SBS EPG/Timer description

[raymondjpg]

However, returning back to the mess that SBS have made - I think it is important for consumers to let SBS know that the new EPG descriptions are not acceptable. Best way to do that is for everyone affected to send them an email to tell them that the new data is not wanted in the short description field and should be appended to extended description. It's probably best not to mention any specific brand of device, or if you must, point out that the problem is evident on all brands, not just Beyonwiz. The email address to use is ATS@sbs.com.au

I applaud your suggestion, but fear that SBS is not very receptive to helpful suggestions. For example, they not only appear capriciously to change program titles, perhaps to their own taste, but also manage to get the titles of some programs spectacularly wrong, despite this being pointed out to them. I'd suggest ACMA but my experience with them has not been stellar. I did contact them once with a question about advertising standards, which they appeared to completely ignore.

[peteru]

No, that's not IceTV's decision. It was peteru's decision to put the IceTV sub-title field into the EPG's short description and to put the IceTV field desc into the long description.

The data mapping is a result of several technical discussions with IceTV, with very strong input from their side. IceTV have been well aware for decades that their data modelling does not reflect how broadcast TV works, but they choose to persist with their own internal scheme and try to map this to various external schemes. I think it is fair to say that the decision is mostly IceTV's.

However, returning back to the mess that SBS have made - I think it is important for consumers to let SBS know that the new EPG descriptions are not acceptable. Best way to do that is for everyone affected to send them an email to tell them that the new data is not wanted in the short description field and should be appended to extended description. It's probably best not to mention any specific brand of device, or if you must, point out that the problem is evident on all brands, not just Beyonwiz. The email address to use is ATS@sbs.com.au

[peteru]

that SBS is not very receptive to helpful suggestions.

Probably not to an individual or two. However, if they see a large volume of complaints about a particular thing, they are more likely to act. Squeaky wheel...

[prl]

The standards, such as they are, for the information in the FTA EPG, are not set by the ACMA. They are set by FreeTV, a broadcaster's consortium.

But IMO what SBS has done with the short desc is contrary to the FreeTV OP-44 document.

[raymondjpg]

The standards, such as they are, for the information in the FTA EPG, are not set by the ACMA. They are set by FreeTV, a broadcaster's consortium.

That hardly inspires confidence that something will be done about it. Self-regulation only seems to work if a Royal Commission is mooted.

[prl]

For anyone trying to code around the SBS EPG issue, and perhaps for people who want to write for the SBS about it, all the SBS short descriptions in the ACT FTA EPG from SBS are in the form:
[From country.] [Consumer Advice: rating]
The short description is often empty (has neither) and the space between them is only present when both fields are present.

Some examples:
From France.
Consumer Advice: S, A.
From The United Kingdom. Consumer Advice: S, L.

[prl]

On looking at OP-44 again, it actually describes the intended use of the short_event_descriptor (text_char field) better than I thought:

Broadcasters shall provide either the “episode” name (as the title of the scheduled episode), or other brief information further describing the program, in the text_char field ...

So one of the explicit intentions is to use the short description for the episode name.

The rather old draft of AS 4599 that I have is even stronger on the use:

Australian broadcasters have provided guidance in the use of the short_event_descriptor for the transmission and display of the name of the scheduled program event and the episode name

It appears that this is, across all broadcasters, as Hamlet put it, "a custom. More honor'd in the breach than the observance."

But anyway, as far as the standards go, the IceTV use of the description fields seems to better fit the standards than the broadcasters' use of them (and not just SBS).

The relevant FreeTV Operational Practice documents are:
https://www.freetv.com.au/wp-content/up ... r-2014.pdf
https://www.freetv.com.au/wp-content/up ... r-2014.pdf

[adoxa]

I think the OWIF EPG (grid and event popup) doesn't show the short destription field if it matches the event name, thus your new option will now show that text and we'll see a "repeat" of it. Just an observation.

You're right (I was originally going to do it another way where this was taken into account, but that didn't work out, so ended up doing it in Deswapper, where I promptly forgot about it). Updated the plugin, again: if the appending option is enabled and the name matches the short, the short will become the extended.

[prl]

This is a draft text of an email that I'm intending to send to ATS@sbs.com.au (SBS ATS is their Audience Technical Support).

The SBS has recently started sending program country of origin and consumer advice information in the short description field in their broadcast EPG, and the program synopsis in the extended description. An example of the short description information is:

From Poland. Consumer Advice: D, V, S, L.

I believe that using the text fields in this way is contrary to the intent of the FreeTV Operational Practice OP-44 Implementation Guide for DVB EIT Present/FollowingInformation (EITp/f) and OP-58 Implementation Guide for DVB EITSchedule Information(EITscheduleactual).

In OP-44, the intended use of the text_char part of the short_event_descriptor is:

Broadcasters shall provide either the “episode” name (as the title of the scheduled episode), or other brief information further describing the program, in the text_char field ...

and the intended use of the extended_event_descriptor is:

The purpose of the extended_event_descriptor is to provide a longer text description or synopsis of an event, which may be used either in addition, or complimentary [sic] to, the short_event_descriptor.

I don't consider that the country of origin and consumer advice information fit the intention of the short_event_descriptor. They appear to more fit the complementary information purpose of the extended_event_descriptor.

Regards,
etc
mobile no

Suggestions welcome. Copying and modifying for your own email also welcome

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I think the OWIF EPG (grid and event popup) doesn't show the short destription field if it matches the event name, thus your new option will now show that text and we'll see a "repeat" of it. Just an observation.

You're right (I was originally going to do it another way where this was taken into account, but that didn't work out, so ended up doing it in Deswapper, where I promptly forgot about it). Updated the plugin, again: if the appending option is enabled and the name matches the short, the short will become the extended.

Hmm, are you sure you've got it right, or did I misunderstand? Short desc is shown when it matches the title.
OWIF grid:
19:00
60 Minutes
60 Minutes - Sick of cold-call scammers? Liam Bartlett tracks down the crooks trying to steal your money; plus, an epic

OWIF extract -

Code: Select all

{
 "events": [
  {
   "begin": "19:00", 
   "sname": "9HD Perth", 
   "end": "20:03", 
   "title": "60 Minutes", 
   "now_timestamp": null, 
   "shortdesc": "60 Minutes", 
   "sref": "1:0:19:462:460:1012:EEEE0000:0:0:0:", 
   "begin_timestamp": 1575802800, 
   "duration": 63, 
   "duration_sec": 3837, 
   "picon": "/picon/1_0_19_462_460_1012_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png", 
   "longdesc": "Sick of cold-call scammers? Liam Bartlett tracks down the crooks trying to steal your money; plus, an epic adventure to the most dangerous place on earth - the legendary Snake Island; & two very funny amigos, Steve Martin and Martin Short", 
   "date": "Sun 08.12.2019", 
   "genreid": 128, 
   "genre": "Social/Political/Economics: social/political issues/economics (general)", 
   "id": 7725
  }, 

[adoxa]

Hmm, are you sure you've got it right, or did I misunderstand? Short desc is shown when it matches the title.

I wasn't paying attention again (looking at Name when it's Title), now it should work.

[raymondjpg]

You're right (I was originally going to do it another way where this was taken into account, but that didn't work out, so ended up doing it in Deswapper, where I promptly forgot about it). Updated the plugin, again: if the appending option is enabled and the name matches the short, the short will become the extended.

I installed version 3 of the plugin in an IceTV enabled T2 and it has certainly done what I hoped for, displaying combined short and long descriptions in the OWIF EPG. As I suspected, it might benefit modifying the .desc style, to show four rather than three lines. I'll have a stab at that when I have some time.

At one stage I was also hoping that scheduled timers might show this combined information in the OWIF IceTV timer list, but I understand that this would probably need some modifications beyond the remit of just OWIF display, and might be out of bounds.

I'm just happy to see some better indication of what is on in the OWIF EPG grid. Beauty!

Edit: Saw there was an update, uninstalled v3 of the plugin and installed v4. It remembered the settings I had applied in v3.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Hmm, are you sure you've got it right, or did I misunderstand? Short desc is shown when it matches the title.

I wasn't paying attention again (looking at Name when it's Title), now it should work.

Better.
19:00
60 Minutes
Sick of cold-call scammers? Liam Bartlett tracks down the crooks

Now what about these types ('- New', and '({year})'? Is it starting to get messy filtering these short descriptions too?
20:03
Boeing's Killer Plane: What Went Wrong? - New
Boeing's Killer Plane: What Went Wrong? - What inevitably doomed this Lion

21:05
Sully (2016)
Sully - The story of Chesley Sullenberger, an American pilot who became a hero

[adoxa]

Now what about these types ('- New', and '({year})'? Is it starting to get messy filtering these short descriptions too?

A little messy, but still easy enough to do. What about the repeat flag? I believe it's customisable, so I could really only test the default - trailing " [R]", right?

[prl]

What about the repeat flag? I believe it's customisable, so I could really only test the default - trailing " [R]", right?

Yes, the IceTV repeat flag is free text and defaults to "[R]". The space between the title and the repeat flag is added by IceTV.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Now what about these types ('- New', and '({year})'? Is it starting to get messy filtering these short descriptions too?

A little messy, but still easy enough to do. What about the repeat flag? I believe it's customisable, so I could really only test the default - trailing " [R]", right?

Yeah, it's completely customisable!
One of my boxes uses [Rpt] whilst another uses [R], one uses it prefixed in the title but the other uses it in the short description!
I think if you handled it, just handle the default of "[R] " prefixed at the beginning of the title.

I'm assuming you're thinking of ignoring short descriptions that match the title beginning, as that should knock it out for these title types that I currently see in the FTA EPG -
{string} - New
{string} - Encore
{string} ({year})
It should also knock it out for a "(includes sneak peek blah)" title.
Taking the IceTV default repeat into account, also ignoring '[R] ' + short description string matching the title beginning.

[raymondjpg]

Yeah, it's completely customisable!
One of my boxes uses [Rpt] whilst another uses [R], one uses it prefixed in the title but the other uses it in the short description!
I think if you handled it, just handle the default of "[R] " prefixed at the beginning of the title.

From what prl said "Yes, the IceTV repeat flag is free text and defaults to "[R]". The space between the title and the repeat flag is added by IceTV." I would interpret that as trailing the title. If it were at the beginning I would have thought it would have read "The space between the repeat flag and the title is added by IceTV."

But you could be right about the beginning being the default. It is difficult to tell, for whatever it is set to, then not saved, that option reappears next time the option box is ticked.

[prl]

I had simply forgotten that the repeat flag can be set in the IceTV settings to either precede or follow the title.

It also isn't necessarily attached to the title. It can be configured to be at the start or end of any one of the title, the sub-title or the description.

As well as that, it can be any text the user wants, and there's no obvious limitation on its length in the Web page UI.

When enabled, the default appears to be "[R]", Beginning, Title.

[peteru]

Would it make sense for the implementation to use regular expressions to perform the substitutions and for the plugin GUI to provide some common presets? Users with special needs could then edit the config to craft their own advanced regex (and share those with the community).

[prl]

IceTV is also now multi-lingual

"Hinzufügen einer Wiederholungsmarkierung zu einem anderen Feld auf meinem PVR."

The default markup text is still "[R]" there, but it could easily be "[W]" (for "Wiederholung").

[adoxa]

I had originally intended to use regex, indirectly configurable (no GUI, but read from file), but atm it's simpler to hardcode.

Here's the latest version, which will:

• replace an extended description of space-dot-space with nothing (WIN);
• remove a duplicate cast list ("(Actors) Starring: Actors" becomes "Starring: Actors"; SCA);
• remove indicators from title and short when comparing them so OWIF EPG doesn't double up (untested):
  • first word in square brackets ("[R] Title");
  • last word in square brackets ("Title [R]");
  • ending with dash word ("Title - New");
  • last word is a number in brackets ("Title (2019)").

[raymondjpg]

Here's the latest version, which will:

• replace an extended description of space-dot-space with nothing (WIN);
• remove a duplicate cast list ("(Actors) Starring: Actors" becomes "Starring: Actors"; SCA);
• remove indicators from title and short when comparing them so OWIF EPG doesn't double up (untested):
  • first word in square brackets ("[R] Title");
  • last word in square brackets ("Title [R]");
  • ending with dash word ("Title - New");
  • last word is a number in brackets ("Title (2019)").

I think the Deswapper plugin, at least v5, is in some respects incompatible with the latest v19.3 firmware.

After updating firmware on a T2 and a U4 I installed v5 the Deswapper plugin. So far so good, it appears to do what it's supposed to on the FTA SBS OWIF EPG grid program descriptions, and combined short and long descriptions in the IceTV OWIF EPG grid.

However, I was unable to display timers from either PVR in the OWIF display. Uninstalling the Deswapper plugin, I was able to display timers on both PVRs.

I don't know if it is the Deswapper plugin per se, or possibly v5 that is the problem. Rather than trying earlier versions of the plugin which were working with v17.5 firmware, I thought it best to bring it to your attention for an expert diagnosis.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

However, I was unable to display timers from either PVR in the OWIF display. Uninstalling the Deswapper plugin, I was able to display timers on both PVRs.

20191106 installed (as has been since 6-Nov).
Deswapper upgraded from 0.9.4 to 0.9.5
TIMER still shows timer list, as expected.
OWIF timer list however abends -
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/Deswapper/hook.py:24 in run
23
24
25
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/Deswapper/hook.py:110 in lookupEvent
109
110
111
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/Extensions/Deswapper/hook.py:43 in starring
42
43
44

Disable Deswapper, OWIF timer list works.

[adoxa]

Replaced 0.9.5 with 0.9.6. Weird that the EPG would work, but not the timers.

[raymondjpg]

Replaced 0.9.5 with 0.9.6. Weird that the EPG would work, but not the timers.

v0.9.6 appears to be working well again. Thank you.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

[*]ending with dash word ("Title - New");
[*]last word is a number in brackets ("Title (2019)").

*** edit - forget what I said below; the plugin was still disabled from it's prior install.

I think the computer says "no"

OWIF_EPGgrid_naughty_short.png (11.03 KiB) Viewed 5668 times

Shouldn't I have got the extended desc (up to the display limit)?

[adoxa]

Updated to swap "Audio Described".

[adoxa]

Fixed the OWIF timers again.

[Henk]

Hello Adoxa,

The latest version does not capture the Audio Described. (AD) type of entry on the ABC channels.
Can you help?

[adoxa]

Yeah, I've been meaning to do it, get there eventually.

[adoxa]

The latest version does not capture the Audio Described. (AD) type of entry on the ABC channels.

I've moved it to the extended description. There's also another OWIF fix, and it properly disables (SCA's "Starring" and WIN's " . " were still active).

[Grumpy_Geoff]

The latest version does not capture the Audio Described. (AD) type of entry on the ABC channels.

I've moved it to the extended description. There's also another OWIF fix, and it properly disables (SCA's "Starring" and WIN's " . " were still active).

Works, from OWIF -

ABC HD
HDTV / DVB-T
Sat 04.07.2020 Operation Buffalo
21:20 - 22:19 (59 min.)
When Carmen's friends, Molly, Lydia and Yvonne, are attacked by an ASIO operative, they show up at Maralinga hospital and confront Leo about the incident and question how ASIO knew where to find them.

Audio Described (AD).

Thanks.

[adoxa]

Made some improvements to SCA's "Starring".

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Adoxa, ABC have changed the annotation as per below snippets returned from an OWIF "epgsearch" API call -
"shortdesc": "(AD) Alison's search for answers sends her on a difficult journey, where she soon arrives at the door of a reluctant collaborator in her late husband's lies.",

"shortdesc": "(AD) Faced with conflicting explanations of her husband's past and a startling revelation about his work, Alison finds herself questioning everything she thought she knew. (Final)",

Can you update Deswapper accordingly please?

[adoxa]

Yeah, I've been meaning to do it, but yet to get around to it.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Yeah, I've been meaning to do it, but yet to get around to it.

No worries, thanks.

[adoxa]

This removes ABC's "(AD) " prefix, going back to an extended "Audio Described (AD). ". There's also another improvement to SCA's "Starring".

[Grumpy_Geoff]

This removes ABC's "(AD) " prefix, going back to an extended "Audio Described (AD). ".

Works fine thanks.

[adoxa]

• Fix SBS "From" and AD ("Watership Down");
• tweak "Starring" again (add colon, remove double spaces; SCA);
• replace currency symbol with "$";
• add a dot if the description ends with two dots (WIN).

[adoxa]

Updated to improve the hooking method (prevents the EPG being blocked under certain circumstances).

[adoxa]

Updated to fix a crash if there's nothing after "Starring" (Twilight Zone premiere on 10SHAKE). I've also fixed hooking again, which unfortunately means it will crash when you update.

[adoxa]

Fix SBS "From:" (test the colon) and AD (trailing space has been removed). Restart not required, but you may need to remove and reinstall (I upgraded from File Commander, which didn't pick up the new version, but removing it and reinstalling did the trick).

[raymondjpg]

(I upgraded from File Commander, which didn't pick up the new version, but removing it and reinstalling did the trick).

Grateful if you could go through the steps how to do this. My days of crawling around on hands and knees to do it by USB drive are numbered.

I've never really understood File Commander or how to use it. Call me a dinosaur.

TIA

[raymondjpg]

(I upgraded from File Commander, which didn't pick up the new version, but removing it and reinstalling did the trick).

Grateful if you could go through the steps how to do this. My days of crawling around on hands and knees to do it by USB drive are numbered.

I've never really understood File Commander or how to use it. Call me a dinosaur.

TIA

Edit: I think I did it, copying the installation file to the movie directory by ftp, then selecting in file commander and enter to execute. All done through Webif interface. Easy!

One thing, the Deswapper config dialogue is still showing version 0.9.6, despite the installation dialogue saying 1.1.3 installed correctly.

I didn't need to uninstall the plugin before updating, so if I didn't do it right I'd appreciate someone telling me!

[adoxa]

That version is too old to auto-refresh, you'll have to restart.

[raymondjpg]

That version is too old to auto-refresh, you'll have to restart.

Thanks. Restarting did the trick, now showing setup dialogue for 1.1.3.