U4 high pitch noise during operation?

[NoDeity]

It could also be the CPU fan you are hearing?
It would be unusual to be able to hear the HDD spindle motor on a 2.5" drive from more than a couple of metres away. It is my experience that the head movmement will be louder than the spindle motor (whine).

Nope, not the fan, not the HDD, not the motherboard, possibly the heat sink, see my comment above.

You might want to read the half-dozen or so posts in this topic before yours. A possible noise source has been identified. That's one of the reasons I moved your post here.

I don't know how a heat sink could make much noise at all, other than a bit of creaking if it's not secured well. The identified possible noise sources are quite near the heat sink, though.

I suggest that anyone having this problem should contact Beyonwiz.

I checked the fan thoroughly, stopped it with a finger and even loosened it up. It is not the FAN. Sorry to be so succinct, but I did explain it in my post. I also doubt it's the heatsink obviously, but there is a problem here that can't be solved quickly by the owners. I also have contacted Beyonwiz and awaiting reply.

[prl]

It could also be the CPU fan you are hearing?
It would be unusual to be able to hear the HDD spindle motor on a 2.5" drive from more than a couple of metres away. It is my experience that the head movmement will be louder than the spindle motor (whine).

Nope, not the fan, not the HDD, not the motherboard, possibly the heat sink, see my comment above.

You might want to read the half-dozen or so posts in this topic before yours. A possible noise source has been identified. That's one of the reasons I moved your post here.

I don't know how a heat sink could make much noise at all, other than a bit of creaking if it's not secured well. The identified possible noise sources are quite near the heat sink, though.

I suggest that anyone having this problem should contact Beyonwiz.

I checked the fan thoroughly, stopped it with a finger and even loosened it up. It is not the FAN. Sorry to be so succinct, but I did explain it in my post. I also doubt it's the heatsink obviously, but there is a problem here that can't be solved quickly fy the owners.

The posts I was referring you to suggest that it is noise from faulty inductors in switched-mode power supplies around and under the HDD and near the left-hand (as viewed from the front) side of the heat sink. They don't suggest that it's fan noise. The posts I mean start here.

You raised the possibility of it being the heatsink. MrQuade and I were responding to this in your OP: "Now I can't say for sure that it's coming from the heat sink".

I also said in reply to your OP: " I suggest that anyone having this problem should contact Beyonwiz."

[jchharris]

Hi

I have no objection to the thread being merged.

I received an email from Beyonwiz and they are aware of the threads and the issue. They requested an audio file (which I’ve sent) so they can compare to the units they have.

[stevebow]

if you remove the fan from the heatsink the noise is the still the same but if you unplug the fan the board stops humming.

It sounds like it could be a switching regulator on the mainboard making noise when it is loaded by the fan as it's plugged in, possibly an inductor, as mentioned elsewhere.

As prl mentioned earlier, best to contact BW.

[Ukind]

Ok so I also have the same issue, I have an SSD installed so I expected it to be very quiet. The fan was not even running & I could hear it even above the tv volume. Unfortunately, my unit is stuck on "booting" so it looks like it may have to be returned. Interestingly the noise disappeared during the frozen "booting" screen. So what now?

I have sent an email to through the "contact us" link but have had no reply, is there a contact phone number or can anyone explain to me the return process? Although my unit looks to have a hardware fault I would not be happy to get a replacement unit with the same hum/noise as it really did irritate me.

[NoDeity]

Whatever is causing the problem, it's not something that can be sorted by the owner at home unless they are particularly expert with electronics. I suspect a general recall is going to be the only recourse here, which is disappointing.

[lonnie]

That kind of noise doesn't seem normal and you and 007 007 should probably contact Beyonwiz about it.

Thanks, I've just logged a support request and sent an audio file of the noise.

[lonnie]

The noise is frustratingly high pitched enough to hear from our bedroom which is adjacent to the living room when everything is shut down and the U4 in standby. I can't think of anything I can do to fix the problem.

It sounds as though our U4 has the same issue - the high pitched noise is loud enough that you can hear it several metres away.

[lonnie]

I think lonnie means, how can you tag a user so they receive a notification like some other forums.

I don't know if it is even possible on this forum, but the good news is that you don't really need to since the regular posters generally read every single post on the forum anyway

Yes, that's what I meant - but I see Peter reads most posts so he ended up seeing my question anyway
Thanks.

[prl]

... I suspect a general recall is going to be the only recourse here, which is disappointing.

You seem to be assuming that all U4s have the same problem. They don't. I have two sitting beside me on my desk that only have normal fan and/or HDD noise.

Those that do have the problem will almost certainly have to go back, though.

[prl]

... I have sent an email to through the "contact us" link but have had no reply, is there a contact phone number ...

There's a phone number on the same page. I know it says "Sales", but if you've seen the office, you'd know how little that means

[NoDeity]

... I suspect a general recall is going to be the only recourse here, which is disappointing.

You seem to be assuming that all U4s have the same problem. They don't. I have two sitting beside me on my desk that only have normal fan and/or HDD noise.

Those that do have the problem will almost certainly have to go back, though.

Given the number of people who logged here to complain about it today, I doubt it's just the odd machine playing up. Sounds like your machines might be exceptions to the rule. Either way, there is nothing that can be done to sort the problem at home, so at the very least, there's going to be a lot of machines going back for either repair replacement or refund.

[chamill]

The fan noise is loud no doubt about it.

But what's normal vs abnormal? In terms of loudness?

I'm happy to make a small 45 second video recording and link it to my Twitter account. So you can judge.

If it's 'noisy by nature' and not abnormally noisy then I can live with it.

[prl]

The noise being discussed is high pitched and audible several metres away and doesn't seem to be typical "whirring" fan noise to me (I don't know for sure because I haven't heard it).

If it's normal, but louder than expected, fan noise, that may well also be a problem, but that's not, in the main, what people are complaining about in this topic.

[peteru]

OK, I've devised an unofficial quick hack solution to the problem.

Connect a 1,000uF @ 25V capacitor across the fan connector, paying attention to the correct polarity.

Other capacitor values may also work, as long as the voltage rating is at least 16V and the capacitance is high enough to smooth out the PWM ripple.

Beyonwiz are still working on the final solution, which may come in the form of a software patch.

[stu_h]

Here’s an example.

Ssd drive installed by the way

https://youtu.be/NSCWA10FY8g

Have emailed Beyonwiz about issue

[Ukind]

Yep I can confirm that is the same noise that I have and without the fan running. Very noticeable. Hopefully firmware can fix it but it won't help me as my unit won't boot.

[000]

+1 here -- My U4 Barebones (now with a 1TB SSD) arrived today, and straight away noticed the same problem (high-pitched noise)... Will lodge an issue with Beyonwiz support as well...

[MrQuade]

I can confirm that my unit has the whine as well.
It was not apparent at first, but I can hear it now from several meters away.
It must be at a frequency where it bounces around the room strangely and creates nodes, so I can only hear it when I hold my head in different locations.

[peteru]

Try this:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan on
root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff

Does it get better? For me the whine went away.

[MrQuade]

Yep, that definitely seems to get rid of the whine. All I can hear is what is consider a normal fan noise.

[glen]

Try this:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan on
root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff

Does it get better? For me the whine went away.

Hi Peteru

What are the mechanical/electrical effects of these commands?

Regards Glen

[jchharris]

Try this:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan on
root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff

Does it get better? For me the whine went away.

This resolved the high pitch noise issue for me as well.

[prl]

Try this:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan on
root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff

Does it get better? For me the whine went away.

This resolved the high pitch noise issue for me as well.

And for me, too.

It turns out that what I was describing as normal fan noise was what everyone else was describing as the high-pitched wine.

[NoDeity]

Try this:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan on
root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff

Does it get better? For me the whine went away.

Relieved to see there is a solution, I'd already packed mine back into the box for recall, that's how frustrating the noise was for me. So where do we paste that bit of code, given the file system is the same as the T4? I'm not a coder but using Filezilla I can see the folders etc in the box, I just need a quick where, precisely, to paste it to. Thanks

[MrQuade]

Relieved to see there is a solution, I'd already packed mine back into the box for recall, that's how frustrating the noise was for me. So where do we paste that bit of code, given the file system is the same as the T4? I'm not a coder but using Filezilla I can see the folders etc in the box, I just need a quick where, precisely, to paste it to. Thanks

They are one off command that need to be entered at the command line. The setting will be lost after a reboot, so this isn't a solution, just a test.

I imagine that PeterU will now look into making these permanent settings and the will be an online update coming soon.

It would also be possible to paste those lines into a text file called "whinebuster.sh". Copy the file onto the Wiz and then you can execute the file from the Files/Sources File Manager. (Again, this is just a temporary stopgap)

[MrQuade]

What are the mechanical/electrical effects of these commands?

It looks like it sets the fan to run at full speed/voltage rather than sending it a lower voltage (pwm=pulse width modulation=send power to the fan in short bursts to simulate a lower voltage)

It was the rapid switching on/off of the fan per that was causing the whine in in some component. PeterU's electronic solution that involved soldering in a capacitor would result in the rapid on/off pulses becoming a more gentle another average voltage.

[cgrahame]

What are the mechanical/electrical effects of these commands?

It looks like it sets the fan to run at full speed/voltage rather than sending it a lower voltage (pwm=pulse width modulation=send power to the fan in short bursts to simulate a lower voltage)

It was the rapid switching on/off of the fan per that was causing the whine in in some component. PeterU's electronic solution that involved soldering in a capacitor would result in the rapid on/off pulses becoming a more gentle another average voltage.

So it gets rid of the electronic whine (I believe they call it coil whine) but does running the fan at full peed make the fan noise noticeable from more then a few meters away?

I am waiting on the outcome of both this problem with the buzzing noise and also the issue with the U4 not being able to wake from Deep Standby/Shutdown to do recordings before I make a decision to send this unit back or not.

Hopefully both can be fixed with just a software update.

Cheers
Craig

[MrQuade]

So it gets rid of the electronic whine (I believe they call it coil whine) but does running the fan at full peed make the fan noise noticeable from more then a few meters away?

I couldn't really hear the difference in fan noise with the pwm enabled or disabled. The fan itself doesn't appear to be any louder than the T4's.

[NoDeity]

Relieved to see there is a solution, I'd already packed mine back into the box for recall, that's how frustrating the noise was for me. So where do we paste that bit of code, given the file system is the same as the T4? I'm not a coder but using Filezilla I can see the folders etc in the box, I just need a quick where, precisely, to paste it to. Thanks

They are one off command that need to be entered at the command line. The setting will be lost after a reboot, so this isn't a solution, just a test.

I imagine that PeterU will now look into making these permanent settings and the will be an online update coming soon.

It would also be possible to paste those lines into a text file called "whinebuster.sh". Copy the file onto the Wiz and then you can execute the file from the Files/Sources File Manager. (Again, this is just a temporary stopgap)

Ah, well I'll set her up again and wait for the patch. I am happy that it was a simple fix, I had in my mind a massive recall and subsequent delay in sending them back otherwise. If you're reading this PeterU thanks and apologies for the angst.

[prl]

Relieved to see there is a solution, I'd already packed mine back into the box for recall, that's how frustrating the noise was for me. So where do we paste that bit of code, given the file system is the same as the T4? I'm not a coder but using Filezilla I can see the folders etc in the box, I just need a quick where, precisely, to paste it to. Thanks

They are one off command that need to be entered at the command line. The setting will be lost after a reboot, so this isn't a solution, just a test.

I imagine that PeterU will now look into making these permanent settings and the will be an online update coming soon.

It would also be possible to paste those lines into a text file called "whinebuster.sh". Copy the file onto the Wiz and then you can execute the file from the Files/Sources File Manager. (Again, this is just a temporary stopgap)

Or, to have it all happen automagically, put the commands in /usr/bin/enigma2_pre_start.sh (doesn't exist by default) and set execute permissions on the new file. Then the commands will be executed at GUI startup time. Remove, rename, or turn off execute permssions on /usr/bin/enigma2_pre_start.sh to stop it being done.

[prl]

...
I am waiting on the outcome of both this problem with the buzzing noise and also the issue with the U4 not being able to wake from Deep Standby/Shutdown to do recordings before I make a decision to send this unit back or not.
...

As a workaround for the waking from shutdown for recordings, put the U4 into standby instead of shutdown, That's the default action for short-POWER, anyway.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

...
Or, to have it all happen automagically, put the commands in /usr/enigma2_pre_start.sh (doesn't exist by default) and set execute permissions on the new file. Then the commands will be executed at GUI startup time. Remove, rename, or turn off execute permssions on /usr/enigma2_pre_start.sh to stop it being done.

Make that /usr/bin/enigma2_pre_start.sh

[prl]

...
Or, to have it all happen automagically, put the commands in /usr/enigma2_pre_start.sh (doesn't exist by default) and set execute permissions on the new file. Then the commands will be executed at GUI startup time. Remove, rename, or turn off execute permssions on /usr/enigma2_pre_start.sh to stop it being done.

Make that /usr/bin/enigma2_pre_start.sh

Indeed. Fixed in the original post. Error filling in the shell variable cut/pasted from enigma2.sh.

[sub3R]

Connect a 1,000uF @ 25V capacitor across the fan connector, paying attention to the correct polarity.

Other capacitor values may also work, as long as the voltage rating is at least 16V and the capacitance is high enough to smooth out the PWM ripple.

Thanks for that information & quick response. Have you looked at the PWM supply to the fan on a CRO to see what the 1000uF cap changes by any chance? I don’t have access to a CRO anymore & it has been a long time since I mucked around with PWM, so I would be interested if it changes the fan speed or if it changes the rise & decay times.

I’m not too keen on running the fan at full speed as per the software command & would prefer the h/w mod if it is more suitable. I found a new 820uF 35V electro in my spare parts box that I may try later.

[cgrahame]

...
I am waiting on the outcome of both this problem with the buzzing noise and also the issue with the U4 not being able to wake from Deep Standby/Shutdown to do recordings before I make a decision to send this unit back or not.
...

As a workaround for the waking from shutdown for recordings, put the U4 into standby instead of shutdown, That's the default action for short-POWER, anyway.

Yes, I realise putting the U4 into a normal standby rectifies the problem of it not waking from standby to do recordings but it is not a suitable permanent fix for me as I do not consider the normal standby on the Beyonwiz PVR's to be a true standby function. Standby should only use a few watts of power at most and the only way the Beyonwiz PVR's can do this is Deep Standby/Shutdown.

I bought the U4 for doing recordings only. It will not be used for general TV watching and will not be needed most of the time we are watching TV, so I would like it to be in Deep Standby when it is not recording or being used to watch a recording.

Regards
Craig

[MrQuade]

Yes, I realise putting the U4 into a normal standby rectifies the problem of it not waking from standby to do recordings but it is not a suitable permanent fix for me as I do not consider the normal standby on the Beyonwiz PVR's to be a true standby function.

That's why prl said it was a Workaround and not a fix.
The waking problem should be fixable in software/firmware too, so for the time being, just use standby mode, and wait for the update.

[graeme2]

Try this:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan on
root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff

Does it get better? For me the whine went away.

Worked for me too. Thanks!

[lonnie]

Try this:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan on
root@beyonwizu4:~# echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff

Does it get better? For me the whine went away.

I'd like to implement this fix for now - I can access the U4 using it's IP address and Terminal on my Macbook Pro but I'm having trouble with the password.

edited to add: just found the password set up in the menu, and implemented the fix.
The high pitched noise is gone, and I can only hear the fan.

Thanks peteru.

Cheers.

[peteru]

Connect a 1,000uF @ 25V capacitor across the fan connector, paying attention to the correct polarity.

Other capacitor values may also work, as long as the voltage rating is at least 16V and the capacitance is high enough to smooth out the PWM ripple.

Thanks for that information & quick response. Have you looked at the PWM supply to the fan on a CRO to see what the 1000uF cap changes by any chance? I don’t have access to a CRO anymore & it has been a long time since I mucked around with PWM, so I would be interested if it changes the fan speed or if it changes the rise & decay times.

I’m not too keen on running the fan at full speed as per the software command & would prefer the h/w mod if it is more suitable. I found a new 820uF 35V electro in my spare parts box that I may try later.

Nope, I have no access to a DSO or CRO. The 1,000uF electrolytic is the first thing I found in the drawer. A quick test fixed the issue. I'd be pretty sure that the 820uF part will work too. It would be interesting to observe the waveform with different value caps and correlate that to the noise generated, but I don't have the means.

Running the fan at full speed doesn't seem to generate much more fan noise than the default speed, but it eliminated the PWM whine. I'm not sure, but it may be possible to get the hardware PWM generators programmed to operate at a different frequency to avoid the resonating noise and still provide speed control. Even if that is not possible, the fan noise at full speed is no worse than the T4 fan.

[graeme2]

"Running the fan at full speed doesn't seem to generate much more fan noise than the default speed, but it eliminated the PWM whine. I'm not sure, but it may be possible to get the hardware PWM generators programmed to operate at a different frequency to avoid the resonating noise and still provide speed control. Even if that is not possible, the fan noise at full speed is no worse than the T4 fan."

Peter, I didn't notice much of a difference in fan noise after the whine stopped, however the fan doesn't want to stop when you put the box in standby. I waited for 35-40 mins and it was still spinning.
Had to power back on and then go to shutdown to get it to stop. If I leave it in standby, how long will that fan last running nonstop?

[sub3R]

Nope, I have no access to a DSO or CRO. The 1,000uF electrolytic is the first thing I found in the drawer. A quick test fixed the issue. I'd be pretty sure that the 820uF part will work too. It would be interesting to observe the waveform with different value caps and correlate that to the noise generated, but I don't have the means.

Running the fan at full speed doesn't seem to generate much more fan noise than the default speed, but it eliminated the PWM whine. ...

Thanks, nice work, I know how frustrating it can be without decent test gear. I’ll try the 820uF cap & see if I can see anything change as far as frequency & voltage on my DMM, & if there is any noticeable difference in fan speed.

I could do with the loan of a good pair of young ears to see if it stops the noise generated by the PWM though. My mid to high frequency hearing isn’t anywhere what it used to be & tinnitus in one ear doesn’t help (I used an insulated flexible tube to narrow down the area on the mother board where the noise appeared to be coming from).

My concern about running the fan at full speed was more to do with the life of the fan when running 24/7 when on or if left in standby. If it was a good Noctua I would feel more comfortable.

[Lazzar54]

Will there be a official fix for this in the way of a patch or firmware update.

[prl]

Will there be a official fix for this in the way of a patch or firmware update.

My understanding is that that is the intention, if it's possible.

[prl]

...
I could do with the loan of a good pair of young ears to see if it stops the noise generated by the PWM though. My mid to high frequency hearing isn’t anywhere what it used to be & tinnitus in one ear doesn’t help (I used an insulated flexible tube to narrow down the area on the mother board where the noise appeared to be coming from).
...

I don't have great HF hearing, either, and tinnitus in both ears, but the change in fan tone when I applied the
echo >/proc/stb/fp/fan_pwm ff
part of peteru's temporary fix was quite distinct.

[sub3R]

Good to know, thanks. Perhaps I’ll try that first seeing it is temporary, so that I have a reference.

[peteru]

the fan doesn't want to stop when you put the box in standby. I waited for 35-40 mins and it was still spinning.
Had to power back on and then go to shutdown to get it to stop. If I leave it in standby, how long will that fan last running nonstop?

That's as intended. The fan provides cooling even in standby since there's plenty of heat generated. I have no idea what the expected lifespan of the fan is. I've had various fans running continuously for 15+ years and I've had fans fail after a few months. Luckily the fan in the U4 is simple to replace and does not look like an expensive or esoteric part.

[singlefished]

My concern about running the fan at full speed was more to do with the life of the fan when running 24/7 when on or if left in standby. If it was a good Noctua I would feel more comfortable.

I recently went in search of a fan for my Pioneer Plasma TV... If you can get the make and model then pump it into Google there's a good chance you'll stumble upon manufacturer specs that will give you expected life span

[sub3R]

... If you can get the make and model then pump it into Google there's a good chance you'll stumble upon manufacturer specs that will give you expected life span

I went down that path a couple of days ago when I installed the HDD & noticed the fan.

The fan we have in our U4 is marked:
“FXDS. DC brushless fan model: DC 12V. +red –black. SZFUXIDESHUO Co. Ltd. Made in China.”

I measured this as 50 x 50 x 12 with 7 blades & mounting holes at 40 centres & 56.5 diagonals.

See image at the bottom.

The FXDS website shows two types of 50 x 50 DC fans.
One here which isn’t the one we have (no enclosed sides).
And the other one is here which looks like ours but the height is different (unless I measured the height wrong – I’ll check that later).
(edit) Measured again & confirmed height as 12mm. (/edit)

For each of those models there are four 12V models that cover four different speeds & air flow, & each one has a voltage range of 7 – 14V.

I don’t know which one of those we have. And so far I haven’t been able to find an expected life span.

(edit 2:) See here onwards for more info about the fan in the U4. (/edit 2)

In my experience with fans, they can last a fair while but due to the type of bearings some use, they get noisier with time. One I had to regularly re-lube before eventually scrapping it.