Alternatives to T4 remote

[michal]

The "do what I mean, not what I say" button?

Exactly.. Still plenty of "be careful what you wish for" user cases come to mind

[prl]

Ah, the "do what I would have meant if I'd thought carefully about the consequences" button. That's a real challenge

[michal]

So already screams downstairs of "it doesn't work"!

Somehow he got some media menu on the screen and then switched to the TV device so none of the buttons worked anymore.

This is where remotes that have different functions for the same buttons depending on what you're doing fail with people like my father.

[MrQuade]

Somehow he got some media menu on the screen and then switched to the TV device so none of the buttons worked anymore.

It sounds like he might have activated HbbTV. That can happen if he accidently long-pressed the RED button on the remote.

With HbbTV active, you can end up with a live view of TV, but all button presses are intercepted by the HbbTV application, so it appears like all the buttons are broken. You can get out of it by just pressing "Exit" a couple of times normally.

[michal]

Well the Logitech remote is a failure.

EVERY morning I get woken up and asked to fix the broken system. Every morning there is a different problem. This morning the HDMI switch got out of sync. The remote HELP functionality is useless because my parents can't tell what's on or off just by looking at things. It's not always clear to me even.

My father straight out said that this is the most difficult to use system in 31 years (that's when we came to Australia).

I guess I've now painted myself into a corner :/

EDIT: I don't suppose there is a way for the OLED display at the front to say ON or OFF in huge letters?? My parents can't see what's there normally anyway.

[craigh]

Many years ago when my Dad was diagnosed with Dementia I tried to do something similar to what your doing now.

At the time it was all about recording TV on a VCR and then playing it back etc.

I ended up using a Pronto Remote and custom did the screens with NO options other than what was needed to operate.

All code had to leave the TV and other devices in a state that would try and ensure minimal issues.

There needed to be a button to FIX IT for them as well just in case. (Turned everything off and started again)

I found the discrete codes for all devices ON and OFF etc then wrote each macro to ensure it would operate in any state with delays etc.

The turning off macro needed to put things back in a given state and I had to determine what happened in power failure etc.

Not always as easy as it may seem.

Worked for Mum and Dad for many years till Dad forgot how to turn it on

I am not familiar with the Logitech remote at all as the Prontos I use give complete control to all buttons and code etc. In fact you get a blank screen to start with and you have to do it all.

Good luck but it can be done.

Took me many trips back and forward till I perfected it.

[michal]

I found the discrete codes for all devices ON and OFF etc then wrote each macro to ensure it would operate in any state with delays etc.

I believe that discrete codes would make things infinitely similar, but I'm almost certain that at the VERY least, the HDMI switch does not support discrete on/off IR codes.

Hindsight being 20/20 I would have researched that first.. I may still try to find another HDMI switch which is capable of this.

Thanks for your input and our situations are very similar except that I think my father is more wilfully ignorant than anything

[michal]

I just came across this interesting HDMI switch which is the first I've seen with optical inputs for each channel.

https://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch ... oslink.htm

Potentially I could then also use the internal TV tuner as well as the T4 which MAY make normal TV viewing simpler :/ I hate to go down this path though as it negates many of the advantages gained from the T4.

[craigh]

I found the discrete codes for all devices ON and OFF etc then wrote each macro to ensure it would operate in any state with delays etc.

I believe that discrete codes would make things infinitely similar, but I'm almost certain that at the VERY least, the HDMI switch does not support discrete on/off IR codes.

Hindsight being 20/20 I would have researched that first.. I may still try to find another HDMI switch which is capable of this.

Thanks for your input and our situations are very similar except that I think my father is more wilfully ignorant than anything

I have a simple hdmi switch that has discrete input codes but not on off,

Have never turned it off and i think default state when power lost and starts again can be determined. Also most auto detect active signal

[michal]

I have a simple hdmi switch that has discrete input codes but not on off,

Have never turned it off and i think default state when power lost and starts again can be determined. Also most auto detect active signal

That's exactly what I have, but it doesn't detect active inputs even though it's supposed to (though the TV not having HDMI-CEC support MAY be the culprit).

I actually used to leave it on all the time but then I discovered that after a few days it froze. Don't know if that was bad luck or something that happens if it's on too long.. Certainly something worth trying (i.e. eliminating HDMI switch power toggle altogether). Thanks for pointing it out.

[michal]

Hang on.. Can Logitech Harmony software even accept typed IR codes? Learn IR only learns from an existing remote.

Can't seem to find a way to enter the code manually.

[MrQuade]

The harmony can only learn from an existing remote. There is no manual code entry option.

You can get Logitech to add it to the database if you can supply them with the codes though.

I used a Pronto to teach my Harmony how to use the T4's discrete on/off codes after manually entering the codes into the Pronto. These discrete on/off codes for the T series are still under development, so not something that is ready for general use yet.

[michal]

So I guess I'm stuck back where I was initially then :/ There appears to be a way to add Pronto codes to the Harmony but it's INCREDIBLY complicated.

No use me sending the codes to Logitech as I have no idea if they work in the first place :/

EDIT: Unfortunately it seems that although there is a TINY difference in the Pronto codes I found once converted to the Harmony codes the software considers them identical and one overwrites the other

These are the Pronto codes I found for the TV and here are the instructions on how to use them (and other explicit codes that aren't learned):

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Harmony-R ... d-p/406224

Pioneer On:
0000 0067 0000 0022 0155 00AC 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0068

Pioneer Off:
0000 0067 0000 0022 0155 00AC 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0068

EDIT2: F**king HELL. It's even more stupid than conceivable. Both discrete codes work, however it's impossible to add both of them because even if you supply different names (PowerOn and PowerOff) they replace each other. Only the last added code appears :/ AAARRGGHH!!! I guess I can submit them to logitech, but this totally doesn't make sense.

[MrQuade]

EDIT2: F**king HELL. It's even more stupid than conceivable. Both discrete codes work, however it's impossible to add both of them because even if you supply different names (PowerOn and PowerOff) they replace each other. Only the last added code appears :/ AAARRGGHH!!! I guess I can submit them to logitech, but this totally doesn't make sense.

That doesn't sound right. I have added plenty of custom learned codes on my Harmony units and they never overwrote each-other?

What method are you using to add them manually? (mine were all learned off IR).

[MrQuade]

I did find a tool that apparently lets you program the codes called Concordance. Is that what you used?

It might be that Concordance has some bugs if that is the case.

An if that is the case, and you want a workaround, I would recommend that you teach to the codes to one of your Harmony units first, and then use that Harmony to teach the codes via IR to the other using the normal method.

Of course, if you have verified the codes, then you can just send them to Logitech to add to the database too, but that will take longer.....

[michal]

The only method possible for codes that aren't on any remote:

http://members.harmonyremote.com/EasyZa ... frared.asp

As described by following:

http://members.harmonyremote.com/EasyZa ... frared.asp

I don't know if it's the similarity of codes that's causing them to overwrite or some sort of bug in the way it's adding them to the online account. I just know that I can have either/or PowerOn/PowerOff but not both. Have not tried adding a completely different code to see if that makes a difference.

[michal]

I did find a tool that apparently lets you program the codes called Concordance. Is that what you used?

It might be that Concordance has some bugs if that is the case.

An if that is the case, and you want a workaround, I would recommend that you teach to the codes to one of your Harmony units first, and then use that Harmony to teach the codes via IR to the other using the normal method.

Of course, if you have verified the codes, then you can just send them to Logitech to add to the database too, but that will take longer.....

I saw Concordance mentioned while searching for a solution but have not tried it yet.

Your idea for teaching my other Harmony remote and then learning from that is a brilliantly simple workaround and I don't know why I didn't think of it myself Thank you!

[michal]

The Harmony software is a HORROR.

The idea of teaching one remote so that it can teach another was great... But the Harmony software makes it excessively difficult to have more than one remote. you need one account per remote as if people didn't ever need more than one remote per household :/

I've started drinking just to keep myself from breaking the remotes. Or something else..

[MrQuade]

The newer software is better on that point at least. You can have a dozen remotes on one account.

[michal]

LOL... Since the other remote was already controlling the newer Pioneer it turns out I had already figured out how to add the discrete codes to that years ago.. Wasted frustration..

Now.. Ready or not.. Tell me more about the discrete T4 codes and the problems with them??

BTW, I noticed that on a very recent (perhaps not current but it's what's on my T4 now) beta build the up and down arrows don't work in the channel/epg setups (perhaps others too).. Were you aware of this? Or has it already been fixed in an update?

[michal]

The Harmony software is driving me insane!

How can I add a hard button for power toggle of a device so that it doesn't automatically get turned on when you enter the activity? I just want the power toggle to be available in that activity.. There seems to be no way of doing this.. If you add a device to an activity (so that you can add one of its buttons then it FROCES you to turn it on when you start the activity).

EDIT: I'm attempting the ultra unintuitive method of setting the device to always be on when I mean I always want it to be off (unless the user toggle the power).. I hate this software.

[MrQuade]

How can I add a hard button for power toggle of a device so that it doesn't automatically get turned on when you enter the activity? I just want the power toggle to be available in that activity.. There seems to be no way of doing this.. If you add a device to an activity (so that you can add one of its buttons then it FROCES you to turn it on when you start the activity).

What device? Is this the HDMI switch? You can set the device properties such that "This device is always on". That way, no power commands will be automatically sent to it now matter what activity it is in.

The theory is, that if the device is not in the activity, then you don't need to control it while in the activity.

[michal]

How can I add a hard button for power toggle of a device so that it doesn't automatically get turned on when you enter the activity? I just want the power toggle to be available in that activity.. There seems to be no way of doing this.. If you add a device to an activity (so that you can add one of its buttons then it FROCES you to turn it on when you start the activity).

What device? Is this the HDMI switch? You can set the device properties such that "This device is always on". That way, no power commands will be automatically sent to it now matter what activity it is in.

The theory is, that if the device is not in the activity, then you don't need to control it while in the activity.

Actually in this case I want to program an unused button to power toggle a fan. As described above I've set it to be always on when I actually want it to be always off. Crappy software design that it doesn't make it obvious that black can be white or vice versa. They abandoned that software YEARS ago and it shows.

EDIT: And yes, I also set the HDMI switch to always on when I actually mean that. So long as it doesn't freeze (like it has once in the past) and once I have discrete codes for the T4 set ups it should be possible to always get the system back to the desired state.

[MrQuade]

Actually in this case I want to program an unused button to power toggle a fan. As described above I've set it to be always on when I actually want it to be always off. Crappy software design that it doesn't make it obvious that black can be white or vice versa. They abandoned that software YEARS ago and it shows.

The new software still uses the same terminology, but the effect is the same.
A better description would simply be "Do not automatically control power for this device" and leave it at that.

I think my long years in systems engineering have just given me blind spots to crappy software tools, and I naturally see the workarounds these days

[michal]

Actually in this case I want to program an unused button to power toggle a fan. As described above I've set it to be always on when I actually want it to be always off. Crappy software design that it doesn't make it obvious that black can be white or vice versa. They abandoned that software YEARS ago and it shows.

The new software still uses the same terminology, but the effect is the same.
A better description would simply be "Do not automatically control power for this device" and leave it at that.

I think my long years in systems engineering have just given me blind spots to crappy software tools, and I naturally see the workarounds these days

I have the opposite problem. I always seen the problems even when other people can't. Might be something to do with my original software development oriented education. Wish I had actually ended up going into that field rather than random barely related stuff.