HDMI interference and spinning star

[robbo]

I cannot get either my ChromeCast or my BeyonWiz T2 to work when they are both connected to a HDMI port on my TV. They both flicker on/off.

Background
I have aPanasonic 46 inch Plasma TV with two front and one rear HDMI inputs - it's old but still works well

I also have a BeyonWiz T2 which until recently was using the Beta version firmware but after a crash during an update a few days ago I did a USB install using beyonwiz-17.5-beyonwizt2-20180417_usb.zip which I believe is the public version.

Until several months ago I was using one of the first generation ChromeCast devices on my TV but stopped using it because it wasn't very reliable. I recently bought a new Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 so I thought I would connect it to my Chromecast to see if it was any better. The ChromeCast did a firmware update and then started oscillating on/off. I thought this must be an issue with the old unit so I bought a new Chromecast. When I configured the new Chromecast it did it's firmware update and then started oscillating on/off like the old one too.

Specifically it will display the image for a few seconds then the image goes black for a few seconds as if the Chromecast was turned off, then the image appears again. If I try to cast, the cast show similarly goes on a few seconds and off a few, so it's not as if the Chromecast is rebooting, it keeps running but there's no image on the TV.

I tried swapping power supplies, power sources and HDMI ports but the symptoms are persistent. I contacted Google who walked me through a series of steps including installing their latest Beta firmware but no solution.

At their suggestion I contacted Panasonic who likewise asked me to perform some diagnostics and they concluded that it appears to be an incompatibility somewhere.

The reason I am raising it on this forum is because the problem only occurs when the Wiz is connected to a HDMI port (regardless of whether the Wiz is turned on or off). If I connect my DVD to any HDMI port and the ChromeCast to any other port it works fine. If I connect the Wz and DVD player to any of the ports it works fine. If I connect only the ChromeCast to a HDMI port, it works fine too. But as soon as I connect the Wiz and Chromecast to any combination of ports, both the Wiz and the Chromecast will flicker on/off. The only way to watch either one is to physically disconnect the other. I thought HDMI was a standard so this behaviour surprises me.

Can anyone suggest a solution before I return my Chromecast for a refund?

I don't know if it's related to this, or a separate issue but I thought I would mention all symptoms here in case they're related.

Ever since updating firmware on my Wiz I keep getting the spinning star appearing for several seconds quite often during a viewing, interfering with normal operation of the device. I had this issue some time ago with the Beta firmware and, after raising a question on this forum, I discovered the problem could be all but overcome if I set the autotimer to require description to be unique on any service/recording but check for uniqueness only on Title and Short Description, not Title and All Descriptions. The backup I installed after updating the firmware still had the original setting so I have reset all my Autotimers to that less demanding setting but the issue persists.

[MrQuade]

This sort of thing has been seen before.

It could be a HDMI connection negotiation that is being incorrectly triggered, or possibly an electrical problem. Unfortunately there was no resolution to the issue that I linked to.

As-per suggestions in the linked thread.
Try turning off the Samsung HDMI-CEC setting and see if that helps as a start (called Anynet+).
Try powering the Chromecast differently. Can you try powering it from one of the TV's USB ports (assuming it has enough grunt). Or make sure the TV, Wiz and Chromecast are all being powered from the same powerboard (could be a dicky power point, or grounding problem).

[robbo]

Sounds like there is a compatibility issue between some old TV's interacting with Wiz and Chromecast.

<<Try turning off the Samsung HDMI-CEC setting and see if that helps as a start (called Anynet+).>>
Is this a Wiz or TV setting?

<<Try powering the Chromecast differently. Can you try powering it from one of the TV's USB ports (assuming it has enough grunt). Or make sure the TV, Wiz and Chromecast are all being powered from the same powerboard (could be a dicky power point, or grounding problem).>>

Power doesn't appear to be the problem. The TV doesn't have a USB port and I have tried various USB power supplies and various GPO's.

What about the spinning star issue? For example I just pressed the Stop button on the Wiz a few minutes ago after I finished watching a short video and the spinning star prevented the Media list from fully displaying for at least 10 seconds. This happens often

[MrQuade]

<<Try turning off the Samsung HDMI-CEC setting and see if that helps as a start (called Anynet+).>>
Is this a Wiz or TV setting?

Oh, sorry, my mistake, your TV is a Panasonic. It is a TV setting, and might be called something like "Viera Link". It is the control signalling protocol that TVs and PVRs can use to talk to eachother, and it may be confusing things in this case.

Power doesn't appear to be the problem. The TV doesn't have a USB port and I have tried various USB power supplies and various GPO's.

If you can test by having all devices powered from the same GPO, that would probably rule out the power supply problem.

Another thing to check for are any firmware updates for your TV. I know it is an older model, but there might have been an update pushed out late in its lifecycle that you can try.

What about the spinning star issue? For example I just pressed the Stop button on the Wiz a few minutes ago after I finished watching a short video and the spinning star prevented the Media list from fully displaying for at least 10 seconds. This happens often

If it happened after pressing stop, I immediately think of the resumepoint cache as being a culprit there.
When you press stop, the resumepoint cache gets updated and cleaned up, and the Wiz goes off an checks to see if all the files in the resumepoint cache are still present and available. Quite some time back, the firmware was updated and this whole resumepoint process was streamlined and fixed up so that you shouldn't normally see the spinner when stopping media playback, so I am not sure if this could be the culprit since you are running recent firmware.
However, if you have any mountpoints configured on the T2 that are pointing to network shares that are no longer available, this can delay some network operations. Do you link to a NAS or PC that might be switched off at any point?

[prl]

...
What about the spinning star issue? For example I just pressed the Stop button on the Wiz a few minutes ago after I finished watching a short video and the spinning star prevented the Media list from fully displaying for at least 10 seconds. This happens often

You've got that the wrong way around. The spinning star is an indication that the firmware operation is taking a longer time than usual to return to the main dispatch loop where remote and front panel commands are dispatched. It's not really the cause of anything.

As for the cause, I think MrQuade's probably got it.

[robbo]

I just thought that I would give an update on how I am going.

I tried turning Viera Link off but Chrome and Wiz still don't want to play together so it looks like I have to get rid of my new Chromecast. Maybe a future update will restore it to a working duo again.

As for the spinning star, it appears while I am watching TV for a few seconds a few times (up to 4) every now and then. It also appears at times when I press the Stop. I don't know how often but often enough to be annoying because it interferes with my TV watching. It is almost as bad with this firmware as it was when I raised the issue first time (fixed by changing the autotimers) but this time the autotimers are already fixed.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

...As for the spinning star, it appears while I am watching TV for a few seconds a few times (up to 4) every now and then. It also appears at times when I press the Stop. I don't know how often but often enough to be annoying because it interferes with my TV watching. It is almost as bad with this firmware as it was when I raised the issue first time (fixed by changing the autotimers) but this time the autotimers are already fixed.

See if you can time the interval between these spinner episodes. Do they regularly occur every 30 mins (or whatever interval you may have changed the AutoTimer polling to)?
Do you have a lot of recordings? I suspect the value of "Any service/recording" for setting 'Require description to be unique' will be the culprit.

However, if you have any mountpoints configured on the T2 that are pointing to network shares that are no longer available, this can delay some network operations. Do you link to a NAS or PC that might be switched off at any point?

I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing you answer the above question from MrQuade.
Have you created symbolic links in your recordings directory to network shares? If so, and the target share(s) are unavailable, then this would definitely delay the production of the file listing.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Another check to see if the AutoTimer plugin is causing the spinners, do a test -
enable the AutoTimer setting 'Only poll while in standby' and use the 'Wiz for more than 30 mins and see if the spinner appears. The AutoTimer plugin won't automatically poll the EPG until you put the 'Wiz to standby.
Once you've finished that part of the testing, force an AutoTimer poll by bringing up the AutoTimer definitions list and then press GREEN/Save to parse the definitions - wait patiently whilst this happens. Time how long this takes. Do you see the spinner? Is the behaviour similar to what you've been observing?

[robbo]

Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't spent a lot of contiguous time watching TV so I can't answer all questions accurately yet but will work on it and respond as soon as I can but to start with.
1. I have connected my Wiz up to my home networks but only so I can download from Windows PC's and save them to the WIZ. I've never actually checked if that means the WIZ can do the reverse or if that forces it to want to check the directory structure of other PC's on the network every time I press the stop button. Certainly I have never tried saving from the Wiz to anywhere other than its own HDD. Inside the Wiz I do have probably about a dozen folders and subfolders.
2. Every time I have spotted the spinning star so far has been either:
When I've tried to use the remote control to do something like skip forward or select a menu
At around 13 minutes or 43 minutes past the hour so it seems that it likely is the 30 minute autotimer check that's part of the problem
When I press Stop after the recorded program I have been watching has finished.
A few random instances
3. Most times the spinning star goes for about the duration of an ad (it always seems long when you're waiting but may only be 15 seconds), then a pause where it responds then another ad break. Usually only twice but I have seen it go 4 times

I will try the tests you've suggested as soon as I can to give you a more accurate update.

Thanks again for your patience and support

[prl]

1. I have connected my Wiz up to my home networks but only so I can download from Windows PC's and save them to the WIZ. I've never actually checked if that means the WIZ can do the reverse or if that forces it to want to check the directory structure of other PC's on the network every time I press the stop button. Certainly I have never tried saving from the Wiz to anywhere other than its own HDD. Inside the Wiz I do have probably about a dozen folders and subfolders.

You can do what you describe in both ways that Windows sharing works between Beyonwiz and WIndows PCs. You can either make shares available from the Beyonwiz and connect to them on the PC, or make shares available from the PC and connect to/mount them on the Beyonwiz. It sounds like you're doing the former, but the copying you describe can be done either way.

UI hangs in the media selection screen (with the accompanying spinner) caused by slow or disconnected Windows shares most often happen when you make shares available from the PC and connect to/mount them on the Beyonwiz and the media selection screen needs to update. They can also happen while playing if there are networking problems (especially if you use wireless networking to/from either the Beyonwiz or the PC).

They shouldn't happen when you're playing media or timeshifting using the builtin HDD (or a USB attached to the Beyonwiz) unless something else (like an AutoTimer run) is holding up the UI dispatch loop..

[Scobie]

Thought I'd jump in here as I get this issue as well.

Running a T4 with latest FW, and the Spinning Star (nice to have a name for this since I yell at it a fair bit) will appear quite often during playback, but mostly when attempting a forward or rev skip, or bringing up one of the menus. It rarely just pops up on its own, normally I'm attempting some process.

Most of the time it only spins for 10-15 seconds or so, but a few times lately has caused the BW to become completely unresponsive and the only way to bring it back is via the rear panel switch.

I wasn't aware of the various cache / EPG settings highlighted in this thread but will check the settings and let you know.

There are quite a few recordings on the Wiz, and it also has the UPnP folder displayed from my NAS, although I never watch media via that.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I've no idea if this will make a difference, but try disabling the miniDLNA server on the Wiz if you don't have any clients needing DLNA access to the Wiz.
I've it disabled on all of mine (it's one of the first things I do after a USB f/w flash).
SETUP>>Network>>DLNA server. Use the GREEN and YELLOW buttons to stop it and disable its auto-start.

[Scobie]

Thanks Geoff will give that a crack as well and see if it makes a difference.

I was worried that this behaviour may have been a symptom of a dying HDD, but sounds like that is probably not the case?

[prl]

the Spinning Star (nice to have a name for this since I yell at it a fair bit)

It's usually just called the "spinner". It wasn't always a star, and if you use OverlayHD, you can choose among several different representations. The setting name in OverlayHD is "Spinner style"

One way to get information about what might be causing the hang that makes the spinner display is to enable debug logging, and then look at the part of the log leading up to the most recent (last in file) instance of the string "display spinner".

[prl]

I was worried that this behaviour may have been a symptom of a dying HDD, but sounds like that is probably not the case?

I'm not sure that HDD problems have been eliminated as a cause. You'd need to look in /var/log/messages to see whether any HDD errors had been logged.

[Scobie]

Still early days but indications so far is that disabling the UPnP has helped resolve this issue.

It is the only change I have made and the T4 has been behaving itself.

Scobie.

[MrQuade]

Still early days but indications so far is that disabling the UPnP has helped resolve this issue.

Good stuff! Yes, if the Wiz's UPnP server has visibility of a LOT of media files, then it will have a noticeable impact on the Wiz.
If you had a *lot* of recordings for example, or if you had any symlinks from your Movies directory pointing at network locations that hold a lot of media files.

It has been proposed that the UPnP server be disabled by default, but it was decided that it should be left enabled by default so that novice users would not need to know to turn it on manually. Its enabled/disabled status is not saved as part of your setting backup either, so if you ever re-load firmware from USB, the UPnP server will automatically be re-enabled.

[prl]

I'm glad to see that it's sorted.

I question whether having the DLNA server follow symbolic links, especially symbolic links to another device (often to a NAS that has a DLNA server itself), is a good idea.

[Scobie]

I agree I'm not sure it's a great design to have if the renderer is pulling form the file source rather than having data pushed to it from a media server.

UPnP can work really well, I have a nice DLNA network at home and play hi res audio and video problem free most of the time, but the protocol can be a bit flaky. If the default install of the BW is problematic under certain - and fairly common it has to be said given the prevalence of NAS devices - conditions then I don't think that's a good idea.

Initially I didn't even know UPnP was enabled! Having a play around I found I could pull files from my NAS, but thought why would I when i can go straight to my receiver or Blu Ray from my media server?

I think it would be preferable to have the BW as a true renderer and push to it from a Media Server if necessary.

[MrQuade]

I think it would be preferable to have the BW as a true renderer and push to it from a Media Server if necessary.

The Wiz is both a UPnP server and renderer. Disabling the UPnP server should have no effect on its ability to act as a self-contained renderer/control point. There is no way to "cast" to the renderer from an external device as far as I know.

[Scobie]

That was more my point I guess. You are right of course it is a renderer but not being able to push to it limits its usefulness.

Not having this functionality forces the BW to maintain visibility / linkage to the media server which as it turns out - and has been pointed out - is not great.

[MrQuade]

Not having this functionality forces the BW to maintain visibility / linkage to the media server which as it turns out - and has been pointed out - is not great.

The Wiz can still have visibility to the NAS media source via the links that are automatically created in the /media/* path. You just access them using the "Locations" button from the Media Player (YELLOW by default).

The problem comes about if you manually create a symbolic link in /media/hdd/movie/ that points to a large media library stored somewhere on your network. The built-in UPnP server just traverses the symbolic links as if they contained locally stored media. I have never been a fan of creating symlinks from the Movie folder, though I know there are plenty of users who do like to use them. I just personally find that they may be convenient once set up, but they are just one more point of configuration to worry about should any link paths change, and they have been known to cause these sorts of edge-case issues (such as when sending media to trash).

[Scobie]

Ok I didn't realise that.

Having said that though I never actually created any links. On 2 or 3 occasions did I try and play a video via the UPnP link where i was able to traverse the file structure on my NAS using my associated DLNA server. While this worked, I found the response to be quite slow so I never really used it.

Pushing to a renderer from the server seems to work much better.

[prl]

The problem comes about if you manually create a symbolic link in /media/hdd/movie/ that points to a large media library stored somewhere on your network. The built-in UPnP server just traverses the symbolic links as if they contained locally stored media.

That's the problem that I was alluding to. Especially when the links are to an NAS that is also itself a DLNA server.

I have never been a fan of creating symlinks from the Movie folder, though I know there are plenty of users who do like to use them.

+1

I just personally find that they may be convenient once set up, but they are just one more point of configuration to worry about should any link paths change, and they have been known to cause these sorts of edge-case issues (such as when sending media to trash).

Here's another edge case where soft links probably don't work the way people think they might: If you create a soft link to a directory, and then delete the soft link in FileCommander (MENU>Sources / FIles), the directory that the soft link points to is deleted (permanently, not just moved to Trash), but the soft link isn't (this is the exact opposite to what happens if you delete a soft link from the Unix commandline interface).

This is probably more of a FileCommander bug than a real soft link issue, but still, as far as soft links and the Beyonwiz firmware goes, Hic sunt dracones.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

...Here's another edge case where soft links probably don't work the way people think they might: If you create a soft link to a directory, and then delete the soft link in FileCommander (MENU>Sources / FIles), the directory that the soft link points to is deleted (permanently, not just moved to Trash), but the soft link isn't (this is the exact opposite to what happens if you delete a soft link from the Unix commandline interface).

This is probably more of a FileCommander bug than a real soft link issue, but still, as far as soft links and the Beyonwiz firmware goes, Hic sunt dracones.

Perhaps the behaviour you report has changed with more recent firmware, or perhaps I have misunderstood, because that doesn't match the testing I just conducted.
I created a symbolic link in /media/hdd/movie to a writable folder on a network share. I ensured the target folder was writable from the Wiz by using File Commander to copy a recording to it.
I then opened the symlink folder in the media list and played a file to be sure it was accessible that way.
I then used File Commander and deleted the symlink from /media/hdd/movie. I then opened the network share in File Commander and the 'target' folder is still present.

Here's the command executed by File Commander to create the link -

Code: Select all

{754}< 33037.599> [Console] executing in run 0  the command: ('ln', '-s', '/media/autofs/Public/Test_Wiz_share/', '/media/hdd/movie/')

... and the deletion -

Code: Select all

{754}< 33182.533> [Console] executing in run 0  the command: ('rm', '-rf', '/media/hdd/movie/Test_Wiz_share/')
[code]

[prl]

Yes, sorry. Wrong culprit. It happens in the media selection screen if you disable "Use trash in movie list". If you say "yes" to the deletion popup, it deletes the directory linked to, not the link. The link becomes invisible in the media selection screen because it no longer points anywhere. It can still be seen in FileCommander and the commandline interface, and it can be cleaned up in either.

If the link and the target directory are in the same containing directory and you delete the link, the list media selection screen shows the link has been deleted and the directory is still there, but if you exit the screen and re-enter it (or otherwise refresh the list display), neither is shown, though as above, the now orphaned link is actually still there.

The only positive is that when you delete the link in the media selection screen the popup does correctly warn you about how many subdirectories and files you're deleting.

The problem is that in these circumstances, before calling shutil.rmtree(path) to delete the directory, it essentially does path = os.path.realpath(path), which points path at the directory rather than the link.

[prl]

Bug #668: Link deletion deletes target, not link in MovieSelection