T2 black-screening

[Nightblade]

Hello everyone,

As per title, my T2 is continuously black-screening every 15 seconds or so for about 3 seconds. Connected via HDMI. Audio and UI are affected. Running latest firmware.

Logged a support request a week ago, but the unit is way out of warranty.

Any help appreciated!

Cheers,
Nighty

[Grumpy_Geoff]

As per title, my T2 is continuously black-screening every 15 seconds or so for about 3 seconds. Connected via HDMI. Audio and UI are affected.

Check the HDMI cable has a good connection at each end.
Have you tried component (or even composite) cables to decide if this is an HDMI issue or some other display issue?
Have you tried another HDMI port in the TV?

Running latest firmware.

"latest" is meaningless - much better to state the specific version.

[MrQuade]

Usually a sign that the HDMI connection is bad.

Drop the resolution, and if the black screens stop, then it is a bad cable.

You can also try a different port on the tv, or just try a different cable.

[Nightblade]

Check the HDMI cable has a good connection at each end.

Yes, tried a different HDMI cable too.

Have you tried component (or even composite) cables to decide if this is an HDMI issue or some other display issue?

I don't have the cables to test those sadly.

Have you tried another HDMI port in the TV?

Yes. Also I have a MagicTV plugged in to another HDMI socket and working fine.

"latest" is meaningless - much better to state the specific version.

Firmware version 19.3.20191106 (19.3-273-g6f501ae)

Drop the resolution, and if the black screens stop, then it is a bad cable.

Tried, no difference.


Auto video resolution is off btw.

[Paul_oz53]

Usually a sign that the HDMI connection is bad.

Drop the resolution, and if the black screens stop, then it is a bad cable.

You can also try a different port on the tv, or just try a different cable.

I sometimes get this on the U4. It's definitely a result of a HDMI issue. I usually have to reboot the U4 to stop it. Sometimes switching through the HD and SD channels will cure it.

In the case of the U4, it is usually triggered while using HDMI IN, a feature which the T2 does not have. Even so, if changing or unplugging and replacing the cable doesn't work, try a reboot.

[Nightblade]

try a reboot.

Nope. First thing I tried

[Grumpy_Geoff]

So, let me summarise and see if I've got this correct.

You have -

• rebooted
• tried a different output resolution
• tried a different HDMI cable
• tried a different HDMI port in the TV
• installed known good f/w

If so, then it sounds like "dry solder joints" (not that I know what I'm talking about ).

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Oh, is this on each of live TV, recording playback, static menus, even (maybe especially) radio services?

[prl]

If so, then it sounds like "dry solder joints" (not that I know what I'm talking about ).

Giving the HDMI plug a gentle push up or down while it's plugged into the socket and seeing if that changes whether the picture is displayed might give an idea of whether that's the cause.

[Paul_oz53]

So, let me summarise and see if I've got this correct.

You have -

• rebooted
• tried a different output resolution
• tried a different HDMI cable
• tried a different HDMI port in the TV
• installed known good f/w

If so, then it sounds like "dry solder joints" (not that I know what I'm talking about ).

Not sure Nightblade has tried a different cable but dry solder joints or a poor HDMI connector joint is highly likely to be the culprit.

Wiggling the cable as prl suggests or trying a new cable are highly recommended. If it's due to dry joints or a faulty HDMI port then a repair shop is needed.

I suspect you know more about dry joints than you let on Grumpy_Geoff.

For those who don't: molten solder normally bonds components to the metal tracks of the motherboard. If soldering is not performed with adequate heat and cleanliness, over time microcracks grow between the two sides of the joint, leading to a high resistance or open connection, often years later. Wiggling may temporarily fix the problem. Usually, resoldering is the cure but pros may replace the port as a precaution if it's easy to do.

[Nightblade]

So, let me summarise and see if I've got this correct.

You have -

• rebooted
• tried a different output resolution
• tried a different HDMI cable
• tried a different HDMI port in the TV
• installed known good f/w

Correct.

Oh, is this on each of live TV, recording playback, static menus, even (maybe especially) radio services?

Yep.

Giving the HDMI plug a gentle push up or down while it's plugged into the socket and seeing if that changes whether the picture is displayed might give an idea of whether that's the cause.

I'll try some gentle wiggling and will update the thread tomorrow.

[Paul_oz53]

For completeness sake, try to find, beg or borrow the analogue cables to try that mode too.

Hopefully, the problem isn't in the silicon but it could be. A full power off, wait 30 seconds and restart may reset the silicon. This has been necessary a couple of times for me.

In the case of the U4, it will either blank the picture or the sound or cause alternating blank screen and picture if the HDCP signal is lost. It seems that is the cause of this problem when the U4 plays up.

Some YouTube videos trigger it when playing back but it's not apparent why that happens. Probably a content protection issue. Your problem is more likely to be hardware related though.

[Nightblade]

The plot thickens: I pulled the thing out of it's spot in the lounge room and put in on a different TV and it's working fine so far. Looks like it might not like the Sony 43X800H. I'm feeling a bit stupid right now, since the Sony is new, and I didn't even consider that as a possible area of concern as it's working fine with a MagicTV.

Just for the record, gently deflecting the HDMI connector doesn't make any difference in either TV.

I'm kind of lost as to where to go from here. The new TV's been a bit of a nightmare too -- horrible judder on Kayo & chromecast.

[Paul_oz53]

The plot thickens: I pulled the thing out of it's spot in the lounge room and put in on a different TV and it's working fine so far. Looks like it might not like the Sony 43X800H. I'm feeling a bit stupid right now, since the Sony is new, and I didn't even consider that as a possible area of concern as it's working fine with a MagicTV.

Just for the record, gently deflecting the HDMI connector doesn't make any difference in either TV.

I'm kind of lost as to where to go from here. The new TV's been a bit of a nightmare too -- horrible judder on Kayo & chromecast.

I suspect you are having a problem with the Sony negotiating HDCP with the Wiz over HDMI.

If so, the only suggestion I have is to try running the Wiz through a HDMI splitter similar to the one Beyonwiz sell. It strips off the HDCP signal. Can't guarantee it will work though.

No idea why Kayo and Chromecast judder. Sounds like an issue to take up with Sony.

[Nightblade]

No idea why Kayo and Chromecast judder. Sounds like an issue to take up with Sony.

I have been. So far we're stuck at the "it must be your network" stage... sigh.

[MrQuade]

I suspect you are having a problem with the Sony negotiating HDCP with the Wiz over HDMI.

Doubtful. The V2 doesn't do HDCP. Besides HDCP mismatch usually ends up with no picture at all, not an intermittent one.

The plot thickens: I pulled the thing out of it's spot in the lounge room and put in on a different TV

I know that you mentioned you had tried dropping the resolution, but is the other TV also a 4K device? If it is a Full-HD TV, it may lack some of the fancy new 4K signalling that the new TV supports.

Have you tried disabling (or enabling) "Enhanced HDMI" mode on the new TV's HDMI input. This setting can generally be set on a per-port basis. The V2 does support enhanced-HDMI mode (works fine when enabled on mine for example), but it may be getting tripped up with the Sony? Unless you plan on playing any HDR media on the V2. then the setting shouldn't be required.

I'm kind of lost as to where to go from here. The new TV's been a bit of a nightmare too -- horrible judder on Kayo & chromecast.

Judder is a tricky one since everyone's take on what judder is can be different. I know some who will be upset when motion smoothing is turned off because they perceive the natural screen cadence as judder. Sometimes the switch to a new panel technology LCD-Fluoro/LCD_LED/OLED can lead to a different perception too, as do TVs that perform black-frame insertion.

Problems with Kayo do have a smell of a true judder problem though. Kayo will be displaying 50Hz source content, and the Chromecast and TV will usually default to a 60Hz HDMI signal as that is more compatible with US-centric media and movie-sourced material.

Maybe look into this:
https://support.google.com/chromecast/a ... d&hl=en-SG

[Paul_oz53]

I suspect you are having a problem with the Sony negotiating HDCP with the Wiz over HDMI.

Doubtful. The V2 doesn't do HDCP. Besides HDCP mismatch usually ends up with no picture at all, not an intermittent one.

If the V2 doesn't output HDCP then a splitter is useless. Scrap that idea.

On the U4 I frequently get the flashing black screen or occasionally a picture no audio. Rarely no picture. Are these due to HDCP? Don't really know and no way to tell. However, cycling the power usually fixes it.

[Nightblade]

The V2 doesn't do HDCP. Besides HDCP mismatch usually ends up with no picture at all, not an intermittent one.

Did you mean to say T2? It's not a V2.

I know that you mentioned you had tried dropping the resolution, but is the other TV also a 4K device? If it is a Full-HD TV, it may lack some of the fancy new 4K signalling that the new TV supports.

The spare TV (the one it works with) isn't 4K, it's a crappy Hisense 24".

Have you tried disabling (or enabling) "Enhanced HDMI" mode on the new TV's HDMI input.

I have, no difference. (When switched to "Enhanced" there's no sound though.)

Kayo will be displaying 50Hz source content, and the Chromecast and TV will usually default to a 60Hz HDMI signal as that is more compatible with US-centric media and movie-sourced material.

That was my guess as well. The chromecast built-in doesn't have the option to switch to 50Hz annoyingly.

Not sure if it's related, but I've noticed this 50Hz test file is juddery too when played back from USB (the top-most bars specifically):
H.264 1080p/50.000 (MKV)
Whereas this 60Hz file is perfect:
H.264 1080p/60.000 (MKV)

But at least I can adjust Motionflow to help mitigate playback of that 50Hz file via USB -- it's greyed out for Kayo.

[MrQuade]

Did you mean to say T2? It's not a V2.

Oops, yep.

The spare TV (the one it works with) isn't 4K, it's a crappy Hisense 24".
...
I have, no difference. (When switched to "Enhanced" there's no sound though.)

That would be normal. The usual issue with a HDMI "enhanced" mismatch is a loss of audio.

That was my guess as well. The chromecast built-in doesn't have the option to switch to 50Hz annoyingly.

But at least I can adjust Motionflow to help mitigate playback of that 50Hz file via USB -- it's greyed out for Kayo.

Ahh, now that is a problem. That's a real shame that the built in Android TV would have that issue. I know that my Shield does have a "Force 50Hz" option, though it may be under the developer section.

I have played around with this app to automatically switch rates:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... n_US&gl=US

I eventually decided it was too much effort for switching in Netflix and Amazon etc, as the DRM was tripping it up. It may be useful for you though to be able to switch to 50Hz on launch of Kayo. It is very possible that this is not compatible with the Sony TV, or the TV may prevent you from some of the "extra steps" required to get it going.

Short of that, it might be worth trying to contact the Kayo devs to see if anything can be done, since that is a pretty serious problem on their side considering the size of the Sony market and the native Android OS.

EDIT:
Hmm wait, you said casting....not using a Kayo app though? That could be a bigger hurdle. The refresh rate switcher may still be of some use though.

[Nightblade]

Hmm wait, you said casting....not using a Kayo app though? That could be a bigger hurdle. The refresh rate switcher may still be of some use though.

I've tried both the Kayo app and the chromecast built-in. Judder in both. I'm not sure what you mean about the rate switcher, wouldn't I need a shield for that?

[MrQuade]

I've tried both the Kayo app and the chromecast built-in. Judder in both. I'm not sure what you mean about the rate switcher, wouldn't I need a shield for that?

It's an app thats available from the store. It should be compatible with a variety of Android TV devices.

[Nightblade]

It's an app thats available from the store. It should be compatible with a variety of Android TV devices.

Gave it a go, but it only shows 60p or "Default", didn't help Kayo playback.


Back on topic, does anyone have any other suggestions for the T2?

[peteru]

Intermittent HDMI dropouts are most often caused by bad cables or connectors. External EMI noise can also cause this. However, in most cases, such problems would not exhibit as a cyclical issue with a predictable repetition interval. If you have a situation where it works for 15 seconds, then renegotiates for 3 seconds, then works for 15 seconds, ... and so on, then there is a systematic issue.

I'm familiar with the driver code on the T2 and can tell you that:

• there is no HDCP on the T2 output
• there is no code that would have a 15 second timeout that would cause HDMI renegotiation
• renegotiations would be due to a hotplug event, request from TV or mode change from the T2
• renegotiation requests from the TV could occur if the TV sends out a new capability list, drops/resets the HDMI connection or somehow violates the HDMI protocol

My suggestion is to try a completely different brand of HDMI cable, in case the cables you use have somehow managed to break hotplug detection. Very unlikely, but probably easy enough if you have a box of spares.

However, the most likely scenarios is that there is something wrong with the TV, either at the hardware or firmware level. The fact that the same T2 works with a different TV would suggest that it is not anything that is specific to your T2. Since thousands of other users don't see this problem implies that the issue is not endemic to the T2. That leaves the TV or the installation as the most likely suspects. It sounds like you have done some troubleshooting on the installation. Maybe do a Google search on the TV and see if there are reports of issues when connecting other brands of devices.

If you want to spend more effort on troubleshooting this, the T2 has a serial debug port. It may be possible to collect more information from there that could possibly give some clues. Then again, you may not get anything useful.

[Nightblade]

An update for those still playing:

Today I received and installed the HDMI splitter I purchased from the Beyonwiz website as a last-ditch attempt to fix the problem.

At first the problem seemed fixed, until I played something I had recorded, at which time it started black-screening constantly. However, after I returned to live TV the problem happened maybe 3 more times with an increasing period of time between each black-screen.

Since then I've watched about 2 hours of live and recorded TV and it hasn't done it at all. I have noticed however some occasional clusters of ultra-brief sound dropouts. Changing the audio stream to MPEG seemed to fix it temporarily.

Weird.

[peteru]

Definitely sounds like a connection / cabling problem.

I'm not sure of the exact installation you have with the splitter. I will assume that the splitter HDMI input is connected to the Beyonwiz HDMI output using a short high quality cable and one of the splitter outputs is connected to the TV using a longer cable. I will also assume that this is a HDCP stripping splitter that does full protocol negotiation - i.e. more than just logic gate buffers.

If that is the case and you are seeing brief dropouts and glitches, I would at first suspect the longer cable and anything connected to it. Since that longer cable is now connected to the splitter, instead the Beyonwiz, it follows that most likely source of the problems would appear to be the cabling installation or the device that the cable is connected to.

I use the term cabling installation, because the source of the problem could be EMI, in which case the routing of the cable (past anything that generates interference) could be significant.

[Paul_oz53]

An update for those still playing:

Today I received and installed the HDMI splitter I purchased from the Beyonwiz website as a last-ditch attempt to fix the problem.

At first the problem seemed fixed, until I played something I had recorded, at which time it started black-screening constantly. However, after I returned to live TV the problem happened maybe 3 more times with an increasing period of time between each black-screen.

Since then I've watched about 2 hours of live and recorded TV and it hasn't done it at all. I have noticed however some occasional clusters of ultra-brief sound dropouts. Changing the audio stream to MPEG seemed to fix it temporarily.

Weird.

Sorry it's still an issue. We experience two different manifestations of this effect:

The more severe form arises at random intervals (multiple hours apart). It usually arises after a reboot after a session watching YouTube via HDMI IN on the U4. Also, it can be triggered watching Foxtel via the U4 but with no apparent cause.

My setup is complicated, which annoys the other half. I have a switch to select between Foxtel and the dongle on HDMI IN. To keep it "fresh" the U4 reboots daily on a timer. Perhaps I should be using deep standby instead.

I digress.

When I get the black screen flashes on the U4, sometimes I find cycling through a couple of live TV channels of different resolutions will cure it. Stubborn cases require a power off/on cycle. Rebooting doesn't seem to be sufficient.

The less severe form appears on YouTube. I watch YouTube videos through the Wiz dongle. Just accessing the icon or watching the video will trigger the flashing for some videos. There's a software/coding/codec issue at play here, most likelyinthe dongle. It is temporary and disappears when I move to a different icon.

However, I don't see any flashing on Wiz recordings per se. If the U4 was stable beforehand no flashing will arise. If it was unstable then the video will be unstable.

This makes me wonder if some videos include coding errors that are passed through to the hardware/firmware and, in turn, if this triggers the flashing.

As Peteru points out, if it were so, we'd expect to see many more reports of the problem. Meanwhile, we persist with local workarounds to make viewing tolerable.

[Nightblade]

Definitely sounds like a connection / cabling problem.

I do value your opinion, but personally I'm not convinced it's got anything to do with the cables. I've tried at least 4 different cables from 3 manufacturers directly from the T2 to the Sony TV, problem still occurs. One of the cables is a brand new Monster Cable, 1.2m long. The T2 also works fine (mostly) on a Hisense TV with any of the cables. The Sony TV works fine with a MagicTV and a *very* cheap HDMI cable too.

Now, via the splitter (after some initial trouble) the black-screens have disappeared.

[peteru]

I agree that you have done a fair bit to eliminate the cables themselves as the source of issues. But, is it possible that there could be another device that causes EMI noise? If that HDMI cable runs past that source of noise, say an external plug pack power supply, it could be affected. Having said that, seeing symptoms that occur regularly every 15 seconds would be highly unlikely, unless the interference is caused by something that has a switching pattern with that type of duty cycle. About the only thing that I know of, that would fit this pattern, would be some kind of an electrical heating apparatus that uses a solid state relay to control temperature. It's a long shot. A more likely explanation is that the TV has an issue.

What we know so far:

• Beyonwiz T2 works just fine with a different TV.
• The symptoms you report are not a known problem for other T2 users.
• T2 has been around for many years and has been using the same drivers, so it's a known quantity.
• Sony TV works fine with other devices.
• Sony TV is a new model and it's compatibility is unknown.
• Adding a splitter between the Beyonwiz and TV eliminates any electrical incompatibility between T2 and TV. (The splitter completely re-encodes the HDMI signal.)
• If it was a hardware fault on your T2 HDMI output, you'd expect problems with the second TV too.
• If it was an issue with the drivers on the T2, you'd expect that there would be a number of users reporting same problems.
• If it was a hardware fault on the TV HDMI input, you'd expect to see issues with other devices connected to that HDMI input. You would also expect the issue to go away when using another (non-faulty) HDMI input on that TV.
• If the issue is the same on all TV HDMI inputs, you may suspect the firmware behind the TV's HDMI inputs.

So, I think the most likely culprit is the TV itself. I'm not sure how Sony deal with this type of problem, but I do know that if this was an issue with a Samsung TV, your best bet would be to get a refund ASAP and buy something else. In my experience Samsung do not have a good track record on fixing bugs in their firmware. See how you go with Sony. Maybe investigate if other users are also reporting compatibility issues with that TV model and what they may have done to solve their problems.

[Nightblade]

I don't think I'll have much luck dealing with Sony Australia -- I've already had one issue put in the "it must be your network" category so they don't have to admit they need to fix it...

Seems like every electronics manufacturer nowadays just makes cheap nasty junk.

[prl]

I don't think I'll have much luck dealing with Sony Australia -- I've already had one issue put in the "it must be your network" category so they don't have to admit they need to fix it...

When I contacted them about the fact that my LG TV can't do ARC on HDMI with a Sony HT system, all they could offer was "do a factory reset and reconfigure". Not surprisingly, didn't do anything.

"Help Desk: Not a desk. Doesn't help." - Don Watson

[Paul_oz53]

I don't think I'll have much luck dealing with Sony Australia -- I've already had one issue put in the "it must be your network" category so they don't have to admit they need to fix it...

When I contacted them about the fact that my LG TV can't do ARC on HDMI with a Sony HT system, all they could offer was "do a factory reset and reconfigure". Not surprisingly, didn't do anything.

"Help Desk: Not a desk. Doesn't help." - Don Watson

This and Peteru's analysis persuade me the problem is due to the firmware differences in HDMI as implemented by various TV manufacturers.

That some, but not many, users report a flashing black screen suggests something in the various TV set firmware implementations renegotiates the HDMI connection at intervals. Perhaps fortuitously, the splitter implementation of HDMI appears not to be prone to this problem.

I doubt we'll ever know the answer as to why the problem occurs but if a splitter minimises the impact at least that gives us a work around.