having access to enough code to actually do any good.

Actually, that's not the case at all. I would not require access to any of that stuff. The entire solution could be developed on a bog standard Linux system and delivered as source code. Even developing for the Beyonwiz target platform would not be that complicated. The base platform, cross compiler and indeed the entire development system is GPL licensed and Beyonwiz should (and must according to the license terms) make it available to anyone. The number of non-GPL APIs that would need to be exposed by Beyonwiz is tiny and could be done under an NDA.

The problem is cultural, rather than technical. Beyonwiz want to retain total control over all aspects of the PVR. That's their choice - let's hope it does not bite them.

Cloning Steven is the only way!

It seems that this is the easiest remaining option - I hope that it's painless and quick.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:32

Hi Peter,

peteru wrote:Actually, that's not the case at all. I would not require access to any of that stuff. The entire solution could be developed on a bog standard Linux system and delivered as source code. Even developing for the Beyonwiz target platform would not be that complicated. The base platform, cross compiler and indeed the entire development system is GPL licensed and Beyonwiz should (and must according to the license terms) make it available to anyone. The number of non-GPL APIs that would need to be exposed by Beyonwiz is tiny and could be done under an NDA.

The problem is cultural, rather than technical. Beyonwiz want to retain total control over all aspects of the PVR. That's their choice - let's hope it does not bite them.

I will defer to your more experienced opinion but I am quite surprised that you would need so little access to toolkit information when developing code.

As for licensing and/or NDA requirements, again you have probably dealt with this issue already but I got the impression that this was a large stumbling block for toolkit distribution.

With regard to source code control I agree with you. I suspect that Beyonwiz is very worried about outsiders getting a look at "their crown jewels", the code at the core of their system. I belive there may be two aspects to this, one that the Beyonwiz code is the base of their intellectual property, and two, the code may not yet be refined and presented in a format that Beyonwiz would be happy/proud to show off. Hopefully they will find a way to accept help from those interested and keen to offer their help.

Regards,
Ian.

GarFin · Post by **GarFin** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 14:49

pjc3 wrote:Hi Dan and BW team,

I would like to see a little bit of commitment to a timeframe for Remote. I am getting more frustrated with the limited usefulness of the EPG format on the BW and remote will sort this out. I have paid a year's subscription to Ice despite a free EPG but get no benefit from it. I will be more supportive of your "partnership" if you start giving consumers like me a little more information than "coming soon". I am sure I am not the only one who would like a bit more of a firm commitment to WHEN this is going to happen.

Philip

+1

Seanslife · Post by **Seanslife** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 22:53

So, any news on yet on when 'Remote' may hit the streets? I'm paying for IceGuide but not getting the functions I was on my MCE machine.

Sean

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 06:24

Very quiet indeed isn't it? I think it has gone to the "false advertising" realm in my opinion.

Philip

danielicetv · Post by **danielicetv** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:15

As we have said multiple times, we are ready on the server end (and have other systems using IceTV Remote) and Beyonwiz has all the information they need to finish the implementation, we are just waiting on the work to be completed by them. Beyonwiz unfortunately have not been able to give a firm time frame as yet, just that they are working on it.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:50

danielicetv wrote:As we have said multiple times, we are ready on the server end (and have other systems using IceTV Remote) and Beyonwiz has all the information they need to finish the implementation, we are just waiting on the work to be completed by them. Beyonwiz unfortunately have not been able to give a firm time frame as yet, just that they are working on it.

Quoting you Daniel

And with IceTV Remote available soon, the experience will only get better

I renewed my subscription on this basis
This was on the 12 November, over 3 months ago.

I think "soon" has been taken to it's limit. Perhaps an extension of my subscription until remote is up and running?

Philip

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 20:43

To be fair, IceTV (and Daniel) have always said that it's ready at their end and it is up to beyonwiz to get it working on the BWs.

Beyonwiz recently informed the beta testers that ice remote had been replaced by something else... and then moments later informed us that that was old news and no longer correct - i.e. ice remote was back on the todo list again. Apparently Ice Remote 'as it is' will be too resource hungry (and apparently even the IceGuide had to be coded from scratch by beyonwiz because IceTV's implementation was unworkable). This prompted a discussion where the beta testers helped beyonwiz to realise just important it is to be able to remotely and/or programmatically set timers and retrieve the list of timers. This coincided with Eric's timely release of his WizRemote.

I suspect we'll see ice remote and an open API within 2 firmware updates. An open API would be much better because programmers could use Ice Remote, or just Ice Data (ala TEDS, ToppyWeb etc) to automatically set timers.

If we don't get an open API by then I believe Eric and others will have cracked the frimware enough to develop 'our' own neat method of retrieving and setting timers.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 05:31

Thanks Dave for some info. Two firmwares away seems a very long time.

Dave? wrote:To be fair, IceTV (and Daniel) have always said that it's ready at their end and it is up to beyonwiz to get it working on the BWs.

Although I can see their point it doesn't change the fact that Ice came onto the BW forum to advertise that remote will be here soon and why don't you renew your subscription for a year. As all BW users know, the interface with Ice is not very user friendly and I certainly would not have paid for further use of their data for another year unless there was something value adding ie IceRemote.

Philip

Bruiser333 · Post by **Bruiser333** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 08:40

FWIW, I'd pay for Ice on the basis of their guide alone; I also don't think it is fair to blame them for the lack of ability to remotely program times on the Wiz. Other tools (including 3rd party apps eg TEDS) have had this ability for a long time.

Dave? wrote:Apparently Ice Remote 'as it is' will be too resource hungry

How is this so? Doesn't the workload for setting up favourites, series etc reside on the Ice servers? I would have thought on the Wiz side all(!) that was required was a mechanism to retrieve the pre-determined timers from Ice and apply on the Wiz (which will need to cater for timer clashes, perhaps deleting timers when changes have occurred, etc).

Dave? wrote:This prompted a discussion where the beta testers helped beyonwiz to realise just important it is to be able to remotely and/or programmatically set timers and retrieve the list of timers.

I find it concerning they needed help to realise this in the first place! TIVO is just around the corner, and surely the Wiz will need to compete at this level? (ie programmatically set timers, etc). Also, with the links with Topfield, I would have thought they would have realised how popular the TEDS (& other similar) functionality that was enabled through EPGUploader was?

Having said that, I'm new to the Wiz so I'm still able to patiently wait for this functionality, as I manually set timers from the list that TEDS spits out

Cheers,

Bruiser

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 20:09

For adding new features..
The Bookmark function has been implemented and the IceRemote are under implementing.
This firmware will be released in the early of March.

http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewt ... 0994#20994

Hope this is true.

Philip

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 20:31

pjc3 wrote:
For adding new features..
The Bookmark function has been implemented and the IceRemote are under implementing.
This firmware will be released in the early of March.
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewt ... 0994#20994

Hope this is true.

Philip

Why wouldn't it be?

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 20:37

Gully wrote:
pjc3 wrote:
For adding new features..
The Bookmark function has been implemented and the IceRemote are under implementing.
This firmware will be released in the early of March.
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewt ... 0994#20994

Hope this is true.

Philip
Why wouldn't it be?

Oh I think I could be a little sceptical regarding firmware release timing. "The early of March" in my mind is the first week so I am very happy to finally have IceTV Remote.

Philip

np · Post by np » Tue Feb 26, 2008 20:37

This is Great News ! Can't wait. Any hints from the beta testers ?

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 20:49

np wrote:This is Great News ! Can't wait. Any hints from the beta testers ?

No, because we haven't seen it yet.

jackie · Post by **jackie** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 16:55

Gully wrote:
np wrote:This is Great News ! Can't wait. Any hints from the beta testers ?
No, because we haven't seen it yet.

The IceTV Remote won't be integrated in March firmware...It will be possible on April firmware, sorry for this inconvenience.

pjc3 · Post by **pjc3** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 20:02

Gully wrote:
pjc3 wrote:
For adding new features..
The Bookmark function has been implemented and the IceRemote are under implementing.
This firmware will be released in the early of March.
http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewt ... 0994#20994

Hope this is true.

Philip
Why wouldn't it be?

Why it wouldn't be........

np · Post by np » Fri Mar 07, 2008 13:30

jackie wrote: The IceTV Remote won't be integrated in March firmware...It will be possible on April firmware, sorry for this inconvenience.

What happened ? Does this mean that we are getting a March firmware upgrade and then an April firmware upgrade of which will be IceRemote enabled ?

I paid for an IceTV subscription and was hoping that i didnt waste my money. As time goes on i am starting to question it.

I am happy with unit just extremely dissapointed that iceremote keeps getting re-prioritised...

Flash_Gordon · Post by **Flash_Gordon** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 23:04

np wrote:
jackie wrote: The IceTV Remote won't be integrated in March firmware...It will be possible on April firmware, sorry for this inconvenience.
What happened ? Does this mean that we are getting a March firmware upgrade and then an April firmware upgrade of which will be IceRemote enabled ?

Ummmmm - having just this evening set up the BW P1 Network and the ICEtv link....I have just now set up at the IceTv Remote page a couple of series to record (first runs only).

Are you telling me this won't work at this moment in time?

If that is the case I will have to add the timers manually....

Only had the BW a week...and its taken me this long to get the wireless network up and running.

By the way...is ABC HD not listed in ICEtv EPG - can't seem to see any future programs unlike the other channels???

Cheers

FG

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 23:18

Welcome

You are correct - no IceRemote at present so you will have to set them up manually.

I don't believe anyone has a listing for ABC HD, possibly due to the fact they have no different content.

IceRemote - Any News

IceRemote - Any News

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