Editing Recordings

jonpanoff · Post by **jonpanoff** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 02:10

Hi all,
First night with the T3 and for the life of me I can't cut ads out of a program I recorded. With the DP series it was so intuitive. How do you do it on a T3?

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 05:23

You can use the cut list editor by pressing menu from the media player

This allows you to put marks either side of the ads. The t3 will skip these during playback. But it does not actually edit the file.

jonpanoff · Post by **jonpanoff** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 05:48

That sucks Simon. If I knew that I wouldn't have bought it. I now either have to transfer recordings to the DP series and edit or edit on the PC somehow. And the hard drive is going to fill up fast as I looked to pre and post pad. Surely they can make it edit like a DP series one..

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 06:00

The T3 and DP are completely different file formats. The DP made its recordings as lots of little files so when editing it just deleted the unused files. The T3 saves as a single file so it would need to edit the file itself. It doesn't have the power to do that and be a pvr at the same time.

But if your main concern is file size, it's much easier to copy t3 files off to a network or external drive than it was for the DPs.

jonpanoff · Post by **jonpanoff** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 07:29

You seem to know a fair bit about the T3 Simon so some more questions .
What file format is the T3? Is it a transport stream?
Can the DP series play T3 files?
What format do you use for external hard drives? FAT32?
How fast is it to transfer files over the network compared to the DP series and is it faster to plug in an external hard drive and get the files off that way? If I remember rightly wizfx was actually quicker than direct to hard drive with the DP series.
What is the best software to quickly edit the T3 files on either mac or PC? (I have a mac but have parallels running windows 7 on it too). Just top and tail and removing ads.
Thanks for your help Simon. Another learning curve with the T3 it seems...

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 07:48

T3 records ts files. But you will notice that there are a number of smaller files that the t3 uses that aren't necessary externally. Eg the bookmarks and cut list are stored in a separate file so the t3 doesn't need edit the ts file.

The t3 ts files should play on a DP but not 100% and sometimes need to be processed first. But I don't have a DP any more so haven't tries it myself.

It's reallybeasy to get files off of the t3. You can just browse to it like a network drive. The t3 supports different formats for external drives, it only needs to be a specific format if you want to use it to directly record to as an alternative to your internal hard drive. But access by network is easiest. Normally you wouldn't need to copy the file off as you can stream them directly to a PC, tablet, media player etc. the T3 doesn't transcode as a server so the destination needs to support the media format.

I tend not to edit files so others can probably suggest better file editors. I've used video redo to successfully process ts files from my old pvr that wouldn't play properly on the T3. But that isn't free so I just processes them all using a trial copy.

But I think the most important thing is not to assume that the t3 is a direct replacement for the DP just because they are from the same company. There are a lot of differences. When you can't geg the t3 to do something that you did with the DP, think about why you did it that way. Often it was a workaround for the way that the DP worked that has become your custom and practice. With the t3 you may be better to change those learned customs and practices and utilise the t3 strengths.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 08:17

Just to reiterate on what simoncasey said there, you mentioned that your want to copy files to the dp for editing. That won't work, since the files from the t3 are .TS format and not the special dp series format which is a bunch of smaller files that are easy to simply delete when not required.

The speed of copying files off the t3 is much faster than the dp series. It's basically as fast as the 100Mb Ethernet interface. I typically get between 10-12MB/s.

Don't fret too much about the lack of editing capability. Is far easier to do on a PC if you have some decent software, and you end up with a better and more accurate result too. You could even edit the files directly over the network while they were still on the t3 of you wanted, but it would be a bit slower (I haven't tried it). You'd also probably want to delete the associated metafiles of you did that to stop the t3 from getting confused about changed file lengths etc.

jonpanoff · Post by **jonpanoff** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 09:09

Thanks everyone for the input. That should be enough info to bet my teeth into it. Was my first night with it last night and I couldn't get the ads out of a movie I recorded. The DP series was easy peasy. I can see how a PC editor would be quicker as you can see the ads in the timeline and edit at the frame level

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 09:36

On a Mac you could use MPEGStreamclip.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 09:44

netmask wrote:On a Mac you could use MPEGStreamclip.

Which is also available on Windows.

It's what I use (on a Mac) on the rare occasions that I edit something. Even less frequently, I use it to transcode.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:03

I have split the networking problem off into its own topic.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=8679

Swobby · Post by **Swobby** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 14:53

Hi everyone

I've just finished setting up my T3 and have started getting used to operation.

I jumped straight on the forums and found this thread when I suspected my recorded clips weren't able to be cut/edited.

I second the sentiment above - I would not have bought this unit if I knew this.

My question is - is a splicing feature ever going to be a possibility? A plugin perhaps?

I'm in shock this unit can't do it.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 15:21

Swobby wrote:Hi everyone

I've just finished setting up my T3 and have started getting used to operation.

I jumped straight on the forums and found this thread when I suspected my recorded clips weren't able to be cut/edited.

But they can be edited, at least in the sense that "edited out" bits won't be played, even though they are still physically in the recording.

Swobby wrote:... My question is - is a splicing feature ever going to be a possibility? A plugin perhaps?

Applying the cut list to reduce the size of a recording is a function that can be added by installing the moviecut plugin. There's discussion about it here.

I've added a request to the issue tracker that moviecut be made part of the standard distribution.

Swobby wrote:I'm in shock this unit can't do it.

It's not a particularly uncommon limitation. The Topfield 7xxx series has just the same sort of editing limitations, and there is also a plugin (TAP in Topfield-speak) to use the edit cut list to compact the data storage in an edited recording.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 20:02

Swobby wrote:I would not have bought this unit if I knew this.

My question is - is a splicing feature ever going to be a possibility? A plugin perhaps?

I'm in shock this unit can't do it.

Fortunately I saw this limitation and so bought a 3TB HDD with the expectation that we would have a bunch of longer recordings.
What has been a good surprise is the auto bookmarks the PVR has placed in long timers covering several shows eg a recording from 7:30-10:30pm it has the bookmarks for the start of each show.

This has meant less requirement to cut recordings although not 100% reliable. Family Feud for instance the start bookmark is always a couple minutes into the show.

What I haven't tried yet is where I watch 1 show out of 3 and would like to only keep the two unwatched shows... Not sure how to handle that one.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 20:15

Note also that we have recently discovered the "moviecut" plugin that allows you to make the file edits permanent (not just skips) and recover that harddisk space.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 18:57

MrQuade wrote:Note also that we have recently discovered the "moviecut" plugin that allows you to make the file edits permanent (not just skips) and recover that harddisk space.

So does this mean someone just downloads the plugin and its useable or does some extra coding work need to be done?
Can the be imported into the next FW or is it easier as an option enabled as a plugin?

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 19:06

You can download it now, and it works a treat.

It has been requested that it be included in the standard firmware build (formally by prl).

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 19:28

So how do I download it?
Where, how?

And in current downloaded format, can it adversely affect current FW?

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 19:32

Go to the plugin download section of the t3's setup menu, find the one called moviecut, then install it from there.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 19:39

It won't adversely affect the current firmware, but note that if you upgrade the firmwate using usb then you will have to download it again until it is part of the standard firmware, which seems to be the plan.

To use it, select a moves and press menu to apply cut list editor.
Then select Execute cuts from the menu.
It operates in the background so you can continue doing other things. It takes a few minutes to compete, depending on what else you have going on.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 06:47

Thanks for the tips. I downloaded bit but couldn't find it in the plugin section to activate so assume I need to restart the PVR. But as we were recording some shows at the time I'll need to have another look tonight.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 07:28

It's in the menu as Execute cuts. It doesn't need to be activated or anything like that.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59

While it's not the case for moviecuts, plugins will often install themselves, for either their use or their setup, in MENU>Plugins, or in the plugin list in the PLUGIN screen.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:10

Is there a difference between plugins that appear in the plugins list bs those that don't, or is it jut up to the developer of that plugin. The ones that don't appear in the list seem to be integrated into the UI Eg cut list editor, movie cut etc. also imdb lookup.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:26

simoncasey wrote:... is it jut up to the developer of that plugin. ...

Yes.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 15:34

MrQuade wrote:... It has been requested that it be included in the standard firmware build (formally by prl).

Peteru has marked this request as resolved. I assume that the plugin will be preinstalled in the next release

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 16:10

Brilliant!

I am quivering in anticipation of the next beta

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 13:20

I used the movie cuts plug-in but it's very different to the DP series method and lots of button presses and didn't find it very user friendly. I thought I was generally pretty technically savvy, but the T3 has really caused me some headaches.
Just goes to show what a well developed FW a was in the DP series in the end that made me so lazy.

Hopefully it'll be a little easier to use if integrated in the FW?

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 13:23

diesel wrote:I used the movie cuts plug-in but it's very different to the DP series method and lots of button presses and didn't find it very user friendly. I thought I was generally pretty technically savvy, but the T3 has really caused me some headaches.
Just goes to show what a well developed FW a was in the DP series in the end that made me so lazy.

Hopefully it'll be a little easier to use if integrated in the FW?

I assume you mean the cultist editor is hard to use rather than the moviecut plugin? The curliat editor is a different plugin.

If it's integrated I to the firmware it will be exactly as it is now, you just won't need to install it after a firmware upgrade.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 20:24

Apologies, I assumed it was the same thing.
Are they similar?
Is one easier to use then the other?

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 20:29

The moviecut plugin has one function. You run it and point it at a file and it makes your edits permanent by actually cutting out the bits you don't want.

You still need to use the regular cutlist editor to do the editing in the first place like you have already done.

The latest beta firmware now has moviecut built in to the firmware, but it still operates in the same manner.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 21:49

BTW, I agree that the cutlist editor is a dog to use.

I do have a suggestion though.

You can use the regular movie player, with all of the usual skip/pause/ff/step functions and put bookmarks where you want the cuts to be.

Then you use the cutlist editor to put your In and Out marks on those bookmarks (I find navigating to bookmarks in the cutlist editor infinitely easier than trying to navigate blindly round the file with no progress pointer).

You can then invoke the moviecut plugin on that file and it will execute all of the cuts and give you a shiny new file with all the cuts gone.

It turns the whole process into three steps rather than two, but you may find it less painful.

Edit:
It would be great if we could just insert all of the cut in/out/before/after points directly with the regular movie player, say with the colour buttons.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 09:37

MrQuade wrote: It would be great if we could just insert all of the cut in/out/before/after points directly with the regular movie player, say with the colour buttons.

Agreed...again the way it was implemented in the DP series was infinitely easier to use and had higher WAF.
Now that I have a much bigger HDD cutting files is less important and having the bookmarks entered into a multi show recording automagically (I presume based on now next flags) makes file navigation a lot easier and quicker.

But it would be nice to be able to cut files easily if required.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 09:46

On the T3 I think it is easier and quicker to transfer onto a PC. Actually I was wondering if I could open a T3 TS file directly over the network in Womble or VideoRedo and edit in situi?

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 09:52

Yep it works - just selected The Secret Life of Cats ex SBS into the timeline of Womble, made a few cuts and am exporting now to my desktop.

Later when I have time I will try ProjectX as I always want to get subtitles and editing a TS file in a standard mpeg editor destroys that information.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 09:58

netmask wrote:On the T3 I think it is easier and quicker to transfer onto a PC. ...

Even on the DPs I never did any real editing more complicated than top and tail, and that was usually a prelude to copying the recording to my Mac for editing. Not that I ever did much editing.

About the only time I did any other editing on the DP was to generate test cases for getWizPnP's ability to transfer edited files correctly.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:18

It would be good to be able to press a button while watching a recording and set the in and out marks, mainly at the start, Just like setting a bookmark with the 0 key.

Executing the cuts would be useful for people who usebtheir T3 as a media store.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:21

netmask wrote:On the T3 I think it is easier and quicker to transfer onto a PC. Actually I was wondering if I could open a T3 TS file directly over the network in Womble or VideoRedo and edit in situi?

That's only true if you have a PC on and available. I use a laptop mainly so it involves getting it out of my bag and booting it.

Applying a few cuts through the media player and then executing those cuts in the background would be pretty quick.

Does anybody know if moviecut allows you to queue up the execute cuts jobs?

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:33

simoncasey wrote:It would be good to be able to press a button while watching a recording and set the in and out marks, mainly at the start, Just like setting a bookmark with the 0 key.

Executing the cuts would be useful for people who usebtheir T3 as a media store.

Yea, that's what I was getting at with re-purposing the colour buttons to insert your in's and out's.
That way you have access too all of the more advanced playback controls the movie player has.

You'd have to wonder how the movie player would cope with an in cut being added without an out while the file is being played back. You might need to invoke the movie player in a mode that ignores the cuts for playback purposes. Almost seems like a new editor.

simoncasey · Post by **simoncasey** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:41

MrQuade wrote:
simoncasey wrote:It would be good to be able to press a button while watching a recording and set the in and out marks, mainly at the start, Just like setting a bookmark with the 0 key.

Executing the cuts would be useful for people who usebtheir T3 as a media store.
Yea, that's what I was getting at with re-purposing the colour buttons to insert your in's and out's.
That way you have access too all of the more advanced playback controls the movie player has.

You'd have to wonder how the movie player would cope with an in cut being added without an out while the file is being played back. You might need to invoke the movie player in a mode that ignores the cuts for playback purposes. Almost seems like a new editor.

Yes, we've agreed about the colour buttons before as the yellow and green currently have no purpose in media playback.

If you add an in without an out that just means skip from the start to the in point so not an issue as such but you could stuff up. You could then just use the current cutliat editor to remove the cuts and fix up.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 19:47

We made cuts quite a bit. A lot of top and tailing due to extra padding and small HDD (320GB)
But also for multiple shows in one recording. Delete a show as we watched it from a file.

Not such an issue in the T3 with 3TB on board.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 20:02

diesel wrote:We made cuts quite a bit. A lot of top and tailing due to extra padding and small HDD (320GB)
But also for multiple shows in one recording. Delete a show as we watched it from a file.

Not such an issue in the T3 with 3TB on board.

Plus you won't generally be getting multiple shows in one recording on the T3.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 18:54

Gully wrote: Plus you won't generally be getting multiple shows in one recording on the T3.

true, but we're getting multiple recordings of the same show.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 19:23

diesel wrote:
Gully wrote: Plus you won't generally be getting multiple shows in one recording on the T3.
true, but we're getting multiple recordings of the same show.

Very true but they won't need editing.

Swanny · Post by **Swanny** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 18:32

This post applied to a T4
I have successfully copied a .ts file to my iMac desktop and successfully cut the nose padding and tail padding with Xilisoft Video Cutter 2..
I renamed it to prevent disaster and dragged it back to the T4 Hard Disk. All went well, or seemed to with the picture and the audio but alas I lost the Subtitles. I think the other files by the same name may contain the Subtitles.
I think dragging the file with the same name would have made the video crash as it may replace or compete with each other.

I think that the T4 has a video cutter editor, that edits the video not just hides the unwanted parts.
Some help would be great. We love the T4 and its possibility I just need some guidance from time to time.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 18:38

Swanny wrote:... All went well, or seemed to with the picture and the audio but alas I lost the Subtitles. I think the other files by the same name may contain the Subtitles. ...

No. The .ts file in a recording contains all the subtitles. It appears the editor may not preserve them.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 19:03

Swanny wrote: I think that the T4 has a video cutter editor, that edits the video not just hides the unwanted parts.
Some help would be great. We love the T4 and its possibility I just need some guidance from time to time.

You just need to select the file containing the cuts and press "MENU" and then select "Execute cuts".

Swanny · Post by **Swanny** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 21:04

That T4 video cutter looks ideal for what I want. Thanks for the pointer.

Ziege · Post by **Ziege** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 08:14

I've had a range of PVRs over the years and frequently edit/convert TS into mp4/mkv etc.
In the past, it was a very complex "hit & miss" proceedure, involving multiple bits of software.
My eternal search for the perfect all in one software was never realised.
Then came my first Beyonwiz.

Although it's still a TS file, for some unknown reason it's now ridiculously easy to edit/convert.
I've only done it a handful of times since getting the T4, but 100% success is uncanny.
And turning a 1/2 day job into a 1/2hr job is a massive bonus.

Transfer the TS file over to your PC or Mac.
Rename the file to .mp4.
Use your normal editing software and save it as whatever you want.
I've only used (and swear by) the AVS package at http://www.avs4you.com

Please let me know your results.

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