SBS EPG/Timer description

[adoxa]

Looks like SBS is now including consumer advice (and country) in the EPG short description, which is good, but that's what the timer uses for its description, which is bad. For myself I've hacked it to ignore a short description containing Consumer Advice:, using the extended description instead; I could turn it into a plugin for those that want it. Any thoughts on how to handle the description more generally?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Pricks. What a mess that's going to create with AutoTimer definitions and uniqueness. The short description will be the same for all episodes.
e.g.

Code: Select all

{
 "events": [
  {
   "begin": "13:59", 
   "sname": "SBS VICELAND HD", 
   "end": "14:26", 
   "title": "Drunk History", 
   "now_timestamp": null, 
   "shortdesc": "Consumer Advice: A, L", 
   "sref": "1:0:19:326:320:3202:EEEE0000:0:0:0:", 
   "begin_timestamp": 1575525599, 
   "duration": 26, 
   "duration_sec": 1565, 
   "picon": "/picon/1_0_19_326_320_3202_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png", 
   "longdesc": "Katharine Wright helps her brothers build an airplane; the Kopp sisters fight to protect their home; the Fox sisters stoke the spiritualism craze.", 
   "date": "Thu 05.12.2019", 
   "genreid": 0, 
   "genre": "", 
   "id": 35114
  }, 
  {
   "begin": "13:55", 
   "sname": "SBS VICELAND HD", 
   "end": "14:25", 
   "title": "Drunk History", 
   "now_timestamp": null, 
   "shortdesc": "Consumer Advice: A, L", 
   "sref": "1:0:19:326:320:3202:EEEE0000:0:0:0:", 
   "begin_timestamp": 1575611700, 
   "duration": 30, 
   "duration_sec": 1800, 
   "picon": "/picon/1_0_19_326_320_3202_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png", 
   "longdesc": "Mayor La Guardia fights the mob over artichokes, Julia Child meets the love of her life while working as a spy; a molasses flood devastates Boston.", 
   "date": "Fri 06.12.2019", 
   "genreid": 0, 
   "genre": "", 
   "id": 35156
  }, 
  {
   "begin": "14:25", 
   "sname": "SBS VICELAND HD", 
   "end": "14:50", 
   "title": "Drunk History", 
   "now_timestamp": null, 
   "shortdesc": "Consumer Advice: A, L", 
   "sref": "1:0:19:326:320:3202:EEEE0000:0:0:0:", 
   "begin_timestamp": 1575613500, 
   "duration": 25, 
   "duration_sec": 1500, 
   "picon": "/picon/1_0_19_326_320_3202_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png", 
   "longdesc": "Lin-Manuel Miranda tells the story of Alexander Hamilton, his nemesis Aaron Burr and their infamous duel to the death.", 
   "date": "Fri 06.12.2019", 
   "genreid": 0, 
   "genre": "", 
   "id": 35157
  }
 ], 
 "result": true
}

[prl]

It all boils down to the fact that the FreeTV Operational Practice document on the short and long descriptions basically says "put pretty much whatever you like in them".

And they do.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Any thoughts on how to handle the description more generally?

As you say, good and bad.
The bad being it has an affect on the timer and breaks the AutoTimer plugin uniqueness description test.
As you know, the AutoTimer plugin grabs the short description from the EPG.
A recording grabs both descriptions doesn't it (the short desc goes into the .meta file and the short and extended go into the .eit file)? So an AutoTimer uniqueness recording restriction on the description will also be buggered as the recording's short desc will have the country/consumer advice line.

This leads to my thinking that when populating the EPG, an event with a short description matching the below types should have the short description appended to the extended description and the short description then nuked.
Consumer Advice: {string}
From {string}. Consumer Advice: {string}
From {string}
That last entry may be problematic, as {string} would need to be restricted to being of a short length (maybe 3 words).

This way the info is not lost for those folk who may want it.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Going by the lack of discussion on this, it appears this may not affect many users, certainly none that use IceTV, nor those that don't use AutoTimers for timer creation, or if they do they don't use its uniqueness restrictions ('Require description to be unique' / 'Check for uniqueness in {short|all} description(s)').

Given that, is it possible for you to create me a "Swat Shorty" plugin that moves the qualifying short description for an event by appending it to the extended description when the EIT EPG is being populated?

[peteru]

I'm pretty sure that this dick move by SBS will affect a lot of Beyonwiz users, but it will take a while for people to realise what's happening.

There are a few options to deal with this, some include:

• 1. Modify the EIT parsing code to undo the SBS mess.
• 2. Modify the EPG database code to undo the SBS mess.
• 3. Enhance metadata/timer/autotimer code to deal with the SBS mess only.
• 4. Enhance metadata/timer/autotimer code to be more intelligent about arbitrary use of these field by broadcasters.

I don't think 1 is workable. Option 2 is a fragile patch. Option 3 is not much better, but requires changes in more places. Option 4 is architecturally preferred, but it could be a lot of work that may need to be pushed upstream. If the changes happen to cascade into OWIF, this could prove to be quite a task.

Beats me why SBS would do something this stupid. They could just use the ratings field or append this garbage to the end of the extended description. Perhaps the best course of action would be to get as many people as possible to contact SBS and ask them to change how they deliver this information.

[adoxa]

Here's a plugin that swaps the short and extended descriptions if the short is empty, contains Consumer Advice:, or starts with From and all words start with a capital. Alternatively, an option is provided to make the short description the combination of extended and short, removing the extended (e.g.: short: From Country.; extended: Description of the movie. becomes short: Description of the movie.  From Country.; extended: empty). Another option is provided to append the extended to the short (Short - Extended), but only for the OWIF EPG.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Initially it appeared to work, swapping the qualifying descriptions.

But then bang -

Code: Select all

{3780}<  2968.378> [eEPGCache] lookup events, title starting with '2019 FORMULA 1' (ignore case)
{3625}<  2968.381> [Task] >>> Error: [<Components.Task.FailedPostcondition instance at 0xb1088418>]
{3625}<  2968.382> [Task] job Components.Task.Job name=AutoTimer #tasks=87 completed with [<Components.Task.FailedPostcondition instance at 0xb1088418>] in Components.Task.Task name=2019 FORMULA 1_0
{3625}<  2968.382> [Task] unrecoverable task failure
{3625}<  2968.383> AutoTimer
Error: [Failure instance: Traceback: <type 'exceptions.TypeError'>: 'NoneType' object is not iterable
/usr/lib/python2.7/threading.py:801:__bootstrap_inner
/usr/lib/python2.7/threading.py:754:run
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/twisted/_threads/_threadworker.py:46:work
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/twisted/_threads/_team.py:190:doWork
--- <exception caught here> ---
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/twisted/python/threadpool.py:250:inContext
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/twisted/python/threadpool.py:266:<lambda>
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/twisted/python/context.py:122:callWithContext
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/twisted/python/context.py:85:callWithContext
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/AutoTimer/AutoTimer.py:330:JobStart
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/AutoTimer/AutoTimer.py:422:parseTimer
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/Deswapper/hook.py:21:run
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/Deswapper/hook.py:87:search
]{3625}<  2968.383> 
{3625}<  2968.388> [ActionMap] action(s) 'downRepeated, upRepeated, rightRepeated, leftRepeated' not in context(s) 'MsgBoxActions, DirectionActions'
{3625}<  2968.389> [Skin] processing screen MessageBoxSimple:
{3625}<  2968.400> [Skin] processing screen MessageBoxSimple_summary:
{3625}<  2968.403> [SCREENNAME]  ['MessageBoxSimple_summary', 'SimpleSummary']
{3625}<  2968.404> [SCREENNAME]  ['MessageBoxSimple']
{3625}<  2968.405> [Task] not retrying job.

Now the SBS EPG events are back to the crappy "SBS" way (short description with 'From/Consumer Advice').

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Now the SBS EPG events are back to the crappy "SBS" way (short description with 'From/Consumer Advice').

Nah, the EPG display via the UI is fine, it's the EPG display via OWIF that's still showing the duff short desc.

[raymondjpg]

Pricks. What a mess that's going to create with AutoTimer definitions and uniqueness. The short description will be the same for all episodes.

Not just episodes by the looks of it, but all programming with the same consumer advice. I've just cancelled all autotimer uniqueness options for SBS for now, and put up with disabling repeats.

A plugin would be handy, but the longer term solution would be for pressure to be brought to bear on SBS to reverse this move. I don't know how or where this pressure might come from or be applied.

Thanks to adoxa for picking this up.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

... or starts with From , the next letter is capital and ends with alphanumeric.

The 'From {country}' only matching isn't working, the descriptions aren't being swapped.
Examples -
"shortdesc": "From France."
"shortdesc": "From China."
Perhaps the full-stop?

Edit - likely the full-stop, as this one is correctly swapped on display -
"shortdesc": "From France"
"longdesc": "Nicolas has a happy existence, parents who love him, a great group of friends with whom he has great fun, and all he wants is that nothing changes."

[IanSav]

Hi,

Perhaps this SBS change should be the impetus to progress with adding CRID processing to the Timers / AutoTimers. Matching on text stings is never going to be a reliable solution.

Regards,
Ian.

[adoxa]

CRIDs aren't exactly reliable, either (it's possible a repeat on the same network but different channel has a different CRID; repeats on different networks definitely have different CRIDs). WIN still doesn't have any at all.

I've fixed the crash and the "From" (now every word must start with a capital), but still working on OWIF. Since OWIF looks to only display the short description in the EPG I've also swapped an empty short. I've added an option to prepend extended to short, blanking the extended (in light of what OWIF wants). E.g. short = "From Country.", extended = "Something about the movie." -> short = "Something about the movie. From Country.", extended = "".

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I've fixed the crash and the "From" (now every word must start with a capital), but still working on OWIF.

Okay, thanks.

[IanSav]

Hi Adoxa,

CRIDs aren't exactly reliable, either (it's possible a repeat on the same network but different channel has a different CRID; repeats on different networks definitely have different CRIDs). WIN still doesn't have any at all.

As a guess I would suggest that for the bulk of AutoTimers currently in use across Australia CRIDs would be much better than text matching. I am not suggesting that text matching be removed but that adding CRIDs could allow for better event matching where CRIDs are in use.

Regards,
Ian.

[prl]

IIRC, last time I looked, CRIDs weren't particularly useful for series recording.

Using them in AutoTimers would mean either AutoTimer code having a fairly big chunk of functionality dependent on the C++ code having CRID capability, or pushing the CRID capability into all upstreams (and their other downstreams) that use AutoTimer.

I have no idea what CRID support is like (or how it's used) in other enigma2 markets.

[adoxa]

IIRC, last time I looked, CRIDs weren't particularly useful for series recording.

Not at all, see here (in general, the series id of a show changes with each season, possibly even each channel).

I've updated the plugin (in the previous post), which should now work with OWIF (in addition to the other fixes).

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I've updated the plugin (in the previous post), which should now work with OWIF (in addition to the other fixes).

"Much more betterer"
I have yet to try the "prepend" option, but the previously unmoved "From's" now move, and the AutoTimer plugin doesn't crash.
The OWIF EPG grid is full of shorties

[raymondjpg]

I've updated the plugin (in the previous post), which should now work with OWIF (in addition to the other fixes).

Appears to be working a treat here too. Thanks for the fix.

What happens if SBS reverses their decision? From what I can gather it wouldn't make any visible difference to what appears as the short description in the BW EPG, but wouldn't it be wise to uninstall the plugin just in case?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

What happens if SBS reverses their decision? From what I can gather it wouldn't make any visible difference to what appears as the short description in the BW EPG, but wouldn't it be wise to uninstall the plugin just in case?

You can disable it via 'Deswapper Setup' in the Plugin Browser.
That's also where you can enable 'Prepend extended to short'.

[adoxa]

It looks like OWIF's EPG only uses the short description, so there'd still be a benefit there in swapping an empty short with the extended (assuming that's what would happen; if they use short instead of extended then there's no need).

[Grumpy_Geoff]

It looks like OWIF's EPG only uses the short description, so there'd still be a benefit there in swapping an empty short with the extended (assuming that's what would happen; if they use short instead of extended then there's no need).

Yes, the OWIF EPG grid display only shows the short description (up to 70 characters, word split). It'll also show the full short and the extended description if you click on an event.

As I posted above, the OWIF EPG grid now shows a lot more event descriptions across all services due to this plugin assigning an extended description to an empty short description.

[raymondjpg]

Yes, the OWIF EPG grid display only shows the short description (up to 70 characters, word split). It'll also show the full short and the extended description if you click on an event.

As I posted above, the OWIF EPG grid now shows a lot more event descriptions across all services due to this plugin assigning an extended description to an empty short description.

From what you're saying the plugin is applying itself to all services, not just SBS. So I'll just let sleeping dogs lie for now, live with the situation with autotimers as it was before, and look into the 'Prepend extended to short' option if I see some significant benefit. A quick scan of the OWIF EPG grid for today showed very few programs with an empty short description, but on the other hand the extended option might allow for some further benefit to autotimer uniqueness options. I haven't looked into that yet.

[adoxa]

While I'm manipulating descriptions there's a couple of other things I could do: remove the duplicate cast list from Nine (or is it just SCA?); and remove WIN's totally unhelpful space-dot-space extended "description".

[Grumpy_Geoff]

While I'm manipulating descriptions there's a couple of other things I could do: remove the duplicate cast list from Nine (or is it just SCA?);

Might be SCA, as 9 Perth doesn't have it duplicated, for example -
"title": "Good Will Hunting (1998)",
"shortdesc": "Good Will Hunting",
"longdesc": "When professors at MIT discover that an aimless janitor is a math genius, a therapist helps the young man confront the demons that are holding him back. (Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Robin Williams, Minnie Driver)",

[prl]

IIRC, last time I looked, CRIDs weren't particularly useful for series recording.

Not at all, see here (in general, the series id of a show changes with each season, possibly even each channel).

If anyone is interested in continuing the discussion of CRIDs and in particular, using them to improve AutoTimers, I have replied to adoxa's post in some detail here in an existing topic about CRIDs explaining why I don't think that they're really usable (including the reasons that adoxa gives in his post).

[adoxa]

Might be SCA, as 9 Perth doesn't have it duplicated

I think what we have is:
short: "When professors at MIT discover that an aimless janitor is a math genius, a therapist helps the young man confront the demons that are holding him back."
long: "(Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Robin Williams, Minnie Driver) Starring: Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Robin Williams, Minnie Driver"

Some other shows have it all in the short (maybe this does, too, with a newline).

[prl]

I have seen the description duplicated in the short and long descriptors in some services in the past. When the code combines them into a FullDescription (short_descriptor separator long_descriptor), it uses the long descriptor for the FullDescription if the short and long descriptors are the same in their first 20 characters.

I've also seen EPG entries whose "long" descriptor is the single character ".".

I get the impression that the care factor for consistent use of short and long descriptors across broadcasters is almost non-existent. OP 44 supports this lack of consistency by its vagueness:

The purpose of the extended_event_descriptor is to provide a longer text description or synopsis of an event, which may be used either in addition, or complimentary [sic] to, the short_event_descriptor.

However, SBS's current use of the short descriptor is probably contrary to the intent of OP 44: "a short description of the event in text form".

[Grumpy_Geoff]

From what you're saying the plugin is applying itself to all services, not just SBS. So I'll just let sleeping dogs lie for now, live with the situation with autotimers as it was before, and look into the 'Prepend extended to short' option if I see some significant benefit. A quick scan of the OWIF EPG grid for today showed very few programs with an empty short description, but on the other hand the extended option might allow for some further benefit to autotimer uniqueness options. I haven't looked into that yet.

I don't believe the Deswapper plugin influences the behaviour of the AutoTimer plugin. The AutoTimer plugin has always used a copy of the extended description as the contents for the short description if the short description was empty/null.
So in regards to the AutoTimer plugin, the end result is the same whether Deswapper is used or not.
As stated, Deswapper has a positive impact on the OWIF EPG grid (and of course, on its raison d'etre).

Further, I'd advise against using using AutoTimers' uniqueness check specifying 'Check for uniqueness in all descriptions'.
I've previously posted about what I believe is a code bug in the handling of the extended description.

[raymondjpg]

I don't believe the Deswapper plugin influences the behaviour of the AutoTimer plugin. The AutoTimer plugin has always used a copy of the extended description as the contents for the short description if the short description was empty/null.
So in regards to the AutoTimer plugin, the end result is the same whether Deswapper is used or not.

Confirms my resolve to leave things as they are, thank you.

As stated, Deswapper has a positive impact on the OWIF EPG grid (and of course, on its raison d'etre).

I'm more concerned that an IceTV enabled T2 shows absolutely no program description, short or long, in the OWIF grid. I'm not about to try the Deswapper plugin there, because from what I understand, it would make no difference.

Further, I'd advise against using using AutoTimers' uniqueness check specifying 'Check for uniqueness in all descriptions'.
I've previously posted about what I believe is a code bug in the handling of the extended description.

Where would I find that option? I'm on firmware 17.5.20190207.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

As stated, Deswapper has a positive impact on the OWIF EPG grid (and of course, on its raison d'etre).

I'm more concerned that an IceTV enabled T2 shows absolutely no program description, short or long, in the OWIF grid. I'm not about to try the Deswapper plugin there, because from what I understand, it would make no difference.

No issue here with OWIF on a T2 using IceTV EPG -
Cricket: Women's Big Bash League
2019/20 - Semi Finals 1 - Adelaide Strikers V Perth Scorchers
The Allan Border Field hosts the high profile Semi Final 1 between the Strikers and the Scorchers, both of whom are looking for their first title. Both these teams are aiming for the top, and neither will be giving a quarter.

The EPG event extract via OWIF -

Code: Select all

{
 "events": [
  {
   "begin": "08:00", 
   "sname": "7mate Perth", 
   "end": "11:30", 
   "title": "Cricket: Women's Big Bash League", 
   "now_timestamp": null, 
   "shortdesc": "2019/20 - Semi Finals 1 - Adelaide Strikers V Perth Scorchers", 
   "sref": "1:0:1:563:506:1013:EEEE0000:0:0:0:", 
   "begin_timestamp": 1575676800, 
   "duration": 210, 
   "duration_sec": 12600, 
   "picon": "/picon/1_0_1_563_506_1013_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png", 
   "longdesc": "The Allan Border Field hosts the high profile Semi Final 1 between the Strikers and the Scorchers, both of whom are looking for their first title. Both these teams are aiming for the top, and neither will be giving a quarter.", 
   "date": "Sat 07.12.2019", 
   "genreid": 64, 
   "genre": "Sports: sports (general)", 
   "id": 54705
  },

Further, I'd advise against using using AutoTimers' uniqueness check specifying 'Check for uniqueness in all descriptions'.
I've previously posted about what I believe is a code bug in the handling of the extended description.

Where would I find that option? I'm on firmware 17.5.20190207.

OWIF doesn't have the setting, you need to use the UI to set/alter for individual definitions.
The AutoTimer plugin has the default value of 'Title and all descriptions'. See here where previously I've detailed how to set a "more appropriate" default.
Priority -
1. Individual definition
2. AutoTimer definitions default (stored in 'defaults' section of autotimer.xml file)
3. AutoTimer plugin code default

My definition defaults -

Code: Select all

 <defaults avoidDuplicateDescription="1" searchForDuplicateDescription="1">
  <bouquet>1:7:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:FROM BOUQUET "userbouquet.favourites.tv" ORDER BY bouquet</bouquet>
 </defaults>

[raymondjpg]

No issue here with OWIF on a T2 using IceTV EPG -

I just see:

Cricket: Women's Big Bash League
2019/20 - Semi Finals 1 - Adelaide Strikers V Perth Scorchers

i.e. the title, and what I call subtitle. The rest of it will become visible if clicking on the EPG entry.

This is what I mean:

The T2 with IceTV EPG grid:

IceTV T2 OWIF EPG grid.jpg (56.54 KiB) Viewed 5572 times

The U4 with FTA EPG grid:

IceTV U4 OWIF EPG grid.jpg (76.31 KiB) Viewed 5572 times

OWIF doesn't have the setting, you need to use the UI to set/alter for individual definitions.
The AutoTimer plugin has the default value of 'Title and all descriptions'. See here where previously I've detailed how to set a "more appropriate" default.
Priority -
1. Individual definition
2. AutoTimer definitions default (stored in 'defaults' section of autotimer.xml file)
3. AutoTimer plugin code default

Thanks for the clarification. I don't think I've ever enabled that option, nor do I have any intention of so doing.

Edit: The second image should read FTA U4 OWIF EPG grid. A casualty of image title copy and paste.

[prl]

i.e. the title, and what I call subtitle. The rest of it will become visible if clicking on the EPG entry.

Just to clarify the terminology...

In the FTA EPG, the three descriptive text fields are:
(event) name (event_name_char part of the short_event_descriptor)
short (event) description (text_char part of the short_event_descriptor)
extended (event) description (text_char part of extended_event_descriptor)

The extended_event_descriptor can also have a list of tagged text items, but these are not used in Australian FTA, and the code that handles them has been commented out in the enigma2 source code. They would potentially be useful for holding other IceTV event metadata that doesn't have a way of being directly represented in the FTA EPG format, like credits.

In the FTA EPG, there is no consistent use for the contents of the two description fields.

In IceTV, all the IceTV data that is used is stored in the same format as the FTA EPG. The IceTV name use is consistent, and the IceTV fields are named, and stored in the EPG as:
title (The title of the show; stored in event name)
sub-title (The episode name for this show, if applicable; stored in short event description)
desc (The extended programme description of this show; stored in extended event description)

I don't think that the IceTV convention is followed in the EPGs of any of the FTA broadcasters.

[raymondjpg]

In the FTA EPG, there is no consistent use for the contents of the two description fields.

Nevertheless there is, to my eye, consistently more program description information in the FTA OWIF EPG grid than in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid.

I don't think that the IceTV convention is followed in the EPGs of any of the FTA broadcasters.

That may well be so, but to my eye , apart from the clear benefit of having a subtitle, there is consistently less program description information in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid than in the FTA OWIF EPG grid.

We've been over all this before. I'm just restating my preference. We live with what is served up, I understand that, but I can still hope for something better.

[adoxa]

Nevertheless there is, to my eye, consistently more program description information in the FTA OWIF EPG grid than in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid.

Presumably if IceTV has no subtitle information then there's no short description, so the OWIF EPG doesn't show anything. That's where Deswapper will help, as it will replace the empty short with the extended, thus providing the description in OWIF (and it shouldn't affect the normal EPG, as that either uses both or whichever one isn't blank).

[prl]

In the FTA EPG, there is no consistent use for the contents of the two description fields.

Nevertheless there is, to my eye, consistently more program description information in the FTA OWIF EPG grid than in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid.

Except for SBS, of course, whose idiosyncratic choice of the contents of the short description in their FTA EPG was the original theme of this topic:

Screen Shot 2019-12-07 at 16.26.21.png (18.2 KiB) Viewed 5540 times

I don't think that the IceTV convention is followed in the EPGs of any of the FTA broadcasters.

That may well be so, but to my eye , apart from the clear benefit of having a subtitle, there is consistently less program description information in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid than in the FTA OWIF EPG grid.

We've been over all this before. I'm just restating my preference. We live with what is served up, I understand that, but I can still hope for something better.

The OWIF grid EPG displays the title (black, bold) and short description (blue) in the grid, and when you click on the entry, it displays the title (black, large bold), the short description (black bold) and the extended description (black).

If the EPG source is IceTV, the grid shows the title and subtitle (episode name or number, if appropriate), and the popup shows the title, subtitle and program synopsis, consistently across all channels.

In the ACT FTA guide, the ABC, Prime and Nine/SCA channels show the title and synopsis/short description in the grid, and the same in the popup. SBS channels show the title and "Consumer Advice" in the grid, and the title, "Consumer Advice" and program synopsis in the popup. WIN channels show the title and synopsis/short description in the grid, and the title, synopsis/short description and the single character "." as the extended description in the popup.

The whole thing is just an inconsistent mess, and it's not really the fault of OWIF that it is.

[raymondjpg]

In the ACT FTA guide, the ABC, Prime and Nine/SCA channels show the title and synopsis/short description in the grid, and the same in the popup. SBS channels show the title and "Consumer Advice" in the grid, and the title, "Consumer Advice" and program synopsis in the popup. WIN channels show the title and synopsis/short description in the grid, and the title, synopsis/short description and the single character "." as the extended description in the popup.

The whole thing is just an inconsistent mess, and it's not really the fault of OWIF that it is.

Yes, yes yes. But for all that, and now having the benefit of the Deswapper plugin to reverse what SBS visited upon the short description, I would rather see whatever this mess delivers in terms of program descriptions in the FTA OWIF EPG grid, than whatever I cannot see in the IceTV Owif EPG grid.

[raymondjpg]

Presumably if IceTV has no subtitle information then there's no short description, so the OWIF EPG doesn't show anything. That's where Deswapper will help, as it will replace the empty short with the extended, thus providing the description in OWIF (and it shouldn't affect the normal EPG, as that either uses both or whichever one isn't blank).

Good point, but the one thing I really do value in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid is the subtitle. Most of what I am interested in has this subtitle field populated, so implementing the Deswapper plugin in the IceTV enabled PVR would be of little benefit to me. Others may take a different view.

[prl]

Good point, but the one thing I really do value in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid is the subtitle. Most of what I am interested in has this subtitle field populated, so implementing the Deswapper plugin in the IceTV enabled PVR would be of little benefit to me. Others may take a different view.

The short description (subtitle in IceTV) field is populated in pretty much all cases except for IceTV programs that have no episode information (like movies).

Your issue seems to be more about what the short description field is populated with.

[raymondjpg]

Your issue seems to be more about what the short description field is populated with.

You could say that, if the OWIF EPG grid display is strictly limited to Title and Short Description. in that case I would prefer to see the Short Description populated with something like Subtitle (bolded) with a CR/LF (or at least a space or a dash) then a short program description. If it is not limited in that way, then some other option that does deliver both the Subtitle and short program description. I had hoped that the combined intellect in this place would be able to come up with something of the sort.

[prl]

The problem is more of data (in)compatibility issues than anything else.

IceTV is the only Australian EPG source for enigma2 that uses the short description as a subtitle. Apart from the SBS, the other FTA EPG data has the synopsis in the short description. IMO SBS has their short and extended descriptions reversed: IMO the rating and other information that they put in the short description is actually the sort of complementary information that OP-44 says should go in the extended description. I hope that they change them to be more consistent with the other broadcasters and with OP-44.

The way that the OWIF grid EPG handles subtitle and synopsis for IceTV is actually quite similar to the way it's done in the IceTV Web pages and app: title and subtitle in the compact view of the EPG, and click to see detail. That's no reason to like it more if you don't like it, but I think it shows that it's not an unreasonable design choice.

Remember, too, that any changes to OWIF (rather than PVR-side hacks using plugins) will need to work in other enigma2 markets, too. They seem to be happy with the way it works now, or presumably they would have done something about it already.

[raymondjpg]

IceTV is the only Australian EPG source for enigma2 that uses the short description as a subtitle.

If you are saying that the decision to populate the Short Description field with a subtitle lies with IceTV, then I'll leave it be. I've had occasion to defend IceTV's recent decision to strip out some user-defined options recently, conscious of their concern to contain costs, and I wouldn't want to burden them any more than they need be at this time.

adoxa, in this thread, offered some other EPG modifications; perhaps there is an opportunity here to manipulate the IceTV EPG to combine the subtitle and synopsis in the short description in a plugin. Just as an example, and not to set it up as an ideal, TV Scheduler Pro combines this information from the IceTV XML EPG feed in its EPG grid. Information presented there looks like a straight CR/LF following the subtitle leading on to the synopsis.

Remember, too, that any changes to OWIF (rather than PVR-side hacks using plugins) will need to work in other enigma2 markets, too. They seem to be happy with the way it works now, or presumably they would have done something about it already.

I wouldn't be advocating any changes to OWIF, I don't think that's where the problem lies.

[prl]

IceTV is the only Australian EPG source for enigma2 that uses the short description as a subtitle.

If you are saying that the decision to populate the Short Description field with a subtitle lies with IceTV, then I'll leave it be.

No, that's not IceTV's decision. It was peteru's decision to put the IceTV sub-title field into the EPG's short description and to put the IceTV field desc into the long description. It's a decision that I support, because I see no better alternative. How would you have encoded them? Remember, that IceTV data can only go into the data descriptors that are permitted in the DVB Event Information Table.

The available descriptors are:
stuffing_descriptor
linkage_descriptor
short_event_descriptor *
extended_event_descriptor *
time_shifted_event_descriptor
component_descriptor
CA_identifier_descriptor
content_descriptor *
parental_rating_descriptor *
multilingual_component_descriptor
private_data_specifier_descriptor
short_smoothing_buffer_descriptor
data_broadcast_descriptor
PDC_descriptor
TVA_id_descriptor
content_identifier_descriptor **
XAIT location descriptor
FTA_content_management_descriptor
extension descriptor

* Used by existing code (and filled from IceTV EPG data)
** Experimental code exists to use this descriptor (but not yet to fill it from IceTV EPG data)

The content_descriptor contains what's commonly called the genres, and is filled from the category field in the IceTV EPG.

The extended_event_descriptor allows for tagged text fields as well as the un-tagged text that's currently used in some FTA EPG data, and for the IceTV desc field. It could be used to support richer metadata display for IceTV by including IceTV fields like credits, date, language, country, and possibly, when it gets implemented, star-rating as tagged extended_event_descriptor fields.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

OWIF doesn't have the setting, you need to use the UI to set/alter for individual definitions.
The AutoTimer plugin has the default value of 'Title and all descriptions'. See here where previously I've detailed how to set a "more appropriate" default.
Priority -
1. Individual definition
2. AutoTimer definitions default (stored in 'defaults' section of autotimer.xml file)
3. AutoTimer plugin code default

Thanks for the clarification. I don't think I've ever enabled that option, nor do I have any intention of so doing.

In the OWIF AutoTimer page, if you set a timer/recording uniqueness check (i.e. set option 'Require description to be unique:' to anything other than 'No'), then the AutoTimer plugin will default to using 'Check for uniqueness in Title and all descriptions'. If the program event has no short description, only an extended description, then I think the uniqueness check fails to detect it as a duplicate as timers have only one description.
With Deswapper swapping around an empty short description with the non-empty extended description then this should now make the "buggy" extended description test a non-issue (with an enabled Deswapper plugin of course).

[adoxa]

I've updated the plugin (in its original post) to add another option to combine short and extended descriptions (Short - Extended) in the OWIF EPG (or anything else that uses its particular search, but I think the OWIF EPG is the only one). (BTW, if you want more than three lines in the description use something like Stylish to modify the .desc style.)

[raymondjpg]

How would you have encoded them?

That is something I'm definitely not competent to comment, or speculate upon. I can only reiterate that my preference would be to see information from the two fields of short and long descriptors combined. I would also definitely not be in favour of abandoning the subtitle information, something that I value from the IceTV EPG.

[raymondjpg]

In the OWIF AutoTimer page, if you set a timer/recording uniqueness check (i.e. set option 'Require description to be unique:' to anything other than 'No'), then the AutoTimer plugin will default to using 'Check for uniqueness in Title and all descriptions'. If the program event has no short description, only an extended description, then I think the uniqueness check fails to detect it as a duplicate as timers have only one description.
With Deswapper swapping around an empty short description with the non-empty extended description then this should now make the "buggy" extended description test a non-issue (with an enabled Deswapper plugin of course).

Thanks once again. My determination not to play about with the autotimer settings was predicated on my experience that, on the whole. autotimers were working just fine for me as they were. So what for me was a non-issue now becomes doubly so.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I've updated the plugin (in its original post) to add another option to combine short and extended descriptions (Short - Extended) in the OWIF EPG (or anything else that uses its particular search, but I think the OWIF EPG is the only one).

I think the OWIF EPG (grid and event popup) doesn't show the short destription field if it matches the event name, thus your new option will now show that text and we'll see a "repeat" of it. Just an observation.

[raymondjpg]

I've updated the plugin (in its original post) to add another option to combine short and extended descriptions (Short - Extended) in the OWIF EPG (or anything else that uses its particular search, but I think the OWIF EPG is the only one). (BTW, if you want more than three lines in the description use something like Stylish to modify the .desc style.)

Wow! Thanks once again. I will try it on my IceTV enabled T2 as soon as I can get to it. I might even be encouraged to try and modify the .desc style, as currently the FTA OWIF EPG displays three lines, but combining the short and extended descriptions might need something like four.