Tivo Skin for T2 T4

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snb41
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Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by snb41 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:34

Hi All,
I purchased a T2 for my mum a few weeks ago as she has been using a Tivo but that is winding up as we all know. I have been using T4 and T2s for some time now and love them, they are leaps ahead of the Tivo but was looking for a way to slide it in to my mums without flipper her out :lol:

I have come across some Tivo like skins on one of the UK forums and installed them onto my T4, they mostly work ok but there are a few bugs, it would be great for ex Tivo users if this skin could be fixed, I imagine that Beyonwiz would benefit greatly from it also as there are about to be some Tivo users looking for a new solution. I have posted some screenshots below.

I see also that some Tivo users on whirlpool are talking about hacking solution to keep the Tivo working, maybe if this skin could be fixed up they may not have a need :D
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1_0_1_421_420_1012_EEEE0000_0_0_0.jpg
1_0_1_421_420_1012_EEEE0000_0_0_0 (1).jpg
1_0_1_421_420_1012_EEEE0000_0_0_0 (2).jpg
1_0_1_421_420_1012_EEEE0000_0_0_0 (3).jpg
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by IanSav » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:39

Hi Snb41,

If you can list/explain what is broken I may be able to help. First of all, where can this skin be found?

@Moderators: Please move this thread to the Skins area of the forum.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by snb41 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 13:43

IanSav wrote:Hi Snb41,

First of all, where can this skin be found?


Regards,
Ian.
The skins can be found here: https://linuxsat-support.com/board/1462-kiddac-skins/

The one in the pics is V-Skin Bolt but I have tried all his skins and the work mostly but some menus are broken, Information menu for instance is fully broken. I think that the info bar in the Tivo skin does not show current program info bun in some of his other skins it does, I think if you download and install you will see pretty quickly the issues.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by IanSav » Mon Apr 03, 2017 14:01

Hi Snb41,

I will grab the skins and have a look as time permits. The issues you describe align, in reverse, with the issues I noted in porting OverlayHD to OpenViX and Enigma2 in general.

I assume that you would like me to work on the Bolt skin? If not this one please nominate a specific skin to be converted.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by snb41 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 15:54

Cool thanks Ian. Yes the bolt one would be a great :D
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by IanSav » Mon Apr 03, 2017 16:01

Hi Snb41,
snb41 wrote:Cool thanks Ian. Yes the bolt one would be a great :D
I have the Bolt skin downloaded on both my OpenViX and Beyonwiz boxes. It will take some time but I will look at getting it running on the Beyonwiz.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:49

I'm not really convinced that a "looks like a TiVo, but don't behave like one" skin is a good idea, but clearly there are folk who think it is...
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by IanSav » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:36

Hi Prl,
prl wrote:I'm not really convinced that a "looks like a TiVo, but don't behave like one" skin is a good idea, but clearly there are folk who think it is...
I am testing the skin on my OpenViX system and I tend to agree. There is imagery to make the screens look like what I assume is a TiVo but most of displayed controls are inactive. I suspect that this skin may trigger more frustration than comfort.

Perhaps Snb41 should weigh in to confirm that a conversion effort is warranted.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Tue Apr 04, 2017 13:19

IanSav wrote:... There is imagery to make the screens look like what I assume is a TiVo but most of displayed controls are inactive. ...
:shock:

That's even worse than I thought!
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by ljk2000 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 17:21

IanSav wrote:
Perhaps Snb41 should weigh in to confirm that a conversion effort is warranted.

Regards,
Ian.
My mum is use to the Tivo Guide and use to the My Shows so it ticks boxes already as she is use to the look of those those things, I get that it will take a whole heap of work to get working anywhere near the same as the Tivo and don't expect you to do that.

I was kind of hoping that if the screens that don't work like the info screens and the EPG data not showing in the infobar are easy enough to get working it would be working just the same as the standard beyonwiz skin, this may then entice one of the hacker types from Tivo land to come over and make it work closer to a Tivo box :P I see over at whirlpool there is a topic about hacking the Tivo to keep it alive, I have seen the light with the Beyonwiz, I think that their efforts would be better spent on a platform that seems to be built for hackers :D Don't sweat to much on it though Ian, I appreciate you taking a look already.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Tue Apr 04, 2017 18:23

I thought that IanSav was saying that the TiVo skin for Beyonwiz showed TiVo-like controls that don't have any function (and possibly can't in the current firmware).

And his most recent tests were with OpenViX firmware, which the TiVo skin should "just work" on.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by snb41 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 18:40

prl wrote:I thought that IanSav was saying that the TiVo skin for Beyonwiz showed TiVo-like controls that don't have any function (and possibly can't in the current firmware).

And his most recent tests were with OpenViX firmware, which the TiVo skin should "just work" on.
I think that Ian is referring to the icons in the menus, if you have a look at the 4th image I posted it has Action & Adventure - Comedy etc.. These don't do anything just part of design and I think they could easily be deleted.. Anyhow I will leave it up to Ian if he wants to invest anytime on it, I understand either way.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by IanSav » Tue Apr 04, 2017 19:25

Hi,

Here is an image of the main menu (on OpenViX)...
TivoMain.jpg
vskin-bolt skin...
None of the buttons at the top of the screen work. They are just eye candy. The RIGHT arrow icons on the menu items are also eye candy and is not what happens if you press the RIGHT arrow button. In the conversion most of these menu screens will be lost and become very Beyonwiz-ish. (The Beyonwiz Main and Setup menus are hard coded.)

Having had a look around this skin I don't see a return on the investment of making it work on the Beyonwiz. Further I feel that TiVo users would probably become *more* frustrated that things may look familiar but work in a completely different way. I suspect that TiVo users will be better off going through a short term learning curve pain and become familiar with their new device. Perhaps Jai could be encouraged to make some new videos specifically for TiVo users showing how to adapt what they know on TiVo into what they need to know on the Beyonwiz.

If people still want a conversion I will make the effort but I want to be sure that at the end of what looks like a lot of effort that it won't become a waste of time.

Thoughts?

EDIT: If it would help people decide on what they want I am open to capturing more screen grabs of specific areas of the UI. (In my opinion they mostly look like a dumbed down Beyonwiz UI.)

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by johoo » Wed May 10, 2017 23:56

I do not see how a skin which provides a Tivo-like appearance could be a benefit, but as one who installed a T4 during the last week, let me offer some impressions.

Tivo has a limited set of management methods:

- toggle a button to get in/out of a function (e.g. GUIDE/GUIDE)
- press a button to jump out of one function to another (e.g. GUIDE/MENU, MENU/LIVETV)
- multiple choices via menus with up/down navigation
- left/right buttons to navigate backwards/forwards through functions
- EXIT is seldom required

T4 has a surfeit of management methods:

- there is no way to toggle in/out of a function, have to EXIT (with one exception)
- there is no way to 'jump' between functions, have to EXIT one to begin another
- multiple choices via menus with up/down navigation
- multiple choices via RED, GREEN, YELLOW and BLUE buttons
- OK can choose an action
- GREEN can choose an action
- Where BACK seems a natural choice it does nothing and EXIT has to be used
- Have yet to find something unique that NEXT/PREVIOUS are used for

I have not explored scheduling a recording because after reading what can/cannot be done with T4's EPG I decided to go with ICE as the best way to obtain Tivo's Season Pass and Wishlist capability.

Despite all the management buttons there is no way to scroll through a long list (e.g. shows to be recorded), you have to UP/DOWN each entry.

Recorded programmes are usually listed in the movie directory in order of recording, but the series2folder extension merges them into sub-directories with the show title. It is not as smooth as grouping on the Tivo but meets the goal. The number of entries in a sub-directory is an unknown, you cannot tell if it has contents or not until you open it.

OK/BACK works fine to choose/return from a sub-directory but NEXT/PREVIOUS also kinda works, though choose/return requires NEXT/NEXT and not NEXT/PREVIOUS. Note: NEXT/NEXT is an inconsistency, it is the only management toggle I have encountered so far.

The T4 toggles PLAY/PAUSE. It is not for lack of buttons, PLUGIN is rarely needed and duplicates what is easily accessible with MENU/Setup/Plugins.

Harmony users sought codes for discrete OFF and ON and they were incorporated into a release. It surprised me that there is no extension which generates codes for discrete PLAY and PAUSE.

There is no way to limit the number of recordings for a programme. On the Tivo we record news and sporting events with a limit on the number of each to retain. What I have read about a T4 extension to delete recordings has not inspired enough confidence to try installing it.

The T4 tuners are pitiful. Channel 10 comes in at 97% on Tivo and is only 57% on T4 so we see severe pixelation in good weather (who knows how bad it will get in bad weather). ABC comes in at 84% vs Tivo at 100%. There are many repeating stations, and it may be that CH10/T4 is a weak repeater compared to CH10/Tivo. Our Tivos have identified as many as four frequencies for the same channel, so you can select the best. I can find no way on the T4 to identify the frequency used by a channel, or any way to change it.

Tivo ANZ crippled the Skip function and the T4 has a multitude of variations.

The T4 puts an end to recording conflicts and clipped recordings.

The Wish List for what this long term Tivo user would like to see in the T4:

- Add frequency lists for each channel and let the user choose which one to use
- Add a way to limit the number of recordings for a show
- Add a way to scroll pages which have long lists of entries
- Assign discrete PLAY and PAUSE codes
- Store deleted programs in a directory which permits recovery

I like the T4, it is a modern platform capable of more functions than a Tivo.

I too would prefer that the adherents working on a way to keep the Tivo alive after October redirect their energies e.g. develop a complementary management method for the TV which used menu navigation and implicit EXITs.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by MrQuade » Thu May 11, 2017 00:34

johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
Despite all the management buttons there is no way to scroll through a long list (e.g. shows to be recorded), you have to UP/DOWN each entry.
The LEFT and RIGHT arrow buttons will scroll through lists of timers and files and function as PGUP and PGDN functions. The CH+/CH- keys are for PGUP and PGDN in the setup menus (LEFT and RIGHT cant be used there as they are used for settings toggling).
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
Recorded programmes are usually listed in the movie directory in order of recording, but the series2folder extension merges them into sub-directories with the show title. It is not as smooth as grouping on the Tivo but meets the goal. The number of entries in a sub-directory is an unknown, you cannot tell if it has contents or not until you open it.
This has been brought up a few times in the Series2Folder thread and in it's own thread. It is mainly because it would slow things down to an absolute crawl to have the media player count the number of recordings in folders and sub folders (and sub sub etc), when you have a LOT of recordings and/or folders.
If you have any good suggestions, then I am sure they would be welcomed and considered though.
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
The T4 toggles PLAY/PAUSE. It is not for lack of buttons, PLUGIN is rarely needed and duplicates what is easily accessible with MENU/Setup/Plugins.

Harmony users sought codes for discrete OFF and ON and they were incorporated into a release. It surprised me that there is no extension which generates codes for discrete PLAY and PAUSE.
This has also been requested, but was not an straightforward one to implement either.
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
There is no way to limit the number of recordings for a programme. On the Tivo we record news and sporting events with a limit on the number of each to retain. What I have read about a T4 extension to delete recordings has not inspired enough confidence to try installing it.
You can check out this thread for a partial solution there. There are some scripts you can run to more or less reproduce that function.
It may be possible to bake thins function into the Series2Folder plugin at some point if you can get prl excited about the idea ;).
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
The T4 tuners are pitiful. Channel 10 comes in at 97% on Tivo and is only 57% on T4 so we see severe pixelation in good weather (who knows how bad it will get in bad weather). ABC comes in at 84% vs Tivo at 100%. There are many repeating stations, and it may be that CH10/T4 is a weak repeater compared to CH10/Tivo.
The tuners on the T4 are actually pretty good, but the strength value is not to be used as an accurate guide of the *actual* strength, it is just a good indication of strength relative to each service.
You also want to be careful of feeding too much signal to the T4 tuners as well. Too much signal will very quickly affect signal quality as the tuner is being overdriven. What quality values are you seeing at those signal levels?
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
Our Tivos have identified as many as four frequencies for the same channel, so you can select the best. I can find no way on the T4 to identify the frequency used by a channel, or any way to change it.
The frequency of a service is visible in the infobar when you are viewing Live TV on that service. It is right at the bottom of the Infobar, so if you can't see it, check to make sure your TV isn't overscanning and clipping the bottom of the picture off.

Any duplicate services *should* appear in your Terrestrial TV LCN bouquet as having channel numbers above 300.
If you receive multiple signals from different towers, then you may want to look at manually scanning instead of relying on the automatic location scan.

johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
- Store deleted programs in a directory which permits recovery
Deleted recordings are put into a Trash directory in the root directory of your recording location. They are kept there for 8 days by default before being purged.
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
I too would prefer that the adherents working on a way to keep the Tivo alive after October redirect their energies e.g. develop a complementary management method for the TV which used menu navigation and implicit EXITs.
This has also been requested several times, but has not been an easy one to actually do with the way the menus work on the T series. However, apparently the newer firmware may be capable of this type of operation according to IanSav, so perhaps there is hope yet. (though that particular post talks about a single EXIT to back out of nested menu structures, the concept is similar).

It does however, get very tricky to do things like this. The buttons often do different things in different contexts. The MENU button for example, is not just used to bring up the main menu, but also can be used to bring up sub menus within other screens. I am not sure what other contexts the EPG, MEDIA and TIMER buttons are used in across the interface off the top of my head, but it may be possible to make them fixed-function buttons.

You can also run into some bugs when navigating straight between items, as evidenced by this timeshift error that came about from exiting a movie playback in a non-conventional way. Changing anything in the way that the UI is handled can lead to unexpected results :-/
Last edited by MrQuade on Thu May 11, 2017 01:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by adoxa » Thu May 11, 2017 12:17

MrQuade wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 00:34
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
Recorded programmes are usually listed in the movie directory in order of recording, but the series2folder extension merges them into sub-directories with the show title. It is not as smooth as grouping on the Tivo but meets the goal. The number of entries in a sub-directory is an unknown, you cannot tell if it has contents or not until you open it.
This has been brought up a few times in the Series2Folder thread and in it's own thread. It is mainly because it would slow things down to an absolute crawl to have the media player count the number of recordings in folders and sub folders (and sub sub etc), when you have a LOT of recordings and/or folders.
I proposed one method, which provides the same count as if you moved into the directory (i.e. it doesn't recurse into subdirectories). It will suffer from slow-down on large directories, although such directories can be excluded. I had plans for a "quick scan" option, but I don't need it and received no feedback so have yet to implement it.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Thu May 11, 2017 12:31

MrQuade wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 00:34
...
johoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 23:56
There is no way to limit the number of recordings for a programme. On the Tivo we record news and sporting events with a limit on the number of each to retain. What I have read about a T4 extension to delete recordings has not inspired enough confidence to try installing it.
You can check out this thread for a partial solution there. There are some scripts you can run to more or less reproduce that function.
It may be possible to bake thins function into the Series2Folder plugin at some point if you can get prl excited about the idea ;).
...

Series2Folder is Open Source. If anyone capable is willing to implement that function, I'd be happy to look at it with an eye to adding it.

It should be noted, though, that Series2Folder doesn't currently care (or even look at) what's in the destination folders for the moves. It just makes sure the folders are created if they're needed.

You may also want to look at the seriesplugin plugin, which seems to be a more comprehensive tool than Series2Folder, and might do what's needed. I never did more than just poke around a bit in it, so I have no idea how well (or even if) it works.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by johoo » Thu May 11, 2017 15:00

I very much appreciate your detailed reply.

> The LEFT and RIGHT arrow buttons will scroll through lists of timers
> and files and function as PGUP and PGDN functions.

Duh! I never tried that pairing.

> ...number of entries...has been brought up a few times in the Series2Folder thread...

If 99% of a feature can be satisfied with a KISS solution, the other 1% gilds the lily to the point of requiring a complex implementation. 100% for me would be a directory empty/not empty flag as of the last time the T4 went into Standby. The trawling would have to be done before entering Standby and if there is no way to delay Standby until completed, then trawl at an arbitrary time of day. I anticipate the first objection would be that 'your' arbitrary TOD is not 'my' arbitrary TOD, and the gilding would begin by requiring that the time has to be made selectable.

> ...discrete PLAY and PAUSE...has also been requested, but was not
> an straightforward one to implement either.

Unfortunate.

> ...no way to limit the number of recordings ...It may be possible
> to bake this function into the Series2Folder plugin at some point
> if you can get prl excited about the idea ;).

That will have to wait until I know enough to propose an approach.

> ...the tuners...What quality values are you seeing at those
> signal levels?

The RH corner shows the following for Tuner A and for comparison have included the frequency and rating of a Tivo:

T4 Tivo
Ch2 21/84 226.5 543.5 95
Ch3 24/92 184.5 557.5 93
Ch7 22/86 177.5 529.5 93
Ch9 14/85 191.625 564.5 85
Ch10 0/53 219.5 550.5 92

> Any duplicate services *should* appear in your Terrestrial TV LCN
> bouquet as having channel numbers above 300.

I have sets of duplicates.

> If you receive multiple signals from different towers, then you may want
> to look at manually scanning instead of relying on the automatic location scan.

Will pursue that approach later today.

> Deleted recordings are put into a Trash directory in the root directory of
> your recording location. They are kept there for 8 days by default...

Thanks.

> ...develop a complementary management method for the TV which used menu
> navigation and implicit EXITs...the newer firmware may be capable of this
type of operation according to IanSav, so perhaps there is hope yet.

It would be a heroic effort to accomplish before Oct 1.

> You can also run into some bugs when navigating...

Encountered one already doing something 'normal', but could not remember the sequence to duplicate it. The error message mentioned a log, which I did not find in my brief look for it.

BTW, there are two assigned codes for LAST and ZAP HISTORY. Where are they used and what do they do?

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by MrQuade » Thu May 11, 2017 15:50

johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 15:00

Encountered one already doing something 'normal', but could not remember the sequence to duplicate it. The error message mentioned a log, which I did not find in my brief look for it.
Not quite what I meant. What you just encountered is a GUI crash. The crashlog file will have been saved in your /home/root/logs directory. You should post that to the forums for someone to investigate further.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Thu May 11, 2017 16:12

johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 15:00
... BTW, there are two assigned codes for LAST and ZAP HISTORY. Where are they used and what do they do?

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. The KEY_LAST keycode corresponds to the BACK button. Where it's meaningful, KEY_PREVIOUS and KEY_NEXT (PREV and NEXT remote buttons) enter the Zap History list (history of channel changes). The actions performed by those buttons changes according to the context.

For example, in live TV, BACK goes to the previously viewed channel. In the media selection list (MEDIA from live TV), BACK changes directory up one level (opens the parent directory). In live TV, PREV and NEXT do as above. While watching a recording they skip forward and back between bookmarks.

In most screens, pressing HELP gives a guide to what the buttons do. Except for HELP, UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT OK and EXIT, pressing a button in the help screen will take you to the description of what the button does, if it does something in that screen. If it doesn't do anything you get the Unhandled Key popup. Pressing HELP in the help screen will tell you about how to use the help function.
johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 15:00
OK/BACK works fine to choose/return from a sub-directory but NEXT/PREVIOUS also kinda works, though choose/return requires NEXT/NEXT and not NEXT/PREVIOUS. Note: NEXT/NEXT is an inconsistency, it is the only management toggle I have encountered so far.

If you're talking about the media selection screen, the behaviour of NEXT/PREV is quite complicated and you probably haven't see the full behaviour (e.g. their behaviour depends on whether the item in focus is playable or not, e.g. whether it's a recording or directory).

The remote key usage in the Beyonwiz (actually, in the enigma2 PVR firmware generally) is quite ad hoc, and there is no UI design guide to tell developers what the most logical choices for button assignments are.

The Beyonwiz isn't a TiVo, and making its UI behave more like one would require a very large effort, make it much more difficult to get updates from other enigma2 development efforts, and it still wouldn't be a TiVo. Just changing the skin to make it appear superficially more like a TiVo would probably just make it more confusing for previous TiVo users.
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johoo
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by johoo » Thu May 11, 2017 19:02

Hi Peter,

> I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. The KEY_LAST
> keycode corresponds to the BACK button.

I asked about Back because there are two codes, I had used OBC 004 and in the discrete Power thread found a link to Ian's KEYMAP\TSeriesHexCodes.zip which include a Back of OBC 254. Are they synonyms or does OBC 254 do something different?

Back => Device Code: 0x02.0xF3 (2.243) Function: 0x04 (4) - KEY_LAST=0x195 (405)
Back => Device Code: 0x02.0xF3 (2.243) Function: 0xFE (254) - KEY_LAST=0x195 (405)

ZAPLIST was on the list because of curiosity, I could find no explanation.

I was hoping NEXT/PREV had a unique purpose, and the only way to move between bookmarks definitely qualifies. To date have not found a way to have bookmarks automatically inserted at pre-defined intervals during a recording (there may not be).

> The Beyonwiz isn't a TiVo, and making its UI behave more like
> one would require a very large effort

I do not care about that, I've moved on. I was proselytizing on Ian's thought that the devotees who are trying to patch an EPG into Tivo might find it more fruitful to use a modern base and customize that.

HELP helps, but it is going to take time to remember what button to use when because as you say, the usage is ad hoc.

Thanks for the guidance and explanation.

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MrQuade
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by MrQuade » Thu May 11, 2017 19:22

johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 19:02
To date have not found a way to have bookmarks automatically inserted at pre-defined intervals during a recording (there may not be).
If you long-press the LEFT or RIGHT skip buttons during file playback, you get a different type of skipbar.

With this skipbar, you can locate the cursor to the required playback location then press OK to begin playback at that point.

Alternatively, with the skipbar open, you can press a number button to go straight to "number x 10% " position on the timeline bar. This effectively gives you a whole bunch of invisible bookmarks in every file.

This is in addition to the normal (up to 10) skip keys that operate when the skipbar is not open.

There is a patch (not yet integrated into the firmware) that optionally replucates that numberpad percentage skip behaviour without having to bring up the skipbar first.
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peteru
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by peteru » Thu May 11, 2017 22:25

johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 19:02
found a link to Ian's KEYMAP\TSeriesHexCodes.zip
You'd be better off using the official documentation.

"Beauty lies in the hands of the beer holder."
Blog.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by IanSav » Fri May 12, 2017 00:22

Hi Johoo,
peteru wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 22:25
johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 19:02
found a link to Ian's KEYMAP\TSeriesHexCodes.zip
You'd be better off using the official documentation.
My list came via testing with an IR analyser. I simply simulated all the possible IR codes and documented what happened when they were sent to the Beyonwiz. It could be that unintended codes had unexpected reactions. It is always safest to go with the documented codes. If I have any added codes then threat them as a bonus. Please report if there are any inconsistencies.

Regards,
Ian.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Fri May 12, 2017 11:37

johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 19:02
...
I was hoping NEXT/PREV had a unique purpose, and the only way to move between bookmarks definitely qualifies. To date have not found a way to have bookmarks automatically inserted at pre-defined intervals during a recording (there may not be).
...

NEXT/PREV have various functions depending on context, but they aren't generally for navigation between screens, as you seemed to be saying in your post. The main exception to that seems to be in the media selection list screen where when PREV/NEXT are used on a directory, PREV is "go up one level" and NEXT is "enter directory". Since those two operations can currently be done using BACK and OK respectively, I'm not sure why it's done like that.

Some of the other uses or PREV/NEXT are
  • In text entry boxes, delete previous/delete next.
  • When viewing timeshift, previous/next show in the timeshift buffer.
  • When viewing the channel list, jump to next/previous marker (markers have a paperclip icon, see, for example, in the Terrestrial TV LCN bouquet). You can add markers to a bouquet using MENU>Add marker while viewing the channel list. You could, for example, use them to name the broadcaster for a section of that broadcaster's channels if you group channels by broadcaster..
  • When viewing the EPG, switch between bouquet viewed in the EPG.
  • When viewing a ChoiceBox popup menu, temporarily change the order of the list. Don't ask me why. I only just found out about it!
  • In the DVD player, prev/next chapter.
    and, as already mentioned:
  • In live TV (not viewing timeshifted) enter the channel change history selector, and also navigate up/down in that selector.
  • In the movie selection list play prev/next if they are playable, otherwise NEXT for enter directory, and PREV for up one level in the directories.
  • While playing a recording or media, previous/next bookmark. I find this most useful to go to the automatic "start of program" bookmark.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Fri May 12, 2017 11:40

johoo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 19:02
... To date have not found a way to have bookmarks automatically inserted at pre-defined intervals during a recording (there may not be). ...

Just curious about what that's useful for.
Peter
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by johoo » Mon May 15, 2017 11:50

>> ... bookmarks automatically inserted at pre-defined intervals ...
> ...with the skipbar open, you can press a number button
> to go straight to "number x 10% " position

I have Setup to use numbers for skip, and I did not know about this ability. Now have to make a choice on which to use.

> You'd be better off using the official documentation.

Thanks.

> Some of the other uses or PREV/NEXT are...

That long list illustrates how much of a neophyte I am, have needed/tried none of those capabilities yet.

>> ... bookmarks automatically inserted at pre-defined intervals ...
> Just curious about what that's useful for.

Consider me no longer interested in wanting that capability. The T4's 128X FF/RWD and 300 sec skip lessened the need, and the number x 10% function is an even better tool.

It is useful when the max FF/RWD is only 4X and you want to re-position quickly to near a known position (as when 'someone' forgots to press PAUSE when the washing machine ended).

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by prl » Mon May 15, 2017 12:10

johoo wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 11:50
>> ... bookmarks automatically inserted at pre-defined intervals ...
> ...with the skipbar open, you can press a number button
> to go straight to "number x 10% " position

I have Setup to use numbers for skip, and I did not know about this ability. Now have to make a choice on which to use.

You don't need to choose. This function is only available when the skip bar is open (long-press of LEFT or RIGHT*), and is available whether you use the number buttons for skip or not.
johoo wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 11:50
> Some of the other uses or PREV/NEXT are...

That long list illustrates how much of a neophyte I am, have needed/tried none of those capabilities yet.
...

I don't use many of them much, either, even of the ones I knew about before I searched the keymap tables to find all the places where NEXT/PREV are used.

* Defaults to long LEFT/RIGHT, but can be long-press of LEFT/RIGHT or of REW/FF, depending on the setting of MENU>Setup>TV>Recording settings>Seekbar/ime entry activation.
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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by johoo » Mon May 15, 2017 13:35

>> Now have to make a choice on which to use.
> You don't need to choose.

As Mum would have said, "all my Christmases have come at once".

The T4 has a smorgasboard of ways to achieve a goal.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Mon May 15, 2017 16:02

johoo wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 13:35
>> Now have to make a choice on which to use.
> You don't need to choose.

As Mum would have said, "all my Christmases have come at once".

The T4 has a smorgasboard of ways to achieve a goal.

And the other available control that wasn't chosen for the Seekbar (in option Seekbar/time entry skip activation) can then be used to open the Time entry skip box to enter in a skip amount that you decide at the time. For example, if hanging out the washing took 17 minutes, then a long press of REW (assuming the Seekbar setting default of long-LEFT/RIGHT) will open the 'Skip back (min)' time entry box and you'd then enter 17 and press OK.

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Re: Tivo Skin for T2 T4

Post by IanSav » Mon May 15, 2017 19:44

Hi,
peteru wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 22:25
You'd be better off using the official documentation.
Given this comment I went back checked my remote control codes in case the post was hinting at an error in my data. I can assure all users that my remote control data and information still 100% matches the official documentation.

The couple of extra codes I documented don't have to be used if people have any concerns that they are not "official".

Regards,
Ian.

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