EPG Enhancements Requests and EPG Bug Reporting

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 21:58

Preamble: An EPG to me personifies a PVR. It's undoubtedly for some the most used interface and interaction they have with their PVR. If you don't subscribe or have access to a paper guide and/or don't want to use a tablet/smart phone to look up what's on TV tonight or tomorrow night, you need to be able to browse the PVR's EPG and this should be a reasonably pleasant experience.

I have made a few posts in the OverlayHD thread regarding some improvements that I would like to see. It was suggested to me that maybe I should make this a separate topic, so here it is.

(1) The first is an enhancement to the way the currently running programs are shown on the EPG. At the moment, you can choose the text version of the layout which gives you a vertical line between programs. In the graphics mode, there is a small gap in the background grid to show the end and start of adjacent programs.

I still have my Topfield 2400 which also has a time line EPG. What it adds to the standard features of a time-line EPG is the way it shows by way of shading, where the currently running programs start and end. Below a screen grab:

(2) Selecting NEXT/Previous Day. Not sure if this is as intended or a bug, but when I use the Channel up/down to go forward by 24 hrs, I cannot get back to the current day. It stops at the current day + 1, i.e. for tonight, Saturday, it will only go back Sunday night.

Edit 15/11/2015 2:30pm: It maybe that this error only begins to become apparent after 6pm. At the moment, 2.30pm, it is working properly - you can go to tomorrow and come back to today.

Edit 15/11/2015 2:50pm. It has now stopped being able to go back to the current day. Hope this will help in tracking down this issue.

Edit 15/11/2015 3.55pm:This is not making sense - I can now go back to today again.....

(3) Going back to where you came from.Using the number 5 on the keypad to get back to the present day and time, the cursor will not go back to the program that is currently running on the TV screen. Again, maybe this is not a bug, but I would prefer to have it come back to where it was when I opened the EPG, i.e. on the currently showing program.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 22:04

The T series used to shade the current event like your long number 1. It was decided that it made the files look too busy, so that feature was removed quiet some time ago. I would have preferred it to be a setting personally.

I recall point 2 being a problem some time ago, but thought it was fixed. Odd. With that and the up/down bug returning in the latest firmware, it seems there may have been some reversions.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 23:02

My thoughts on your comments:
Preamble: I don't fit into the group that uses the epg as the most used screen. I would rarely use it as an icetv user. When I switched to autotimers for a while I used it a lot. But even then I certainly wouldn't call it the most used screen. The most used screen would be the movie list.
1) I really like this suggestion, but not for quite the same reason as you. I hadn't noticed the fine gap between the programs you mention and had to look at the epg to see what you meant. My main reason for liking it is because it makes the epg look better and because the Tx isn't very good at sticking to the current time then you scroll up and down past long programs. It tends to move you forward to the next show.

2) I haven't seen this recently. It rings a bell. It may be a big that is only limited to specific epg settings ie certain time range or a long old programs setting.

3) I agree that the help for 5 says yo move to current time but it seems to move yo the last program in the current time range. Not something I'd noticed before.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 23:10

Hi Phil,

I fully support point 1. I have often wanted the same sort of highlighting. This is how the Classic series worked.

I can't replicate the issue in point 2.

For point 3 pressing "5" does jump back to the correct screen but it does not position to the current event. It would be good if this can be corrected.

Regards,
Ian.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 23:12

Hi MrQuade,

MrQuade wrote:The T series used to shade the current event like your long number 1. It was decided that it made the files look too busy, so that feature was removed quiet some time ago. I would have preferred it to be a setting personally.

I don't remember this discussion. Do you have a pointer to the appropriate thread?

I have been focused on OverlayHD for a very long time but I would have thought I would remember such a discussion.

Regards,
Ian.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 23:37

IanSav wrote: Do you have a pointer to the appropriate thread?

I have been focused on OverlayHD for a very long time but I would have thought I would remember such a discussion.

Given it was a skin discussion, I would have thought so too.
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=7984&start=40#p110374

This was when the EPG was not filling event highlight properly, and was not colouring events with timers if they were a current event.
prl and PeterU decided that the sheer number of highlight combinations when you include navigation and timer highlighting wasn't worth the added complication of highiting all of the "now" events.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 23:40

Ahh, in fact if you check the videos in the Howto section, you can see the actual images of the original EPG.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7830

I didn't think to check those.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 00:08

Hi MrQuade,

While I don't remember those posts at all it is clear that Prl is the person to ask for this feature to be restored. If it is deemed to confusing for the default skin then I would be happy for these values to be set so that the current EPG display is preserved. OverlayHD users could then use the OverlayHD plugin to vary the colours as they wish.

This also explains a bug I encountered during OverlayHD skin development. There were some EPG attributes that were defined and used to work but are now declared as invalid.

Code: Select all

<!--
 |		These entries were defined for the EPG grid but are now reported as invalid!
 |		- EntryBackgroundColorNow = "#0000056f"
 |		- EntryBackgroundColorNowSelected = "#00d8c664"
 |		- EntryForegroundColorNow = "White"
 |		- EntryForegroundColorNowSelected = "Black"
 +-->

Those settings are obviously the attributes that controlled the original colouring for the "Now" events.

Regards,
Ian.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 00:15

Yep, I see now that it's been used before

.

But, if you use the All Metal EPG Skin, where the Event background colours are more muted and in shades of grey, as in the Topfield example, it doesn't glare at you as it does in the way it was implemented in the old EPG.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 00:21

Yes, the original shading was a bit on the bold side with the Text style EPG as shown in the video. The Graphical style EPG wasn't quite so bright.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 13:29

Just an update on the Next Day/24hr channel up/channel down issue.

It maybe that this error only begins to become apparent after 6pm. At the moment, 2.30pm, it is working properly - you can go to tomorrow and come back to today. Have edited my first post with this info.

Edit: It has now stopped being able to go back to the current day 2:50pm.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 14:02

Update on Repeat flags not being shown on the EPG, but correctly marked up as Repeats elsewhere. Item (4).

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 15:06

Item (2) I think you have an odd setting in your epg settings. Either the range or how long to keep of old epg, or one of those. Post your settings so somebody else can try to replicate.

(4). Look at the icetv current description for Miranda. The one you are showing looks like FTA and not icetv. (Icetv don't normally add the word final at the end). If so it means you had a gap in your icetv feed and it was being filled with FTA data.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 15:21

simoncasey wrote:Item (2) I think you have an odd setting in your epg settings. Either the range or how long to keep of old epg, or one of those. Post your settings so somebody else can try to replicate.

(4). Look at the icetv current description for Miranda. The one you are showing looks like FTA and not icetv. (Icetv don't normally add the word final at the end). If so it means you had a gap in your icetv feed and it was being filled with FTA data.

Just on the matter of EPG fill in, is this standard behaviour - to fill in a gap where ICETV data is missing? Seems to make sense as the 1 hour long ABC news us still showing as running from 7.00 till7.40pm, whilst my T2 EPG shows it running for the full hour which is of course the correct length.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 15:26

It's a setting. You have eit epg enabled which will mean it will fill in gaps.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 18:25

Well, that's bloody clever

.

I obviously need a little education here. I thought the EIT was populated by the source of the EPG data, i.e. if ICETV was the source, then it would populate the EIT with the Extended Information.

If it is the FTA Extended Info, then you would need the T2 to have been on that Service for a short time at least to have taken in the FTA data. But, if you've not visited that service for several hours, that would mean that the EIT data would be out of date (noticeable only of course if there have been changes since you last tuned to that service.)

If the EIT does indeed store FTA data, then it would seem to be a good thing to have it poll the FTA services, using an unused tuner of course. Is this why some people use EPGRefresh or is it only used when using FTA exclusively? Is that the Automatic Refresh option in the EPG Menu btw?

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 19:41

I'm going nuts... All my Repeat Flags have disappeared and my descriptions seem to be coming from FTA. Another large hole in ICETV's EPG data?

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 19:58

jpp wrote:I'm going nuts... All my Repeat Flags have disappeared and my descriptions seem to be coming from FTA. Another large hole in ICETV's EPG data?

You want to have EIT disabled if IceTV is enabled.
You can still have EIT on now/next though.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 20:05

Something sounds odd. Turn off eit epg and disable icetv and check your epg is clear. Then re-enable icetv.

Check your icetv log to make sure it is updating. There may be an issue with all of the icetv updates causing a problem.

Whilst it sounds handy to have the setting on so that eit epg is available if icetv isn't, it generally just makes things more complicated as the start times don't quite match.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 15:41

Thanks you gents. I've held of replying earlier as I wanted to see how it all would go. All seems to be going well now - after turning off EIT enable and a reboot, I seem to be getting all the Repeat Flags from ICETV through now. Today, the EPG even correctly added the new SBS Food Network data.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 18:14

I know that there's a lot going on atm what with Timers and Blank EPGs, but I was wondering if it's possible to have an update on my suggestions wrt the EPG presentation, particularly the aspect of restoring the shading current/showing now programs. See my first post about this here: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9804&p=131104#p131104

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 18:24

it probably didn't help that the discussion carried on in the OverlayHD thread from here.

I don't think it has received much thought beyond those few posts due to the lack of any clarity on how to manage the myriad of colour combination required to make it work.

Perhaps you can make some suggestions with diagrams as to how each of the zap/record/current colours should look, and in each of the combinations.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 18:45

Hmm...I see what you mean. You, Peter, Ian and Simoncasey have all chimed in.....

OK, a suggestion. I don't know any of the workings that trigger the highlighting of an event, but... is it a relatively easy matter to use the current cursor/time-line needle to trigger the background lightening of the "now" programs events (as per sample in the first post)? If any other type of markings such as recording or zap etc have already been applied to any "now" programs, would this then just lighten the already in place colours? I.e. we don't need to choose any more colours - the existing colours apply; they will just be a lighter shade.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 19:05

jpp wrote:Hmm...I see what you mean. You, Ian and Simoncasey have all chimed in.....

OK, a suggestion. I don't know any of the workings that trigger the highlighting of an event, but... is it a relatively easy matter to use the current cursor/time-line needle to trigger the background lightening of the "now" programs events (as per sample in the first post)? If any other type of markings such as recording or zap etc have already been applied to any "now" programs, would this then just lighten the already in place colours? I.e. we don't need to choose any more colours - the existing colours apply; they will just be a lighter shade.

The lighter/brighter version of the existing colours is already used as the selected colour. So if would need to be different again otherwise you would lose where you are. We would need to have three shades of each colour, or ignore the current attribute of recordings etc.

I think I generated a list of all of the scenarios with current/ proposed colours, but my assumption was that we wouldn't differentiate current events for already coloured shows.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 19:09

OK, that would work too. It still clearly marks/delineates the current or "now" blocks of events/programs/shows. I can see that if you had 2 consecutive say Record events, one on the "now" program and the other on the next time slot, you would get a merged RED line, but I think I can live with that

.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 19:24

simoncasey wrote: I think I generated a list of all of the scenarios with current/ proposed colours, but my assumption was that we wouldn't differentiate current events for already coloured shows.

You sure did, I will quote you here so that it is on record in this thread.

simoncasey wrote: We have the following combinations:
1. Normal event
2. Recording event
3. Zap event
4. Normal event that is selected
5. Recording event that is selected
6. Zap event that is selected
7. Normal event that is on now
8. Recording event that is on now
9. Zap event that is on now
10. Normal event that is on now and selected
11. Recording event that is on now and selected
12. Zap event that is on now and selected

Currently we have different colours for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
My understanding is that we would introduce a new colour (or the old colour) for on now so that:
7. Has the new on now colour
8. Has the recording colour (ie recording takes precedence over on now)
9. Has the zap colour (ie zap takes precedence over on now)
10. Has either the selected item colour or a highlighted version of the on now colour
11. Has the selected and recording colour (ie recording takes precedence over on now)
12. Has the selected and zap colour (ie zap takes precedence over on now)

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 20:00

Thanks, I was on the iPhone and selective quoting isn't easy.

I think the question still remains, if a the cursor is selecting a show that is a recording and is also on now, what colour is it? You still need to show that it is selected otherwise you will lose the cursor, and it needs to show it is recording. is the On now part just ignored for recordings?

I didn't quite understand jpp's comment about the merged red line for sequential recordings with one on now.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 20:49

Do we need to change it as it is now - i.e. a lighter colour RED? I thought you suggested that we leave all event current colour schemes the same, and if any event is already set on a "now" show, it overrides the light grey background colour for the "now" shows.

By way of clarification, we wouldn't need this light shading of "now" shows, if every program that the cursor is on, already has it's background shaded differently from the following programs, e.g. if all the programs under the line cursor had some sort of event set, it would clearly show the time blocks start and end of each of the programs around or under the current time.

Don't forget, the whole thrust of this lighter background shade of grey for "now" shows, is to make it easier to see the end of the "now" showing programs. This I feel makes it easier to plan for the next program you might want to watch. It doesn't really matter if the background colour(s) under the line cursor are a different colour - it still clearly shows the start and end of each of the "now" programs.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 20:52

I can't add much to this conversation other than 'I also want it'. In the short term, I'd even settle for just the currently-watched 'now' cell being shaded. Obviously when you first open the EPG, this cell is shaded yellow, but once you move away from it there is no visual reminder of which service you are currently viewing in the PIG.

Now, another gripe - what's with the 'Keep old EPG for x minutes' feature? I turned it on because I like having a few hours of history, only to find that it takes up my active guide space, rather than being hidden off the LHS like the DP-S1. Is it only because the T series EPG works in pages rather than proper scrolling? (which in itself is annoying). If so, why can't the 'keep old EPG' setting simply be an on-off switch, and when turned on, it will keep one page of history, being the same # of minutes you have set in 'Time Scale'. And of course hide this page off the LHS. Seems logical to me. Because at the moment, it's practically an unusable feature.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 20:59

simoncasey wrote:Thanks, I was on the iPhone and selective quoting isn't easy.
I didn't quite understand jpp's comment about the merged red line for sequential recordings with one on now.

I was just illustrating that if your had a program set to record after a "now" marked RED program on the same channel, you would have 2 red background time slots, one following the other.

This would make it harder to see if the RED Record line segment was for just one program or 2. But, of course each would have its own program name, so no biggie. Probably confused things more, so just ignore this comment. After all, this is exactly how we have it now. Should the cursor be one either of the 2 RED Record program, it will change its colour anyhow, again, just as it does now. See below

If the cursor is elsewhere, the 2 recordings show the same red colour, but the end of one and start of the other is still easy to see. Note too that as the blue cursor is still partway "covered" by the time-line cursor, it clearly shows that the program it's on is still in a currently airing or on "now" time. Note as well, that the blue cursor can happily replace/override the proposed lighter colour background for the "now" programs. It still performs the function of clearly showing where the selected program started (in this case as it's still covered by the time-line cursor) and ends . See below.

If we move the cursor away from the "now" programs covered by the time-line cursor, it becomes hard to see when the other progarms covered by the time-line cursor, start and end. This is why I'm looking for a way to highlight any programs that are "under" the "now" time-line cursor.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 21:24

jpp wrote:Do we need to change it as it is now - i.e. a lighter colour RED? I thought you suggested that we leave all event current colour schemes the same, and if any event is already set on a "now" show, it overrides the light grey background colour for the "now" shows.

By way of clarification, we wouldn't need this light shading of "now" shows, if every program that the cursor is on, already has it's background shaded differently from the following programs, e.g. if all the programs under the line cursor had some sort of event set, it would clearly show the time blocks start and end of each of the programs around or under the current time.

Don't forget, the whole thrust of this lighter background shade of grey for "now" shows, is to make it easier to see the end of the "now" showing programs. This I feel makes it easier to plan for the next program you might want to watch. It doesn't really matter if the background colour(s) under the line cursor are a different colour - it still clearly shows the start and end of each of the "now" programs.

Maybe we should focus on the main thrust and change the epg to show the lines between shows more clearly. I use text epg anyway and that is almost too far the other way with the lines dominating over the text.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 21:26

simoncasey wrote: Maybe we should focus on the main thrust and change the epg to show the lines between shows more clearly. I use text epg anyway and that is almost too far the other way with the lines dominating over the text.

Exactly, that's what I found when I tried the TEXT EPG

It just clutters the whole screen rather than enhance the clarity of it. The eye is much better adapted to pick up changes in colour without the brain having to be engaged much.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 21:34

Maybe the colour of the lines in the text epg could be changed either as a full time change or through a skin. That would seem simpler than trying to implement on now colours.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 21:42

madmax wrote:I can't add much to this conversation other than 'I also want it'. In the short term, I'd even settle for just the currently-watched 'now' cell being shaded. Obviously when you first open the EPG, this cell is shaded yellow, but once you move away from it there is no visual reminder of which service you are currently viewing in the PIG.

Just reread your post madmax. As you can see, I use the "metal" EPG skin. With it, you see the name of the program you are currently watching at the top of the PIG - have a close look at the pics I showed in the post a few back above. Haven't used the default Easy...skin for a while, so can't remember if it does it too.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 21:50

simoncasey wrote:Maybe the colour of the lines in the text epg could be changed either as a full time change or through a skin. That would seem simpler than trying to implement on now colours.

Trouble with that is that it still doesn't show you clearly the end of the time block. Sure, the start time is delineated by the start of the text, but the end has no such sharp delineation other than the start of the text in the next program.

I'm obviously not aware of the intricacies of the programming involved with setting a different background shade to the existing background that is in place for all the cells and text, but I would have thought that you could pick up all programs that are under the "now" category and use this info to set the background for those programs.

It has/was apparently been done before, but was discarded later as being too confusing. If a different colour rather than just different background shading was used then, I would agree with that, but shading is a far more subtle way of achieving the same end result with much less eye strain than if you use a different colour.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 21:58

jpp wrote: Trouble with that is that it still doesn't show you clearly the end of the time block. Sure, the start time is delineated by the start of the text, but the end has no such sharp delineation other than the start of the text in the next program.
.

I'm not getting you. There would be a big box around each show so it would be obvious where the start and end was.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 22:00

If I can throw in my 2c as to a workable solution.

I like the current arrangement in terms of highlighting of events.

That is (with the default skin):
Normal event - blue
Recording timer - red
Zap timer - green
Selected event - yellow
Selected recording - light red (or white washed red)
Selected Zap timer -light green (or white washed green)

I would propose that if anything is to be changed then:
Current event on each service - light blue
If a current event has a record timer - magenta (or some similar shade to signify light blue and red combined)
If a current event has a zap timer - turquoise (or similar as above for reasoning)
However, if a current service is selected and also has a zap or record timer, then it should be highlighted as-per the current arrangement (as a light red or green accordingly).

That would mean that the current event would always have a relevant highlight colour that is distinct from any neighbouring events.

While I have been pottering about, I only just noticed that the "zap and record" timer type has no special highlight colour in the default graphical EPG. Is that a known bug? It's not a timer type I use at all. I would propose that the highlight in that case, should be the same colours as a record timer, but should have a (z) icon instead of the clock.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 22:02

jpp wrote: I'm obviously not aware of the intricacies of the programming involved with setting a different background shade to the existing background that is in place for all the cells and text, but I would have thought that you could pick up all programs that are under the "now" category and use this info to set the background for those programs.

It has/was apparently been done before, but was discarded later as being too confusing. If a different colour rather than just different background shading was used then, I would agree with that, but shading is a far more subtle way of achieving the same end result with much less eye strain than if you use a different colour.

A different shade is basically the same as a different colour.

I think the issue is more to do with causing less confusion on the screen rather than how to actually do it. The concern with making the effort to change is that some others won't like it as it makes the epg too busy.

Maybe if you could mock up a suggested view that others may like the look of.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 22:11

jpp wrote:
simoncasey wrote:Maybe the colour of the lines in the text epg could be changed either as a full time change or through a skin. That would seem simpler than trying to implement on now colours.
Trouble with that is that it still doesn't show you clearly the end of the time block. Sure, the start time is delineated by the start of the text, but the end has no such sharp delineation other than the start of the text in the next program.

I'm obviously not aware of the intricacies of the programming involved with setting a different background shade to the existing background that is in place for all the cells and text, but I would have thought that you could pick up all programs that are under the "now" category and use this info to set the background for those programs.

It has/was apparently been done before, but was discarded later as being too confusing. If a different colour rather than just different background shading was used then, I would agree with that, but shading is a far more subtle way of achieving the same end result with much less eye strain than if you use a different colour.

The last change to the background in the EPG was done because previously the "now" shading replaced the "record timer" shading when a recording became current. In retaining the record shading when the recording became current, the "now" shading was dropped everywhere, because the number of shading combinations was getting out of hand.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 22:12

simoncasey wrote:I'm not getting you. There would be a big box around each show so it would be obvious where the start and end was.

OK, I see - slightly misread your post. But, as a general comment, I think this would still tend to clutter the layout with more coloured lines (as opposed) to background shading. Couple that with the heavy stroke of the text characters (particularly in the standard default EPG), it to me still makes for a cluttered format. You could liken my preference ( ideology

) here to the comparison between Win 7 and Win 10 - one has borders around every window or box, the other is a boxless format.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 22:21

simoncasey wrote: A different shade is basically the same as a different colour.

I think the issue is more to do with causing less confusion on the screen rather than how to actually do it. The concern with making the effort to change is that some others won't like it as it makes the epg too busy.

Maybe if you could mock up a suggested view that others may like the look of.

Well, accepting your suggestion to have any events shown on the now programs override the now background shade, I go back to the sample I posted in my first post - below another shot of it. The Toppy's format shows yellow for current cursor position - just ignore that. It's the shading of the grey background that I want to draw your attention to.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 22:26

Hi,

There are so many comments and suggestions flying around it is difficult to visualise what people are trying to achieve.

Perhaps people could provide some examples of what they envisage so we can better see what is proposed.

Regards,
Ian.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 22:44

jpp wrote:
simoncasey wrote: A different shade is basically the same as a different colour.

I think the issue is more to do with causing less confusion on the screen rather than how to actually do it. The concern with making the effort to change is that some others won't like it as it makes the epg too busy.

Maybe if you could mock up a suggested view that others may like the look of.
Well, accepting your suggestion to have any events shown on the now programs override the now background shade, I go back to the sample I posted in my first post - below another shot of it. The Toppy's format shows yellow for current cursor position - just ignore that. It's the shading of the grey background that I want to draw your attention to.

Topfield EPG.png

I get what you are suggesting regarding on now, but what about if there were some timers, including some as on now and then move the cursor around so that it always is shown. That's the complicated bit and why it was removed.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 00:13

IanSav wrote: There are so many comments and suggestions flying around it is difficult to visualise what people are trying to achieve.

Well, I can at least provide a bodgy mockup for my suggestion.

The actual colour shades are not accurate, but they are illustrative of what I was describing.

Item 1 shows a standard EPG view.
Selected event in Yellow.
There is a recording timer and a zap timer shown using the standard colouring which is already in use in the current firmware.
The current events are all highlighted as per jpp's preference. (I have selected light blue for the colour)
One of the current events has a recording timer on it and is instead shaded magenta.
One of the current events has a zap timer on it and is instead shaded turquoise.

Item 2 shows the same view when one of the current events with no timers is highlighted. Standard yellow colouring.

Item 3 shows the same view when the current recording timer is highlighted. Standard light red colouring.

Item 4 shows the same view when the current zap timer is highlighted. Standard light green colouring.

In every case, event colouring adjacent to the current event is always kept unique, and the selected event colours are consistent with the current firmware.

I don't see any need to differentiate a highlighted timer that is a current event from a highlighted timer that is non-current. The extra colours and complexity would not add any useful information to the EPG IMHO.

And again, I repeat, the actual shades I have used here are just indicative.....they do not reflect the ACTUAL shades that the EPG would use. My illustration is a lot brighter than what I would actually want on the TV.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 00:48

Hi,

Do we really need current recording or zap timers (active now) to be highlighted in something other than their normal colours? I suggest that they already stand out enough. The only extension I would particularly like to see is that standard (non timer) events that span the "NOW" time line should have the original highlight restored. Timers are special enough that they stand out. Adding lots more colour combinations is likely to confuse more people than it would help.

I would also like to see the yellow (current event) highlight be used for any event even if it is a recording or zap timer that is the currently selected event. That is, a user is used to seeing the cursor as yellow so it should always be yellow.

Regards,
Ian.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 00:55

IanSav wrote: Do we really need current recording or zap timers (active now) to be highlighted in something other than their normal colours?

I am inclined to partially agree with you on this one.

I only suggest that in the case where you have two adjacent recordings, one being the current event and the other is the next event (I show this in my diagram). If they are not different colours, then the two will blend into each-other, which is what jpp is complaining about.

My suggestion is to just add two new colours to the current scheme, so not overly complex or confusing.

IanSav wrote:I would also like to see the yellow (current event) highlight be used for any event even if it is a recording or zap timer that is the currently selected event. That is, a user is used to seeing the cursor as yellow so it should always be yellow.

While I do agree that less complexity is better, this suggestion does make it much much harder to identify if the selected even is a zap/recording event. The colours are much faster to identify (more attention grabbing) than the icons.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 05:50

MrQuade wrote:
IanSav wrote: Do we really need current recording or zap timers (active now) to be highlighted in something other than their normal colours?
I am inclined to partially agree with you on this one.

I only suggest that in the case where you have two adjacent recordings, one being the current event and the other is the next event (I show this in my diagram). If they are not different colours, then the two will blend into each-other, which is what jpp is complaining about.

I think this is what I suggested originally ie timer colours take preference over on now. Note that you can still see the difference between sequential recordings by selecting one.

IanSav wrote:I would also like to see the yellow (current event) highlight be used for any event even if it is a recording or zap timer that is the currently selected event. That is, a user is used to seeing the cursor as yellow so it should always be yellow.
While I do agree that less complexity is better, this suggestion does make it much much harder to identify if the selected even is a zap/recording event. The colours are much faster to identify (more attention grabbing) than the icons.

I'm not sure this change is warranted. I think the current method of showing them in brighter colour works well.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 07:31

simoncasey wrote:... I'm not getting you. There would be a big box around each show so it would be obvious where the start and end was.

There is already a skinnable-width and skinnable-colour border around each item in the servicename/picon and the main body of the EPG.

The defaults for the text mode of the Graphical[PIG]EPG are:
EventBorderWidth="1"
ServiceBorderWidth="1"
EntryBorderColor="#00C0C0C0"
ServiceBorderColor="#00C0C0C0"

The graphical mode of Graphical[PIG]EPG uses the same border definitions, but pixmaps rather than fill colours for the border "colour", two versions of each, for selected and unselected:

Code: Select all

					'epg/BorderTop.png',
					'epg/BorderBottom.png',
					'epg/BorderLeft.png',
					'epg/BorderRight.png',

					'epg/SelectedBorderTop.png',
					'epg/SelectedBorderBottom.png',
					'epg/SelectedBorderLeft.png',
					'epg/SelectedBorderRight.png',

I hope people are getting an appreciation for my reluctance to expand the num,ber of different colours/shadings/pixmaps in this interface.

You can modify them by adding the attributes to the "list" widget in the various EPG screen definitions (in skin_epg.xml in the standard skins and skin_epgs.xml in OvetlayHD).

I can't say I've had much problem seeing the boundaries of the shows. Not that I use the EPG all that much.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 07:57

prl wrote:
simoncasey wrote:... I'm not getting you. There would be a big box around each show so it would be obvious where the start and end was.
There is already a skinnable-width and skinnable-colour border around each item in the servicename/picon and the main body of the EPG.

The defaults are:
EventBorderWidth="1"
ServiceBorderWidth="1"
EntryBorderColor="#00C0C0C0"
ServiceBorderColor="#00C0C0C0"

You can modify them by adding the attributes to the "list" widget in the various EPG screen definitions (in skin_epg.xml in the standard skins and skin_epgs.xml in OvetlayHD).

I can't say I've had much problem seeing the boundaries of the shows. Not that I use the EPG all that much.

Good to know. I think the Xmas break will see me looking at developing a new skin.

As like you, I didn't have an issue with the epg until I stopped using icetv for a while and realised I would have to use the epg to create autotimers - that may still become necessary. I think the separation is much more subtle in full metal skin.

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