Beyonwiz Australia

So, my 18 month old LG oled tv now has a few 'burn-in' images (so much for burn-in' not being a thing anymore). The biggest culprit is 7 news and its bright red 7 logo. Obviously the ass-hats at 7 aren't aware that red is the worst colour for static images that you can have on an oled tv.
What I'd like to be able to do is to put up an image (with programmable colours) that covers the logo. Anyone have any ideas?

Before anyone asks... it's definitely burn-in, not image retention as the other image is of the Minecraft HUD - specifically the red hearts near the bottom. I haven't played Minecraft in over 3 months.

Maybe you could enable PiP and place that over the offending area? You can customise there location and size to a degree. That has the benefit of being a continuously changing colour.

I don't know if any specific plugins though.

Along the same line would be to use the Bitrate viewer plugin, positioning the window over the logo.
There's a pic of it in this post viewtopic.php?t=12766&p=171559#p171559
It's probably just as easy to access, just two button presses, BLUE>>{n} Bitrate viewer from Live TV.

Hi Star6key,

I would also contact the Seven Network and complain about the damage their watermark is causing to a frequent watcher of their services. Depending on how they react you may also like to contact ACMA to register a complaint with them. Another call might be to LG to complain about burn-in issues that shouldn't be happening on such an expensive product sold here with the knowledge that Australian TV has persistent watermarks.

Regards,
Ian.

Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 20:56

Along the same line would be to use the Bitrate viewer plugin, positioning the window over the logo.
There's a pic of it in this post viewtopic.php?t=12766&p=171559#p171559
It's probably just as easy to access, just two button presses, BLUE>>{n} Bitrate viewer from Live TV.

Looked interesting, but sadly, does not play well when the source your watching is a file playback (normal timer recording). Any time you press a skip button, the bitrate viewer goes off screen. Since I only watch recorded files, it's not very practical.

MrQuade wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 19:23

Maybe you could enable PiP and place that over the offending area? You can customise there location and size to a degree. That has the benefit of being a continuously changing colour.
...

This had promise, but getting pip to work consistently... well that's another story. Right now, I'm looking at a 'locked' cursor on screen i.e. cursor is in the middle of the screen, but not rotating. No remote buttons work... but the recording is still playing...

I think I'll go back to TEN News (but I HATE Tim Bailey with a passion, and that ridiculous mini mohawk ain't helping). Sigh...........

IanSav wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 22:40

Another call might be to LG to complain about burn-in issues that shouldn't be happening on such an expensive product sold here with the knowledge that Australian TV has persistent watermarks.

I trust that suggestion was tongue in cheek

MrQuade wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 23:11

IanSav wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 22:40

Another call might be to LG to complain about burn-in issues that shouldn't be happening on such an expensive product sold here with the knowledge that Australian TV has persistent watermarks.

I trust that suggestion was tongue in cheek

Sorry to disagree but I hope not. If I survive the sharemarket crash, oesophageal surgery and the chemo, my plan is to buy a Smart TV and watch travelogue videos of the places I can no longer visit.

Learning that a major brand is subject to burn-in crosses LG off my list. My current LG plasma has burn-in protection that works so they definitely know what is needed. Seems a bit like deciding to omit a major safety feature and not mention it to the world. (Where have I heard that story before? Tongue-in-cheek definitely). Based on user posts, LG was on shaky ground with me anyway but identifying something that actually works with the U4 is looking like a challenge. Also, if it isn't too old, it may well fall into the category of unfit for it's intended purpose. There could be an Australian Consumer Law question here too.

Hi MrQuade,

MrQuade wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 23:11

I trust that suggestion was tongue in cheek

I am being serious. If the manufacturer knows that a country uses on screen watermarks and sells a product into that market and that product suffers damage because of the watermark then that is a problem they need to address.

Mind you in a digital world there is no need for on screen watermarks to tag the source of the material.

/rant Watermarks are evil and should never have been permitted. Not only do the burn screens they always appear over some part of the picture that people want to see. Particularly subtitles!

Regards,
Ian.

Paul_oz53 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 00:59

Learning that a major brand is subject to burn-in crosses LG off my list.

It's not the brand, it is the technology. Image retention, both temporary and in chronic cases, permanent is simply inherent to the technology. They can partially mitigate it with periodic screen refreshes, pixel shifting, and automatic dimming, but you'd be asking them to change the laws of physics.

Every manufacturer of OLED screens faces the same problem, and their sets have the same problem. You'd be just as well to ask them to change the laws of physics. You could compare it to complaining to icecream manufacturers that their products are unsuited to Australian summer conditions.

The only thing you could accuse them of, is downplaying the risk, and not educating potential buyers on the kind of material that can cause their panels harm.

CRT sets and Plasma sets had these problems for decades, and while Plasma also had some mitigating strategies, they still suffered from image retention eventually in their own fashion.

If you are in the habit of watching obnoxious content that features bright static images, then you should be buying an LED screen. All manufacturers still make those, and they are good for what they are good at. Someone like myself who uses the TV primarily for watching dramatic content (TV series and movies), the OLED offers an unrivaled picture quality and black levels.

Buyers need to educate themselves and buy appropriate products to their needs.

IanSav wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 01:56

I am being serious. If the manufacturer knows that a country uses on screen watermarks and sells a product into that market and that product suffers damage because of the watermark then that is a problem they need to address.

Mind you in a digital world there is no need for on screen watermarks to tag the source of the material.

/rant Watermarks are evil and should never have been permitted. Not only do the burn screens they always appear over some part of the picture that people want to see. Particularly subtitles!

I'm with you on the evils of watermarks, and the TV stations should be encouraged to stop using the bright obvious ones. They're trying to advertise their brand, but it is at the cost of their primary audience. (I'm thinking they make them so prominent on the news for when their stories are shown elsewhere such as online content providers).

But what country in the world is completely devoid of watermarked TV content? You can't blame the TV manufacturers for that, the watermarks and sports/stock tickers are practically inescapable if you watch that flavour of content.

MrQuade wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 02:17

But what country in the world is completely devoid of watermarked TV content? You can't blame the TV manufacturers for that, the watermarks and sports/stock tickers are practically inescapable if you watch that flavour of content.

I don't object too much to watermarks that are actually like their paper namesake: visible, but unobtrusive, where the picture can still be seen under the watermark.

Too many "watermarks" on Australian FTA are nothing like that.

prl wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 08:55

MrQuade wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 02:17

But what country in the world is completely devoid of watermarked TV content? You can't blame the TV manufacturers for that, the watermarks and sports/stock tickers are practically inescapable if you watch that flavour of content.

I don't object too much to watermarks that are actually like their paper namesake: visible, but unobtrusive, where the picture can still be seen under the watermark.

Too many "watermarks" on Australian FTA are nothing like that.

+1

What triggered my concern in the original post was this occurred with a red logo on Seven news, which is less than an hour program when interrupted by ads. I play ABC News as daytime background with a substantial banner. The Covid 19 press conference just now ran with a bright red banner uninterrupted on all news services for over an hour. If this crisis continues for 6 months could this damage an OLED screen? Possibly, based on this case.

If OLED technology is not suitable for watching such programs although watermarks and banners are now standard fair then it should be sold with a prominent warning, despite its superiority for other content. Of course, marketing blurbs will reduce this to the smallest font possible.

Paul_oz53 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 13:02

...

What triggered my concern in the original post was this occurred with a red logo on Seven news, which is less than an hour program when interrupted by ads. I play ABC News as daytime background with a substantial banner. The Covid 19 press conference just now ran with a bright red banner uninterrupted on all news services for over an hour. If this crisis continues for 6 months could this damage an OLED screen? Possibly, based on this case.

If OLED technology is not suitable for watching such programs although watermarks and banners are now standard fair then it should be sold with a prominent warning, despite its superiority for other content. Of course, marketing blurbs will reduce this to the smallest font possible.

Of course, Burn-in for oleds is not covered by the LG warranty (probably most other manufacturers as well). Obviously they have no faith in the technology being able to cope with static images.
You are right about the 7 news. I skip ads and some news items that I have no interest in, so probably 25-35 minutes of the logo per day. It's ludicrous that that will cause the issue, but here it is (along with the minecraft HUD, near the bottom) -
Why is the inline image upside down

Here's an attempt at a plugin to cover the 7 News "watermark". Select "Bug Spray" from the BLUE extensions menu to turn it on and off. It will black out the logo (almost, I didn't scale it right). You might need to reposition it, which is currently done by manually editing /usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/BugSpray/skin.xml (takes effect next time you turn it on, restart not required).

Thanks Adoxa. Looks good.
It looks like 7 randomly changes the size of the logo during the broadcast, so I will play around with the png image to compensate.



ps... love the name

Yeah, I should have mentioned there are two: the main 7 NEWS one, then a slightly smaller 7 NEWS with com.au underneath.

Star6key wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 23:09

Why is the inline image upside down

No idea. The actual uploaded image is fine, and a screenshot that I just attached in another topic has its inline thumbnail the right way up.

prl wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:04

Star6key wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 23:09

Why is the inline image upside down

No idea. The actual uploaded image is fine, and a screenshot that I just attached in another topic has its inline thumbnail the right way up.

I suspect you had your phone upside down when you took the photo. The image has its EXIF rotation flag set to 180 degrees and it seems the flag is ignored when the inline image displayed.

blip wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:54

prl wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:04

Star6key wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 23:09

Why is the inline image upside down

No idea. The actual uploaded image is fine, and a screenshot that I just attached in another topic has its inline thumbnail the right way up.

I suspect you had your phone upside down when you took the photo. The image has its EXIF rotation flag set to 180 degrees and it seems the flag is ignored when the inline image displayed.

I always hold the phone on it's side when taking pics, but what you say makes sense.

adoxa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:42

Yeah, I should have mentioned there are two: the main 7 NEWS one, then a slightly smaller 7 NEWS with com.au underneath.

Oh yeah... It's funny the things you don't notice, until someone else points it out.

Any chance of including a selection list menu of different images that we can edit? There's a few things I'd like to block when watching certain shows/hdmi streams.

Star6key wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 14:19

I always hold the phone on it's side when taking pics, but what you say makes sense.

Getting very off topic but are you left handed? My Samsung phone (different model to yours) has an EXIF orientation of 0 degrees when the phone is on its side with the shutter button (bottom of the phone) on the right.

Star6key wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 17:50

Before anyone asks... it's definitely burn-in, not image retention as the other image is of the Minecraft HUD - specifically the red hearts near the bottom. I haven't played Minecraft in over 3 months.

Have you tried running a manual screen refresh from the TV's setup menu?
This operation will run a deeper refresh cycle than the regular 4-hour refresh.
I believe the manually activated cycle is more or less equivalent to the one that gets run every 2000 hours of operation.

blip wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 14:34

Star6key wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 14:19

I always hold the phone on it's side when taking pics, but what you say makes sense.

Getting very off topic but are you left handed? My Samsung phone (different model to yours) has an EXIF orientation of 0 degrees when the phone is on its side with the shutter button (bottom of the phone) on the right.

I'm a righty. I would normally hold it with the bottom of the phone to the right (screen facing me). I use the volume down button to take pictures.
Now stop it, before the 'off topic' police come a callin'.

Star6key wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 16:26

Now stop it, before the 'off topic' police come a callin'.

As far as I'm concerned this hasn't really gone much off topic. I do prefer that separate original technical issues have their own topic, though.

MrQuade wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 15:36

Star6key wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 17:50

Before anyone asks... it's definitely burn-in, not image retention as the other image is of the Minecraft HUD - specifically the red hearts near the bottom. I haven't played Minecraft in over 3 months.

Have you tried running a manual screen refresh from the TV's setup menu?
This operation will run a deeper refresh cycle than the regular 4-hour refresh.
I believe the manually activated cycle is more or less equivalent to the one that gets run every 2000 hours of operation.

Yep. 3 times in the last week. Can't really say it made much difference (but it wouldn't, if it's burn-in).
Supposedly every 2000 hours, you're supposed to get a notice to run the Pixel Refresher, but I've never seen it (tv has been on for 6800 hours... and no, not consecutively ). I had no idea it was supposed to be done.

prl wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 16:30

Star6key wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 16:26

Now stop it, before the 'off topic' police come a callin'.

As far as I'm concerned this hasn't really gone much off topic. I do prefer that separate original technical issues have their own topic, though.

Roger that.

Star6key wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 20, 2020 14:28

Any chance of including a selection list menu of different images that we can edit? There's a few things I'd like to block when watching certain shows/hdmi streams.

Here you go. Watermarks are now stored in /etc/enigma2/bugspray, using the format NAME--POSITION.png, where NAME is what you see in the list and POSITION is copied directly to the skin; the current maximum size is 200x200 (which just fits WIN Peach). I've supplied a new 7NEWS, along with WIN (HD, Peach & Bold, in both black and grey versions, although I don't think grey is any better) and SBS (for when it's letterboxed). They could probably all do with a bit of tweaking. It still requires manually turning on and off and currently only one image can be active at a time. However, it does remember which bugs have been chosen for which services, and they will appear first in the list. A future version may allow multiple images (in both senses, in that you could have images active on multiple services and multiple images on a single service) and automatically hide/show when the service changes.

Good stuff. Works like a charm.

One slightly annoying thing, which I don't think you can do anything about. When SBS Movies show ultra wide screen movies, they display the logo in the top black bar. I've created a completely black image to be displayed, but on screen, there is a thin white border around the image. This happens on all images, but isn't noticeable on non static black backgrounds. Mehhhhh...

Ah, that's the same thing happening with the SBS logos: they're black, but still have an outline. Just looks to be how the overlay is displayed, as there's no outline when black.mvi is used (showiframe /usr/share/enigma2/black.mvi).

I've discovered the image is not shown when subtitles are on, so I've had to adjust the zposition in the skin, but now that means the image shows up on top of other things (like the movie list). To compensate I've sized the skin the same as the image, removing the 200x200 limit. Not sure what else I can do about it.

adoxa wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 23, 2020 18:29

...
Not sure what else I can do about it.

Do nothing. Not worth the effort.
I'll live.

Here's the version that works with subtitles. I've also changed the config (from pickle to JSON), so you'll have to reselect. Removed the grey versions and tweaked Peach & Bold (although I've just discovered they're sometimes displayed at the top, too).

Thanks Adoxa.

I thought I remembered a plugin that did this, and rediscovered it today. It lets you move and resize, as well as set transparency and have multiple, but it's still black and has the outline (so nice to know it's not something I did). Could combine them, adding an image option to this one.

Had a look at the Antilogo plugin. Very handy. I like being able to change it/them on the fly. Very useful for covering up ticker items at the bottom of the epsn channels on kayo... not that sports is a 'thing' anymore.

Combining them would be great... if it's no trouble.
Any idea what the 'step' items are? They don't seem to do anything.

"Step +" moves/resizes in larger increments; "step -" reduces it. The increments are: 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200. I'll see about making the step size visible should I add logo images.

Ahhhh... Thanks Adoxa.

Ahh, thankfully the new RUSH logo is in translucent white, and not bright red as I was dreading!

MrQuade wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 06, 2020 17:51

Ahh, thankfully the new RUSH logo is in translucent white, and not bright red as I was dreading!

I'm sure that they can fix that

Here's a revamped AntiLogo. I've combined move/resize/color/step into a single modify, press HELP to see how it works. The white outline is gone, but one has been added during modify (so you can see black antilogos on a black screen). There are default antilogos for SBS HD/Viceland/World Movies, completely blacking out the logo for letterboxed pictures. There are default antilogos for WIN HD/Peach/Bold, dimming the logo (I'd appreciate feedback for Peach/Bold, as I'm not sure if the V2 needs to be moved up four pixels, or the T2 is wrong). You can choose your own images (PNG only), which get copied to /etc/enigma2/antilogo/. You can hide individual antilogos (e.g. have antilogos at the top and bottom, switch between them as needed).