My picture freezes but sound continues , is that HDD or machine?

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:50

With the help of patient members of this forum I have solved all but one problem on my T2 and I am trying to decide if the remaining problem is likely to be HDD or machine related, so I know which to replace.

On every recording, at some point the video freezes but sound continues. I can keep watching but only by stepping forward past the problem which usually affects about a 30 second segment

Does that sound like HDD or machine?

adoxa · Post by **adoxa** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 13:16

You could probably rule out the HDD by checking it: MENU > Setup > Storage > File system check. You could perhaps try copying a recording (maybe use the Cutlist Editor to extract a portion, check the freeze still occurs with that) and play it on your computer.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 13:21

Thanks. I'll try the copy trick you suggested and see what happens, but my recordings always freeze same place if I look at the video again so I'm pretty sure it will do the same on PC playback of a copy.

As for disk check, that never works. It always tells me my disk is in use, even if I say it can stop my timeshift recording and there's nothing else recording

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 13:41

robbo wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 13:21
As for disk check, that never works. It always tells me my disk is in use, even if I say it can stop my timeshift recording and there's nothing else recording

There must be no open files or directories on /media/hdd (no active recordings, no active timeshift buffer recordings, no debug logging, no telnet/SSH sessions open on a directory in that mount).
So try manually disabling timeshift and zap to a new service to stop the timeshift accumulation. If debug logging is enabled then disable it and restart the GUI. If you have any Windows file explorer sessions of the T2 open then close them (I often have to stop Samba and reboot the Wiz as other Wizzes have grabbed a connection).
Then try the disk check again.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 13:55

robbo wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:50
On every recording, at some point the video freezes but sound continues. I can keep watching but only by stepping forward past the problem which usually affects about a 30 second segment

Every recording?
Or only the ones using the USB tuner? You can tell which tuner was used by looking in the log entries for the timer (press INFO on the timer), or by looking at the 5th line in the {recording file}.ts.meta file.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 14:16

I haven't checked which tuners are being used but this happens at least once on every recording.

I will retry the check as per your recommendation

Paul_oz53 · Post by **Paul_oz53** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 14:28

robbo wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 14:16
I haven't checked which tuners are being used but this happens at least once on every recording.

I will retry the check as per your recommendation

What is the signal strength and quality?

I have had the odd recording misbehave with what appears to be a glitch in the recording.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 14:51

Everyone has a section that fails. My signal strength is usually around 100 on one tuner and about 80 on the second.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 14:54

robbo wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 14:16
I haven't checked which tuners are being used but this happens at least once on every recording.

Hmm, every recording, so that probably rules out specific tuners then.
If you have a USB drive with enough free space for a couple of test recordings, even a thumb drive, attach it to the T2, and set a couple of recordings to go to that drive.
Then see if they have the video freezing issues.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 19:47

How do I record to a USB? Can I use the front port or does it need to be in the back port? I tried installing one in the front and setting up a recording but it doesn't seem to pick up that there's one in there? Do I need to format it? I am using a 16GB USB Stick that should be good for a few shows - should certainly highlight the problem.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 20:18

Back or front USB ports should make no difference.
Does it show up in MENU>>Information>>Devices?
Does it show up in File Commander?
The drive needs to be NTFS formatted to be able to record to it.
If it doesn't show up, reboot with it already inserted (particularly if you've not been using the SimpleUmount plugin to unmount USBs).

Timers have a "Location" so you can choose the thumb drive once it shows up.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 21:25

Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 20:18
Does it show up in MENU>>Information>>Devices?

YES

Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 20:18
Does it show up in File Commander?

YES

Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 20:18
The drive needs to be NTFS formatted to be able to record to it.

Re-formatted it to NTFS using Quick Format on my Windows Laptop

Grumpy_Geoff wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 20:18
If it doesn't show up, reboot with it already inserted

Rebooted
I even added it to my bookmarks but when I go to Timer Entry to edit an existing Waiting Timer and select the USB drive as Location, it doesn't show up as an option when I scroll through the optional locations

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 21:39

robbo wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 25, 2020 21:25
I even added it to my bookmarks but when I go to Timer Entry to edit an existing Waiting Timer and select the USB drive as Location, it doesn't show up as an option when I scroll through the optional locations

Press OK on Location in the Timer entry screen.
If you bookmarked the USB drive, then press CH- to drop to the Bookmarks selection list and select it, OK/GREEN.
If it doesn't show in the bookmarks, then in the top section navigate through a succession of "<Parent directory>" entries until you're back at the same list of locations as you'd see in the opening File Commander screen. Select the USB drive, press GREEN to add it as a bookmark and return with the location.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 21:56

Thanks. I've added a timer for a show that I would watch so now I will have to wait for it to record and to watch it. Thanks for your help so far.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 17:41

ok, I tried recording a movie on the memory stick and it worked without any freezing, though the quality or resolution doesn's seem as clear - maybe just my faulty perception. I am recording another movie to see but I assume there's a problem with the disc.

To further test I idisabled time shift and tried the File Check. The first two runs it went to 50/100 and returned to the menu. third, fourth and fifth times it went to 75/100 and returned to the menu, Does that mean it checked ok or does it mean it didn't complete properly indicating there's a problem with the HDD?

I can't recall exactly but I am pretty sure that the HDD I bought was a "Blue" HDD, not that, that means anything to me, but it may mean something to you.

Would I be wise to replace it with a SSD, something like a Samsung EVO 860 2TB or should I just stick to a HDD?

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 19:05

I'd try a few more recordings to be sure, do parallel recordings of the same program with one going to the thumb drive and the other going to the HDD. You'll have to have a slightly different time offset, by say 2 mins, otherwise the Wiz will ignore the 2nd timer as being a duplicate.
Then if you get the issue with the HDD recording but not the USB one then that could point to a drive/cable issue (may be even the mainboard socket).

I can't remember the exact stages of the file system check, from memory there are 4 (thus 25% each) -
1. unmount partition
2. check partition
3. ?
4. remount partition

Do you see it get to the remount step - it'll be very quick at that point. Keep your eyes glued.
I think if the filesystem check doesn't bark at you then it's clean.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 22:29

ok thanks. I'll ty the duplicate recording soon

I watched very closely but couldn't see any message after the 75/100 step so if its happening its faster than I can see,

Can I remove the HDD put it in an enclosure and run the machine without an interal HDD? If so, what are ramifications? If it works off the USB then maybe that will get around any internal connection problems. Is it a USB 2 or 3 port?

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 22:45

robbo wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 27, 2020 22:29
Can I remove the HDD put it in an enclosure and run the machine without an interal HDD? If so, what are ramifications? If it works off the USB then maybe that will get around any internal connection problems. Is it a USB 2 or 3 port?

Yes you can chuck the HDD into an enclosure and use the T2 that way. It should make no difference to the operation of the Wiz.
Both the front and rear ports are USB 2.0 speed, which is plenty fast enough.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 00:51

Good news, thanks. Is there any great trick to connecting it via USB, or will it auto detect the HDD is now in a different location?

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:14

robbo wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 28, 2020 00:51
Is there any great trick to connecting it via USB, or will it auto detect the HDD is now in a different location?

It'll be mounted as /media/hdd, the same as the internal drive was - as long as you've only got one internal/external storage drive detected at boot.

What drive do you currently have in the T2? What does OpenWebif's Box Info show for the hard disk model and capacity?
I ask because some drives (one?) have a Z-height of 15mm and won't fit in a normal HDD enclosure. The more common 9.5 mm drives won't be a problem.

My concern is whether the USB 2.0 port in the T2 will provide enough power to the HDD enclosure to run your drive. I don't think powered 2.5" HDD enclosures are a "thing".
You could take a risk and buy one and see.

An alternative, is to buy a 3.5" powered USB enclosure that can also take a 2.5" drive.
This example states it supports 2.5" -
https://www.msy.com.au/unitek-y-3035-25 ... -enclosure
This enclosure states it supports a 2.5" drive, but only in "dock" mode, not in "enclosure" mode, so I guess it depends if you're happy to have the case open or not -
https://www.msy.com.au/simplecom-se301- ... -enclosure
Since the PVR and enclosure won't be moved, perhaps the cover can just sit on top of the drive.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 16:50

The Bix Info says
ATA(WDC WD20NPVZ-00W)
1184.2 GB free / 1.8 TB ("2 TB") total (/media/hdd)

Looked up the specs and the dimensions are (if I looked up the right model). Not sure what Z height is but if it's the second number shown below then you're right, it's 15 and won't fit
Physical Dimensions
Height (in/mm max) 20.59/15
Length (in/mm max) 3.94/100.20
Width (in/mm max) 2.75/69.85
Weight (lb/g) 0.40/180

Now I am starting to introduce another complexity to fix this unit, a powered USB. Makes me wonder if I should just bite the bullet, bin it and buy a new unit. Will I have the same problems with a new unit and this drive? Should I get a USB 3.0 Enclosure if I buy a new drive and will this drive fit in a USB 3 enclosure? Am I better off replacing the HDD with a SSD?

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 17:26

robbo wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 28, 2020 16:50
The Bix Info says
ATA(WDC WD20NPVZ-00W)

Same as I fitted to my T2. Yep, 15mm drive height (Z-height).

For $23, I'd try the Simplecom SE301 from MSY (as the Unitek Y-3035 is out of stock). The drive height of the 2TB WD Blue shouldn't be an issue.

robbo wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 28, 2020 16:50
Now I am starting to introduce another complexity to fix this unit, a powered USB. Makes me wonder if I should just bite the bullet, bin it and buy a new unit. Will I have the same problems with a new unit and this drive? Should I get a USB 3.0 Enclosure if I buy a new drive and will this drive fit in a USB 3 enclosure? Am I better off replacing the HDD with a SSD?

You'll have the same issue trying to use that drive with a V2.

Paul_oz53 · Post by **Paul_oz53** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 19:13

Buying an empty USB enclosure assumes the HDD is good and the problem is internal to the T2. But, if it is internal there's a chance that replacing the sata/power connector might fix it. If it's the silicon at fault a new unit may become necessary if USB recording doesn't deliver.

If the HDD is defective then a new HDD or SSD will be needed. I don't have a strong view as to which is preferable were you to buy one.

Buying a USB 3 external HDD seems a good option overall. If it works with the T2 all is good. If the T2 dies it will be required for a V2. Only downside is not resolving if the existing HDD is still usable.

The alternative is to buy the enclosure and use it as an external HDD with the old or new HDD as the situation demands.

Whilst an enclosure is tidier, I can't see why a cheaper USB to HDD cable wouldn't work. EG. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-3-0-to- ... 890.l49292

Western Digital 2.5 inch drives appear to require less than 2 watts power. A USB 2 port should be good for 2.5 Watts.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 20:13

Paul_oz53 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 28, 2020 19:13
Buying an empty USB enclosure assumes the HDD is good and the problem is internal to the T2. But, if it is internal there's a chance that replacing the sata/power connector might fix it. If it's the silicon at fault a new unit may become necessary if USB recording doesn't deliver.

To my knowledge, only one test recording has been made to the thumb drive, and it was trouble-free.
Previously, I suggested the HDD cable may be the cause, but I don't know if it's been re-seated or swapped out.

Paul_oz53 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 28, 2020 19:13
Buying a USB 3 external HDD seems a good option overall. If it works with the T2 all is good. If the T2 dies it will be required for a V2. Only downside is not resolving if the existing HDD is still usable.

The alternative is to buy the enclosure and use it as an external HDD with the old or new HDD as the situation demands.

Whilst an enclosure is tidier, I can't see why a cheaper USB to HDD cable wouldn't work. EG. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-3-0-to- ... 890.l49292

Western Digital 2.5 inch drives appear to require less than 2 watts power. A USB 2 port should be good for 2.5 Watts.

If the T2's USB2.0 port will supply enough power for the 2TB WD20NPVZ, then this enclosure will have to be used as it accomodates the 15mm drive height -
https://www.msy.com.au/simplecom-se215- ... -enclosure

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:23

Paul_oz53 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 28, 2020 19:13
Whilst an enclosure is tidier, I can't see why a cheaper USB to HDD cable wouldn't work. EG. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-3-0-to- ... 890.l49292

Along that line, rather than wait for delivery, Robbo can go and get one today locally from, for example, MSY, Austin or PLE

MSY: $9 or $12 - https://www.msy.com.au/usb-sata-adapter

Austin: $13 - https://www.austin.net.au/simplecom-sa2 ... d-hdd.html
$15 - https://www.austin.net.au/usb-30-to-sat ... 5-hdd.html (only at Bibra Lake)

PLE: $16 - https://www.ple.com.au/Products/624915/ ... Hard-Drive

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Tue Dec 29, 2020 13:25

Thanks for your replies. I tried a second recording on the USB and it worked faultlessly. Today is a busy day but I want to try to reseat the connection to the HDD to see if that fixes the problem. In the meantime I will see if I can buy a USB Case or cable locally, Austin Computers is fairly close as is PLE.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 00:13

Well it was good while it lasted.

After all the changes I made to the Autotimers (all but one set to Not check Description for uniqueness), its been behaving brilliiantly. I didn't even need to change the HDD to USB. The spinner only came on for 5-10 seconds or so, and the recording was working well - until a few days ago. I didn't change a thing (actually I did add one autotimer a few weeks ago), however there are a lot more shows on that are set to record because the networks are bringing out new episodes.

So now the picture freezing is back, and the spinner sometimes comes on for 5 minutes, or until I do a hard reset. I've now bought the cable so I will be connecting the HDD via USB as soon as I get a chance but I thought I would ask if this could be a capactity limit. The Autotimer says there are about 70 timers set. Is that too many? I've sent the unit no Not Poll unless the unit is in sleep mode, so shouldn't that restrict the autotimer from running? If the unit is overloaded, based on what I've said, would the V2 be able to cope or am I simply asking too much of these units? It's just odd that the problems started again with no changes.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:34

I assume that's the "Only poll while in standby" setting. I'd have it enabled.
I don't believe the AutoTimer plugin is at issue here. I think the issue is likely either your HDD, SATA cable, or perhaps even the mainboard port.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:44

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for your feedback/

I have just started the process of converting the HDD to USB. For the moment I will not remove the HDD from its cradel but I have just plugged the HDD to the new USB connector I bought from Austin Computers (one recommended in this post) and plagged it into the USB port at the back of the device. However that meant I had to unplug the tuner that was running off that port.

Unfortunately the T2 only has one rear and one front USB and the cable for the tuner won't reach from the front USB to the antenna socket at the rear. Do you know if that tuner feeds info to the unit via USB or if the USB is just a power source? If the latter I can use another USB power source for the antenna, just for testing. Once I've proven it, I will use the front USB to power the HDD

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:00

robbo wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:44
Do you know if that tuner feeds info to the unit via USB or if the USB is just a power source?

It feeds data into the PVR via the USB port (as well as being powered from it). How else could it work?

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:01

You can either use a powered USB hub to connect to the rear port and plug the USB HDD and the tuner into it, or use a USB extension cable into the front port for the tuner.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:23

For testing purposes I found a USB extension lead so I have hooked the tuner to that. The unit started fine so now I will test a few recordings and see how it goes, however I feel like this unit is a lost cause.

From the day I bought this unit (refurbished) I have found unusual and eratic problems. I now know that many of those problems were me expecting too much, but the unit seems to be at fault too. From what I understand, the V2 is a much higher spec unit that should be more powerful and better able to cope with some of my excessive demands, not that I plan to go back to my bad ways, but a more forgiving unit may be advantageous

Brainz · Post by **Brainz** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 21:57

I bought my refurbished T2 at the start of 2017. I too hammer the poor little thing. It is recording nearly all the time and I am usually accessing those recordings at the same time. I use the internal drive as in place storage and it is nearly always full.

Running 17.5 firmware it has very few problems unless I stress it really hard. With 19.3 firmware I have had no end of issues (many spinner events and for some reason the internal tuners would start glitching) and always revert to the older version.

I am receiving a V2 this week and hope to prove to myself that most of my problems are a lack of horsepower. I can then retire the T2 to the less demanding role of replacing my trusty DP-P1.

Good luck!

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:16

Sounds like you've gone the same path as me, just a little ahead of me DP-P1 > T2 > not yet but likely soon.

Your comments make me realise that I am probably not asking too much in terms of the number of timers I have. I didn't think I was hammering my T2 but this forum has made me realise that I have been by the configuration options I was choosing. That aside, it's been a very erratic unit. I made the change suggested by connecting the HDD to an external USB and it so far appears, so far, to be running very well, but I want to give it more time.

Thanks for your feedback

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 16:55

Well, I have finally had enough of this unit and Monday I placed an order for a new V2.

However I am now wondering if the company is still operating. I placed the order, paid for it, got an acknowledgement of the order and an update from Australia Post to say "Shipping information received by Australia Post, Mon 19 Apr, 4:41pm". However that implies they just received the shipping information, and I've heard nothing since as to whether they actually received the unit. I tried sending an email to Beyonwiz, but no reply. I found a number on their web site but that just diverts to a message that says they're too busy to talk to me. Is Beyonwiz still operating or should I cancel my order and reverse the charge?

Rob

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 17:36

robbo wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 22, 2021 16:55
However I am now wondering if the company is still operating. I placed the order, paid for it, got an acknowledgement of the order and an update from Australia Post to say "Shipping information received by Australia Post, Mon 19 Apr, 4:41pm". However that implies they just received the shipping information, and I've heard nothing since as to whether they actually received the unit.

I think "Shipping information received by Australia Post, {date/time}" means the order was ready for Australia Post to collect it.
Does the Australia Post tracking details show the unit has been picked up?

robbo wrote: I tried sending an email to Beyonwiz, but no reply. I found a number on their web site but that just diverts to a message that says they're too busy to talk to me.

No phone contact -
"Get in touch
Technical Support
Please note that as of February 2021 all tech support must be submitted via the online support system, over the phone tech support will no longer be available."

Jai was last on this forum on Mar 16. Perhaps busy with his brewing business.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 17:40

robbo wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 22, 2021 16:55
"Shipping information received by Australia Post, Mon 19 Apr, 4:41pm". However that implies they just received the shipping information, and I've heard nothing since as to whether they actually received the unit.

I think it's less about Aust Post waiting to receive the unit, rather it is still waiting for Aust Post to go to the Beyonwix warehouse and pick it up. "Shipping Information Received" is basically notice that the unit is boxed and ready to go.

robbo wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 22, 2021 16:55
I tried sending an email to Beyonwiz, but no reply. I found a number on their web site but that just diverts to a message that says they're too busy to talk to me. Is Beyonwiz still operating or should I cancel my order and reverse the charge?

As I understand it, the phone is no longer used for support queries, and it is all via email only. That being said, I don't think the response via email is typically very quick either.

I think just waiting a bit longer is key here. It has only been a couple of business days since the unit was boxed and ready to go (basically close of business Monday). (Or perhaps postal patience is just ingrained in me being stuck out in WA!

)

robbo · Post by **robbo** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 19:42

Thanks for your reassurance. With so many scams now it's worrying. Even getting onto this web site was blocked by BidDefender and I had to over-ride.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 01:03

Australia Post tracking information can be less than accurate. I've had an item sent from Melbourne showing exactly the same as yours, even four hours after it has been delivered here in Sydney. I would not be too worried for about a week in a major city on east coast and two weeks elsewhere.

IanL-S · Post by **IanL-S** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 15:54

Yes, I have found Australia Post tracking information unreliable. To mitigate problems with scams, I always purchase via PayPal and with my Amex card (doubles the warranty). Only needed to claim once, when IceTV Mark 1 collapesed, with the purchase of Skippa - used the money to fund my move to Beyonwiz possibly including the U4.

Ian

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 19:07

The last time I sent a package by Australia Post, from Canberra to Melbourne, they were showing delivery expected that day, but also that the parcel was still in the post office in Canberra where I'd dropped it off.

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