TIPS - Copy/Move to USB

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:32

Just some short notes/tips on using an external USB HDD.

I did start to post a comprehensive Do's and Don'ts list about a week ago but just I was about to press 'submit' we had a momentary blackout here!

Hopefully I'll find the time to retype it all and add it to this post.

Anything you can do to one file you can do to multiple files.

e.g.
- move
- copy
- delete
- add to playlist
- play

To select the files you use the blue button. It's listed on the 'help' at the bottom of the file list screen . Each file you 'select' will have a tick added to the box on the right of the filename. Then you just select what you want to do with the selected files.

e.g.
- Green button to delete them
- Yellow button to add to them to the playlist
- Popup > Move to move them
- Popup > Copy to copy them

Note: After selecting the files you don't even have to have one of the selected files highlighted when choosing what action to take. i.e. If you have files 1 to 4 ticked and file #6 is highlighted pressing the green button will only delete files 1 to 4 - and not file #6.

Speed:

- A USB HDD is much faster than a Memory Card.
- I have found that copying is about 25 to 40% faster than moving.
- The reported duration at the start seems accurate for moving, but 25 to 40% pessimistic for copying. i.e. It reports the same duration for a copy or move operation performed on the same file.

Making it easy to see the USB HDD in Windows Explorer:

Create a text file in the root directory of the USB HDD and save it as 'autorun.inf'. Then open autorun.inf in notepad and paste the following:

Code: Select all

[autorun]
ICON=ICON.ICO

Then save autorun.inf and (optionally) set the Hidden attribute.

Now find a suitable icon and save it to the root directory of your USB HDD as 'icon.ico'. Optionally you can also set icon.ico's Hidden attribute. If you don't have a suitable icon you can extract one from an exe or dll file using reshacker or exescope.

Now when you connect the USB HDD to a Windows PC (and Mac and Linux?) you're USB HDD will be listed in Windows Explorer with the icon you used instead of the Windows default icon (which if have mutliple card readers and USB HDDs all look the same!).

damodags · Post by **damodags** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 17:16

I tried copying to my maxtor drive 500 GB drive but it wouldn't let me.

Stuck with using my 4gb usb drive which doesn't hold much more than a 30 minute episode

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 17:24

Did you format the Maxtor drive via the bw's menu?

damodags · Post by **damodags** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 18:11

No
I am using it with windows vista - it's got heaps of mp3's and avi's on it

I know if i did format it via beyonwiz it would work ... but that would mean dumping the GB's of files onto my pc

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 21:39

damodags wrote:No
I am using it with windows vista - it's got heaps of mp3's and avi's on it

I know if i did format it via beyonwiz it would work ... but that would mean dumping the GB's of files onto my pc

You could then put them back onto the USB HDD - assuming none are larger than 2GB.

I still haven't had a look to see just what it is that the formatting via the bw does that is different to formatting via Windows (except for the symlink).

TT · Post by TT » Sun Jul 29, 2007 14:08

Dave? wrote:
damodags wrote:No
I am using it with windows vista - it's got heaps of mp3's and avi's on it

I know if i did format it via beyonwiz it would work ... but that would mean dumping the GB's of files onto my pc
You could then put them back onto the USB HDD - assuming none are larger than 2GB.

I still haven't had a look to see just what it is that the formatting via the bw does that is different to formatting via Windows (except for the symlink).

I am only having problems with files larger than 4GB.

Cheers TT

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 14:57

TT wrote:I am only having problems with files larger than 4GB.

FAT32 only supports file sizes up to 4GB (minus 2 bytes).

TT · Post by TT » Sun Jul 29, 2007 16:19

Dave? wrote:
TT wrote:I am only having problems with files larger than 4GB.
FAT32 only supports file sizes up to 4GB (minus 2 bytes).

There's one in every crowd

I just new someone would say that.

Cheers TT

PS just did a search see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
appears we are both wrong. 4Gb -1byte

Except of course I was talking in general terms. Also note FAT16 is only 2GB.

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 19:04

TT wrote:PS just did a search see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
appears we are both wrong. 4Gb -1byte

Except Wikipedia can be written and edited by anyone. I could go and edit that page and change it to say 4GB - 3bytes

If you read more of that page you linked to you'll notice that 3/5ths of the way down the page there is a yellow box stating that a lot of the info is in dispute over it's factual accuracy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:File_ ... e#Disputed

And more specifically this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:File_ ... e#Max_size which says that it's 4GB -2 bytes... and then says it's 4GB -1 byte.

But, you're right, I was wrong. I searched the Microsoft Web site and found numerous articles confirming that the file-size limit on FAT32 is (2^32)-1 bytes, or one byte less than a full 4GB.

Either way it's 4GB in general terms. And unless you're writing software saying it's 4GB won't be an issue.

Timbo · Post by **Timbo** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:57

Is there a limit to the number of files the unit can handle on a FAT32 USB external HDD?
It seems once you get to around 6000 files on the external HDD, the unit thinks it is full & wont save anymore files to it.
I have a 1Tb drive partitioned into 3 equal drives.
I connect the HDD to a laptop & can then move files from one partition to another to fill up the remaining space.
Should I make smaller partitions to accommodate this if there is a limitation ?

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:59

Timbo wrote:Is there a limit to the number of files the unit can handle on a FAT32 USB external HDD?
It seems once you get to around 6000 files on the external HDD, the unit thinks it is full & wont save anymore files to it.
I have a 1Tb drive partitioned into 3 equal drives.
I connect the HDD to a laptop & can then move files from one partition to another to fill up the remaining space.
Should I make smaller partitions to accommodate this if there is a limitation ?

This could be a limitation on the number of entries the BW can hold in its internal representation recordings on the drive, rather than an intrinsic limitation of the file system or driver, but I don't know that for certain.

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 21:51

Timbo wrote:It seems once you get to around 6000 files on the external HDD, the unit thinks it is full & wont save anymore files to it.

Is this 6000 files in the root of a partition? If yes, try putting them in directories (6000 or less per directory - preferably a lot less).

Timbo · Post by **Timbo** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:13

Nope... each TV show is recorded by Beyonwiz unit & is in its own folder (20-300file).
I now have attached a second empty HDD which I move shows to, then connect a LapTop to both External HDD's & move the folders across to my 1Tb HDD.
This works... but a pain in the B#T ! :-\

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:32

It's definitely not a FAT32 issue:

The max files and folders per folder are:
FAT16 - 512
FAT32 - 65,534
NTFS - 4,294,967,295

Could be an embedded linux issue? Or a sigma chipsets issue?

Timbo · Post by **Timbo** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 22:54

Doh !

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:36

Timbo wrote:Doh !

I don't see what's so obviously wrong. I doubt that the problem is either a uClinux or a chipset problem. The chipset knows nothing of the file system. Unless Sigma Designs or Beyonwiz have deliberately hobbled the filesystem driver for FAT32, I can't see why it would be uClinux.

I suspect that if the problem is reproducible, it's something in the Beyonwiz main application, possibly some fixed-size table used for managing recordings in the GUI. That's a guess, but it seems to me to be the most likely of the suggestions so far.

Stang65 · Post by **Stang65** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 08:47

Dave? wrote:FAT32 only supports file sizes up to 4GB (minus 2 bytes).

Hi Dave. Sorry for the dumb question, but does this mean that if I buy a USB HDD which I want to use to back-up files from by BW that I have to format the drive from by BW (so that I can actually write files to it from my BW), but then I can only save files that are smaller than 4GB on it? So, for example, I would be unable to save my .mkv movie files on it which I watch on my BW?

Thanks

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 09:22

Stang65 wrote:
Dave? wrote:FAT32 only supports file sizes up to 4GB (minus 2 bytes).
Hi Dave. Sorry for the dumb question, but does this mean that if I buy a USB HDD which I want to use to back-up files from by BW that I have to format the drive from by BW (so that I can actually write files to it from my BW), but then I can only save files that are smaller than 4GB on it? So, for example, I would be unable to save my .mkv movie files on it which I watch on my BW?

Thanks

Beyonwiz format recordings have no files in them bigger than 32MB. The internal drive on the BW is also formatted in FAT32, so Beyonwiz recordings can never have files 4GiB or larger on them anyway. It should always be possible to copy a recording the BW has made onto the USB drive formatted in FAT32.

Where things get a bit less clear is where you've copied other media onto the BW, and want to copy them off onto the USB drive. When large media files are copied into the Beyonwiz contents folder, the BW automatically splits them into smaller files if they are too large. Normally, it reconstructs these into a single file when you copy from the BW, but I'm not sure what happens if the destination file system can't support large files, like a USB FAT32 drive. It's even less clear to me what happens if you try to copy to a Windows Share on a FAT32 drive. Has anyone tried either of these?

Another approach that lets you copy large media files onto the BW internal drive is to take advantage of the fact that the Beyonwiz can read, but not write to, NTFS file systems, and that it correctly handles USB HDDs with more than one volume (partition). On a Windows PC (or Linux box that supports writing to NTFS), make two volumes on the HDD, one formatted FAT32, and one formatted NTFS. Use the NTFS volume to copy large media files to the BW, and the FAT32 partition to copy recordings from the BW. Another minor irritation is that Windows won't let you partition a volume larger than 32GB as FAT32. But there's a workaround. Mac OSX users may be able to install ntfs-3g to allow them to format NTFS partitions and write to them. I haven't tried it on my Mac.

Or use the network, but some folk may not have that option.

Stang65 · Post by **Stang65** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:15

Thanks Peter. I originally tried backing up my files via my network, but no matter what I did I could not get the BW to write to my PC. It could read no problem, play my files no problem, but as soon as I tried to move a file or copy a file it kept on telling me the drive was read-only (which it isn't). Hence why I was going for the USB, but from the sounds of it this will only help me with storing my BW files, but not give me extra storage for my movie files.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:26

Someone posted a good tip a couple of days ago. Make sure that both your filesharing priviledges and folder permission priviledges have "everyone" with full access for the folder you want to share. With WinXP when you aren't using "simple file sharing" you will have 2 TABs when you right click a folder to get the properties of it to achieve this.
Then you will be able to upload files (once you clear and rescan your network with the Wiz, as remember, it caches the server details including possibly permissions, so any change on the PC you should clear all and rescan on the WIz).
Regards

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:37

Stang65 wrote:Thanks Peter. I originally tried backing up my files via my network, but no matter what I did I could not get the BW to write to my PC. It could read no problem, play my files no problem, but as soon as I tried to move a file or copy a file it kept on telling me the drive was read-only (which it isn't). Hence why I was going for the USB, but from the sounds of it this will only help me with storing my BW files, but not give me extra storage for my movie files.

Sounds like a problem with network setup. Have you set up a matching account on the BW and the computer?

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:39

Also, I'm not sure if this is true, but the BW manual states that you can't use the windows "Guest" account for transferring files off the BW, so you need to use a different user account and set up the user name and password in the "Windows Sharing" section of the Setup menu.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:04

madmax wrote:Also, I'm not sure if this is true, but the BW manual states that you can't use the windows "Guest" account for transferring files off the BW, so you need to use a different user account and set up the user name and password in the "Windows Sharing" section of the Setup menu.

My understanding is that that is a characteristic of the SMB protocol. Guest access is read-only no matter what the SMB or folder permissions are.

Stang65 · Post by **Stang65** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 15:49

Gully wrote:Sounds like a problem with network setup. Have you set up a matching account on the BW and the computer?

This is going to sound a bit stupid to you guys, but as a total computer novice I just followed the Network set-up instructions in the BW manual, changed my Permissions so that Everyone had Read and Write access and assumed this would work. Particularly as I could read the files easily. I'll go away and read up how to create an account on my PC for the BW and then set the the BW up to match this account. I assume this is fairly easy? I must admit I didn't appreciate I was using a "Guest" access at all.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 16:13

Stang65 wrote:
Gully wrote:Sounds like a problem with network setup. Have you set up a matching account on the BW and the computer?
This is going to sound a bit stupid to you guys, but as a total computer novice I just followed the Network set-up instructions in the BW manual, changed my Permissions so that Everyone had Read and Write access and assumed this would work. Particularly as I could read the files easily. I'll go away and read up how to create an account on my PC for the BW and then set the the BW up to match this account. I assume this is fairly easy? I must admit I didn't appreciate I was using a "Guest" access at all.

You'll probably find more information in the appropriate Network Tips sticky in Networking your Beyonwiz.

The How connect to shared files on Windows guide in the Beyonwiz guides page is also pretty good if you have Windows XP.

Stang65 · Post by **Stang65** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 18:34

prl wrote:You'll probably find more information in the appropriate Network Tips sticky in Networking your Beyonwiz.

The How connect to shared files on Windows guide in the Beyonwiz guides page is also pretty good if you have Windows XP.

Thanks. I can't wait to get home now and see if I can finally get this to work.

Stang65 · Post by **Stang65** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 17:14

Network now works fine. Thanks very much for all your help.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 17:24

Stang65 wrote:Network now works fine. Thanks very much for all your help.

Glad to be able to help.

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:31

Hi guys I am thinking this is the right section to ask this question.
I have a DP-P2 and would like to transfer SD recorded files from the the HDD to an external HDD via USB, now I have purchased a WD 1TB my book essential edition, and have tried to follow the instructions outlined on this forum firstly by formatting the hard drive with a format tool called FAT32FormatterEN - http://tokiwa.qee.jp/EN/Fat32Formatter/ , this was carried out successfully but here in lies the problem. When I attempt to format the hard drive again on the BW it doesn't recognise it, when I try to record on it, a message appears telling me there is not enough space. I must be overlooking something , please help me.

Chris.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:52

You can't record onto an external drive (you can transfer existing files to/from the drive from the Wiz GUI though). If you formatted it ok with FAT32format, there is no need to format it again with the Wiz?

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:17

Thanks for the reply Tony, I should probably explain better I have already recorded the files to the internal HDD in my P2 I would now like to transfer them from the internal drive to the external USB HDD. I have tried to select the file in the menu then via the popup menu "copy file" I get the message about how large the file is and how long it will take but when I agree proceed with the operation I am told there is not enough space, I am not really sure why it would be telling me this , any ideas?

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:23

The "not enough space" error message is also used in come contexts if you don't have write permission

Are you sure the USB HDD is formatted as FAT32? If it's NTFS formatted that could be causing the "out of space" message.

You could also try reformatting it on the Beyonwiz and see if that helps.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:34

prl wrote:You could also try reformatting it on the Beyonwiz and see if that helps.

I believe he already tried that, and it failed... The best thing to do is format with FAT32format, as before, copy one or two files onto it (on the PC) and make sure the Wiz is 100% happy with reading files from it then. Then try to copy from the GUI.
Regards

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:37

Thanks for that Peter,
As far as I can tell the USB HDD is formatted in FAT32 , I can access what I think is the USB HDD's root Partition on the BW which I am guessing is NTFS as is tells me that is "read only",
I am a little sus on why I cannot format the USB HDD on the BW

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:39

tonymy01 wrote:
prl wrote:You could also try reformatting it on the Beyonwiz and see if that helps.
I believe he already tried that, and it failed... The best thing to do is format with FAT32format, as before, copy one or two files onto it (on the PC) and make sure the Wiz is 100% happy with reading files from it then. Then try to copy from the GUI.
Regards

Thats not a bad idea I will give that a go and report back, thanks again

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:43

flyfisho wrote:Thanks for that Peter,
As far as I can tell the USB HDD is formatted in FAT32 , I can access what I think is the USB HDD's root Partition on the BW which I am guessing is NTFS as is tells me that is "read only",
I am a little sus on why I cannot format the USB HDD on the BW

I'm getting a bit confused here about what the "USB HDD's root Partition on the BW" is, and why it might be NTFS. How many partitions/volumes does the USB HDD have? I though only one, and that it was showing as FAT32 on the PC.

What does Windows Disk Management (Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Computer Management>Disk Management) say its format is?

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 13:30

Sorry Peter you will have to excuse me again I am not explaining my self well. I might be wrong but it looked to me that there was a small amount of disk space left on the USB HDD that I could not access I was assuming that was called the "root". I see in Disk Management it is the Primary partition
Disk Management tells me it is FAT32 and I have 930.67 GB of free space.

Please allow me to go over the sequence of events as exactly as I can

I have already listed that I have formated the USB HDD using a format tool on my P.C, and I have also said that the BW does not recognise the USB HDD when attempting to format through the BW.
When I attempt to copy recordings to my USB HDD this is what happens,
I highlight the file, then press the popup menu and select "copy to" (the file I an trying to move is 2.5GB) then I select USB. Another window appears where "Device 1" is shown if I select this it tells me there is "not enough empty space", if I press O.K on the remote while "Device 1" is highlighted I am given another option of "UNIT0_P1" , upon selecting this option I am told "designated file read only"
I hope I am explaining my self well, I appreciate the help I just want to get the files onto my PC

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 13:59

So did you do my test to see whether the Wiz is reading the HDD for sure?
You might want to remove all partitions with the disk management in windows, and then create a new partition (unformatted) and then format with FAT32FORMAT.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 14:01

tonymy01 wrote:...
You might want to remove all partitions with the disk management in windows, and then create a new partition (unformatted) and then format with FAT32FORMAT.

That sounds like the way to go.

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 14:06

I will try that in a minute
a funny thing just happened I tried to copy a smaller file (0.6 GB) and it moved successfully and it played back directly from the USB HDD no probs, but I tried to do it again and it told me the file name already exists so I changed the name and attempted to copy again, this time with the usual messages.
Gremlins?

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 14:12

flyfisho wrote:I will try that in a minute
a funny thing just happened I tried to copy a smaller file (0.6 GB) and it moved successfully and it played back directly from the USB HDD no probs, but I tried to do it again and it told me the file name already exists so I changed the name and attempted to copy again, this time with the usual messages.
Gremlins?

I suspect that the only part of the HDD that the Beyonwiz is seeing is the small FAT32 partition, and that it's between 0.6 and 1.2GB in size, so the first copy succeeded, and the second one failed because there wasn't enough space left.

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 14:14

how is that possible when windows disk managment tells me I have 930GB free space?

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 14:27

flyfisho wrote:how is that possible when windows disk managment tells me I have 930GB free space?

I think that tha means 930GB not part of any volume. If that's the case, delete the existing small partition (the FAT32 one), and create a new single partition covering the entire disk. Then use FAT32format to format the new partition.

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 14:31

Thanks very much for that I am in the process of that now, I will report back on that when I am done

flyfisho · Post by **flyfisho** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:05

Thankyou very much that worked my wife will be happy I've stopped swearing a the HDD

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:16

flyfisho wrote:Thankyou very much that worked my wife will be happy I've stopped swearing a the HDD