When will firmware 17.5 become official?

[Mantorok]

Any idea when we can expect firmware 17.5 to become official via a post from Wiz HQ?

It’s been about a year since 16.1 become official.

[Star6key]

Have you been living under a rock?
I take it you have not read the many threads of failed timers, missing video, missing audio, lock ups, many hdmi recording issues, etc.
I lasted a day before I went back to 16.1.

[Mantorok]

Really?

I was reading the thread viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12323 and MrQuade indicated that the 17.5 firmware was ‘beta’ in name only. I interpreted that to mean it was going to be official very soon. My bad I guess!!

[Star6key]

No, at that time, I guess things were stable. Everything went to shite in the last week or so.

[exitguy]

Have you been living under a rock?
I take it you have not read the many threads of failed timers, missing video, missing audio, lock ups, many hdmi recording issues, etc.
I lasted a day before I went back to 16.1.

I think you are over reacting , the developers on here seem to pretty much get on top of issues and release update / upgrades as quickly as possible to get them resolved. Try and get these responses from developers etc. on other equipment and you will be hard pressed to find issues resolved in the timely that they are with the Beyonwiz crew

You also need to be aware that some of these issues / problems are not across the board, but specific to a particular model (s) - I have a T2 setup to use the Beta and have update / upgraded numerous times since Dec without any problems.

[Paul_oz53]

I live at the cutting edge and, if I have a talent, it is breaking the latest firmware through my relatively poor understanding of the code and propensity to experiment.

The bugs which crop up in the beta firmware are rapidly investigated and resolved. I am happy with 17.5 and regard the beta bug fix experience as educational. 16.1 was ok but it is insecure and a lot of "under the hood" enhancements have been made to 17.5 which improve the overall user experience.

The latest issue turns out to be that the T4 HDMI-IN hardware couldn't do 1080 reliably. Fixed within hours. Yes, there's also an issue with T4 recordings, which seems to be a recurrence of an old issue. That's being investigated and will, hopefully, soon be resolved.

The tighter security in 17.5 has coincided with changes to Windows security settings. That's caused some networking problems for some but setup correctly, 17.5 works fine.

The truth is that setting up from scratch is required for 17.5 and that is a pain for novice users. But, when the next official firmware is released, all upgraders will have to confront that task.

If you find the latest beta doesn't do as you expect, I think the better option is to go to the penultimate version of 17.5 firmware, since 17.5 was very stable up to then.

Paul

[MrQuade]

Yes, there's also an issue with T4 recordings, which seems to be a recurrence of an old issue. That's being investigated and will, hopefully, soon be resolved.

A different to the old issue, but since Warkus was able to generate a list of stepos to replicate, PeterU has managed to find the problem and will hopefully have it fixed by the evening.


Yes, it was a bit unfortunate that a few risky updates were recently introduced into the 17.5 series, including the audio mutli-channel updates, the perl/GetWizPnP(preparation anyway) inclusions, and the HDMI-IN/OUT updates. Actually, the audio update was the result of a bit of an accident, as the new driver wasn't quite ready for prime time, but had found its way into the online updates anyway. The best way to tackle that was to accept the error and forge on and get it fixed though (which it seems to have done).

Ideally, those sorts of changes could have been tackled in a 18.2 series, but seeing as 17.5 hasn't officially been released, it makes it a bit hard to move on.

[Paul_oz53]

It appeared to me that the issue might be the number of concurrent recordings. Hats off to Warkus for proving it.

If the sound drivers are stealing too much memory then I would sacrifice them on the T4. I occasionally record seven programs in an evening. The number of concurrent recordings matters to us.

Just curious as ever, is perl included in the current USB update?

Paul

[MrQuade]

Just curious as ever, is perl included in the current USB update?

The ability to install perl was added. The was a bug in the excusing package manager that meant that when PeterU added perl to the feed, then it automatically downloaded and installed on everyone's T4. That was the reason that we had to do a USB update instead of just a regular online update just recently. The USB had no perl in it but perl was still in the update feed. At least that's how I understood the problem anyway.

[prl]

Just curious as ever, is perl included in the current USB update?

The ability to install perl was added. ...

The perl executable (/usr/bin/perl, a symbolic link to /usr/bin/perl5.24.1) is definitely part of the 20180309 USB. However, almost none of its libraries, even pretty basic ones like Errno and POSIX are installed by default, even after enabling beta updates and updating online to 20180310.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Just curious as ever, is perl included in the current USB update?

The ability to install perl was added. ...

I believe /usr/bin/perl on the T-series has been around since Adam was a boy, but I gather from prl's post that it may be a minimal install.

[raymondjpg]

The truth is that setting up from scratch is required for 17.5 and that is a pain for novice users

I'd say more of a pain for everyone. But them's the breaks, if you want the new firmware. If I recall correctly the current public release firmware 16.1 also had the limitation that you could not restore settings from an installation with earlier firmware.

16.1 was ok but it is insecure and a lot of "under the hood" enhancements have been made to 17.5 which improve the overall user experience.

More than OK. I have been using it in a T2 for as long as it has been public without any issues, and won't be rushing to install 17.5 unless I see a more substantial offering than an an "improved overall user experience". That sounds like some of the emails I get about the Windows 10 Insider program!

[prl]

...
More than OK. I have been using it in a T2 for as long as it has been public without any issues, and won't be rushing to install 17.5 unless I see a more substantial offering than an an "improved overall user experience". That sounds like some of the emails I get about the Windows 10 Insider program!

Does "loads of bug fixes and improvements" sound more attractive?

Both MrQuade and I have made attempts to bring together lists of improvements in the firmware from the last public release (16.1-20170310) to the then-current release. The lists are tedious and difficult to compile, longish, and probably miss quite a lot of things.

The last attempt to do this that I can find was an update by MrQuade of (I think) one of my earlier lists in July 2017. There's been a fair bit of water under the bridge since then, including the pre-release testing and release of the U4.

Perhaps it's time to do another one, but it's not a task I approach with much enthusiasm.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

...The last attempt to do this that I can find was an update by MrQuade of (I think) one of my earlier lists in July 2017. There's been a fair bit of water under the bridge since then, including the pre-release testing and release of the U4.

I think it was last updated in the 20171204 topic

[prl]

Thanks, Geoff. That's not nearly as old as feared it would be

And thanks to MrQuade for the updates!

[raymondjpg]

Does "loads of bug fixes and improvements" sound more attractive?

Not really. I don't think I'm being picky as to all intents and purposes my T2 with 16.1 aint broke (yet).

Both MrQuade and I have made attempts to bring together lists of improvements in the firmware from the last public release (16.1-20170310) to the then-current release. The lists are tedious and difficult to compile, longish, and probably miss quite a lot of things.

And I would think will remain tedious and difficult to compile until the firmware is finalised. Then users should see a final changelog and can decide whether or not to install the firmware or leave it to the more intrepid among us to try out first. I've seen more than enough stuff-ups lately with firmware and bios updates to sit squarely in the latter camp.

The last attempt to do this that I can find was an update by MrQuade of (I think) one of my earlier lists in July 2017. There's been a fair bit of water under the bridge since then, including the pre-release testing and release of the U4.

I looked at the most recent list, and reiterate that the bug fixes would not in themselves propel me to install the new firmware, neither the New Features/Enhancements (as at the time of listing). Again not being picky, just conservative. I would have to look more closely at the security enhancements but at first blush they would appear to be more suited to those who think there are dark forces bent on hacking their way into our networks via Beyonwiz PVRs. I can recall recoiling from the overblown security in Windows 7 after XP, but I suppose over time we have to come to terms with it.

Perhaps it's time to do another one, but it's not a task I approach with much enthusiasm.

Can't say as I blame you.

[prl]

... I would have to look more closely at the security enhancements but at first blush they would appear to be more suited to those who think there are dark forces bent on hacking their way into our networks via Beyonwiz PVRs. ...

It's a computer running a pretty vanilla flavour of Linux with (in 16.1 and earlier releases) no password on root or on a share of the root filesystem. If that doesn't shout "hack me now", I don't think anything does.

What makes it slightly less attractive to hackers is that x86 binaries won't run on it, and it doesn't have any development utilities, like compilers, on it.

[MrQuade]

If you want an analogy, then it is equivalent to having an unlocked gun cabinet inside your house containing a loaded rifle.

[dRdoS7]

Hi,

If you want an analogy, then it is equivalent to having an unlocked gun cabinet inside your house containing a loaded rifle.

Slightly OTT!

A PVR never killed anybody, unless it dropped on their head.

I'm not a big fan of the extra security, but I must say that once setup,17.5 was/is an improvement over 16.1. I'm running 20180216.

dRdoS7

[MrQuade]

Slightly OTT!

A PVR never killed anybody, unless it dropped on their head.

That's the thing about metaphors. The "loaded gun" in this instance is just a tool for an intruder to wreak havoc on the other parts of the inside of the house.

In this instance, the "gun"/PVR is pointed squarely at your networked equipment, which often has little or no protection against a direct attack. Having your banking information stolen, or even just losing your treasured photo collection wiped out can be a considerable loss.

[raymondjpg]

In this instance, the "gun"/PVR is pointed squarely at your networked equipment, which often has little or no protection against a direct attack. Having your banking information stolen, or even just losing your treasured photo collection wiped out can be a considerable loss.

Sounds like the kind of paranoia that keeps the NRA in business. I have nothing against security per se, but there is already so much of it that piling another layer on in many instances is just making life more difficult than it already is. If there is a move among the community that is at the core of developing the firmware for the T series to tighten up security then so be it. Just don't peddle it as an enhancement; more of a necessary evil.

[dRdoS7]

Hi,

Slightly OTT!

A PVR never killed anybody, unless it dropped on their head.

That's the thing about metaphors. The "loaded gun" in this instance is just a tool for an intruder to wreak havoc on the other parts of the inside of the house.

In this instance, the "gun"/PVR is pointed squarely at your networked equipment, which often has little or no protection against a direct attack. Having your banking information stolen, or even just losing your treasured photo collection wiped out can be a considerable loss.

Next, you'll be telling me it's a simile. More like hyperbole.

dRdoS7

[Star6key]

... Just don't peddle it as an enhancement; more of a necessary evil.

Agreed.

The BW's have such a small user ownership (relatively), who would bother trying to hack them.

[Paul_oz53]

If we look past the enhanced security, as of 20180313, ver 17.5 now has enhanced audio drivers, HDMI IN recording options and a host of other enhancements and bug fixes. I'm a heavy duty user of the T4 and wouldn't recommend a dud.

If these improvements don't matter to you then don't upgrade. But, except for a glitch which has taken barely a week to resolve, 17.5 has been very stable and is a worthy release candidate.

IMO, suggestions to the contrary are not well founded.

Edit: I forgot to mention the addition of E-AC3 support. Very good for playback of downloaded MKVs.

[prl]

...
The BW's have such a small user ownership (relatively), who would bother trying to hack them.

There are a number of other PVRs that also run the enigma2 firmware. They share the same sorts of vulnerabilities, and have a larger market than just Australia.

Also, because they're a Linux system, they share that user base to some extent.

[MrQuade]

Also, because they're a Linux system, they share that user base to some extent.

Especially as the Linux system is based on Busybox, which is the basis for dozens of different brands of router. It is an EXTREMELY widespread platform that gets targeted by hackers.

[raymondjpg]

If we look past the enhanced security, as of 20180313, ver 17.5 now has enhanced audio drivers, HDMI IN recording options and a host of other enhancements and bug fixes. I'm a heavy duty user of the T4 and wouldn't recommend a dud.

If these improvements don't matter to you then don't upgrade. But, except for a glitch which has taken barely a week to resolve, 17.5 has been very stable and is a worthy release candidate.

IMO, suggestions to the contrary are not well founded.

I wouldn't want anyone to think that I have suggested that 17.5 is not a worthy release candidate, or some kind of dud. On the contrary, I have more been more at pains to suggest that 16.1 is *not* a dud, notwithstanding the fact that it has been shouting "hack me" for a year or more in vain.

If you value the various "other enhancements and bug fixes" then 17.5 is for you, along with acceptance of the greater level of security. If you don't then IMO 16.1 should continue to provide you with good service.

[peteru]

So what you are effectively advocating is to stay with the equivalent of WinXP because it works for you. Never mind about the well known risks, you resist change.

As long as you have really understood the risks and benefits, that is fine. It's your choice at the end of the day. Of course, if or when things go pear shaped you won't be expecting any sympathy. After all, you have done your own risk analysis and determined the appropriate course of action for your equipment.

Nothing wrong with that as long as you are confident that you have the full picture and can appropriately identify and manage all the risks. For everyone else there are recommendations and best practices to follow, such that they do not have to be engaged in the complex tasks of threat analysis and mitigation. All they have to do is keep their firmware up to date.

[vader1111]

So, getting back to the question in the OP...

Any idea when 17.5 will become an official release, with the usual publicity from Wiz HQ and availability from the production stream?

[raymondjpg]

So what you are effectively advocating is to stay with the equivalent of WinXP because it works for you. Never mind about the well known risks, you resist change.

No. I am advocating caution against running headlong into change. I have said and I quote "...users...can decide whether or not to install the firmware or leave it to the more intrepid among us to try out first." So my stay with the equivalent of XP would last as long as I am still to be persuaded that the new version is better than the old one. That happened with Windows 7. I am yet to be persuaded that Windows 10 is better than Windows 7.

[muzza]

So, getting back to the question in the OP...

Any idea when 17.5 will become an official release, with the usual publicity from Wiz HQ and availability from the production stream?

I'd like to know this too. Not keen on attempting the procedure to get the Beta version. And my T4 isn't networked.

[prl]

...
I'd like to know this too. Not keen on attempting the procedure to get the Beta version. And my T4 isn't networked.

Unless you want to be on the beta update stream, updating to the 17.5 versions is no different from any other updates, apart from the fact that you'll need to re-do your setup manually the first time you install firmware from the 17.5 series. And you'll need to do that sometime, anyway, whether the 17.5 is beta or official.

[muzza]

Unless you want to be on the beta update stream....

That's what I meant by "attempting the procedure". Is it possible to download one of the 17.5 versions without being on the beta update stream?

[prl]

You don't need to be on the beta stream to download any USB update.

Going on the beta stream will get you more frequent updates. Mostly that is good, occasionally, less so.

[Star6key]

...
You don't need to be on the beta stream to download any USB update.
...

I think you and muzza are going around in circles. He said 'Not keen on attempting the procedure to get the Beta version.'
I believe what he meant to say was 'Not keen on attempting the procedure only to find out it's the Beta version.'

[Paul_oz53]

...
You don't need to be on the beta stream to download any USB update.
...

I think you and muzza are going around in circles. He said 'Not keen on attempting the procedure to get the Beta version.'
I believe what he meant to say was 'Not keen on attempting the procedure only to find out it's the Beta version.'

We should ask muzza of course, but I think he's saying that the procedure to download an online update is too difficult when it's not networked. USB updates are his only option.

Speaking for myself, I am quite happy with 17.5 and strongly recommend it. But the best version is the current iteration and that requires the online update. I did have some issues with an earlier iteration but these have since disappeared.

Something has changed in the last few days to break YouTube TV but I use the YouTube plugin anyway. His T4 isn't networked so it won't be missed.

[prl]

He asked:

... Is it possible to download one of the 17.5 versions without being on the beta update stream?

I assumed that he meant whether you needed to do the procedure Switching your software feed to a live beta to use 17.5 betas. You don't, and you don't need to do it to receive (some) online updates to 17.5 firmware versions.

But perhaps that wasn't the question I thought it was.

[peteru]

I'm declaring 17.5 20180417 release as the new production release for U4 and all Beyonwiz T-series. It's better than any other release before it.

It's now up to Beyonwiz to communicate this to the users.

I don't know if that makes it "official", but there you go.

[prl]

I don't know if that makes it "official", but there you go.

It looks like that's happening, but not without some small misunderstandings, or at least over-simplifications:

as it is a fairly large update we recommend a USB upgrade

- not yet in either the forum Official Firmware Images section or on the Beyonwiz Downloads page.

Before you get started the first thing that you should do is backup your settings on the U4, this will ensure that all menu, network and timers settings will be fully restored once you have finished the upgrade

- no it won't, at least not if you're upgrading from 16.1 a firmware version or earlier. For example, from the last official release.

[Wiz HQ]

- no it won't, at least not if you're upgrading from 16.1 a firmware version or earlier. For example, from the last official release.

That extract was from an email sent out to U4 customers only and as you know the U4 has always been v17.5. We will be emailing out the info on other versions tomorrow and it will include the warnings about restoring from back up.

[peteru]

Before you get started the first thing that you should do is backup your settings on the U4, this will ensure that all menu, network and timers settings will be fully restored once you have finished the upgrade

- no it won't, at least not if you're upgrading from 16.1 a firmware version or earlier. For example, from the last official release.

U4 has always been 17.5, so you are not going to be coming from 16.1 or earlier.

However, the factory default config on the original U4 firmware was bad, so not restoring settings is probably the better course of action anyway.

[catalyst]

- no it won't, at least not if you're upgrading from 16.1 a firmware version or earlier. For example, from the last official release.

That extract was from an email sent out to U4 customers only and as you know the U4 has always been v17.5. We will be emailing out the info on other versions tomorrow and it will include the warnings about restoring from back up.

Probably should include this warning also:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=12441&p=166087#p166090
Would also have been useful prior to online update appearing

[prl]

- no it won't, at least not if you're upgrading from 16.1 a firmware version or earlier. For example, from the last official release.

That extract was from an email sent out to U4 customers only and as you know the U4 has always been v17.5. We will be emailing out the info on other versions tomorrow and it will include the warnings about restoring from back up.

Probably should include this warning also:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=12441&p=166087#p166090
Would also have been useful prior to online update appearing

To be fair, since Feb 2017 (i.e. before the last official release), the "Do you want to update your Beyonwiz XX?" popup has the warning "This is a large update. Consider a full USB update instead." if there are more than 100 packages in the upgrade,

[maverick#1]

Before you get started the first thing that you should do is backup your settings on the U4, this will ensure that all menu, network and timers settings will be fully restored once you have finished the upgrade

- no it won't, at least not if you're upgrading from 16.1 a firmware version or earlier. For example, from the last official release.

That extract was from an email sent out to U4 customers only and as you know the U4 has always been v17.5. We will be emailing out the info on other versions tomorrow and it will include the warnings about restoring from back up.

I'm sure that my U4 didn't have v17.5 when I first got it I can't remember what version was on it then (maybe 16.1?), but I got one of the first batch into Australia (it wasn't a pre-release beta test machine) and I had to upgrade to v17.5 because my U4 wouldn't wake from shutdown to start timers and also had out-of-sync subtitles. v17.5 (20180216) fixed both of these problems for me. So it would be worthwhile letting U4 owners know that they won't be able to restore sertings from a backup if their current firmware isn't v17.5.

[maverick#1]

Also, is there a problem with the website at the moment? I tried going to beyonwiz.com.au on my phone to check if the latest firmware was more recent than the one I have installed but I got a message saying "This web page has a redirect loop" on the default Chromium browser and a message saying "The page isn’t redirecting properly" on Firefox v59.

[muzza]

...
You don't need to be on the beta stream to download any USB update.
...
We should ask muzza of course, but I think he's saying that the procedure to download an online update is too difficult when it's not networked. USB updates are his only option.

Exactly. Thanks

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I'm sure that my U4 didn't have v17.5 when I first got it I can't remember what version was on it then (maybe 16.1?), but I got one of the first batch into Australia (it wasn't a pre-release beta test machine) and I had to upgrade to v17.5 because my U4 wouldn't wake from shutdown to start timers and also had out-of-sync subtitles. v17.5 (20180216) fixed both of these problems for me. So it would be worthwhile letting U4 owners know that they won't be able to restore sertings from a backup if their current firmware isn't v17.5.

Your U4 did have a 17.5-series firmware version on it when you received it in January; as it had build 20171130 when shipped from the factory.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Also, is there a problem with the website at the moment? I tried going to beyonwiz.com.au on my phone to check if the latest firmware was more recent than the one I have installed but I got a message saying "This web page has a redirect loop" on the default Chromium browser and a message saying "The page isn’t redirecting properly" on Firefox v59.

You were still able to go direct to the downloads section - https://beyonwiz.com.au/downloads/ (but the website is working now anyway).
The latest firmware for the U4 is available from the downloads section:
"Firmware
17.5-beyonwizu4-20180417"

The "Click Here to Download Firmware" link in the email also would have enabled you to download the linked file "beyonwiz-17.5-beyonwizu4-20180417_usb.zip" (or at least let you see that it was 20180417).

[prl]

I'm sure that my U4 didn't have v17.5 when I first got it I can't remember what version was on it then (maybe 16.1?), but I got one of the first batch into Australia (it wasn't a pre-release beta test machine) and I had to upgrade to v17.5 because my U4 wouldn't wake from shutdown to start timers and also had out-of-sync subtitles. v17.5 (20180216) fixed both of these problems for me. So it would be worthwhile letting U4 owners know that they won't be able to restore sertings from a backup if their current firmware isn't v17.5.

Your U4 did have a 17.5-series firmware version on it when you received it in January; as it had build 20171130 when shipped from the factory.

All my saved U4 USB updates are from firmware series 17.5, including all my saved pre-release USB updates.