Tuner Capability - Irregularities

[Barboots]

Hi all,

I have documented a problem I have noted previously. I'm recording 7HD. I'm recording 9GemHD. I can not watch 9HD. I can watch ABC News and SBS HD.

I am not in Timeshift and do not have external tuners, nor is Fallback currently set. Is this correct operation?

Pictures are in the reverse order of my statements... again... I'll try to remember the backwards logic of upload in my next post

Cheers, Steve

[MrQuade]

That's a slightly confusing sequence there.

In the first shot, you are watching and recordings 7HD using Tuner B.
30 seconds later, you are recording GEM HD, but your Live stream doesn't appear to be using a local tuner. It looks like you are streaming over the network from another Beyonwiz.
20 seconds later you are zapped to GO, and the same deal, it looks like you aren't using a local tuner for live viewing.
In the last, you have switched to ABC and are using Tuner A while GemHD continues to record on Tuner B.

Have you done anything strange with your bouquets?

Edit:
Actually looking back at your previous two threads, it sounds like you may have munted up your bouquets if you had issues with picons and LCN numbering issues.

Also, you asked about the use of fallback tuners in the thread before that. Did you end up setting up a fallback tuner? This could explain where you are getting the network stream from.

[Barboots]

You could easily be right about the bouquets. They are not intuitive to set up as default. I actually wiped the V2 to try to fix the problem I had previously, however it sounds like I have recreated mistakes in a different way. Oddly enough I'm at least finding the correct shows recorded now.

I thought I disabled Fallback because it was sort of useless if Timeshift wouldn't work... maybe I didn't turn it off.

This piece of equipment is making me feel very old. Sorry to raise dumb-arse questions.

Cheers, Steve

[MrQuade]

I thought I disabled Fallback because it was sort of useless if Timeshift wouldn't work... maybe I didn't turn it off.

Timeshift will work in fallback mode. That was my error earlier.

Timeshift won't work when you are streaming remote channels via the remoteiptvclient plugin. That's what I was thinking of.

You could easily be right about the bouquets. They are not intuitive to set up as default.

Where are you getting stuck with them?

All you need to do is go into your Terrestrial LCN bouquet, and select a channel you want as a favourite and them press MENU and select the option to copy it to your Favourites bouquet. Repeat for all the channels you want in Favourites.
Once you have populated your Favourites bouquet, you can switch to Favourites, zap to any of the channels, and then Favourites will be thereafter your default bouquet.

If you did anything other than this, then you may just want to run a fresh location scan to clean up the Terrestrial LCN bouquet.

[Barboots]

All you need to do is go into your Terrestrial LCN bouquet, and select a channel you want as a favourite and them press MENU and select the option to copy it to your Favourites bouquet. Repeat for all the channels you want in Favourites.
Once you have populated your Favourites bouquet, you can switch to Favourites, zap to any of the channels, and then Favourites will be thereafter your default bouquet.

I'll run through this verbatim tomorrow. My last problem was hiding the main LCN and Recently Scanned entries from when I selected EPG on the remote. I fuffed about for ages and don't really know what I did to produce the desired result, which was to have only Favourites showing... ever.

The picicons were OK after my last rescan and favourites selection, and incorrect program recording has also stopped. Actually I've almost been happy with the machine. Maybe it's just the Fallback causing the current problem, as I checked and it wasn't disabled... which brings about a question regarding how I happened to achieve recording over the network? Maybe don't answer as my brain might not handle the information load

Thanks again for all the time you put in here helping chumps like me out.

[MrQuade]

I'll run through this verbatim tomorrow. My last problem was hiding the main LCN and Recently Scanned entries from when I selected EPG on the remote. I fuffed about for ages and don't really know what I did to produce the desired result, which was to have only Favourites showing... ever.

Just words of warning. Don't delete the Terrestrial LCN or LAst Scanned bouquets, and resist the temptation to delete any services from them as well. It probably won't hurt anything, but it is something that can just confuse matters. (they get re-populated when you rescan anyway).

Also, I would advise against disabling the default "multiple bouquets" mode. Leave multiple bouquets enabled.
Use the technique I mentioned earlier to make Favourites the default.

You can read more about managing Favourites here if you haven't seen this already. This will break things down into more (accurate) steps than I have provided here.

The picicons were OK after my last rescan and favourites selection, and incorrect program recording has also stopped. Actually I've almost been happy with the machine. Maybe it's just the Fallback causing the current problem, as I checked and it wasn't disabled... which brings about a question regarding how I happened to achieve recording over the network? Maybe don't answer as my brain might not handle the information load

You weren't recording over the network, the recording was using Tuner B. In your screenshot, the recording showed as a red "B" on your Infobar.

I assume that you don't actually have a second Beyonwiz T, U or V series box on your network at the moment? If so, then the fallback receiver setting won't actually do much, as it won't have a second box to talk to.
Perhaps you have configured the fallback receiver to talk to your V2, causing a loopback? I'm not even sure how of if that would even work to be honest.
If you don't have a second Wiz box on the network, then disable that fallback tuner setting.

[Barboots]

I assume that you don't actually have a second Beyonwiz T, U or V series box on your network at the moment?

Yeah I do have two V2s networked MrQ. I had previously set up Fallback, but thought I turned it off as I was experiencing weirdness like the post topic.

I still can't work out the machine logic of being able to record from two networks, but not being able to watch another program on one of those networks... without the machine resorting to Fallback. It shouldn't be required.

I'll probably reset both the V2s... again... and try to set them up "correctly".

[MrQuade]

I assume that you don't actually have a second Beyonwiz T, U or V series box on your network at the moment?

Yeah I do have two V2s networked MrQ. I had previously set up Fallback, but thought I turned it off as I was experiencing weirdness like the post topic.

I still can't work out the machine logic of being able to record from two networks, but not being able to watch another program on one of those networks... without the machine resorting to Fallback. It shouldn't be required.

I'll probably reset both the V2s... again... and try to set them up "correctly".

I'm not sure exactly what was going on there myself. It didn't seem to want to use Tuner A to view channel 9.

It's possible that you had two recordings active. One on Channel 7HD and another was actually recording Channel 9 over the fallback receiver.

This might have been possible if your channel 9 mappings on the V2 are buggered.
I am guessing here, that the Wiz was recording Channel 7 and Channel 9 at once, Channel 7 on tuner B, and Channel 9 over the network.
It might have been possible to record over the network, since you were not exceeding the 2 tuner limit, but you didn't have a working channel 9 on that V2, so it went to the network.
Anyway.....very twisty, and I suspect this is all down to bad scan data.

It is ok to have the fallback tuner enabled, but you need to sort out the scan data first, or you will get weird stuff like this happening.

I suspect that right now, if you were to disable fallback, you would not be able to live view all of the channel 9 services.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I'm not sure exactly what was going on there myself. It didn't seem to want to use Tuner A to view channel 9.

I suspect that is because the Nine Network was already being tuned from the remote receiver.

It's possible that you had two recordings active. One on Channel 7HD and another was actually recording Channel 9 over the fallback receiver.

My thoughts too. You can record from a remote tuner, but you need "just the right conditions". I've done it.

I suspect that right now, if you were to disable fallback, you would not be able to live view all of the channel 9 services.

Possible, but the Nine Network frequency shown is correct. Although that in itself may not be enough.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

20 seconds later you are zapped to GO, and the same deal, it looks like you aren't using a local tuner for live viewing.

Taking another look at the screenshots, it appears the zap to 9Go! wasn't successful as the watermark visible in the background is from 9Gem.
Perhaps because it is recording from 9Gem via the remote tuner it can't/won't stop the current demuxer to display live TV from another service from the remote tuner?

[Barboots]

20 seconds later you are zapped to GO, and the same deal, it looks like you aren't using a local tuner for live viewing.

Taking another look at the screenshots, it appears the zap to 9Go! wasn't successful as the watermark visible in the background is from 9Gem.
Perhaps because it is recording from 9Gem via the remote tuner it can't/won't stop the current demuxer to display live TV from another service from the remote tuner?

Yes, I didn't know how to clarify your observation myself, as the terminology doesn't come easily to me... that's exactly what happened. The "zap" changed the OSD data to the desired broadcast, but the picture is just a remnant of what was being viewed prior to the "zap".

I'm going to have a look at this shortly, before any timers fire. I'll update then.

Thanks for your help.

[Barboots]

Just out of curiosity:

- is there a way to check whether I have a problem with the LCNs, rather than rescanning and re-doing my Favourites?

- in Perth, which of the duplicate broadcasts are best used? I have found that the lower ones seem to have a more reliable EPG, however I may be smoking my socks on that observation.

Cheers, Steve

[MrQuade]

- is there a way to check whether I have a problem with the LCNs, rather than rescanning and re-doing my Favourites?

- in Perth, which of the duplicate broadcasts are best used? I have found that the lower ones seem to have a more reliable EPG, however I may be smoking my socks on that observation.

Depends where you are. I am in the guts of the Northern suburbs and there are no alternates there.

The lower numbered ones are supposed to be the strongest signals, and the ones that are sorted at 350+ are all weaker alternate signals. This can sometimes get twisted about and the better signal gets sorted to 350+. I think that can happen if you get some sort of transient signal issue or interference during the scan.

Ideally you just need to select from the channels marked 1-99.

I'd really just recommend you re-scan and re-do your Favourites. It shouldn't take longer than about 15 minutes, and you'll be reasonably assured everything is fixed.

[Barboots]

OK... stand by for tannies and man-tears

[Barboots]

Location Scan produces:

[Barboots]

Favourites did not disappear or need repopulating:

[Barboots]

I did have Multiple Bouquets turned off.

I turned it on, went to the EPG, selected Favourites then zapped a broadcast. Now if I select EPG I have to select the Bouquet I want. This is not a popular arrangement with my partner, and I don't like it much either...

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I did have Multiple Bouquets turned off.

I turned it on, went to the EPG, selected Favourites then zapped a broadcast. Now if I select EPG I have to select the Bouquet I want. This is not a popular arrangement with my partner, and I don't like it much either...

Turn off 'Show bouquet on launch' in EPG>>MENU

[Barboots]

I did have Multiple Bouquets turned off.

I turned it on, went to the EPG, selected Favourites then zapped a broadcast. Now if I select EPG I have to select the Bouquet I want. This is not a popular arrangement with my partner, and I don't like it much either...

Turn off 'Show bouquet on launch' in EPG>>MENU

Aaaaaarghhhhh... so simple. I kill myself now thank you.

[Barboots]

Thanks MrQ and Geoff... I'll give that a run and see what happens. Don't know if to re-enable Fallback. Maybe I'll wait as it might be introducing complexity that makes any potential further diagnosis tricky.

Mega thanks again legends

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Aaaaaarghhhhh... so simple. I kill myself now thank you.

Check 'Always show bouquets' in the Channel selection menu (FAV>>MENU) is disabled too.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I'll give that a run and see what happens. Don't know if to re-enable Fallback. Maybe I'll wait as it might be introducing complexity that makes any potential further diagnosis tricky.

Time to test again. Ensure no other recordings are in play.
Set off an instant recording on 7HD - bring up the EPG, select the current event, press GREEN>>GREEN.
Set off one on 9GemHD, scroll to the current event and select it, then GREEN>>GREEN.
Now try zapping to 9HD - you should have success. Same with 9Go!
Zapping to ABC News and SBS HD should fail - unless you have the fallback receiver enabled.

[Barboots]

Time to test again. Ensure no other recordings are in play.
Set off an instant recording on 7HD - bring up the EPG, select the current event, press GREEN>>GREEN.
Set off one on 9GemHD, scroll to the current event and select it, then GREEN>>GREEN.
Now try zapping to 9HD - you should have success. Same with 9Go!
Zapping to ABC News and SBS HD should fail - unless you have the fallback receiver enabled.

Followed as above. Confirmed.
Enabled Fallback and confirmed the extra capacity.

I'd also been looking at the guide and my recordings from last night when the original situation presented. It left me with a question regarding sequencing, so I tested what I recalled had taken place. This was:
- Timer fired on 7HD.
- Users watching ABC or SBS, almost guaranteed with some Timeshift due to cuppas... and whilst in this mode...
- Timer fires on 9GemHD, which due to the likely usage of the two (only) internal tuners, takes place from across the network from the Fallback receiver.
- Timeshift of ABC or SBS ends and users start flicking around channels. All Providers except 9 Network are viewable via the freed internal tuner, however attempts to view any broadcast on Provider "Network 9" fail.

Tested and replicated. The cause being that the V2 refuses to use two tuners for the same Provider, despite it being the best option at the given time.

Thanks again to the gurus of this forum. I hope Beyonwiz look after you in some way.

Cheers, Steve

[MrQuade]

Ok, that makes a lot of sense now.

Because the second recording is being made via the network, the V2 thinks it can re-use the "tuner" allocated to that recording to view other nine services. It can't, because the network stem isn't a normal tuner.

Very interesting quirk of operation you have uncovered there.

The solution there would be to reprogram the wiz to always use a real tuner for recordings if one is available and not tied up with a recording already. This would result in a forced zap in your given scenario.