DP-P2, AAC Audio and Upcoming New Nine HD?

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 14:04

Hello All,

Been a while since I've delved into all things DP-P2 so please be gentle with me ... have tried reading the various FAQ's and delved through quite a few messages here but don't seem to be quite getting the answer I want.

Have a DP-P2 running 1.05.350 firmware. Pretty sure I stayed on 1.05.xx series because of serial number, bit hard to get the box out of the TV cabinet to look at the serial number again but will do that in due course. HDMI output from DP-P2 to a Sony Bravia LCD TV about 5 years old.

Noted in the press that Nine is going to make their main channel HD as from 26th November, and read somewhere else that broadcast will be MPEG-4 presumably withh AAC audio rather than MPEG-2. Also read that Seven's Racing Channel on channel 78 is already going out in MPEG-4 and that was a way to test out set top boxes, TV's, PVR's etc.

So I duly did a rescan to pick up Channel 78 and whilst its obviously VERY low bit rate, pictures appear to work OK, but NO audio.

Played with a few Audio Settings on DP-P2 (which I don't think I'd ever played with before) but still no joy at getting any sound on Channel 78. Was previously just set on 2-Channel Output, but couldn't find any combination of Passthrough/AAC Decode etc etc that seemed to make any difference and magically make the audio come back. I may be missing something simple.

Noticed in various firmware threads references to the fact that the 1.07.xx series plays MPEG-4 broadcasts "properly", mainly to do with the test 3D broadcasts that happened (remember that passing phase?), not really any references to missing audio however ...

Also noted that if I am interpreting correctly, I could actually try the 1.07.350 firmware in my machine, since it happily runs a later version 1.05.xx firmware. Is that correct? Don't want to try that without absolute confirmation. And might it fix the missing AAC audio issue? And hopefully not "brick" my machine on the way!

Any help and/or clarification MUCH appreciated!

Was looking forward to the Cricket in HD via Beyonwiz DP-P2 ... I guess at worst it may provide the excuse to finally buy a T4.

StephenH

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 15:15

stephenh wrote:...
Was looking forward to the Cricket in HD via Beyonwiz DP-P2 ... I guess at worst it may provide the excuse to finally buy a T4.
...

Vision on Nine, audio on ABC local radio

That used to be my preferred method of watching cricket in analog TV days, but the digital encoding delay means that the radio commentary tells you how the ball was dispatched before the vision shows it even leaving the bowler's hands. I wish I could insert an 1-2sec delay into analog radio.

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 16:19

prl wrote:That used to be my preferred method of watching cricket in analog TV days, but the digital encoding delay means that the radio commentary tells you how the ball was dispatched before the vision shows it even leaving the bowler's hands. I wish I could insert an 1-2sec delay into analog radio.

Likewise! And the DAB+ Radio Version doesn't sync up either from memory ... so for all our "advances" we are still not at Nirvana!

StephenH

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 16:50

Yes, DAB will insert a decoding delay, but I imagine it would still be shorter than the encoding delay for MPEG video, and especially for MPEG4 video.

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 17:01

prl wrote:Yes, DAB will insert a decoding delay, but I imagine it would still be shorter than the encoding delay for MPEG video, and especially for MPEG4 video.

Pretty sure that's the case, not a long enough delay to be useful ... still needs to be 2-3 seconds longer from memory.
And couldn't get Timeshift to delay the vision under about 5 seconds I think? So gave up.

Any theories on the MPEG4/ No AAC sound?

StephenH

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 17:26

Hi StephenH,

I would love some pointers to the references you are using for what changes are coming. The ads on Channel 9 talk about simulcast in HD and not conversion to HD.

That aside I don't think you will be happy with what I believe is going on. The Classic Beyonwiz models have an early version of the MPEG4/AAC codec. This earlier version of the codec does not appear to support HE-AAC audio. This is the version of AAC that I believe the TV stations are going to be using. That means that the Classic Beyonwiz models will be unable to get sound on any of these new MPEG4 channels.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 17:54

stephenh wrote:... Any theories on the MPEG4/ No AAC sound? ...

Only that you may be right about the 01.05.xxx firmware not being able to decode the AAC sound. I have an older P2, too, running 01.05.350, and it doesn't decode racing.com audio either.

IIRC, what the release notes for the P2 say about the firmware versions to use is incomplete, and that either older P2s can run the 01.07 firmware, too, or that newer ones can also run the 01.05 firmware, but I can't remember which way round it is, or find where it was discussed. I don't want to end up bricking my unit trying.

You can find your P2's version number and current firmware version in SETUP>System>Firmware>Firmware Information.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:07

prl wrote:IIRC, what the release notes for the P2 say about the firmware versions to use is incomplete, and that either older P2s can run the 01.07 firmware, too, or that newer ones can also run the 01.05 firmware, but I can't remember which way round it is, or find where it was discussed. I don't want to end up bricking my unit trying.

I thought it was -
older models could use either 1.05.xxx or 1.07.xxx
newer models must use 1.07.xxx

The 01.05.xxx firmware does not correctly display MPEG4 broadcasts such as those used in the 3D trials.
The 01.07.xxx firmware does not have the ability to play ISO image files. Individual VOB files can be played.

Some discussion here -
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6200
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8927
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9343

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:12

IanSav wrote: Hi StephenH,I would love some pointers to the references you are using for what changes are coming.

Couple of links ... not confirmed of course, but would make sense given the bandwidth contraints.

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/comp ... i4blu.html

http://www.mediaweek.com.au/nine-is-bro ... -everyone/

IanSav wrote: The Classic Beyonwiz models have an early version of the MPEG4/AAC codec. This earlier version of the codec does not appear to support HE-AAC audio. This is the version of AAC that I believe the TV stations are going to be using. That means that the Classic Beyonwiz models will be unable to get sound on any of these new MPEG4 channels.

I had resigned myself to that pretty much ... but thought it was worth checking/throwing it out there to this august group...

I won't be that upset ... I've had a good run out of the DP-P2, and realistically I've been considering a barebones T4 anyway, just couldn't justify it.
Maybe I have just found the smoking gun!

StephenH

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 22:22

Grumpy_Geoff wrote:
prl wrote:IIRC, what the release notes for the P2 say about the firmware versions to use is incomplete, and that either older P2s can run the 01.07 firmware, too, or that newer ones can also run the 01.05 firmware, but I can't remember which way round it is, or find where it was discussed. I don't want to end up bricking my unit trying.
I thought it was -
older models could use either 1.05.xxx or 1.07.xxx
newer models must use 1.07.xxx
...

That's the way round I suspected it would be. Thanks for the links.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 23:38

Hi StephenH,

Thank you for the links. They were an interesting read.

Given a lot of the older content on GEM I don't see it as becoming SD much of a loss. The move of 9HD to 1920x1080 is a welcome move. The use of MPEG4 will cause issues for some viewers but given the quality improvements it *could* achieve I hope this is something we will all appreciate. As the end of the month approaches we will all find out what we will be getting.

Regards,
Ian.

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 05:22

IanSav wrote: The move of 9HD to 1920x1080 is a welcome move. The use of MPEG4 will cause issues for some viewers but given the quality improvements it *could* achieve I hope this is something we will all appreciate. As the end of the month approaches we will all find out what we will be getting.

It is indeed welcome if it brings better picture quality and the end of using HD only for secondary channels, most ridiculous example being the ABC which uses its 720p HD channel for ABC News 24 where just about all of the source material is SD and a lot of that very poor quality. Meanwhile a lot of their high quality programs on main channel go out in a fairly low bit rate SD version. Talk about screwed up priorities! HD channels in this country have long been "undercooked" due to using MPEG2 and and having to cram all the channels into their 23 Mb/sec ceiling under their 7 MHz spectrum allocation. MPEG4 offers around the same subjective picture quality for half the bit rate supposedly, or much better picture quality for the same bit rate. Be interesting to see how the various networks choose to utilise this if indeed Nine is about to let the dog off the leash. It's probably achievable to do 2 X HD plus 2 X SD channels at reasonable quality if you made them all MPEG 4 for example.

Upon Googling a bit more it would appear that AAC-HE v2 audio is part of the DVB spec if doing MPEG4 video, although it's a bit unclear to me (on a quick browse) if this is compulsory or if "plain" AAC is still also allowable. If indeed Seven's Racing Channel 78 is using AAC-HE V2 audio, and the new Nine HD does as well, and the chipset used in the DP-P2 etc doesn't support it, then that may well be the end of the line. Nine are going to also transmit their main channel in SD MPEG2 to cover their bases a bit, but I suspect they will eventually turn that off as well a few years down the track. I'd be surprised if Seven and Ten didn't follow Nine's lead and make their main channels HD within a few months to a year, and I know ABC is planning to (finally!) make main channel HD around mid to late 2016. No idea on SBS but they are adding their Food channel. So any of the other 4, once Nine breaks the ice, may be very tempted for quality and engineering reasons to also go MPEG4 for some or all of their channels, and presumably with AAC-HE v2 audio.

Can anyone with a later serial DP-P2 running 1.07.350 firmware please confirm they also get no audio on Seven Racing Channel 78 please? That would be the final missing piece of the puzzle for now.

And then we wait until November 26 to see if the "new" Nine HD similarly lacks sound ... which I now think is highly likely.

StephenH

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 08:21

Hmm. A move to AAC audio would mean goodbye to multichannel audio for 99% of Tx owners as well. I'd have to step up my schedule to upgrade to an AAC compatible receiver unless the Tx is improved such that it will convert AAC to multichannel PCM over HDMI.

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 09:55

MrQuade wrote:Hmm. A move to AAC audio would mean goodbye to multichannel audio for 99% of Tx owners as well. I'd have to step up my schedule to upgrade to an AAC compatible receiver unless the Tx is improved such that it will convert AAC to multichannel PCM over HDMI.

Good point MrQuade ... having never delved into multi-channel audio and always having been content with down-mixed/transcoded/switched stereo outputs of my devices to my TV and thence onto my (non-AV) receiver its an area I hadn't even thought about.

Maybe a T4 Mark II coming soon with that and H265/HEVC decoding as well?

Of course there will always be soemthing better just after you bought your latest toy ... that si just a given!

StephenH

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:52

MrQuade wrote:Hmm. A move to AAC audio would mean goodbye to multichannel audio for 99% of Tx owners as well. I'd have to step up my schedule to upgrade to an AAC compatible receiver unless the Tx is improved such that it will convert AAC to multichannel PCM over HDMI.

I haven't seen multi-channel audio in the ACT for years, IIRC not since the demise of Nine HD. I'd be happy enough to see multichannel anything!

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:34

Hi StephenH,

RACING.COM is definitely using HE-AAC v2...

: RACING.COM stream analysis...

Regards,
Ian.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 14:05

Sad to report that much of "Dolby surround" purporting to be broadcast is from material that is at best stereo that's been simulated as 5.1

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 14:13

netmask wrote:Sad to report that much of "Dolby surround" purporting to be broadcast is from material that is at best stereo that's been simulated as 5.1

No doubt, but at least they have in place the capability for discrete 5.1 channel broadcast of suitable material. Do you have any service in your area broadcasting multi-channel audio?

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 15:07

Yes but I turn it back to stereo

as the fake device they use, especially on GEM introduces distortions on voices. By contrast multichannel Netflix via chromecast is good.

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 15:41

netmask wrote:Yes but I turn it back to stereo as the fake device they use, especially on GEM introduces distortions on voices. By contrast multichannel Netflix via chromecast is good.

Is there a particular time of day that GEM broadcasts multichannel audio in your area? GEM Canberra is currently broadcasting AC3 2/0.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 15:51

In Perth, my AV receiver shows that it is receiving 5.1 audio on most evenings on the HD channels. It is usually the movie and high-end TV series content that comes in 5.1 I have found. I watch practically no sport, broadcast news or reality programming, so can't comment on that.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 16:38

BTW, I have no problem with sound on racing.com on my DP-Lite i running 01.07.350.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 16:50

raymondjpg wrote:
netmask wrote:Yes but I turn it back to stereo as the fake device they use, especially on GEM introduces distortions on voices. By contrast multichannel Netflix via chromecast is good.
Is there a particular time of day that GEM broadcasts multichannel audio in your area? GEM Canberra is currently broadcasting AC3 2/0.

As far as I know 24/7 according to my Yammy amp - modern movies are OK but a lot of reruns of TV series are badly distorted if you leave it on 5.1 I have fairly high end Tannoy studio monitors, if I switch over to the Aurotone Near Field speakers it sounds acceptable but then everything does on those speakers

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 17:16

Hi Prl,

prl wrote:BTW, I have no problem with sound on racing.com on my DP-Lite i running 01.07.350.

That is good news for those who have boxes that can run 01.07.350. As I only have DP-S1 models that rules them out.

Regards,
Ian.

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 17:53

IanSav wrote: RACING.COM is definitely using HE-AAC v2...

Thanks for that confirmation Ian.

StephenH

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 18:00

IanSav wrote:Hi Prl,
prl wrote:BTW, I have no problem with sound on racing.com on my DP-Lite i running 01.07.350.
That is good news for those who have boxes that can run 01.07.350. As I only have DP-S1 models that rules them out.

Regards,
Ian.

I've also confirmed that my Mother's DP-P2 which came with 1.07.xxx series firmware and that I upgraded to 1.07.350 also has no problem with sound.

Reading a bit more back catalogue here though ... it may be to do with the rev of the Sigma EM8623 chip I think, not just whether the box is capable of running 1.07.xxx firmware? It may be that Rev B chips don't do AAC-HE v2 and that Rev C chips DO?

So even though my old DP-P2 with 1.05.350 may be capable of taking 1.07.350, that may still not fix the audio as it has the older Rev B chip ... or that's my working theory anyway? Or did I get myself confused again?

StephenH

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 20:45

netmask wrote:
raymondjpg wrote:As far as I know 24/7 according to my Yammy amp - modern movies are OK but a lot of reruns of TV series are badly distorted if you leave it on 5.1 I have fairly high end Tannoy studio monitors, if I switch over to the Aurotone Near Field speakers it sounds acceptable but then everything does on those speakers

It looks as if Canberra is not enjoying multi-channel audio on HD channels. I just checked ONE and GEM, and both are still broadcasting AC3 2/0. I'm pleased to see that other areas are getting it. Hopefully not too much longer for us.

celicasx · Post by **celicasx** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 22:43

DP-P1 with 1.05.350 no luck with Ch78 audio.

buzzdude · Post by **buzzdude** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 13:46

Hi

I have the same problem, no sound from Channel 78. I have DP-P2 running 01.05.350. Checked the beyonwiz site and downloaded the DP-P2 01.07.351 – Jun 2012, which is named "BETA_DPP2_Firmware_01Jun2012_ver_0107351".

The upgrade took 5 minutes and I now have sound on 78, with the audio ACC set to decode in the setup menu. i checked all other channels and all have sound. Not sure what else the version fixed/broke

Thought I would share.

Buz

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 15:46

buzzdude wrote: I now have sound on 78, with the audio ACC set to decode in the setup menu. i checked all other channels and all have sound. Not sure what else the version fixed/broke

Thanks for that Buz! You beat me to that experiment by an hour or so, as I've been away and came back this arvo to try the same thing, ie upgrading my 1.05.350 DP-P2 to 1.07.350/351. Did anyone ever figure out what 351 "fixed" or improved over 350?

But yes, I can confirm I now also have sound on Seven Racing Channel 78!
Hopefully this bodes well for the "new" Nine HD starting on November 26 ...
I've spot-checked the other channels and they still have sound.
In my case i didn't need to change any Audio settings, mine are still set on Audio Format = 2 Channel, which disables/disappears all those other settings I don't need for my particular non-mulitchannel / non-AV Receiver setup.

So as to 1.05.350 versus 1.07.350/351, release notes here ...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6220

But in essence for me it boils down to:-

* The 01.05.350 firmware does not correctly display MPEG4 broadcasts such as those used in the 3D trials. Recordings will be performed correctly.
* The 01.07.350 firmware does not have the ability to play ISO image files. Individual VOB files can be played.

Maybe those notes should now be modified to also say also that 1.05.350 doesn't decode AAC-HE v2 Audio but 1.07.350/351 does?

So this is prelimary good news of sorts ... although if it holds for the "new" Nine HD come November 26 I probably won't be able to justify buying a T4 just yet ... so not all upside!

UPDATE - Have now confirmed that 1.07.350 does also decode/output the Seven Racing Channel 78 Audio on my machine as well as 1.07.351.
I've noticed I think that 1.07.351 disables the manual "Force File Reindex" command, which is triggered in .350 by hitting the Audio button whilst in the recorded file list. I usually do this occasionally and just by chance noticed it didn't seem to work in .351 when I went to do it. Can someone else confirm that File Reindex doesn't work in 1.07.351? I wanted to confirm that the Channel 78 Audio worked on 1.07.350 anyway so I installed that and File Reindex then worked again. I know there were issues and warnings (from PeterU?) with file management/repair on larger hard drives at one point. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that the latest firmware downloadable for the DP-P2-2TB is listed as 1.07.350, whereas the latest firmware indicated for "ordinary" (smaller HD) DP-P2's is listed as the newer 1.07.351 or is this just an error/coincidence/completely me off on the wrong track? As my DP-P2 has a (self-installed) 2TB drive in it, I've left it flashed with 1.07.350 after my testing for now just in case?

StephenH

Postscript - Had a Slightly Nervous Moment or two as the firmware upgrade to 1.07.351 (via USB Stick front port) actually "hung" as it started the Firmware Verify ... which i think I've seen before, but as I haven't done a Beyonwiz firmware upgrade for a few years couldn't quite remember how it rolled. Eventually when I realised it wasn't doing anything I pulled the power plug and held my breath as I plugged it back in and hoped it would boot and hadn't bricked itself, which it hadn't. Phew! Didn't need to rediscover how to do a firmware recovery!

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 19:22

stephenh wrote:I've noticed I think that 1.07.351 disables the manual "Force File Reindex" command, which is triggered in .350 by hitting the Audio button whilst in the recorded file list. I usually do this occasionally and just by chance noticed it didn't seem to work in .351 when I went to do it. Can someone else confirm tat File Reindex doesn't work . 1.07.351?

Yes, with either flavour of .351 firmware you can only perform the reindex by doing a HDD check via the SETUP menu (SETUP/System/HDD/Check HDD - the reindex is performed at the end of the check)

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 21:03

Grumpy_Geoff wrote: Yes, with either flavour of .351 firmware you can only perform the reindex by doing a HDD check via the SETUP menu (SETUP/System/HDD/Check HDD - the reindex is performed at the end of the check)

Thanks for explaining/confirming that Geoff.
Wonder why they did that?

Other than the above anyone know anything else different from .350 to .351?
It seems there was never really any Release Notes for 1.07.351 ...

StephenH

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 21:40

stephenh wrote:...
It seems there was never really any Release Notes for 1.07.351 ...

That's because the .351 firmware was not tested by the Beta Testers - it was released by Beyonwiz directly 'into the wild'

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 23:30

Grumpy_Geoff wrote: That's because the .351 firmware was not tested by the Beta Testers - it was released by Beyonwiz directly 'into the wild'

Thanks for that explanation/clarification Geoff.

StephenH

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 08:19

Can anyone please point me to a reference that clearly articulates which TV services and channels around Australia are *currently* broadcasting multi-channel audio?

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:38

Hi Raymondjpg,

raymondjpg wrote:Can anyone please point me to a reference that clearly articulates which TV services and channels around Australia are *currently* broadcasting multi-channel audio?

I do not believe that such a reference exists. Further, TV stations can change the mode of output from program to program, ad to ad.

Regards,
Ian.

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:11

IanSav wrote:I do not believe that such a reference exists. Further, TV stations can change the mode of output from program to program, ad to ad.

I had my hopes. Possibly something within ACMA, although I'd rate chances of identifying it and then winkling it out of that Department pretty low.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:31

What you could do is make a list of the programs, other than live events, that you would like to see/hear in surround and then check on IMDb and Amazon.

As I have mentioned before I've seen the 5.1 indicator come on, when in automatic mode - on both my Yamaha and Sony amps on material that was originally recorded MONO! including a rerun of a documentary that I had done both the location sound and final sound mix years ago before stereo was even added to the analog TV standard. I suspect you can only expect blockbuster movies and some sports coverage to have multichannel sound. Yes I am cynical and jaundice on this subject...

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:37

Hi Netmask,

Unfortunately some amps indicate a Dolby Digital or AC-3 soundtrack but do not differentiate the number of separate audio channels actually available.

Just because a show was produced with a 5.1 soundtrack does not mean that it will be broadcast that way in Australia.

Have a listen to an original Dr Who in HD with 5.1 sound and you will discover a whole new experience!

Regards,
Ian.

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 13:24

netmask wrote:Yes I am cynical and jaundice on this subject...

I joined that club some time ago.

IanSav wrote:Unfortunately some amps indicate a Dolby Digital or AC-3 soundtrack but do not differentiate the number of separate audio channels actually available.

I am suspicious of any reports of surround sound currently being broadcast in Aus without evidence. The last I saw in the ACT was a good five years or so ago, before Nine HD was subsumed by its bubblegum channels. I also recall possibly surround sound with some experimental 3D channels around the time of the Olympic Games. There is also a report somewhere else on this forum that the F1 broadcasts on ONE HD are multi-channel sound, but I have just checked my recordings of the Mexican Grand Prix (ONE HD ACT) and it is persistently and infuriatingly (though not surprisingly) stuck at 2/0 AC3,

Does someone have a Mediainfo analysis of a recording of a recent Aus TV broadcast in surround sound?

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 16:16

IanSav wrote: Unfortunately some amps indicate a Dolby Digital or AC-3 soundtrack but do not differentiate the number of separate audio channels actually available.

My amp reports the number of channels on the front panel, and I definitely see it switch from a 2 front speaker configuration to a 5.1 configuration when I play the appropriate media files. (2ch AC3 shows 2 speakers, and full 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 show the correct number of speakers)

The FTA HD channels frequently indicate on the amp as being 5.1 when output from the T series PVRs. So unless the station is broadcasting stereo content in a stream configured as 5.1, or the T4 is outputting something equally weird, then I am confident that my amp is showing true 5.1.

I'll find something to record tonight and provide a mediainfo report.

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 17:04

MrQuade wrote:
IanSav wrote:I'll find something to record tonight and provide a mediainfo report.

Thanks

DaveJ · Post by **DaveJ** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 17:26

MrQuade wrote:
IanSav wrote:
The FTA HD channels frequently indicate on the amp as being 5.1 when output from the T series PVRs. So unless the station is broadcasting stereo content in a stream configured as 5.1, or the T4 is outputting something equally weird, then I am confident that my amp is showing true 5.1.

I'll find something to record tonight and provide a mediainfo report.

In Perth too.

My Yammie amp also displays how many audio channels are in the media stream being played. Beware, though, of stations like ten (One HD) that have all 5.1 audio channels "active" but who broadcast nothing within the 3.1 "extra" channels. Mostly, ONE is just stereo with the extra "surround" audio streams empty of all sound data.

Seven don't even try multi channel sound here. They have not done so for years.
It's also been a very long time since I've seen Nine broadcast true 5.1 sound.

Sad, really. I'd much rather give up all those "extra" channels (the home shopping, racing and so on) and use that bandwidth for full, proper sound on their "main" channels - preferably with high def video.

I mean, really, Star Wars (*) in SD and stereo? For crying out loud....

* Substitute any modern-ish decent film/show here, makes no difference.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 19:52

raymondjpg wrote:
MrQuade wrote:
IanSav wrote:I'll find something to record tonight and provide a mediainfo report.
Thanks

For what it is worth, I ran MediaInfo over an old recording I had of "Trainspotting" from One.

Code: Select all

General
ID                                       : 1543 (0x607)
Complete name                            : \\beyonwizt3\Harddisk\movie\20150419 2125 - ONE - Movie_ Trainspotting.ts
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 5.56 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 15mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 5 863 Kbps

Video
ID                                       : 514 (0x202)
Menu ID                                  : 1665 (0x681)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Codec ID                                 : 2
Duration                                 : 2h 15mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 5 121 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 80.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 440 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Active Format Description                : Full frame 16:9 image
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.132
Stream size                              : 4.86 GiB (87%)

Audio
ID                                       : 672 (0x2A0)
Menu ID                                  : 1665 (0x681)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 6
Duration                                 : 2h 15mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -1s 56ms
Stream size                              : 435 MiB (8%)
Language                                 : English

Text
ID                                       : 577 (0x241)-801
Menu ID                                  : 1665 (0x681)
Format                                   : Teletext Subtitle
Language                                 : English

Menu
ID                                       : 257 (0x101)
Menu ID                                  : 1665 (0x681)
List                                     : 514 (0x202) (MPEG Video) / 672 (0x2A0) (AC-3, English) / 577 (0x241) () / 8150 (0x1FD6) () / 1400 (0x578) () / 1410 (0x582) () / 1420 (0x58C) ()
Language                                 :  / English

Audio shows as 6 channels there, but not sure if those other channels actually had any audio in them (as-per Davej's comments).

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 21:39

Hi MrQuade,

Very sad isn't it. Send out a 5.1 signal with 5.1 bandwidth yet not provide real 5.1 data.

Regards,
Ian.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 00:23

MrQuade wrote:Audio shows as 6 channels there, but not sure if those other channels actually had any audio in them (as-per Davej's comments).

Finally had a chance to check the media file once the TV was no longer in use.

I played back a scene with the disgusting toilet and flies buzzing around, and sure enough, the rear speakers were outputting sound.

This recording at least had a genuine 5.1 soundtrack.

raymondjpg · Post by **raymondjpg** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 06:03

MrQuade wrote:This recording at least had a genuine 5.1 soundtrack.

Thanks for the test. I'll try recording some "high profile" movies from ONE HD and see if I can detect 5.1 ch sound here.

fangios · Post by **fangios** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 20:49

So where does this leave my P1, which looks as though it can only run the 01.05.350 firmware?

Not concerned about the racing channel, but certainly will need the new 9HD to work correctly. Might just have to wait and see....

stephenh · Post by **stephenh** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 21:32

fangios wrote:So where does this leave my P1, which looks as though it can only run the 01.05.350 firmware?

Not concerned about the racing channel, but certainly will need the new 9HD to work correctly. Might just have to wait and see....

To summarise, since I'm the OP of this thread, based on my fiddling with my P2, and Racing Channel 78 which went from no sound on 1.05.350 to getting sound back on 1.07.350/351, I'd say if indeed your P1 can't take 1.07.xx firmware then you may well get pictures but no sound when the "new" Nine HD commences on November 26. But it's all a bit of a guess at this stage, remains to be seen when we do our rescans and testing a fortnight from tomorrow. And there may well be more hurdles to come as Seven, Ten, SBS and ABC go down their own similar but slightly different paths over the next couple of years.

Either way, I've had great pleasure and value out of my DP-P2, and I won't be grumbling too much if the time has come to recycle it and think about a T2 or T4.

Stephen

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