U4 high pitch noise during operation?

jchharris · Post by **jchharris** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 09:55

Hi,

Has anybody noted the fan on the U4 emitting a constant high pitched noise? In a quiet room I can here it at about 5m away. With the TV on, it is still sometimes audible.

I'm not sure if this is expected or if there is something wrong with the fan. Does the fan speed adjust itself based on the temperature inside the unit? Its about 21C in the well ventilated cabinet that the U4 is in and the unit itself doesn't feel warm to the touch.

Thanks

IanL-S · Post by **IanL-S** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:43

I am sure you should not be hearing such a noise. On Toppys when this happens it is sometimes fixed my loosening the screws attaching the fan to the case.

Ian

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:13

I haven't noticed any fan noise from my test U4 units, and they sit on my desk, less than a metre away from my head.

I think that peteru had some fan noise problems on his test unit, but that might have been specific to his device. I don't know the exact details.

You'd have difficulty loosening (or tightening) the screws attaching the U4's fan to the case, because there aren't any. The fan is screwed to the main chip's heat sink (and exhausts through the top of the case).

IanL-S · Post by **IanL-S** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 15:24

I did not realise it was a heatsink fan rather than a case fan

I would not have made that mistake if I had one

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 16:49

IanL-S wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 14, 2018 15:24
I did not realise it was a heatsink fan rather than a case fan ...

I have mentioned it in other contexts, but if you haven't been following the U4 discussion, you may not have seen it (or not noticed it if you've been following the discussion with a low care value).

IanL-S · Post by **IanL-S** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 08:32

Just opened up my U4 to put in the HDD, and noticed that the fan is not glued to the SoC; while it seems to at least in part act as a heat sink, there is no direct connection between the fan and the SoC. The fan is screwed on to a 'cover' which is placed above the SoC, and looks to be easily replaceable. So it may be that tightening or loosening the screws may mitigate the noise.

Ian

IanL-S · Post by **IanL-S** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:26

There is a fan control systeemplugin which may allow you to control the noise level.

Ian

Paul_oz53 · Post by **Paul_oz53** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:38

IanL-S wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:26
There is a fan control systemplugin which may allow you to control the noise level.

Ian

That may not be a good idea. Except if the SoC has inbuilt temperature sensor protection, the risk of cooking the processor is very high if you disrupt the cooling. It could be an expensive mistake if you get it wrong!

dRdoS7 · Post by **dRdoS7** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:45

Hi,

Paul_oz53 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:38

IanL-S wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:26
There is a fan control systemplugin which may allow you to control the noise level.

Ian
That may not be a good idea. Except if the SoC has inbuilt temperature sensor protection, the risk of cooking the processor is very high if you disrupt the cooling. It could be an expensive mistake if you get it wrong!

Noisy fan is not a good idea either.

I used trimpots on my Toppy 2470, and on PC power supplies. Bit more difficult though.

dRdoS7

Paul_oz53 · Post by **Paul_oz53** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 13:45

Noisy fan is not a good idea either.

Agree completely. My number one annoyance.

If it were just a case fan, I would try the plugin. But it's not. Experienced overclockers aside, given it's the main processor cooling, tinkering involves risk that could end in tears for newbies. I would hate to learn someone destroyed their unit trying to deal with a noise issue.

Sight unseen, I have no idea if heatsink changes or fan changes are feasible or if heat pipe or water cooling could be tried to quell noise. If noise is an issue, I would be keen to ensure any suggestions to address it are tried and safe alternatives.

Cheers, Paul

dRdoS7 · Post by **dRdoS7** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 14:16

Hi,

Might be worth installing the plugin to see if displays the temperature, that way it will be possible to monitor it. See what happens when playing and transferring files, recording on all tuners, etc. Then while playing with the settings, watch the temps. Same method when OCing PCs.

dRdoS7

cgrahame · Post by **cgrahame** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:38

jchharris wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 14, 2018 09:55
Hi,

Has anybody noted the fan on the U4 emitting a constant high pitched noise? In a quiet room I can here it at about 5m away. With the TV on, it is still sometimes audible.

I'm not sure if this is expected or if there is something wrong with the fan. Does the fan speed adjust itself based on the temperature inside the unit? Its about 21C in the well ventilated cabinet that the U4 is in and the unit itself doesn't feel warm to the touch.

Thanks

I too are hearing this same high pitched constant buzz. Wasn't sure if it was the fan or something else. Thought I would just wait and see if other U4 owners report this before asking about it either on here or with BeyonWiz directly.

The sound is quite easy to hear in a quiet room and can even be heard quite easily while watching programs like the news which have lots of silent/quiet parts.

This and the problem with the unit not being able to wake up from Deep Standby/Shutdown to do recordings has me quite worried I might have to return this box unless there is a fix for both problems.

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:39

Has anyone else noticed a high pitch whir/whine when their U4 is powered up?

It is quiet while booting up, but the noise is audible while recording or in standby modes. It only stops when the unit is powered down completely.

I'm assuming it's the hdd and am wondering about swapping it out for an ssd instead... but don't know if the noise is typical of all the U4 units?

Cheers, lonnie

*edited the thread topic since it's not the hdd making noise...

IanL-S · Post by **IanL-S** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:44

No fan noise problem with my U4.

Ian

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:45

It could also be the CPU fan you are hearing?
It would be unusual to be able to hear the HDD spindle motor on a 2.5" drive from more than a couple of metres away. It is my experience that the head movmement will be louder than the spindle motor (whine).

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:03

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:45
It could also be the CPU fan you are hearing?
It would be unusual to be able to hear the HDD spindle motor on a 2.5" drive from more than a couple of metres away. It is my experience that the head movmement will be louder than the spindle motor (whine).

Thanks - it's not a problem when watching a recording or live tv, just noticeable when there is no other noise in the room. This is the first Beyonwiz unit we've had and I don't know what a typical one sounds like

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:10

IanL-S wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 08:32
Just opened up my U4 to put in the HDD, and noticed that the fan is not glued to the SoC; while it seems to at least in part act as a heat sink, there is no direct connection between the fan and the SoC. The fan is screwed on to a 'cover' which is placed above the SoC, and looks to be easily replaceable. So it may be that tightening or loosening the screws may mitigate the noise.
...

My interpretation of the setup on my production U4 is:

Black aluminium heat sink held down onto the SOC by two steel pillars that go down to the motherboard (and screwed down from under the motherboard?), and the fan screwed onto the heat sink. The fan draws air up a channel in the middle of the heatsink.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:16

The harddisk can be set to spin down when the unit is in standby mode if that is your preference too

007 007 · Post by **007 007** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:18

Just got my BB U4 today ( ordered 8 Nov ) and put in 4tb harddrive straight away. Turned on and straight away noticed the fan is very loud.
I sit 5m back and projector is above my head but fan from U4 is way louder. It has to be fixed as its too loud for me. Putting foam feet underneath did not help so its not from vibration. I've checked the fan and it is actually spinning ok. Sounds like an electronic whirr like an old tv or capacitor.

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:28

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:16
The harddisk can be set to spin down when the unit is in standby mode if that is your preference too

OK, thanks, I'll find that in the menu and see if that reduces the standby noise

Cheers.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:33

IanL-S wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:26
There is a fan control systeemplugin which may allow you to control the noise level.
...

The plugin will only install itself into a main menu entry that the Beyonwiz firmware doesn't have. There's no other way to get to its controls.

The U4 also lacks the temperature sensors that would allow it to work properly:

Code: Select all

root@beyonwizu4:/media/hdd/logs# ls /proc/stb/sensors/temp
name   type   unit   value
root@beyonwizu4:/media/hdd/logs# cat /proc/stb/sensors/temp/*
dummy
0
0
0
root@beyonwizu4:/media/hdd/logs#

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:40

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:16
The harddisk can be set to spin down when the unit is in standby mode if that is your preference too

That's the default, and it's not explicitly connected to standby.

The HDD defaults to spin down after 5 minutes of HDD inactivity. Standby shuts down timeshift, and if there are no recordings being made and debug logging isn't enabled, that will normally mean that there's no HDD activity most of the time in standby. After 5 minutes of HDD inactivity, the system will spin down the HDD.

That also means that if you have timeshift disabled completely, the HDD can spin down when the system is fully running.

The HDD spin down control is in MENU>Setup>Storage>Hard disk setup.

007 007 · Post by **007 007** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:59

Just opened up the U4 and it's not the fan making the noise it's coming from under the heatsink. Not happy now as I'm leaving on a delayed christmas holiday tomorrow.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 18:12

007 007 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:59
Just opened up the U4 and it's not the fan making the noise it's coming from under the heatsink. ...

I don't think there's anything under the heatsink that can make a noise. There really are only two noise sources in the box, the fan and the HDD.

chamill · Post by **chamill** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 18:31

My U4 is noisy as well but I believe it's due to a cooling fan as described above. I think the actual mechanical hard drive is very quiet.

It's a great unit overall in my opinion.

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 19:51

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:45
It could also be the CPU fan you are hearing?

I think you are right - the hdd was set to power down after 5 minutes as Peter mentioned. So I gather it's the fan and will be a permanent thing.

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 19:52

chamill wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 18:31
My U4 is noisy as well but I believe it's due to a cooling fan as described above. I think the actual mechanical hard drive is very quiet.

It's a great unit overall in my opinion.

Thanks for that - I'm really happy with the features of the U4; just hadn't expected it to have this audible noise/hum.

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 06:18

I had another look/listen this morning - I can hear the fan whir over the cpu, just after the U4 boots up and as it shuts down, but the other resonant high pitched noise is coming from the area with the power supply plug and the hdd.

I moved the U4 out of the shelving area and it's a bit quieter, but still quite audible.

Peter - prl - (not sure how to tag you in this forum) - did you notice anything similar in your test U4 and would you have any suggestions regarding minimising noise, please?

I've taken a video which records the noise, but again, I'm not sure if it's possible to embed video on this forum.

Cheers, lonnie

jchharris · Post by **jchharris** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 06:53

For mine, I would think it is the fan. The noise starts as soon as I observe the fan spinning up. I've contacted Beyonwiz to see what they say about it.

007 007 · Post by **007 007** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 07:33

As far as I can tell it's something on the board - if you remove the fan from the heatsink the noise is the still the same but if you unplug the fan the board stops humming. Either fan faulty and pulling too many mA or controller faulty.
( I removed the HD as well just to be sure but still the same noise )

stu_h · Post by **stu_h** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 08:00

Mine makes the same sort of noise, but its got an SSD in it , so its not drive noise.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:08

lonnie wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 06:18
...
Peter - prl - (not sure how to tag you in this forum) - did you notice anything similar in your test U4 and would you have any suggestions regarding minimising noise, please?
...

prl is the better tag, because one of the other most frequent posters on the forum, peteru, is also (not surprisingly) Peter.

I didn't have fan noise problems with either my pre-release U4 that I was doing testing on or with the production U4 that I recently got. If I put my head near the case I can hear the fan whirring, but if my head's a metre or so away from the case, I can't hear the fan. I don't have any high-pitced noise from the unit as all like what you describe. In another topic 007 007 seems to be describing something similar.

That kind of noise doesn't seem normal and you and 007 007 should probably contact Beyonwiz about it.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:24

prl wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:08

prl is the better tag, because one of the other most frequent posters on the forum, peteru, is also (not surprisingly) Peter.

I think lonnie means, how can you tag a user so they receive a notification like some other forums.

I don't know if it is even possible on this forum, but the good news is that you don't really need to since the regular posters generally read every single post on the forum anyway

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:35

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:24

prl wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:08

prl is the better tag, because one of the other most frequent posters on the forum, peteru, is also (not surprisingly) Peter.

I think lonnie means, how can you tag a user so they receive a notification like some other forums.

I don't know if it is even possible on this forum, but the good news is that you don't really need to since the regular posters generally read every single post on the forum anyway

I hadn't thought of that, but I was looking out for the post anyway, because lonnie had PM'd me the same question and I suggested that since the answer would probably be of general interest, he should repost on the forum.

I don't think there's any way for a user to notify another user of a post apart from sending a PM with a link to the post. It's possiblr for a user to mark another user as a "friend" and get notifications of all the friend's posts, but the control there is the other way around. I don't use that facility.

I do get auto-notification if someone quotes me in a post (provided they leave the user_id info in the quote).

However, all of that is moot, because as you say, I look at every post made on the forum (apart from when I return from time away from the forum and need to catch up quickly).

stu_h · Post by **stu_h** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:45

yeah mine is making the same noise , its not a fan but an electronic whine.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:47

That sort of noise isn't normal. Something similar has been reported by lonnie, too in U4 1Tb model high pitch noise during operation?

My advice to you is the same as my advice to him: contact Beyonwiz. (stu_h, too)

stevebow · Post by **stevebow** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:52

Another possibility is the switchmode PSU, possibly a whistling transformer. If the switching frequency (typically 10s/100s KHz) is at at or near a harmonic of e.g a loose winding, it may induce it to resonate and audibly whistle.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:55

stevebow wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:52
Another possibility is the switchmode PSU, possibly a whistling transformer. If the switching frequency (typically 10s/100s KHz) is at at or near a harmonic of e.g a loose winding, it may induce it to resonate and audibly whistle.

I thought most of that gear would be in the power brick? Though I suppose there are a few DC-DC circuits on the mainboard too.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:17

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:55

stevebow wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:52
Another possibility is the switchmode PSU, possibly a whistling transformer. If the switching frequency (typically 10s/100s KHz) is at at or near a harmonic of e.g a loose winding, it may induce it to resonate and audibly whistle.
I thought most of that gear would be in the power brick? Though I suppose there are a few DC-DC circuits on the mainboard too.

No transformers that I could see on the motherboard, but under the HDD and between it and the SOC heat sink there are several inductors (marked Ln on the board). There are three more inductors over near the tuners. Under and near the HDD there are also some greyish-silver cans marked ECn with polarity marked. I suspect they may be electrolytics, but I'm not sure.

The inductors could be the source of the noise if they're providing DC-DC conversion.

stevebow · Post by **stevebow** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:20

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:55
I thought most of that gear would be in the power brick? Though I suppose there are a few DC-DC circuits on the mainboard too.

Ah, so the U4 has an external PSU. Could be something on the mainboard.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:25

stevebow wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:20

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:55
I thought most of that gear would be in the power brick? Though I suppose there are a few DC-DC circuits on the mainboard too.

Ah, so the U4 has an external PSU. Could be something on the mainboard.

Like the inductors I mentioned in my post above.

stevebow · Post by **stevebow** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:31

prl wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:25
Like the inductors I mentioned in my post above.

Sorry, your post hadn't appeared when I wrote that. Like the inductors you mentioned.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:46

No problem. Let's just agree to blame the inductors

Paul_oz53 · Post by **Paul_oz53** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:48

stu_h wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:45
yeah mine is making the same noise , its not a fan but an electronic whine.

Magnetostriction perhaps. A faulty coil in a regulator circuit could make a high pitched noise as the loading on the regulator changed.

Is there a component labelled "L" in the immediate vicinity of the sound source?

NoDeity · Post by **NoDeity** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:56

The U4 came yesterday and I spent some time setting it up with a 128gb SSD. Later when we went to bed, I turned the box off and immediately realised the thing was giving off a high pitched hum even though it was in standby mode, it's quite loud too. So instead of going to bed, I had to check where the noise was coming from, I assumed it was the fan. First, I powered it fully off with the rear switch, which obviously stopped the noise then I removed the cover, powered on and listened, sure enough, it started to hum as soon as it was fully powered up. However, to make sure it "was" the fan, I stopped it with my finger and the noise was still there? Now I can't say for sure that it's coming from the heat sink, but I can say that it is loud enough to be annoying. I removed the SSD and tried dampening the heat sink and anything else that could possibly vibrate with my finger, with no change. I also loosened the motherboard to make sure it wasn't there and the same for the fan. I could actually hear it when I was watching the TV earlier, but I had a caddy hooked up and just figured it was that, but it wasn't. The noise is frustratingly high pitched enough to hear from our bedroom which is adjacent to the living room when everything is shut down and the U4 in standby. I can't think of anything I can do to fix the problem, I've also tried putting it on a foam base to isolate it from the cabinet. I have a feeling, short of a solution from the forum, I'm going to have to send it back and if it's an endemic problem, I don't want a replacement either. Very frustrating.

I actually did search for U4 Hum and didn't find it, which is why I've gone into so much depth here. Just so I'm clear, it's not the fan, it's not the HDD, it's not anything that can be isolated. From the list of complainants here, I think Beyonwiz may have a recall to sort out.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:00

Paul_oz53 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:48

stu_h wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 09:45
yeah mine is making the same noise , its not a fan but an electronic whine.
Magnetostriction perhaps. A faulty coil in a regulator circuit could make a high pitched noise as the loading on the regulator changed.

Is there a component labelled "L" in the immediate vicinity of the sound source?

Yes, several.

If there's no objection, I'll merge the two topics under the name "U4 high pitch noise during operation?" and put the merged topic here in the hardware section.

There are lots of the same questions being asked in both.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:02

If there's no objection, I'll merge this with Re: U4 fan noise under the name "U4 high pitch noise during operation?" and put the merged topic in the hardware section.

There are lots of the same questions being asked in both.

NoDeity · Post by **NoDeity** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:15

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:45
It could also be the CPU fan you are hearing?
It would be unusual to be able to hear the HDD spindle motor on a 2.5" drive from more than a couple of metres away. It is my experience that the head movmement will be louder than the spindle motor (whine).

Nope, not the fan, not the HDD, not the motherboard, possibly the heat sink, see my comment above.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:17

NoDeity wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:15
Nope, not the fan, not the HDD, not the motherboard, possibly the heat sink, see my comment below.

The heatsink is a passive component so it can't be that. See prl's post about the inductors on the motherboard under the CPU.

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