Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

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rrroonn
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Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by rrroonn » Sat Jan 27, 2018 14:54

Hi,

Looking for advice on EPG sources, ignoring IceTV for the moment. I have revived my T3 and it is currently using EIT data with all its inaccuracies.

I have used Shepherd (http://svn.whuffy.com/wiki) for MythTV and it works quite well - Shepherd is "based on" perl/XMLTV.

I was wondering if anyone had done something similar on Beyonwiz or what better options there are for guide data. Maybe there is a plugin?

thank you,

Ron

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by prl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 15:25

rrroonn wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 14:54
Hi,

Looking for advice on EPG sources, ignoring IceTV for the moment. I have revived my T3 and it is currently using EIT data with all its inaccuracies.

I have used Shepherd (http://svn.whuffy.com/wiki) for MythTV and it works quite well - Shepherd is "based on" perl/XMLTV.

I was wondering if anyone had done something similar on Beyonwiz or what better options there are for guide data. Maybe there is a plugin?
...
I can't find a match for Shepherd (searching case-independent for "shep") in the plugins list for the T4.

crossepg (in the systemplugins section of the plugin downloader) claims to be able to load the EPG from XMLTV. I don't know what other functions it has.

I've never used it, and I can't find any substantial discussion of it in the forum. There are a screen skins for it in the built-in skin files, but I don't know to what extent they've suffered from bit rot.
Peter
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rrroonn
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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by rrroonn » Sat Jan 27, 2018 16:18

Thanks Peter.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by prl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 16:27

prl wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 15:25
... There are a screen skins for [crossepg] in the built-in skin files, but I don't know to what extent they've suffered from bit rot.

If they have, say so, and I'll try to fix them.
Peter
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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Sat Jan 27, 2018 19:00

If you want an XMLTV format EPG data source, there's "New (free) XMLTV Aussie EPG Service - freepg.tv" in Whirlpool - https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-r ... ?t=2466464
I know nowt about it though, sorry.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by IanSav » Sat Jan 27, 2018 21:06

Hi Ron,
rrroonn wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 14:54
Looking for advice on EPG sources, ignoring IceTV for the moment. I have revived my T3 and it is currently using EIT data with all its inaccuracies.
Can you please explain the inaccuracies of the broadcast EPG?

Given that this information originates from the creators of the data I would expect this to be the most accurate source of this data. The main area where the data looses accuracy surrounds live events and particularly live sporting events. Another, lesser, source of error comes from changes to the EPG that are made after the EPG data is handed off to be broadcast. This is usually corrected a few times a day.

I don't see how any other source of EPG can be more accurate except for cases where the above issues are addressed in real time and an EPG update is forced by the PVR.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by rrroonn » Sun Jan 28, 2018 09:36

IanSav wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 21:06
Hi Ron,

Can you please explain the inaccuracies of the broadcast EPG?


Regards,
Ian.
Hi Ian,

I guess the main issues are

A. Where they keep changing the title:

A SHOW TITLE
A SHOW TITLE - ALL NEW EPISODES
A SHOW TITLE - EXPRESS FROM USA

B. Where they are lazy and dont include a proper summary, but just repeat the same title and description even though they are different episodes. Made even worse when they have a mixture of reruns in there:
A SHOW TITLE
A show about dogs
A SHOW TITLE
A show about dogs

Obviously it can make doing series recording somewhat more challenging.

I did try installing Shepherd but it relies on PERL. I did install PERL on the T3 but ran into missing PERL module dependencies and it just became too hard, hence my original post.

Having said that, I know Shepherd relies on some community generated guide data and some episode descriptions I have seen are just a plug for donations to keep them going. I guess the enthusiasm for LiveTV is waning in the modern "streaming" era and keeping the community guides going may not be viable much longer.

I also recently tried the PLEX DVR which gets its guide from Gracenotes which I suspect is just the Freeview guide anyway. While I did not persevere too long, I did come across wrong data in in its guide. Given that the DVR functionality is a subscription service and is still buggy and unreliable, I have shelved that for a while.
If you want an XMLTV format EPG data source, there's "New (free) XMLTV Aussie EPG Service - freepg.tv"
Thanks Geoff, I know that oztivo is one of the sources that Shepherd uses. I guess that I was hoping that someone had advice on packages that could run on the T3 (like Shepherd) to grab the guide data and them import into Beyonwiz.

I will have to look deeper into crossepg as, at face value, it seems like it may do what I want. I may need to run shepherd on another linux box/vm but I will see how I go.

thanks for all the feedback and suggestions,

Ron

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by IanSav » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:02

Hi Ron,

The issues you listed are more to do with the quality of the data and not its accuracy.

I don't think you would win if you complained to the TV stations about the self promotions in the titles but you may get some traction if you push for more useful information in the short and long descriptions they broadcast.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by prl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:27

Another glaring lack in the FTA guide data - any consistent flagging of repeats.
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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by IanSav » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:31

Hi Prl,
prl wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:27
Another glaring lack in the FTA guide data - any consistent flagging of repeats.
This could be improved when you complete your CRID developments.

Just thinking out loud... We may be able to put the CRID data in the EPG to allow for repeats to be spotted via the Episode CRID value. Obviously the value of this idea will improve when more of the Broadcasters actually broadcast the CRID data.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by prl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:36

IanSav wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:31
Hi Prl,
prl wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:27
Another glaring lack in the FTA guide data - any consistent flagging of repeats.
This could be improved when you complete your CRID developments.
...

How? The only way I think they could be used for that is to save all episode CRIDs, to disk and use that to mark repeats, and then, of course, it would only detect repeats for episodes screened after you started logging CRID data.

And even with that, because (at least) every network is its own naming authority, repeats on, one broadcaster that were originally shown on another one won't be detected by that scheme. And because of the fractured nature of CRID naming authorities even within broadcasters, there's no guarantee that repeats even for the same broadcaster will be properly detected. There isn't even a simple scheme to parse a naming authority name to extract the broadcaster from it.
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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by peteru » Sun Jan 28, 2018 14:44

When I wrote the IceTV plugin, I added the eEPGCache::importEvents() API to enigma2 to provide proper EPG import interface. Unlike most other enigma2 code, the API is documented and provides decent parameter checks and debug messages.

If you are going to work on ingesting the EPG from an alternative source, you'd want to use that API.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by IanSav » Sun Jan 28, 2018 18:22

Hi Prl,

My thought was to place the episode CRID as some "text" in the EPG data and use text matching to see if it is the same as any other episode CRID in any other EPG entry.

I haven't thought this through as I am more deeply involved in some structural changes for Enigma2 with OpenViX and OpenPLi.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by prl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 18:35

IanSav wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 18:22
...
My thought was to place the episode CRID as some "text" in the EPG data and use text matching to see if it is the same as any other episode CRID in any other EPG entry.
...

That won't find repeats from one broadcaster to another, but that probably doesn't matter much, because it only identifies repeats within the timespan of the EPG anyway.

That's not what I'd call "consistent flagging of repeats". It's certainly very inferior to the repeat flagging in IceTV, even with IceTV's occasional errors in that area.

It would probably be a better way of doing the "encore" identification that AutoTimers tries to do, provided that CRIDs were added to the recording .meta files.
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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by IanSav » Sun Jan 28, 2018 20:28

Hi Prl,
prl wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 18:35
That won't find repeats from one broadcaster to another, but that probably doesn't matter much, because it only identifies repeats within the timespan of the EPG anyway.
I was wondering if it might make sense to cache the CRID data for longer than the EPG cycle. Perhaps the CRID data for any show recorded could be cached for a stated number of broadcasts or a specified period of time. The CRIDs to be captured could be triggered by any event that was recorded. That is, if you show interest in recording a program then capture all CRIDs related to that program so that you can form your own opinions about if a episode has been seen by you or not.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by prl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 20:36

Thst doesn't seem like a very satisfactory scheme to me, and only helps with repeats of programs that have shown after you start using the system. So all the decades old British crime drama on 7TWO would be treated as first runs.
Peter
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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by IanSav » Sun Jan 28, 2018 20:47

Hi Prl,
prl wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 20:36
Thst doesn't seem like a very satisfactory scheme to me, and only helps with repeats of programs that have shown after you start using the system. So all the decades old British crime drama on 7TWO would be treated as first runs.
Very true but you can't use information that you don't have. ;) The suggestion revolves around trying to build an information base for moving forward.

Still it won't hurt to nudge the broadcasters repeatedly to be honest with viewers and flag their programs correctly.

Regards,
Ian.

prl
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Re: Has anyone installed Shepherd or XMLTV on T3/4 etc?

Post by prl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 21:16

I'm afraid I can only see it as a source of confusion.
Peter
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