V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
When watching a program behind time while it is currently recording, the playback drops out regularly. It returns to the Media directory screen. Fortunately it is easy to resume play back by reentering the highlighted recording. It even manages to resume playback exactly where it dropped out. The only cure to the drop outs is to watch tv live. That defeats the best feature of PVRs which is watching programs behind time and skipping the ads!
Note that it seems the closer you are to real time, the more frequently the playback drops out.
For example:
Watching a program only 2 minutes behind time, while it is currently recording, results in regular dropouts.
Watching a program 7 minutes behind time, while it is currently recording, results in less frequent dropouts about every 5 minutes.
Viewing 11 minutes behind time resulted in a dropout after 10 minutes
Viewing 20 minutes behind time resulted in a dropout after 20 minutes
I suspect that there is a magic timeshift viewing time whereby no drop outs occur until you skip enough ads to catch up to a point where the drop outs occur again
In comparison, watching pre recorded programs after recording has finished does not result in drop outs.
I hope these clues are helpful.
Firmware version is. 19.3
Is this a known bug & can it be corrected please?
Note that it seems the closer you are to real time, the more frequently the playback drops out.
For example:
Watching a program only 2 minutes behind time, while it is currently recording, results in regular dropouts.
Watching a program 7 minutes behind time, while it is currently recording, results in less frequent dropouts about every 5 minutes.
Viewing 11 minutes behind time resulted in a dropout after 10 minutes
Viewing 20 minutes behind time resulted in a dropout after 20 minutes
I suspect that there is a magic timeshift viewing time whereby no drop outs occur until you skip enough ads to catch up to a point where the drop outs occur again
In comparison, watching pre recorded programs after recording has finished does not result in drop outs.
I hope these clues are helpful.
Firmware version is. 19.3
Is this a known bug & can it be corrected please?
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
That sounds like your storage media is not fast enough for the task. Are you using a microSD card?
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Good tip Peter. No I am not using a microSD card
Current configuration
I am using a Tendak USB 3 powered hub which is connected to the USB 3 on Beyonwiz
Both the USB Storage & USB quad tuner are then connected to Tendak USB 3 powered hub
Wifi USB wifi dongle was in Beyonwiz USB 2 ( Using for IceTv & minor firmware updates)
Changed config to speed up data transfer between Beyonwiz & USB storage
Tried connecting USB storage directly to Beyonwiz USB 3
Connectted hub to Beyonwiz USB 2
Left USB quad tuner connected to hub
Wifi USB dongle changed to connect to Hub
I tested again (with the USB storage directly to Beyonwiz USB 3 port instead of via the powered hub).
Partial success.
No dropouts until about 2 minutes behind time. Then it freezes the picture but doesn’t drop out. It stays frozen unless I press OK This enables the play back to continue. At least that is less disruptive & easy to resume playback.
Interestingly , if the recording stops & playback catches up, the picture freezes abruptly at that point & the only way to exit is to press the Stop button & go live.
This a big improvement. Thank you.
Current configuration
I am using a Tendak USB 3 powered hub which is connected to the USB 3 on Beyonwiz
Both the USB Storage & USB quad tuner are then connected to Tendak USB 3 powered hub
Wifi USB wifi dongle was in Beyonwiz USB 2 ( Using for IceTv & minor firmware updates)
Changed config to speed up data transfer between Beyonwiz & USB storage
Tried connecting USB storage directly to Beyonwiz USB 3
Connectted hub to Beyonwiz USB 2
Left USB quad tuner connected to hub
Wifi USB dongle changed to connect to Hub
I tested again (with the USB storage directly to Beyonwiz USB 3 port instead of via the powered hub).
Partial success.
No dropouts until about 2 minutes behind time. Then it freezes the picture but doesn’t drop out. It stays frozen unless I press OK This enables the play back to continue. At least that is less disruptive & easy to resume playback.
Interestingly , if the recording stops & playback catches up, the picture freezes abruptly at that point & the only way to exit is to press the Stop button & go live.
This a big improvement. Thank you.
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Hehe, you keep using the phrase "USB Storage" without elaborating what it actually is!
What are you using for storage?
One of the reasons that MicroSD and flash would be of particular concern is that when it writes, it needs to execute a read, erase and write operation on the last block of the file. If you are close to the end of a recording, presumably that is the data that is being read, cleared and re-written, leading to potential delays.
If you are using flash storage of any sort, the same rules may apply as compared to a slow MicroSD.
Do you have similar problems when you are timeshifting live TV? (by pressing the LEFT/DOWN arrow, REW, or PAUSE from Live TV)
What are you using for storage?
One of the reasons that MicroSD and flash would be of particular concern is that when it writes, it needs to execute a read, erase and write operation on the last block of the file. If you are close to the end of a recording, presumably that is the data that is being read, cleared and re-written, leading to potential delays.
If you are using flash storage of any sort, the same rules may apply as compared to a slow MicroSD.
Do you have similar problems when you are timeshifting live TV? (by pressing the LEFT/DOWN arrow, REW, or PAUSE from Live TV)
Logitech Harmony Ultimate+Elite RCs
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Using 4TB HDD (as supplied with V2) via USB 3 connection.
No I am not having any problems with timeshifting live TV.
No I am not having any problems with timeshifting live TV.
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- Uber Wizard
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
I wonder if this is a side effect of a shingled drive and chase-playing close to live?
But then I'd have thought it would have the same effect when playing from the timeshift buffer close to real time as well.
But then I'd have thought it would have the same effect when playing from the timeshift buffer close to real time as well.
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- Wizard God
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 15:15I wonder if this is a side effect of a shingled drive and chase-playing close to live?
But then I'd have thought it would have the same effect when playing from the timeshift buffer close to real time as well.
I agree with your thought about timeshift being subject to the same problem. Internally, both cases do much the same thing.
I'm about to try it on my test V2.
Tekno, when you say the firmware 19.3, I assume that you mean the 20191106 firmware (MENU>Information>About>Revision)? There has been more than one public firmware release in the 19.3 firmware series for the V2.
Peter
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Could be. A shingled drive needs to perform the same sort of operations as a flash drive does.Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 15:15I wonder if this is a side effect of a shingled drive and chase-playing close to live?
My U4 hasn't really skipped a beat with the shingled drive I fitted it with way back when though.
Could be a combination. There have been reports from other users about similarly unpredictable timeshift behaviour on the V2.
Logitech Harmony Ultimate+Elite RCs
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
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- Wizard God
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
I've just started a chaseplay 3 min behind on my V2. HDD is Toshiba Canvio Basics 1TB USB3 on the USB3 port.
I'll let it run a bit and then gradually skip closer to the recording point.
I'll let it run a bit and then gradually skip closer to the recording point.
Peter
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- Wizard God
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Kernel block caching should mitigate that, and in fact, it should be more effective the closer the read point is to the write point (because the written blocks are more likely to still be in the cache).
Peter
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U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV
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- Wizard God
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
OK, I chaseplayed 3 minutes behind for ~6 min, then 1 min behind for ~14 min (that was what was left of the recording), and it only dropped back to the media selection list when the play point caught up to the end of the recording after the recording finished.
I might try a longer run at 1 min behind tomorrow.
I might try a longer run at 1 min behind tomorrow.
Peter
T4 HDMI
U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV
T4 HDMI
U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Yes Build & revision is 20191106prl wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 15:32Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 15:15I wonder if this is a side effect of a shingled drive and chase-playing close to live?
But then I'd have thought it would have the same effect when playing from the timeshift buffer close to real time as well.
I agree with your thought about timeshift being subject to the same problem. Internally, both cases do much the same thing.
I'm about to try it on my test V2.
Tekno, when you say the firmware 19.3, I assume that you mean the 20191106 firmware (MENU>Information>About>Revision)? There has been more than one public firmware release in the 19.3 firmware series for the V2.
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- Wizard God
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
You can edit out parts of a quoted post that aren't relevant to your reply
Peter
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U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV
T4 HDMI
U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Another issue could be bad USB cabling or connectors. As the reads and writes get closer together, the HDD caches could start returning data, which means higher data rates on the USB bus and more scope for seeing malfunctions due to bus errors caused by physical connection issues.
If at all possible, it would be interesting to see the output of dmesg just after these errors manifest. Perhaps also some stats as returned by smartctl (although I'm not sure how well that may work with a USB drive)
If that seems too hard, do you happen to have an alternative drive you could test with? It does not need to be big, even an old 40GB IDE laptop drive with a USB adaptor would do the trick for testing purposes.
If at all possible, it would be interesting to see the output of dmesg just after these errors manifest. Perhaps also some stats as returned by smartctl (although I'm not sure how well that may work with a USB drive)
If that seems too hard, do you happen to have an alternative drive you could test with? It does not need to be big, even an old 40GB IDE laptop drive with a USB adaptor would do the trick for testing purposes.
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- Wizard God
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
smartctl -d sat -l error /dev/devicename seems the thing to do for my USB drive to get drive error messages.
However, SMART is off by default for my USB drive, and
smartctl -d sat -s on /dev/devicename
is needed to turn it on. It needs to be on to capture any errors, so turning it on won't let you see ant earlier errors.
The exact devicename to use in /dev/devicename will depend on your setup, but /dev/sdc should often work in simple configurations with only one USB drive.
Peter
T4 HDMI
U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV
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U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
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- Wizard God
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
I chaseplayed a 35-minute recording 1 minute behind the recording point. It played through to the end of the recording without any interruption.
It looks like something particular to Tekno's setup (or perhaps something peculiar to mine ).
V2, firmware 20191106, Toshiba Canvio Basics 1TB (MQ04UBF100 drive internally).
It looks like something particular to Tekno's setup (or perhaps something peculiar to mine ).
V2, firmware 20191106, Toshiba Canvio Basics 1TB (MQ04UBF100 drive internally).
Peter
T4 HDMI
U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV
T4 HDMI
U4, T4, T3, T2, V2 test/development machines
Sony BDV-9200W HT system
LG OLED55C9PTA 55" OLED TV
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- Uber Wizard
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Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Isn't it a bit trickier than that?
e.g. here, the USB drive was attached as /dev/sdb, I'm assuming it was attached to the USB 2 port.
Doesn't it depend on the usage of the USB 2 or USB 3 ports, and further, the automount discovery order?
I think checking using MENU>>Information>>Devices or OpenWebif's Box Info 'Hard disk' section is the way to go.
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
I will try testing with a different HDD next.
Meanwhile I have attached the Device information fyi
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Hi,
Identifying hard disk connections can be done through the Components/Harddisk.py tool methods. I don't know how well this is done on the Beyonwiz image as another OpenViX developer and I have just refactored and fixed this code for the other images. The code should be going into OpenViX in the next few days. I will update the other images I support in due course.
You may care to explore the bus() method to see if it is correctly identifying the storage device connection method for the disk you are exploring.
Regards,
Ian.
Identifying hard disk connections can be done through the Components/Harddisk.py tool methods. I don't know how well this is done on the Beyonwiz image as another OpenViX developer and I have just refactored and fixed this code for the other images. The code should be going into OpenViX in the next few days. I will update the other images I support in due course.
You may care to explore the bus() method to see if it is correctly identifying the storage device connection method for the disk you are exploring.
Regards,
Ian.
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
Note that my hub data transfer rate is 5 gbps. I only have the USB quad tuner plugged into it now though.
The hub itself is connected to the USB 2 port on the Beyonwiz
The HDD is connected to the USB 3 port on the Beyonwiz
Despite the direct connection of the HDD to the USB 3 port on the Beyonwiz, it still drops out in the same pattern when chasing a recording.
Re: V2 playback drops out when timeshifting
I will try testing with a different HDD next.
At this stage, I haven’t been able to get my hands on a another HDD to further test my problem.
At this stage, I haven’t been able to get my hands on a another HDD to further test my problem.