EPG Enhancements Requests and EPG Bug Reporting

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 18:29

I've submitted fixes to these bugs to the firmware repository:

#442: Buttons 1/3 don't change the time scale correctly in Graphical EPG
#443: Repeated pressing of 7 in graphical EPG doesn't toggle item height cleanly
#444: Time tick marks sometimes displayed incorrectly in Graphical EPG

The fix for the page/day skip inconsistencies in the EPG will need some more thought.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 15:55

Has anyone submitted an enhancement request for the 'now on' shading?

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 16:05

Hi Madmax,

I don't think people have arrived at a consensus for what the change should be.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 16:28

No. I'm not particularly minded to.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 16:32

What would change your mind Peter?

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 23:15

IanSav wrote:I don't think people have arrived at a consensus for what the change should be.

Just shade them grey or otherwise light blue like the DP series. Keep it simple and forget about the turquoise and magenta suggested earlier, that could be done later if its really wanted. At least it's a start. Add an on/off switch in EPG settings, to keep the other 50% happy.

Wish I was a coder.....

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 23:53

Hi Madmax,

What you are asking for is more or less all I want as well. I don't think the switch is needed as the skin can simply set the unwanted NOW colour to be the same as the background colour. That should effectively eliminate the feature.

I would be happy if this were the default as OverlayHD can then actively manage the element colours and return control to users.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 08:01

That works in text mode of the graphical EPG OverlayHD. Not in the graphical mode in OverlayHD, or at all other skins.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 09:52

Hi Prl,

I never use Graphical mode. I could never see a significant difference to justify its use. Is there something I am missing?

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:25

Only details of how it's implemented. Which is to use pixmaps for most backgrounds rather than colours.

By using text mode you do gain a small performance advantage at first entry to the EPG, because those pixmaps are only loaded if the View mode is graphical. But it's not much: there are 16 pixmaps loaded specifically for graphical mode, but they're all fairly small.

But anyway, changing EPG background colours in OverlayHD will work in text View mode, but not in graphical View mode. The colour changing facility doesn't exist in the other skins.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:03

Hi Prl,

Yet another reason why OverlayHD is worth considering!

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:19

Using OverlayHD colour change capability doesn't solve the problem for users of the graphical View mode in the EPG, even for those who use OverlayHD.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:36

Hi Prl,

But as you indicated, the graphical view really doesn't really add anything to the EPG experience.

Regards,
Ian.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:38

IanSav wrote: But as you indicated, the graphical view really doesn't really add anything to the EPG experience.

Are you arguing to get rid of graphical mode, or just orphan it from changes in the rest of the GUI? Either option doesn't sound like a good idea.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:43

IanSav wrote:... But as you indicated, the graphical view really doesn't really add anything to the EPG experience. ...

I guess it must somehow, because it's my preferred view. It doesn't detract from the data that's available.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:52

Hi MrQuade,

MrQuade wrote:Are you arguing to get rid of graphical mode, or just orphan it from changes in the rest of the GUI? Either option doesn't sound like a good idea.

Not at all, I am just shopping for more users to try out OverlayHD.

If GraphicalEPG could be sped up or improved in some significant way by removing the Graphics option then a case could be made that it doesn't contribute much so it could go. I do not believe that is the case so I see no point in removing the mode or making a change.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:01

If I ever implement something like this, it will be in a way that can work for any skin.

I don't think much of a suggested "fix" that only works in one of the two view modes in one of the three available skins.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:35

Hi Prl,

prl wrote:If I ever implement something like this, it will be in a way that can work for any skin.

I don't think much of a suggested "fix" that only works in one of the two view modes in one of the three available skins.

From this reply I don't think we are on the same track.

My conversation started with an agreement with Madmax's wish for the on now highlighting to be restored. I then indicated that for the text mode of the GraphicalEPG that OverlayHD allows users to select any colours they may want. They can also make some colours the same as other colours to make some features appear to be disabled. For example, the on now colour can be made the same as the background colour to effectively negate the on now highlighting. I then mentioned that I didn't really see the point of both the text and graphics modes as they appear to do much the same thing. I then hinted that OverlayHD allows manipulation of the text mode colours without needing to edit the skin as a "sales" pitch for OverlayHD.

I didn't think or intend for any of my recent comments to be taken as any sort or request or desire for any specific method or style of changes to be made that would only work for OverlayHD.

Regards,
Ian.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:37

IanSav wrote:Hi Prl,

But as you indicated, the graphical view really doesn't really add anything to the EPG experience.

Regards,
Ian.

Ah.., but the graphical view really does add to and improve the EPG experience - it gets rid of all those vertical lines that clutter the display and make it look much busier.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:46

Hi Phil,

jpp wrote:Ah.., but the graphical view really does add to and improve the EPG experience - it gets rid of all those vertical lines that clutter the display and make it look much busier.

Thank you, I never noticed that difference but boy does it stand out when you look for it.

Ideally this could be addressed if the text mode adds "borderWidth=" and "borderColor=" attributes to the text mode display. (These attributes could equally apply to the graphics mode.) I believe that this could be another very welcome improvement if Prl ever decides to consider adding them.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 15:45

IanSav wrote:...
I didn't think or intend for any of my recent comments to be taken as any sort or request or desire for any specific method or style of changes to be made that would only work for OverlayHD.
...

As far as I can tell, that's exactly what you proposed:

IanSav wrote:...
I don't think the switch [to enable/disable "now" backgrounds] is needed as the skin can simply set the unwanted NOW colour to be the same as the background colour. That should effectively eliminate the feature.

...

That would only work for the text View mode of the Graphical EPG in the OverlayHD skin, and not in any other use of the Graphical EPG.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 16:09

Hi Prl,

I am not intending to be involved in an argument but any skin that uses the text mode GraphicalEPG can have the colours changed by editing the colour selections in the skin. OverlayHD simply makes the process easier by having a plugin that programmatically switches colours on the fly. OverlayHD can not currently achieve anything that a coder can not also achieve by editing the skin files with a text editor.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 16:13

That's not a replacement for the proposed switch.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 16:26

Hi Prl,

Sorry, you only paid for the $5 argument.

I don't care if the feature is controlled by an option. I would simply like to have the feature restored. The point of my comment was that even if the option is restored without a control option users could edit the skin to hide the feature.

Regards,
Ian.

DaveJ · Post by **DaveJ** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 17:12

jpp wrote:
simoncasey wrote: A different shade is basically the same as a different colour.

I think the issue is more to do with causing less confusion on the screen rather than how to actually do it. The concern with making the effort to change is that some others won't like it as it makes the epg too busy.

Maybe if you could mock up a suggested view that others may like the look of.
Well, accepting your suggestion to have any events shown on the now programs override the now background shade, I go back to the sample I posted in my first post - below another shot of it. The Toppy's format shows yellow for current cursor position - just ignore that. It's the shading of the grey background that I want to draw your attention to.

Topfield EPG.png

I'm with you, jpp, madmax and IanSav.

I regard the EPG guide as a very important screen and it is used most often in my household.

I'm one user very used to the behavior of the "traditional" Wiz boxes. So I'd prefer to see the current time column highlighted/coloured differently (subtle difference like shown in the sample). I don't understand the techie talk about how to do it, just that I'd rather see it work that way. I'd also expect to see it behave the same way no matter what skin I might try.

That and "timer events" highlighted/bolded - again, just like the S1/P1/P2 does. I thought the guides worked very well in the old machines. They were clear and easy to follow.

Yep, I know I represent just one user/household and understand there will be other opinions. But at least I've had a chance to offer mine.

++
Oh yes - add me in support for "smooth sideways scrolling" and against the current method of big jumps left/right in "time blocks".

Cheers

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 18:14

DaveJ wrote:.... I don't understand the techie talk about how to do it, just that I'd rather see it work that way. ...

That techie talk is coming from the people who would most likely implement it if it was decided to go ahead with it.

DaveJ · Post by **DaveJ** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 18:46

prl wrote:
DaveJ wrote:.... I don't understand the techie talk about how to do it, just that I'd rather see it work that way. ...
That techie talk is coming from the people who would most likely implement it if it was decided to go ahead with it.

That much I do understand!

My point was more that I have no idea how hard the change might be to code/configure/implement.

You do point out one of the great things about lurking around this place - we actually get to see talk from those who really know the product. And who have real input into how it works.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 22:58

DaveJ wrote:I regard the EPG guide as a very important screen and it is used most often in my household.

I'm one user very used to the behavior of the "traditional" Wiz boxes. So I'd prefer to see the current time column highlighted/coloured differently (subtle difference like shown in the sample). I don't understand the techie talk about how to do it, just that I'd rather see it work that way. I'd also expect to see it behave the same way no matter what skin I might try.

I see from other posts that the T series originally had this feature, but it was removed.

I wasn't around during development, so I don't know the reason for it, but it's hard to imagine any reason big enough to remove such a useful feature.

IanSav wrote:Hi Phil,
jpp wrote:Ah.., but the graphical view really does add to and improve the EPG experience - it gets rid of all those vertical lines that clutter the display and make it look much busier.
Thank you, I never noticed that difference but boy does it stand out when you look for it.

Aha, me too!

Now I see it's all about the cell dividing lines. I can't believe I didn't notice it before, I must have been too focussed on the text. I think I prefer the text view now.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 09:13

madmax wrote:... I see from other posts that the T series originally had this feature, but it was removed. I wasn't around during development, so I don't know the reason for it, but it's hard to imagine any reason big enough to remove such a useful feature. ...

I posted about why it was removed in this topic back here and in more detail here. The removal was as a side-effect of user requests to have running recording timers shaded as recording timers, not as plain "now" events.

Here's a rundown on the number of colours/background pixmaps needed for some of the options being discussed.

IMO the "now" shows are quite adequately marked already, by the "now" line.

Here's peteru's take on it.

I may at some stage look at the minimalist approach of just adding "now" shading for non-timer entries, as has been suggested in the topic earlier, but I feel that lightening the now events without timers while keeping full colour saturation for current timer events will look a bit odd.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 09:59

prl wrote: I may at some stage look at the minimalist approach of just adding "now" shading for non-timer entries, as has been suggested in the topic earlier, but I feel that lightening the now events without timers while keeping full colour saturation for current timer events will look a bit odd.

I would have said that keeping the full colour saturation for now timer events is exactly what you want. Regardless, it still serves the function of indicating clearly when the now timer/record event is going to end. So, you have my full blessing to give the minimalist approach a go - pretty please

. If you could provide a switch option for those who don't like it, that would cover everyone's ideology

.

glen · Post by **glen** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:34

Can the EPG history be extended so it shows the last 12 hours or even better the last 24 hours?

Glen

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:12

glen wrote:Can the EPG history be extended so it shows the last 12 hours or even better the last 24 hours? ...

It looks like the basic functionality would be easy, but how it interacts with paging and skipping back and forward in time might need some thought, so that when you page back through the "now" page, the "now" line is in a sensible place, like no more than about 1/3 of the way across the EPG grid.

Consider what might happens if you skip forward in time using page skips with 6, then change the number of hours shown on the page using 1/3, then page back with 4. When you get back to the current time, the "now" line could be in an odd place on the screen, like right over near the right-hand end.

Discussing the behaviour details might be best held off until people have had a chance to play with the way I've fixed the current problems with time navigation in the EPG.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:19

jpp wrote:
prl wrote: I may at some stage look at the minimalist approach of just adding "now" shading for non-timer entries, as has been suggested in the topic earlier, but I feel that lightening the now events without timers while keeping full colour saturation for current timer events will look a bit odd.
I would have said that keeping the full colour saturation for now timer events is exactly what you want. Regardless, it still serves the function of indicating clearly when the now timer/record event is going to end. So, you have my full blessing to give the minimalist approach a go - pretty please . If you could provide a switch option for those who don't like it, that would cover everyone's ideology .

I think it's worth focussing on jpp's initial request as the vertical now line is of no benefit to jpp's point of being able to see the end of the now shows. It's not about see what is on now. The issue really relates to the very subtle difference between the different shows, particularly in the full metal graphical epg. A number of people end up using the text epg to get around that, but that has other visual issues.

I'm still keen on looking at working on a skin, and it would be good to have access to the now on formatting even if the default doesn't have it differentiated.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:42

simoncasey wrote:...
I think it's worth focussing on jpp's initial request as the vertical now line is of no benefit to jpp's point of being able to see the end of the now shows. It's not about see what is on now. The issue really relates to the very subtle difference between the different shows, particularly in the full metal graphical epg. A number of people end up using the text epg to get around that, but that has other visual issues.
...

Actually, I think it's a bit unclear to me what jpp's wish actually is in 1) in his original post. If the point was to have clearer distinction of the beginning and end of all programs, then I don't think that the Topfield EPG is a very good example, since it doesn't have particularly high contrast event porders, and the contrast is only improved between the "now" event and the ones that precede and follow it. If clearer separation of all events is what is desired, perhaps all that needs to be done is to have a higher contrast in the event border pixmaps in the skins.

I don't have any difficulty seeing the beginning and end of programs in the Full Metal skin.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:13

prl wrote:
simoncasey wrote:...
I think it's worth focussing on jpp's initial request as the vertical now line is of no benefit to jpp's point of being able to see the end of the now shows. It's not about see what is on now. The issue really relates to the very subtle difference between the different shows, particularly in the full metal graphical epg. A number of people end up using the text epg to get around that, but that has other visual issues.
...
Actually, I think it's a bit unclear to me what jpp's wish actually is in 1) in his original post. If the point was to have clearer distinction of the beginning and end of all programs, then I don't think that the Topfield EPG is a very good example, since it doesn't have particularly high contrast event porders, and the contrast is only improved between the "now" event and the ones that precede and follow it. If clearer separation of all events is what is desired, perhaps all that needs to be done is to have a higher contrast in the event border pixmaps in the skins.

I don't have any difficulty seeing the beginning and end of programs in the Full Metal skin.

jpp wrote: The first is an enhancement to the way the currently running programs are shown on the EPG.

It's been pretty clear from the start that jpp's focus has been on the currently running shows.

Although, I agree that a possibly simpler fix would be to create a better differential between the shows without going to the full on text epg. That was suggested earlier and has been discussed.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:53

prl wrote:
simoncasey wrote:...
I think it's worth focussing on jpp's initial request as the vertical now line is of no benefit to jpp's point of being able to see the end of the now shows. It's not about see what is on now. The issue really relates to the very subtle difference between the different shows, particularly in the full metal graphical epg. A number of people end up using the text epg to get around that, but that has other visual issues.
...
Actually, I think it's a bit unclear to me what jpp's wish actually is in 1) in his original post. If the point was to have clearer distinction of the beginning and end of all programs, then I don't think that the Topfield EPG is a very good example, since it doesn't have particularly high contrast event porders, and the contrast is only improved between the "now" event and the ones that precede and follow it. If clearer separation of all events is what is desired, perhaps all that needs to be done is to have a higher contrast in the event border pixmaps in the skins.

I don't have any difficulty seeing the beginning and end of programs in the Full Metal skin.

But I and some others, my wife included, do, and using the text version of the GEPG only clutters the screen more, thereby making it harder on the eye/brain to visualise the end of the now programs. The aim is to know you need to switch over to a new program (at random, i.e. not a preset ZAP timer event) from the current time-line cursor.

Simon hit the nail on the head/interpreted my aim correctly. It's all about differentiation between the Now programs and the next - knowing where the Now programs end. Once you do this (highlight the Now programs) it's then quite obvious where the next programs start.

An extension of this, making the borders between programs more clearly /easily defined, would be to shade alternate programs. But that would make the whole EPG much busier, so I wouldn't recommend doing that. Just a subtle change in background shading of the Now programs is all that is needed.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 15:21

@jpp,

Were you not advocating JustEPG style EPG user interface for the T4? How do you deal with visualising the end of the current events with JustEPG?

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 16:14

peteru wrote:@jpp,

Were you not advocating JustEPG style EPG user interface for the T4? How do you deal with visualising the end of the current events with JustEPG?

Hi Peter,

A shot of JustEPG below. Just an explanation of the methods/colours used to differentiate between the various attributes of the programs displayed.

Bright White - New programs
Dull White - past programs
Bright Green - now programs
Dull "gold" - Repeat programs
Bright red background currently or now recording programs
Little red tail below Red currently running timer- shows post padding (30min in my case)
Dull red - future recording timers.
Cursor - Yellow; overrides any other colour that lies behind it.
Press the Info key and the text lines above the channels expand to show all of the text. The program boxes below the text simply squash (lose lines) to accommodate the extra text lines.
Press the EPG button again for the second page of the EPG, showing another 9 channels. It's fully configurable like IanSav's OverLay HD skin - colours, no of channels per page - default no of description lines etc etc.

So, as this is a printed style of layout, there is no time-line cursor, but, just below each green text line of the now programs the title of the next program is shown. The "end" of each program is simply the next program name below it. Note that the now program names all line up - you don't have to look up or down (or left or right of the time-line cursor as with a time-line style EPG).

As you can't have the program names aligned in a time-line EPG, the next best thing IMO is to make the now programs stand out clearly from the following programs by highlighting them in some way. This is what I'm getting at when I'm advocating a shading to do this job.

Although the JustEPG style of EPG looks a bit busy initially, your eye is focused on one "box" at the time as each channel has its own borders - no different to reading a typical paper program guide.

If you leave the EPG open, once time passes, it will scroll the programs up the page and the green now line will no longer be the second item on each channel program page, but the next program is still just below the green text line for on now programs.

If you'd like to know more about JustEPG, download this pdf.

JustEPG_Vs_17_Nov_10_post.pdf: (1.39 MiB) Downloaded 88 times

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 18:28

Hi,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I wanted to know if people are still interested in NOW event highlighting? I have been missing this feature and finally had an opportunity to do something about it. The change does not require any changes to skins though OverlayHD will have options added to configure the Now colours.

This is an example of OverlayHD with this feature restored:

: OverlayHD EPG with NOW event highlighting...

This is an example of easy-skin-aus-hd with this feature restored:

: easy-skin-aus-hd EPG with NOW event highlighting...

The feature can be enabled or disabled in the context configuration menu. The default will be disabled so there will be no change unless you want the feature. The new version has been changed so that the highlighting for Record and Zap timers will override the Now highlighting.

The returned feature is currently pending acceptance in the Beyonwiz repository. Some words of support may get it over the line.

Regards,
Ian.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 19:40

Does it work in graphical mode, or are some additional images required to be added to the skin?

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 19:53

Hi MrQuade,

MrQuade wrote:Does it work in graphical mode, or are some additional images required to be added to the skin?

Yes. The original images for this feature were never removed.

: OverlayHD Graphical EPG with NOW event highlighting...

Regards,
Ian.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 20:49

Sweet! Looks good!

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 20:51

Well Ian, you would make my day 10 times over and it would be the Christmas present of the century for me.

It would finally make my T2 my main PVR and relegate my Toppy to backup status.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 21:01

Hi Phil,

Then ask PeterU to accept Pull Request #290.

Regards,
Ian.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 21:06

Hi,

There is also Pull Request #289 that makes the Similar EPG list and the EPG Search lists match the Single Channel EPG list. That is the day and date in column 1 and the event start and end times in column 2.

Regards,
Ian.

jpp · Post by **jpp** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 21:28

IanSav wrote:Hi Phil,

Then ask PeterU to accept Pull Request #290.

Regards,
Ian.

Done!.

I'm not sure if this is the place to do it Peter, but you know I place a great deal of importance on the presentation of an EPG. Ian's development/reinstatement of the Now Showing highlighting is to me a very strong at a glance type of visual indication of the end of the currently showing programs, allowing you to see quickly where each program ends and so to get an instant overall picture. I think I've said enough and have made my arguments for this change/reinstatement on this topic almost ad nauseam so I'll leave it at this

.

Paul_oz53 · Post by **Paul_oz53** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 14:20

jpp wrote:
IanSav wrote:Hi Phil,

Then ask PeterU to accept Pull Request #290.

Regards,
Ian.
Done!.

I'm not sure if this is the place to do it Peter, but you know I place a great deal of importance on the presentation of an EPG. Ian's development/reinstatement of the Now Showing highlighting is to me a very strong at a glance type of visual indication of the end of the currently showing programs, allowing you to see quickly where each program ends and so to get an instant overall picture. I think I've said enough and have made my arguments for this change/reinstatement on this topic almost ad nauseam so I'll leave it at this .

+1

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 14:46

Personally, I find the existing indication of the currently showing programs (the "now" line) just fine, though I have no objection to IanSav's suggestion (it can be enabled and disabled by a setting).

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 03:14

Acceptance of code into the repository is not just about the function or feature that it delivers.

The other main criteria are quality of implementation and the format of the submitted contribution.

As much as IanSav would like to rally others to support his work, lobbying on his behalf will have no effect when it comes to making the technical decisions as to whether the code can be merged or not. In fact, responding to the posts here just eats into the time I have for reviewing the code changes.

Rest assured that good ideas that are implemented cleanly and submitted correctly will be incorporated expediently.

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