Power Timers - Help

[Jeddie]

Hello all,
Thought I would try setting a Power Timer(s). I would like to put my U4 into Deep Standby every night and wakeup every afternoon.

Some questions;
1. Some timer types are 'Auto' (eg Auto Deep Standby) and some do not mention 'Auto' in the title? What is the difference? I read the definition on LH side of screen but didn't really understand?

2. I guess I need 2 timers? One to put it to sleep & one to wake it up?

3. My guess is I would set a 'Deep Standby' timer and not 'Auto Deep Standby'? And a 'Wakeup' Timer? Not 'Auto' type for either.

4. Why does my U4 already have a disabled 'Auto Deep Standby' timer? I did not set this?

5. What if a recording begins prior to my Deep Standby Timer is due to run? What will happen? Will the recording finish? Which has precedence? Recording or the Deep Standby?

6. What would happen if I set a recording after 'Deep Standby' timer? Will U4 wakeup & record? Then what? Go back to Deep Standby after recording?

7. Say the U4 goes into Deep Standby via the timer. But afterwards I need to turn it on for some reason? I guess I would just use the remote as normal & simply turn it on right?

[Jeddie]

+1 more question;

8. On activation of Wakeup timer, to what state does the U4 wakeup to? Does it wakeup to full operation? Or does it wakeup to Standby?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

1. Some timer types are 'Auto' (eg Auto Deep Standby) and some do not mention 'Auto' in the title? What is the difference? I read the definition on LH side of screen but didn't really understand?

'Auto' is based on there being no remote control usage for the specified period,

2. I guess I need 2 timers? One to put it to sleep & one to wake it up?

Yes, based on your stated objectives.

3. My guess is I would set a 'Deep Standby' timer and not 'Auto Deep Standby'? And a 'Wakeup' Timer? Not 'Auto' type for either.

Yes, sort of. Yes to 'Deep Standby', but not 'Wakeup' (to full running) use 'Wakeup to standby' instead.

4. Why does my U4 already have a disabled 'Auto Deep Standby' timer? I did not set this?

Firmware default. Feel free to delete it.

5. What if a recording begins prior to my Deep Standby Timer is due to run? What will happen? Will the recording finish? Which has precedence? Recording or the Deep Standby?

Recording will finish and the Power Timer will keep rolling back 5, 10, 20, then repeats of 30 mins until it can shutdown to deep standby once the recordings have finished.
Then, unfortunately due to a bug (IMO), the box will boot back up to standby somewhere between 5 and 30 mins later.

6. What would happen if I set a recording after 'Deep Standby' timer? Will U4 wakeup & record? Then what? Go back to Deep Standby after recording?

Yes. Except if the box booted due to the above bug, then it'll just stay in standby.

7. Say the U4 goes into Deep Standby via the timer. But afterwards I need to turn it on for some reason? I guess I would just use the remote as normal & simply turn it on right?

Yes.

+1 more question;

8. On activation of Wakeup timer, to what state does the U4 wakeup to? Does it wakeup to full operation? Or does it wakeup to Standby?

'Wakeup' is to full running. live TV, timeshifting, state.
'Wakeup to standby' puts the box to the standby state a few seconds after the Ui starts.

[Jeddie]

Well I set 2 power timers. 1 to put it to Deep Standby at midnight and 1 to wakeup at 5pm Mon-Fri.

The Deep Standby timer has not run a couple of times this week. When I get up in the morning, the U4 is either on full operation (blue light) or sometimes in Standby?

There have been no recordings set around midnight. Last night a recording was made and then deleted around 10pm.

Any ideas on why the Power Timer might not fire?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

The Deep Standby timer has not run a couple of times this week. When I get up in the morning, the U4 is either on full operation (blue light) or sometimes in Standby?

There have been no recordings set around midnight. Last night a recording was made and then deleted around 10pm.

Any ideas on why the Power Timer might not fire?

I'm guessing the "shutdown" Power Timer fired but couldn't action the shutdown to deep standby because you left the U4 showing a menu (e.g. media selection list).

Bring up the Power Timer list and press INFO on the timer - does it show it firing (activating state 1)?

[Jeddie]

Well the shutdown for last night (Tues) did not run. Instead U4 was sitting in Standby this morning.

I went into INFO for the relevant timer;

20190911_154913Resize.jpg

(3.6 MiB) Not downloaded yet

Any ideas?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

It looks like it didn't finish on Monday night as it only got to state 2, but did finish last night as it got to state 3 and then changed its start time for the next day.
If it didn't actually shutdown the box then that can be because there was a screen showing - be that a popup or media listing or main menu (even when put to standby, AFAIK).
edit - I got that bit wrong, going to standby with the media selection list or main menu showing doesn't prevent the shutdown to deep standby.
Are you sure there was nothing to power it up subsequently? Was there a recording running at 23:55?

[Jeddie]

Are you sure there was nothing to power it up subsequently? Was there a recording running at 23:55?

There were no recordings running. Even if a recording was running, shoudn't it still shutdown after a recording anyway?

It did shutdown last night (Wed). The only difference I can think of is sometimes the U4 status at 23.54 is 'Full operation" (blue light) and other nights it is sitting in Standby (red light).

[prl]

Are you sure there was nothing to power it up subsequently? Was there a recording running at 23:55?

There were no recordings running. Even if a recording was running, shoudn't it still shutdown after a recording anyway?

Yes, it should. What tends to hang power timers completely is if you're in a UI screen (or popup) that doesn't permit shutdown.

It did shutdown last night (Wed). The only difference I can think of is sometimes the U4 status at 23.54 is 'Full operation" (blue light) and other nights it is sitting in Standby (red light).

If you normally shut down completely when the PVR is not in use, then standby would indicate that a recording is likely in progress.

[Jeddie]

Are you sure there was nothing to power it up subsequently? Was there a recording running at 23:55?

There were no recordings running. Even if a recording was running, shoudn't it still shutdown after a recording anyway?

Yes, it should. What tends to hang power timers completely is if you're in a UI screen (or popup) that doesn't permit shutdown.

It did shutdown last night (Wed). The only difference I can think of is sometimes the U4 status at 23.54 is 'Full operation" (blue light) and other nights it is sitting in Standby (red light).

If you normally shut down completely when the PVR is not in use, then standby would indicate that a recording is likely in progress.

I'm pretty sure I didn't leave the U4 with a popup/Ui Screen. Whilst I might go into EPG or in this case the power timer > INFO, I always go back to live TV.

I'm confused with your final comment Prl? The only time I do a shutdown is via the Power timer. Other than that it is in Standby.

Anyway we'll see what happens tonight.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Are you sure there was nothing to power it up subsequently? Was there a recording running at 23:55?

There were no recordings running. Even if a recording was running, shoudn't it still shutdown after a recording anyway?

The Power Timer will keep rolling back and trying again through a progression of single intervals of 5, 10, then 20 mins, then finally repeat intervals of 30 mins until it can shutdown to deep standby.
If the recording finishes and the box shuts down due to the recording timer's after event action, and this happens whilst the Power Timer has rolled back, then the box will boot to standby at the time the Power Timer was to next attempt the rolled-back action. As I stated previously, I consider this a bug. The box will then just sit there in standby.
But that wasn't your situation, as you didn't have any recordings active at the time. I don't know why I asked you if you had, as if it were the case then there'd be entries in the Power Timer's log showing the rollback ('backoff: retry in {x} minutes'). I can't blame beer as I posted that question at 2:47 pm WST

It did shutdown last night (Wed). The only difference I can think of is sometimes the U4 status at 23.54 is 'Full operation" (blue light) and other nights it is sitting in Standby (red light).

I have Power Timers with a 'go to deep standby' action that will shut down the box whether in standby or full running state (as long as no screen or popup is showing).

Perhaps a background task was running at the time of the shut down action, such as AutoTimers or an online update check, as these will block the shut down because a popup will be displayed asking if you want to proceed even though a task is still running. Of course an unattended box won't get an answer to that popup

If you want this checked further, I think you'll have to enable debug logging. That way we might be able to identify what is stopping the shut down action.

[Jeddie]

If you want this checked further, I think you'll have to enable debug logging. That way we might be able to identify what is stopping the shut down action.

It didn't run again last night (Thurs)?

How do I invoke debug logging?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

If you want this checked further, I think you'll have to enable debug logging. That way we might be able to identify what is stopping the shut down action.

It didn't run again last night (Thurs)?

How do I invoke debug logging?

To enable debug logging, see this post.
What firmware are you running - what shows in MENU>>Information>>About>>Revision field?
If you're on the beta firmware of 20190630 or subsequent release then you can also enable debug logging in the 'System' setup.

I'm sure the cause can be identified if you enable debugging.
However, if you don't want to go down that path, dump the 23:55 shut down Power Timer and instead set a normal recording timer that accomplishes the same outcome - with attributes: repeats daily, start time 23:54, end time 23:55, recording location set for the trash directory, after event action of go to deep standby.
Or just shut down the box when you've finished with it for the night.

[Jeddie]

Firmware = 17.5.20190207 (17.5-819-gdd3f1fa)

In the post you linked to; What is > "Then also alter your smb_user.conf to have a share on that directory."
And how do I do this?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Firmware = 17.5.20190207 (17.5-819-gdd3f1fa)

Okay, 20190207 is the most recent public release.

In the post you linked to; What is > "Then also alter your smb_user.conf to have a share on that directory."
And how do I do this?

You'll already have an existing "system" Samba configuration file exporting the 'Movie' share, which is exporting the directory /media/hdd/movie and its sub-directories, and you'll have seen that on your PC.
The file mentioned in that linked post is the optional "user" extension to that existing Samba configuration. The smb_user.conf "user" file provides additional "exports" of any other shares on your Wiz that you want other networking clients, such as your computer, tablet, and phone to access.
Some people use it to export their attached USB drive(s), some to export the debug log directories (as suggested in that post), some to export the screenshots from the 'ShootYourScreen' plugin, and some to export the entire flash file system.

If you have enabled debug logging, then having access via Samba shares provides easy access to the logs.
But you may not need this Samba access if you'll just be requiring adhoc access to the logs, as you can copy the log files off to a USB thumb drive (or a PC share if setup) by using File Commander on the Wiz (MENU>>Sources / Files), or by using FTP access (assuming you've set a network password on the Wiz).

Regardless, I'll show you the contents for exporting the log and screenshots directories.
The default log location is in flash memory - /home/root/logs/. When enabling debug logging, some (most?) users change the 'Log location' directory to '/media/hdd' (resulting in logging to /media/hdd/logs/).
A sample user configuration file for the log and screenshots directories is -

Code: Select all

[Debug_Logs_HDD]
  comment = /hdd/logs
  path = /media/hdd/logs
  guest ok = yes
  read only = no
[Debug_Logs_Flash]
  comment = ~/logs
  path = /home/root/logs
  guest ok = yes
  read only = yes
[Screenshots]
  comment = /hdd/screenshots
  path = /media/hdd/screenshots
  guest ok = yes
  read only = no

Create this file on your PC and name it smb_user.conf (for firmware versions later than 20190207 the name slightly changes).
Copy the file to a USB thumb drive, then remove any '.txt' name extension that the editor may have put in the file name.
Sneaker-net the thumb drive to your U4 and plug it in.
Open File Commander (MENU>>Sources / Files).
For a copy operation, File Commander will copy the selected file(s) from the "active/current" pane to the location that is open in the "inactive/other" pane.
You use the PREV/NEXT keys to switch between the left/right panes.
Navigate one of the panes to Internal Flash, then 'etc', then 'samba' (directory /etc/samba/).
Navigate the other pane to open the USB drive.
Ensure the 'smb_user.conf' file is selected/highlighted in the current pane.
Press YELLOW to copy the file to the other pane (/etc/samba/). Reply yes to the copy prompt.
If the panes didn't dynamically update, then press the '0' key to refresh the display.
Exit back to the main menu. Go right to wrap-around to the Plugins column and select the SimpleUmount plugin and unmount the USB, and then remove it.

Wait about 30 seconds or so, and the exported shares should be available on your computer.

An alternative to using a USB drive is to copy the smb_user.conf file to the 'Movie' share, and then use File Commander to copy from there to /etc/samba/ - all of that can be be done using OpenWebif so you don't have to leave the computer

[prl]

Another alternative is to set a root login password in MENU>Setup>Network>Password and use your favourite FTP client to fetch files from the Beyonwiz using user name root an the password you set.

It's also possible to use the U*ix commands scp to do the copy, either using the root login password or public/private keys, but the latter is more complicated to set up if you're not already using ssh/scp public/private keys.

TMTOWTDI

[Jeddie]

But you may not need this Samba access if you'll just be requiring adhoc access to the logs, as you can copy the log files off to a USB thumb drive (or a PC share if setup) by using File Commander on the Wiz (MENU>>Sources / Files), or by using FTP access (assuming you've set a network password on the Wiz).

Grumpy Geoff - I've read your post multiple times and my head spinning.
I have a ‘movie’ share on my PC. Also I have Openwebif.

The ‘ad-hoc’ method looks simplest to me.
Can I leave the log in home/roots/logs and then copy the log to a USB thumb drive via File commander?

Or instead of USB you mention FTP access? Maybe that is easier for me? What is FTP and how would I use that? I don’t have network password on Wiz but am willing to do so.

Sorry for so many questions.

P.S. What is ‘Sneaker-net’?

[MrQuade]

Or instead of USB you mention FTP access? Maybe that is easier for me? What is FTP and how would I use that? I don’t have network password on Wiz but am willing to do so.

File Transfer Protocol. It's how we *used* to download practically everything on the Internet once upon a time .
You can perform simple transfers using any web browser by simply typing in the correct URL in the address bar.
ftp://root@beyonwizu4/

The network password is easy to set up from the setup menu.
MENU->Setup->Network->Password

P.S. What is ‘Sneaker-net’?

It's the network you use when you are not using a network.
ie. by using a USB drive, or a disk to move data between machines, you are bypassing any network connections and "sneaking" past firewalls and the like.

[Gully]

It's the network you use when you are not using a network.
ie. by using a USB drive, or a disk to move data between machines, you are bypassing any network connections and "sneaking" past firewalls and the like.

Just being picky the name comes from the stereotypical user walking the data from one machine to the others in their sneakers rather than any reference to firewalls.

[prl]

Yes, definitely a footware reference and way older than USB. The transport medium of the original sneakernet was more likely to be floppy disks.

Goes along with things like "never underestimate the bandwidth of a boy on a bicycle" and Andrew Tanenbaum's example of the bandwidth of a station wagon full of magnetic tapes vs the capability of the Internet of the time.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

The ‘ad-hoc’ method looks simplest to me.
Can I leave the log in home/roots/logs and then copy the log to a USB thumb drive via File commander?

Sure, using File Commander to copy to a USB thumb drive was one of the suggestions.
You can also use File Commander to copy the log file to the U4's recordings directory (/media/hdd/movie), and then use Windows File Explorer to grab it from there.

Or instead of USB you mention FTP access? Maybe that is easier for me? What is FTP and how would I use that? I don’t have network password on Wiz but am willing to do so.

Using web browser FTP access for pulling files off the Wiz is probably the simplest as you don't need to use a USB drive or File Commander.
Set the network password for the 'root' user account as shown by MrQuade.
Then, to go straight to the default logs directory, open this address in a browser - ftp://beyonwizu4/home/root/logs/ (at the prompt, enter 'root' for the user name and enter the network password you've set).
Then you can just click on a log file to download it to the computer (at least in Chrome, other browsers may require you to right-click the file name to download it to the computer [save link as...]).

[prl]

For a more modern take on sneakernet, the Event Horizon Telescope that recently imaged (the shadow of) the black hole in the centre of galaxy Messier 87, uses sneakernet for its data "networking":

Data collected on hard drives are transported by commercial freight airplanes (a so-called sneakernet) from the various telescopes to the MIT Haystack Observatory and the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy, where the data are cross-correlated and analyzed on a grid computer ...

And why:

Each telescope of the [eight telescopes in the] EHT produced enormous amounts of data — roughly 350 terabytes per day

The observation was for a week - so some 19000TB of data!

[IanB]

Also another modern sneakernet, Amazon's Snowball, an 80TB usb stick!