T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Hi
I've recently upgraded from a T2 to a T4. One reason was to have the HDMI input and to have the possibility of occasionally recording from my generic Chinese streaming box (e.g if Netflix is about to remove a series from their platform before we have had a chance to watch the last episode).
I understand that there may be an HDCP issue, and that a splitter box is the way to overcome this. From what I have read, not all HDMI splitter boxes can achieve this.
Beyonwiz sell one which I guess may do the job, but $ are tight and there are cheaper ones on eBay. My question is: what to look for, and is the advertising of a box as a "HDCP stripper" mean that there is a very high chance that it will work? Does "HDCP compatible mean the opposite - i.e that the HDCP will function as intended and no recording is possible?
How does this one look?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HDMI-1-in-2 ... :rk:2:pf:0
Thanks
I've recently upgraded from a T2 to a T4. One reason was to have the HDMI input and to have the possibility of occasionally recording from my generic Chinese streaming box (e.g if Netflix is about to remove a series from their platform before we have had a chance to watch the last episode).
I understand that there may be an HDCP issue, and that a splitter box is the way to overcome this. From what I have read, not all HDMI splitter boxes can achieve this.
Beyonwiz sell one which I guess may do the job, but $ are tight and there are cheaper ones on eBay. My question is: what to look for, and is the advertising of a box as a "HDCP stripper" mean that there is a very high chance that it will work? Does "HDCP compatible mean the opposite - i.e that the HDCP will function as intended and no recording is possible?
How does this one look?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HDMI-1-in-2 ... :rk:2:pf:0
Thanks
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Can't really say if that one will work. We'd be interested to know if you try it out. Latest models are 4k compatible whereas mine is only 1080p. I only route 1080p to the HDMI IN so the 4k capability is not important with current gear.
Got it off eBay ages ago and it works fine but the exact model is no longer listed. Nearest visual equivalent is the $17.95 item from pefectech4u but again, I can't say it will work either.
Not really at all helpful. Your option is worth a try.
Note that you may get lipsync issues with recordings on HDMI-IN, especially if the framerates are not matched. The T4 tends to work best at 720p60 when recording.
Got it off eBay ages ago and it works fine but the exact model is no longer listed. Nearest visual equivalent is the $17.95 item from pefectech4u but again, I can't say it will work either.
Not really at all helpful. Your option is worth a try.
Note that you may get lipsync issues with recordings on HDMI-IN, especially if the framerates are not matched. The T4 tends to work best at 720p60 when recording.
Last edited by Paul_oz53 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:18, edited 1 time in total.
__________________________________
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Hi Paul
Thanks for your reply.
Please could you say a bit more about the lip sync issue, 1080P etc. I only have limited knowledge of modern video standards, 4K etc. Are lip sync issues inevitable (and un-fixable) if I have bought a particular type of streaming box?
This is the streaming box I have: [url https://www.screencast.com/t/2eBSrhugzivO
And this is the splitter listed by perfectech4u - is this the one you meant (similar to yours)?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1080P-HDMI- ... :rk:3:pf:0
Regards
Paul
Melbourne
Thanks for your reply.
Please could you say a bit more about the lip sync issue, 1080P etc. I only have limited knowledge of modern video standards, 4K etc. Are lip sync issues inevitable (and un-fixable) if I have bought a particular type of streaming box?
This is the streaming box I have: [url https://www.screencast.com/t/2eBSrhugzivO
And this is the splitter listed by perfectech4u - is this the one you meant (similar to yours)?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1080P-HDMI- ... :rk:3:pf:0
Regards
Paul
Melbourne
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Hi Paul,
Yes, that's the splitter look alike.
I have a WizFX dongle, Chromecast and Foxtel box through a switch to the Splitter and then to HDMI-IN.
Lipsync can be quite frustrating at times. It is not always a problem though. Sometimes the source is at fault, around 250 to 270 ms delayed. If Foxtel you can correct 200ms which usually is near enough to make it tolerable. The preferred output when connected to the TV is 1080p50. If I record with the T4 input set at 720p60 the sound sync can be out by more than 300ms. I haven't done enough drama though to properly quantify the issue at other framerates. My stuff is mainly sports related.
If I watch on a PC I correct the audio in VLC. Occasionally, I have converted a show to mkv and adjusted the audio in the reencoding or I have remuxed it to mp4 with audio delay to fix it. Not always successfully.
Yes, that's the splitter look alike.
I have a WizFX dongle, Chromecast and Foxtel box through a switch to the Splitter and then to HDMI-IN.
Lipsync can be quite frustrating at times. It is not always a problem though. Sometimes the source is at fault, around 250 to 270 ms delayed. If Foxtel you can correct 200ms which usually is near enough to make it tolerable. The preferred output when connected to the TV is 1080p50. If I record with the T4 input set at 720p60 the sound sync can be out by more than 300ms. I haven't done enough drama though to properly quantify the issue at other framerates. My stuff is mainly sports related.
If I watch on a PC I correct the audio in VLC. Occasionally, I have converted a show to mkv and adjusted the audio in the reencoding or I have remuxed it to mp4 with audio delay to fix it. Not always successfully.
Last edited by Paul_oz53 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:19, edited 1 time in total.
__________________________________
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
I'll order that splitter box like yours and see how we go.
Thanks for your help.
Paul
Thanks for your help.
Paul
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
As someone who's made over 1,000 hdmi recordings, I can't say that I've ever had (and I would notice it) lipsync issues.
As for the best frame rate, that all depends on the source (and the device you are using).
For Foxtel Now (I use both a telstra tv 1 and a vodafone tv box), I watch both sports and movies and record at 50fps. For things like Netflix & Stan (using both a PS4 & Xbox One) I record at 60fps.
I also find that setting the bit rate to 5Mb/s is good enough (considering the T4 only records 1280x720).
edit - I also have a similar splitter that Paul has.
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Thanks - I've just ordered that same splitter.
I hope I also have no problems with lip sync - very annoying when it happens on normal b/cast TV occasionally.
Another possibility if it does happen: I see that the streaming box has a 3.5 mm jack socket marked "AV". I'm hoping that this is analogue audio and video out. This could be connected to the analogue A/V input on an old SONY DVR/DVD recorder I have in the cupboard. This is so old it doesn't have HDMI sockets, but it does have analogue (Yellow + Red + White) sockets both in and out, the output of which can be connected to the analogue A/V input in the TV.
This old Sony beast could then be used just for recording from the streaming box (which I don't think I will be doing very much). It's would all be hidden away in a TV cabinet with using IR remote control extender, so the extra clutter should pass the domestic tidiness test!
Cheers
Paul
PS On other question: We may update the TV at some point to one with a larger screen. Do any modern TV's have built-in lip sync adjustment via the IR remote, for delaying either audio or video as required? Or is it possible to get an external box to do this? (probably overkill, and heaven forbid, another box!) Just curious.
I hope I also have no problems with lip sync - very annoying when it happens on normal b/cast TV occasionally.
Another possibility if it does happen: I see that the streaming box has a 3.5 mm jack socket marked "AV". I'm hoping that this is analogue audio and video out. This could be connected to the analogue A/V input on an old SONY DVR/DVD recorder I have in the cupboard. This is so old it doesn't have HDMI sockets, but it does have analogue (Yellow + Red + White) sockets both in and out, the output of which can be connected to the analogue A/V input in the TV.
This old Sony beast could then be used just for recording from the streaming box (which I don't think I will be doing very much). It's would all be hidden away in a TV cabinet with using IR remote control extender, so the extra clutter should pass the domestic tidiness test!
Cheers
Paul
PS On other question: We may update the TV at some point to one with a larger screen. Do any modern TV's have built-in lip sync adjustment via the IR remote, for delaying either audio or video as required? Or is it possible to get an external box to do this? (probably overkill, and heaven forbid, another box!) Just curious.
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
I was about to post that there is not much chance of that (mainly because this is the sort of thing that is handled by most modern A/V Receivers), but it turns out that my new LG OLED55C8PTA tv has a lipsync setting.ample wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:15...
PS On other question: We may update the TV at some point to one with a larger screen. Do any modern TV's have built-in lip sync adjustment via the IR remote, for delaying either audio or video as required? Or is it possible to get an external box to do this? (probably overkill, and heaven forbid, another box!) Just curious.
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Star6key wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:00As someone who's made over 1,000 hdmi recordings, I can't say that I've ever had (and I would notice it) lipsync issues.
As for the best frame rate, that all depends on the source (and the device you are using).
For Foxtel Now (I use both a telstra tv 1 and a vodafone tv box), I watch both sports and movies and record at 50fps. For things like Netflix & Stan (using both a PS4 & Xbox One) I record at 60fps.
I also find that setting the bit rate to 5Mb/s is good enough (considering the T4 only records 1280x720).
edit - I also have a similar splitter that Paul has.
Oops, when I said 1080p I completely forgot that that rate is the U4, which I have not tested properly. It only had the Dongle in it for a brief test which didn't go well. I'll edit my posts back to 720p.
I think what I see mostly is because Foxtel sports programs have random audio sync settings out by more than 200ms. It really shows up badly on driver and player interviews after the event.
Peteru strongly recommended recording at 60 fps at one point but the native framerate of most other devices is at 50 fps. I rather suspect this to be a cause but I haven't had the time and access to really investigate this properly.
__________________________________
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
I have a Panasonic Viera of 9 years "vintage" and it doesn't have a lipsync correction function. A TV shouldn't really need it anyway, as it should delay sound to compensate for any delay in video mpg decoding. In fact, I route the audio from my T4 to my amp via the TV (HDMI) rather than direct T4->amp for this reason. I can't say I notice any lipsync problems either broadcast or playback from the T4, except for the odd movie here or there, which is likely a problem with the source material.
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Depending on your equipment, sometimes routing signals via the TV input then to the receiver can lead to even more sync issues. In your case, it is fortunate that you ended up with a satisfactory solution.stevebow wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:43In fact, I route the audio from my T4 to my amp via the TV (HDMI) rather than direct T4->amp for this reason. I can't say I notice any lipsync problems either broadcast or playback from the T4, except for the odd movie here or there, which is likely a problem with the source material.
Logitech Harmony Ultimate+Elite RCs
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
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Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
stevebow wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:43
I have a Panasonic Viera of 9 years "vintage" and it doesn't have a lipsync correction function. A TV shouldn't really need it anyway, as it should delay sound to compensate for any delay in video mpg decoding. In fact, I route the audio from my T4 to my amp via the TV (HDMI) rather than direct T4->amp for this reason. I can't say I notice any lipsync problems either broadcast or playback from the T4, except for the odd movie here or there, which is likely a problem with the source material.
The lipsync issue only arises with HDMI-IN recordings and then, it's very dependent on the source and framerates.
My amp can correct anything I throw at it so it's only stuff I burn to DVD that is of concern.
__________________________________
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Paul
Beyonwiz T4, 2 x U4: FW - 19.3 20211010
Samsung QA85Q80BAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung QA65Q80TAWXXY 4K TV
Samsung HW Q800BXY soundbar
OverlayHD 1.70, IceTV, Foxtel IQ4
2 x Win7 PCs, 2 x Win10 PCs
Denon AVR -X2400H
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
I've just bought the U4 & have the same HDCP problem trying to connect Foxtel IQ3 through the HDMI input.
Did you get that splitter & did it work?
Did you get that splitter & did it work?
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
The Beyonwiz supplied splitter will fix the black-screen HDCP issues.
Alternative splitters do exist on ebay too, though you run the risk of buying one that won't deal with the HDCP that way.
Welcome to the forum and good work on using search .
Logitech Harmony Ultimate+Elite RCs
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Thanks for the reply. I've got a splitter now that works.
Next step was after recording trying to edit (which the book that comes with the U4 is useless). Took me about 4 hours but finally worked out to go into the cut editor & use the red & green buttons to cut.
But next problem was when I selected execute cuts got an error "Error cutting failed for movie (HDMI IN) couldn't open input .ap file". I found someone on another forum said to download a plugin "reconstructapsc" but that didn't say from where (can't find any plugin downloads on the Beyonwiz website) or how to install. Any help would be greatly appreciated by this newbe.
Next step was after recording trying to edit (which the book that comes with the U4 is useless). Took me about 4 hours but finally worked out to go into the cut editor & use the red & green buttons to cut.
But next problem was when I selected execute cuts got an error "Error cutting failed for movie (HDMI IN) couldn't open input .ap file". I found someone on another forum said to download a plugin "reconstructapsc" but that didn't say from where (can't find any plugin downloads on the Beyonwiz website) or how to install. Any help would be greatly appreciated by this newbe.
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Plugins age installed from the main menu.
MENU->Setup->Plugins->Download plugins
The recobstructapsc plugin should be under "extensions".
Is your firmware up to date? Earlier firmware revisions didn't write the ap and SC files properly, bit that was fixed a long way back. Or have you moved the recording to a different location without the associated files?
MENU->Setup->Plugins->Download plugins
The recobstructapsc plugin should be under "extensions".
Is your firmware up to date? Earlier firmware revisions didn't write the ap and SC files properly, bit that was fixed a long way back. Or have you moved the recording to a different location without the associated files?
Logitech Harmony Ultimate+Elite RCs
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
I installed the latest firmware before I started using it as per instructions. I haven't moved the recording though I did rename it before I used the cut editor. I don't have the U4 connected to any network or wifi can't use the plugin download via the menu. Is there somewhere else I can download it to a usb like I did the firmware?
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Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
http://beta.beyonwiz.org/beyonwiz/17.5/ ... t13000.ipk
Download the above to USB, insert USB into U4, install.
It's already installed as a command so you don't actually need the plugin - but you need to have a networked Wiz and need to be familiar with the command line
Once installed, press MENU after the HDMI recording is selected in the media selection list.
Re: T4 - recording from streaming box (HDCP issue)
Renaming the recording has probably caused the filenames to get out of sync.
You need to have renamed all of the recording files if you did it via the file manager. If you rename the recording from the media player interface then it should rename all the files automatically.
You need to have renamed all of the recording files if you did it via the file manager. If you rename the recording from the media player interface then it should rename all the files automatically.
Logitech Harmony Ultimate+Elite RCs
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices
Beyonwiz T2/3/U4/V2, DP-S1 PVRs
Denon AVR-X3400h, LG OLED65C7T TV
QNAP TS-410 NAS, Centos File Server (Hosted under KVM)
Ubiquiti UniFi Managed LAN/WLAN, Draytek Vigor130/Asus RT-AC86U Internet
Pixel 4,5&6, iPad 3 Mobile Devices