Video " How to Enable Favourites"

[diesel]

Since the last bit of advice from Peter, we have been not having any issues with Favourites.
On the weekend we went away and I packed the Wiz along. I did a rescan (Wollongong) and tuned in the gong channels in to my favourites list and removed the Sydney channels.
Now that I'm back inn Sydney, i want to remove the Wollongong channels from the terrestrial list, but I can't seem to find out how yo do this other than possibly a factory reset?

[muzza]

pressing the up button when watching live TV doesn't do anything. It's a T4 and its doing my head in!

[prl]

Restart the UI or reboot.

What firmware version?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

pressing the up button when watching live TV doesn't do anything. It's a T4 and its doing my head in!

What are you expecting it to do - if it's to bring up the channel list, then press FAV for that.

[MrQuade]

pressing the up button when watching live TV doesn't do anything. It's a T4 and its doing my head in!

I presume that you are pressing UP to open the Channel List?

If you have the UP and DOWN arrow keys configured as skip buttons, the UP button won't do anything when watching live TV.

You need to go into MENU->Setup->System->Button settings and turn off "Enable skip on UP/DOWN". That will disable the skip functions and allow the UP and DOWN keys to open the Channel List instead.

[muzza]

Restart the UI or reboot.
What firmware version?

I did reboot after installing the latest firmware last night.

I've had this box since late last year but I only just got the opportunity to reveal it last night when the DP-P1 started playing up again. I'm pretty much starting the learning process again from scratch.

What are you expecting it to do - if it's to bring up the channel list, then press FAV for that.

Yes, that's my aim. But the manual and the above video say to use the up button. I'm trying to set up my favourites but not getting anywhere.

If you have the UP and DOWN arrow keys configured as skip buttons, the UP button won't do anything when watching live TV.

That's it! I think you've nailed it. I did my initial setup last year and set the skip functions at that time. That explains it.

I'll have another crack, this time using the 'FAV' button and get back to you.

Thanks guys.

[MrQuade]

Yes, that's my aim. But the manual and the above video say to use the up button. I'm trying to set up my favourites but not getting anywhere.

Yep, the (original) manual and that video would have been made prior to prl implementing the UP/DOWN skip capability into the T series firmware.

[Greg Hudson]

Just got my T4 after many years with older machines, and wow, what a change...
After reading you can't assign channels in your favorites list, I figured it was just easier to delete them from the Terrestrial list, then re-delete if I do a re-scan in future. At least this way when my brain says go to ch 90, my fingers move, and I will end up where I want to be.

[MrQuade]

Just got my T4 after many years with older machines, and wow, what a change...
After reading you can't assign channels in your favorites list, I figured it was just easier to delete them from the Terrestrial list, then re-delete if I do a re-scan in future. At least this way when my brain says go to ch 90, my fingers move, and I will end up where I want to be.

Please don't do this. You will potentially break stuff if you go deleting things from the Terrestrial TV LCN bouquet.

You will also find that it will not do what you think it does. If you deleted channel 7 ( for arguments sake), you will find that channel 9 will now be channel 8, channel 10 will be 9 etc etc etc. All the other numbers will get shuffled down by one.

If you are running the latest firmware that was just released to the public in the last week or so, then the T4's web interface will let you set up your Favourites bouquet easily with drag and drop actions. You can even add in spacers so that you can simulate the LCN numbers as you are used to. Go nuts with the Favourites bouquet, but just don't edit Terrestrial TV LCN.

[Wiz HQ]

Yes time for some new videos I think..

[Greg Hudson]

Just got my T4 after many years with older machines, and wow, what a change...
After reading you can't assign channels in your favorites list, I figured it was just easier to delete them from the Terrestrial list, then re-delete if I do a re-scan in future. At least this way when my brain says go to ch 90, my fingers move, and I will end up where I want to be.

Please don't do this. You will potentially break stuff if you go deleting things from the Terrestrial TV LCN bouquet.

You will also find that it will not do what you think it does. If you deleted channel 7 ( for arguments sake), you will find that channel 9 will now be channel 8, channel 10 will be 9 etc etc etc. All the other numbers will get shuffled down by one.

If you are running the latest firmware that was just released to the public in the last week or so, then the T4's web interface will let you set up your Favourites bouquet easily with drag and drop actions. You can even add in spacers so that you can simulate the LCN numbers as you are used to. Go nuts with the Favourites bouquet, but just don't edit Terrestrial TV LCN.

G'Day MrQuade. Thanks for the info on the channel renumbering when deleting a channel. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but perhaps it is better that I have not yet figured out how to delete channels from the T list. I did it by accident, and then had to re-scan, but now I can't remember what I did.
Please tell me, what horrible things will/can happen when deleting from the T list ?
Thanks, Greg.

[MrQuade]

Please tell me, what horrible things will/can happen when deleting from the T list ?

Potentially lockups, crashes, unpredictable behaviour, and confusion.

[prl]

...
Please tell me, what horrible things will/can happen when deleting from the T list ?
...

The underlying problem is that actual LCNs aren't used by the firmware at all. All numbering in bouquets is strictly sequential. In a bouquet like Terrestrial TV LCN, the appearence of non-sequential numbering is achieved by padding, so that when you see something like:
2 ABC
3 SBS
7 Seven
9 Nine
what's actually in the file is
2 ABC
3 SBS
4 (hidden)
5 (hidden)
6 (hidden)
7 Seven
8 (hidden)
9 Nine

Earlier versions of the firmware made a complete mess of this when you tried to move channels in the list in the PVR's TV screen interface, with them moving in jumps and often ending up some where completely different from where they should have been. The new firmware just released (20170310) handles editing much better, so that you can actually move the items reasonably sensibly in the list. However, I don't think it handles deletions the way you'd want them handled (the "LCNs" after the deleted channel would all decrease by one).

The other thing that people often want to achieve, grouping all the services by broadcaster can't be done, because the numbering scheme can only support having monotonically increasing "LCNs".

So something like this can't be achieved in Terrestrial TV LCN:
2 ABC
20 ABC HD
22 ABC2/Kids
23 ABC ME
3 SBS ONE
30 SBS ONE HD
32 SBS VICELAND
...
If you are able to drop the single-digit channels (probably possible in the mainland state capitals), then you can group the channels by broadcaster, but you can't, for example, put the ABC channels after the SBS ones.

Editing bouquets is much easier in the Open WebIf interface, but you can't get around the fixed ordering of "LCNs". I'd still recommend against editing Terrestrial TV LCN, even though it's now easier and more reliable to do, for the simple reason that a channel rescan will wipe all your changes.

However, using the Open WebIf bouquet editor allows you to insert padding in the bouquet yourself, so you could create a bouquet that has only your selected channels, and still has LCN-like numbering, though the order restriction still applies.

I have code close to ready that would make "real" LCN numbering work, but it's a bit of a back-burner effort. Having LCNs work as expected was requested even before the first T series model was released.

[adoxa]

I have code close to ready that would make "real" LCN numbering work, but it's a bit of a back-burner effort.

Good to know, I was about to look into it. Want a tester?

[prl]

I have code close to ready that would make "real" LCN numbering work, but it's a bit of a back-burner effort.

Good to know, I was about to look into it. Want a tester?

Thanks for the offer. I will eventually, but it's still in development. When I do, it will be available to anyone who wants to try it.

[Greg Hudson]

Thanks again for all the information on the potential disaster that may happen by deleting things from the T list (Or bouquet for those in the wedding planner business).
I went and watched the Video on setting up favorites again, and discovered that the video seems to apply to the T3, not the T4.
Pressing the up arrow does nothing for me. I had to press Menu, Channels, Terrestrial to get to the list.
Eventually I managed to copy all 5 HD channels to favorites folder, but the numbers I had to press to display them were ridiculous... 243 for ABC, 244 for 7HD etc etc. So, I went back to the main Terrestrial list again.
Throwing caution to the wind, and against the advice of Doug (MrQuade and others), I proceeded to delete all the unwanted channels....
All seemed OK until I wanted to display Channel 9HD (90). I pressed 90 on the keypad, and Channel 11 appeared.
Examined the list, and nothing made any sense. Most deleted channels were still visible, but with </na> next to them.
So I deleted them all for a second time. This made things even worse. Now I had 3 digit channels all over the place. So much for trying to make things easier. I gave up in the end, and did a full rescan (once I figured out how to do that). Don't ask me how, it was a fluke. BTW, The fav channels were renumbered after the rescan. ABC-HD is now 133, 7HD 134, 9HD 135 etc... (The numbers are exactly 100 less than when they were added (go figure).

BTW, given that my machine has just been built, It came with 2017-03-10 update already installed FYI.

[MrQuade]

I went and watched the Video on setting up favorites again, and discovered that the video seems to apply to the T3, not the T4.
Pressing the up arrow does nothing for me. I had to press Menu, Channels, Terrestrial to get to the list.

The T3 and T4 are practically identical in operation.

The difference you saw is just that the video was made on an older version of firmware where the UP arrow opened the Channel List. Now the UP and DOWN arrow keys are set to allow skips by default, but the skip feature can be turned off, and the UP arrow will then act to open the Channel Lest.

Eventually I managed to copy all 5 HD channels to favorites folder, but the numbers I had to press to display them were ridiculous... 243 for ABC, 244 for 7HD etc etc. So, I went back to the main Terrestrial list again.

You can enable "Alternate numbering" which will mean that each bouquet will start its numbering from 1 instead of each service being numbered uniquely across all bouquets. You can set that option by opening the Channel List pressing MENU and choosing the settings (or configuration) option.

Throwing caution to the wind, and against the advice of Doug (MrQuade and others), I proceeded to delete all the unwanted channels....
All seemed OK until I wanted to display Channel 9HD (90). I pressed 90 on the keypad, and Channel 11 appeared.
Examined the list, and nothing made any sense. Most deleted channels were still visible, but with </na> next to them.
So I deleted them all for a second time. This made things even worse. Now I had 3 digit channels all over the place. So much for trying to make things easier. I gave up in the end, and did a full rescan (once I figured out how to do that). Don't ask me how, it was a fluke. BTW, The fav channels were renumbered after the rescan. ABC-HD is now 133, 7HD 134, 9HD 135 etc... (The numbers are exactly 100 less than when they were added (go figure).

Yep, you just experience the "confusion" I mentioned. Just leave it alone as advised .

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I went and watched the Video on setting up favorites again, and discovered that the video seems to apply to the T3, not the T4.
Pressing the up arrow does nothing for me. I had to press Menu, Channels, Terrestrial to get to the list.

The T3 and T4 are practically identical in operation.

The difference you saw is just that the video was made on an older version of firmware where the UP arrow opened the Channel List. Now the UP and DOWN arrow keys are set to allow skips by default, but the skip feature can be turned off, and the UP arrow will then act to open the Channel Lest.

To display the channel list, press the FAV key from Live TV.

Greg, read this "FAQ: Creating, managing and using Favourites lists"

[Greg Hudson]

I went and watched the Video on setting up favorites again, and discovered that the video seems to apply to the T3, not the T4.
Pressing the up arrow does nothing for me. I had to press Menu, Channels, Terrestrial to get to the list.

The T3 and T4 are practically identical in operation.

The difference you saw is just that the video was made on an older version of firmware where the UP arrow opened the Channel List. Now the UP and DOWN arrow keys are set to allow skips by default, but the skip feature can be turned off, and the UP arrow will then act to open the Channel Lest.

G'Day Grumps, and thanks for your reply.

To display the channel list, press the FAV key from Live TV.

I'm running the 2017-03-15? software version (pre-installed in the factory) on the latest batch of T4's.
Pressing the FAV button now displays the favorites lists/bouquet.
I read somewhere I can change it to display the 'last' list viewed, which is even better.

Greg, read this "FAQ: Creating, managing and using Favourites lists"

I Also went and read the 'Creating managing and using Favorites lists' and that also appears to apply to the T3. However, after reading that, at least now I know what a 'bouquet' means. The other info on that page was also useful. Thanks for the link.
Regards, Greg.

[Gully]

I Also went and read the 'Creating managing and using Favorites lists' and that also appears to apply to the T3. However, after reading that, at least now I know what a 'bouquet' means. The other info on that page was also useful. Thanks for the link.
Regards, Greg.

As already posted when you are reading about firmware it applies to all models even if it was written at a time when only the T3 existed.

It may mean there are changes in the firmware since then, but that generally affects all models, and of course there are a few hardware differences between models but the main functionality is the same.

[Greg Hudson]

I Also went and read the 'Creating managing and using Favorites lists' and that also appears to apply to the T3. However, after reading that, at least now I know what a 'bouquet' means. The other info on that page was also useful. Thanks for the link.
Regards, Greg.

As already posted when you are reading about firmware it applies to all models even if it was written at a time when only the T3 existed.

G'Day Gully. I'm speaking from a new user standpoint, not a long time T series user like you guys.
A simple rename of the subject could be a simple solution... Just add 'for T3' on the end. (The text after the video already includes it)

The Video, does not indicate that it is for a T3, so expecting me or anyone else new to magically interpret instructions that simply do not work on the T4 is a bit of a stretch. Sorry, but this is how I see it. Someone had obviously put a lot of work into the T3 video and text, but that doesn't help 'new' T4 users with no previous experience. Yes, they (T3 & T4) may be very similar, but in reality, the differences between keystrokes are enough to suggest an updated video for the T4 is in order. If I knew how to do it, I'd do it myself.

It may mean there are changes in the firmware since then, but that generally affects all models, and of course there are a few hardware differences between models but the main functionality is the same.

I wasn't talking about firmware, although I can see it is part of the problem.

[MrQuade]

A simple rename of the subject could be a simple solution... Just add 'for T3' on the end. (The text after the video already includes it)

The Video, does not indicate that it is for a T3, so expecting me or anyone else new to magically interpret instructions that simply do not work on the T4 is a bit of a stretch. Sorry, but this is how I see it. Someone had obviously put a lot of work into the T3 video and text, but that doesn't help 'new' T4 users with no previous experience. Yes, they (T3 & T4) may be very similar, but in reality, the differences between keystrokes are enough to suggest an updated video for the T4 is in order. If I knew how to do it, I'd do it myself.

No, that is not correct though. Gully's point was that the T3 and T4 are *identical* in that regard. The is no difference in the way you manage and access favorites between the two.

The reason the instructions are different is because the instructions were made a while ago when the default button settings were different.

That also happened to be at a time when the T3 was the only T series Wiz available. Since then the T4 was released and the firmware for both T3 and T4 had evolved together.

So, in short, of you have either a T3 or T4 and want to access you favorites list by pressing the UP arrow like in the video, then you have to disable the UP/DOWN skip function. That will make both types of Wiz work like the demo in the video.


(BTW, your quoting got messed up somewhere)

[prl]

... (BTW, your quoting got messed up somewhere)

Indeed.

If you edit quotes (and really any time you post), the forum Preview button is your friend

[Gully]

(BTW, your quoting got messed up somewhere)

I've fixed up the quoting in Greg's post so that should help.

And you have responded to most of it. I'll just add there is a lot of material here so going through and reviewing all the changes could take a while though I appreciate it can be a trap for newer users.

What they need to appreciate is we are all, with the very rare exception, fellow users like them, doing this in our own time. So those things are not always the highest priority, if at all.

[Greg Hudson]

No, that is not correct though. Gully's point was that the T3 and T4 are *identical* in that regard. The is no difference in the way you manage and access favorites between the two.

The reason the instructions are different is because the instructions were made a while ago when the default button settings were different.

That also happened to be at a time when the T3 was the only T series Wiz available. Since then the T4 was released and the firmware for both T3 and T4 had evolved together.

So, in short, of you have either a T3 or T4 and want to access you favorites list by pressing the UP arrow like in the video, then you have to disable the UP/DOWN skip function. That will make both types of Wiz work like the demo in the video.

Ah Ha, now I understand. It is a difference in firmware on both T3 and T4, not a difference between the 2 machines as such.
However, one would still need to be a psychic to figure out disabling the skip up/down buttons would mean the instructions of the video would then be correct. It is certainly not obvious from the video.

So, the 'title' of the video is still incorrect. It should have the firmware version number included, so that people with the latest firmware version don't bother viewing or reading outdated info. This is just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Thanks for clarifying what's going on... Your reply is appreciated (as are the others).

[Greg Hudson]

(BTW, your quoting got messed up somewhere)

I've fixed up the quoting in Greg's post so that should help.

And you have responded to most of it. I'll just add there is a lot of material here so going through and reviewing all the changes could take a while though I appreciate it can be a trap for newer users.

What they need to appreciate is we are all, with the very rare exception, fellow users like them, doing this in our own time. So those things are not always the highest priority, if at all.

G'Day Gully & MrQuade.
I must apologize then. I assumed (not a good idea) that the video was made by BW, not by fellow users...
Pretty dumb of me, having been a BW user for many many years (at least 10 or so). DP-P2 just retired, about to go on to eBay.
Regards, Greg.

[prl]

...
I must apologize then. I assumed (not a good idea) that the video was made by BW, not by fellow users...
Pretty dumb of me, having been a BW user for many many years (at least 10 or so). DP-P2 just retired, about to go on to eBay. ...

Not dumb at all. The "Favourites" video was made and posted by Beyonwiz, as were all the "sticky" videos in T2 / T3 / T4 FAQs, Tips & How to Guides. They were posted by Wiz HQ, which is the handle that Beyonwiz Australia's (i.e. Digital Trading Australia's) general manager posts under. All other posts are from users, some more knowledgeable than others.

My post on the subject, FAQ: Creating, managing and using Favourites lists enters the favourites lists using a slightly less direct path, but one that has always worked, and which will work no matter what your setting is for MENU>Setup>System>Button settings>Enable skip on UP/DOWN. That's because it was written after UP/DOWN was changed to allow its use for skips (and indeed, made it the default).

But that also has some deficiencies (like not describing how to add to a favorites list if the user has disabled Enable multiple bouquets, or that there's a more convenient way to manage bouquets by using Open Webif on your computer's browser). There's some work currently being done by adoxa that will change how you can add/remove favourites (and other bouquet) entries.