S1 clock wrong when in standby... P2 runs OK

[Greg Hudson]

Having read the problems other people have had with their 'system' clocks not keeping time when in standby mode, I decided to run a couple of tests...

Firstly the S1, which is about 2 years old, and has had this problem since day one...
NOTE: Firmware upgraded late 2009.

Current real time: 11:47AM. S1 in standby: 7:23PM on front panel (been in standby since about 2am).

Powered up, went to setup and changed timer to NETWORK (instead of auto) after reading in another thread that network time is polled 24/7.
Powered off, front panel now shows correct time.
13 minutes later (12 noon), I went back to check the clock... it showed 11:50AM
It only managed to keep time for just THREE MINUTES !!!

Now I also have a brand new DP-P2 (xmas pressie to myself wife doesn't know about yet)... Tried the exact same sequence as above:
Real time: 12:24pm P2 time on front: 10:32am (been in standby all night).
Reset time to AUTO this time.
One hour later, time on P2 is correct at 1:24pm

Some people claim the problem is a capacitor on the S1... If so, I'm handy with a soldering iron & could replace it myself (if I knew which one. Any ideas anyone ?

Or... maybe I'll just rip it apart & replace ALL the capacitors on the front panel circuit (if viable)...

Thanks, Greg.

[prl]

Having read the problems other people have had with their 'system' clocks not keeping time when in standby mode, I decided to run a couple of tests...

Firstly the S1, which is about 2 years old, and has had this problem since day one...
NOTE: Firmware upgraded late 2009.

Current real time: 11:47AM. S1 in standby: 7:23PM on front panel (been in standby since about 2am).

Powered up, went to setup and changed timer to NETWORK (instead of auto) after reading in another thread that network time is polled 24/7.
Powered off, front panel now shows correct time.
13 minutes later (12 noon), I went back to check the clock... it showed 11:50AM
It only managed to keep time for just THREE MINUTES !!!
...
Some people claim the problem is a capacitor on the S1... If so, I'm handy with a soldering iron & could replace it myself (if I knew which one. Any ideas anyone ?

Or... maybe I'll just rip it apart & replace ALL the capacitors on the front panel circuit (if viable)...

Thanks, Greg.

This sounds like a problem with the front panel micro-controller and/or its clock. The problem won't be affected by changing the Beyonwiz's time setting (Manual/Network/Auto), because that's only used for the time when it's not in standby.

There are two capacitor problems that you could be referring to. The first is that the capacitors in the S1 power supply can degrade and cause the power supply to go out of specification. That often causes HDD problems. It could cause problems with the front panel display, but I don't recall hearing about it doing so. The other capacitor problem is that the capacitor used to keep the front panel clock running during a mains power failure (or the Beyonwiz being switched off) may not keep the clock running over an extended power outage. There are instructions on the forum about upgrading the capacitor to a supercap, which gives a much longer time for the clock to keep running during a power failure. However, the symptom for this problem is that the clock resets, not that it runs slow.

Changing the firmware won't fix the problem, either, because the front panel microcode can't be changed.

You're probably best off talking to Beyonwiz Support. The front panel PC board may need to be changed.

As an aside, the Network option for the time on the Beyonwiz doesn't synchronise the clock to network time 24/7. It only updates the clock when the Beyonwiz is running, not in standby (the main processor isn't powered up in standby), and it only synchronises at boot time, then once each 24 hours, or when the NTP server is changed in the setup.

Network time updates are usually better than Auto time because most NTP server managers appear to be able to maintain their time service better than the TV networks do.

[warkus]

Hiya,

Peter is right, whilst there are 2 capacitor issues with the S1, neither of them are responsible for the issue you have.

The problem is with the Front Panel PCB, and I must admit I have not had to repair one yet, I suspect it is a fairly common fault as it occurs on almost every model, and the fix is usually DPG replacing the front panel PCB.

I had a friend who purchased a wiz on my recommendation from the GG, he had this issue, and as the unit was only 3 months old, I told him to take it back to GG and get them to send to DPG for repair rather than me take a look and void his warranty.

The repair note came back from DPG as - Replaced Front Panel PCB - Logic Fault.

He had a P1, exact same issue as you describe, others with P2's have had this issue on this forum.

I am most happy to take a look at it for you if you like, to try and see if I can correct the fault, and then if a simple fix I can post it on the forum to assist others as it does seem to be a fairlycomon fault really.

If you would like me to take a look, please PM me.

Mark

[Greg Hudson]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

Based on your info, it is most likely the front PCB, so I'll begin by examining what I can by eye / magnifying glass. After that, disassembly / desolder capacitor(s).

I'm unsure how to TEST a cap though... Resistance, no prob, but capacitance ?
Can I assume if it is faulty it will be either aq dead short or open circuit ?
DUH - I'll just look it up on the Net !

Anyone have a circuit diagram of the front panel PCB - listing the farad values of the caps please ?

Thanks, Greg.

[prl]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

Based on your info, it is most likely the front PCB, so I'll begin by examining what I can by eye / magnifying glass. After that, disassembly / desolder capacitor(s).

I'm unsure how to TEST a cap though... Resistance, no prob, but capacitance ?
Can I assume if it is faulty it will be either aq dead short or open circuit ?
DUH - I'll just look it up on the Net !

Anyone have a circuit diagram of the front panel PCB - listing the farad values of the caps please ?

Thanks, Greg.

I doubt that replacing the capacitors will fix the problem, though it is possible.

To properly test capacitors you need a capacitance meter. Some digital multimeters have capacitance measurement capability. A normal multimeter (especially an old-fashioned analog one) can be used as a very quick go/no-go test for some kinds of capacitor problems. You generally need to remove the capacitor from the PCB to test it. Make sure the capacitors are discharged before you start removing them. Especially on the power supply board - some of them are charged to 300V or more.

Set the multimeter to the highest resistance scale.

• If the capacitance is large (1uF or more), discharge it (short-circuit it with one probe of the multimeter). Then measure the "resistance" of the capacitor. Remember for polarised capacitors like electrolytics that the +ve lead of the multimeter is often connected to -ve battery when measuring resistance. If the needle (for an analog meter) kicks up to a low resistance and then quickly at first, and progressively more slowly settles towards infinite resistance, the capacitor is, well, working like a capacitor. A large-valued capacitor should give a larger "kick" and a slower settling time than a smaller one. If you compare a tset capacitor with a known-good one of the same capacitance, they should behave the same as each other in this test. Remember to discharge the capacitor each time you test. This test is much easier to do with an analog meter than with a digital meter, because of the typically slow settling time of a digital meter, and that the "kick" and slowing settling is much easier to see on an analog meter.
• For any capacitor, no matter what value, if the resistance doesn't settle towards infinity, there's a problem, normally some kind of perforation in the dielectric. It needs to be replaced

[DaveR]

Some people claim the problem is a capacitor on the S1... If so, I'm handy with a soldering iron & could replace it myself (if I knew which one. Any ideas anyone ?

It's a faulty crystal, not capacitor. The 2 symptoms are, in standby,
1. The time does not increment past the next hour.
2. At the 'hour' the time goes back to the time when you switched it to standby.
i.e. Switch to standby at 10:32. Then approx 1/2 hour later instead of going 10:58, 10:59, 11:00, 11:01 it goes 10:58, 10:59, 10:32, 10:33 etc.

[Greg Hudson]

Some people claim the problem is a capacitor on the S1... If so, I'm handy with a soldering iron & could replace it myself (if I knew which one. Any ideas anyone ?

It's a faulty crystal, not capacitor. The 2 symptoms are, in standby,
1. The time does not increment past the next hour.
2. At the 'hour' the time goes back to the time when you switched it to standby.
i.e. Switch to standby at 10:32. Then approx 1/2 hour later instead of going 10:58, 10:59, 11:00, 11:01 it goes 10:58, 10:59, 10:32, 10:33 etc.

G'Day Dave & thanks for the clarification.
Further to my issue (and the fact the S1 is now out of warranty), what options do I have?
Can I purchase a new crystal & install it myself?
or
Can I purchase a new front circuit board (or whichever one is causing the problem)?
or
Am I forced to send to someone for fixing (least preferred option).
and...
Due to the fact the problem existed since day one - could it be fixed for free, even though it is out of warranty ?
Also, is there a repair center in Melbourne ?

Thanks, Greg.

[prl]

...
Further to my issue (and the fact the S1 is now out of warranty), what options do I have?
Can I purchase a new crystal & install it myself?
or

Possibly. I don't recall anyone having reported doing this fix. If it is in fact the crystal and not the clock chip, than that should work.

Can I purchase a new front circuit board (or whichever one is causing the problem)?

You'd have to call Beyonwiz support and ask.

Am I forced to send to someone for fixing (least preferred option).
and...

Depends on what the answers to the previous two questions turn out to be.

Due to the fact the problem existed since day one - could it be fixed for free, even though it is out of warranty ?

No harm in asking. It could be argued to be covered by statutory warranty anyway. There's no explicit time limit to statutory warranty.

Also, is there a repair center in Melbourne ?
...

No.

[DaveR]

Can I purchase a new crystal & install it myself?

Yep.

It's just a regular 'low profile HC49S package' type crystal (54MHz I think). Probably $1 at your local DSE or Tandy etc. 10 minutes with a philips screwdriver and a soldering iron is all it takes.



DSE have packs of five 20MHz ones for 95 cents!
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.store ... View/Z9912

[Greg Hudson]

Can I purchase a new crystal & install it myself?

Yep.

It's just a regular 'low profile HC49S package' type crystal (54MHz I think). Probably $1 at your local DSE or Tandy etc. 10 minutes with a philips screwdriver and a soldering iron is all it takes.



DSE have packs of five 20MHz ones for 95 cents!
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.store ... View/Z9912

G'Day Dave, and thanks for the info - exactly what I was hoping for.
I don't suppose you happen to know the exact frequency of the crystal by any chance ?

If not, I'll just have to rip it apart & have a look before heading off to DSE.

Thanks again mate, much appreciated. This is truly what forums are for !!!

Regards, Greg.

[warkus]

I have several spare parts lying around here in my workshop for Wizes.

Just looked at a front panel board for a P1, the frequency is 14.7456mhz

Dont have a front panel board here spare for the S1 though, so am not 100% sure if it is the same or not, but its a fairly safe bet that it would be the same value for the S1 as well, it shares the same mainboard as the P1 pretty much.

Again, can't confirm it 100%, but it is most likely the same value as that on the P1.


Mark

[warkus]

Does not look like DSE sell that value looking online.

Trying to find you a source in Melborune.

RS have it...

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/sear ... &R=6720280

Showing out of stock at their online store, but that value only represents their online sales, you need to ring them on Monday to see if the local Melbourne branch has local stock or not.

Farnells would probably have it but they are in NSW.

Mark

[warkus]

RS Melbourne
668 Somerville Road,
Sunshine West, VIC, 3020
Monday - Friday
8.00am - 5.30pm
Saturday
9.00am - 12.00pm

Phone 1300 656 696

[sub3R]

Not sure if this helps.
I just looked at an old digital photo I took of the front PCB of our S1 & the crystal is marked on the top:
12.000SB
Our S1s are getting a bit old now so the board design may have changed since then.

Note: This is the wrong board therefore the wrong crystal ? see following posts.

[tonymy01]

Looking at a highish res photo I took of my S1 front panel, I see 14.7456 on it, same as Warkus reports. My S1 is 3 years old.
Says MOOZPF0000100 DP-S1 FRONT Rev.1.0 DATE:2006.09.11

[warkus]

Not sure if this helps.
I just looked at an old digital photo I took of the front PCB of our S1 & the crystal is marked on the top:
12.000SB
Our S1s are getting a bit old now so the board design may have changed since then.

Hi Sub3R

Sorry dude, but I think you looked at the wrong board...

The 12.000SB Crystal is on the small board next to the front panel PCB. The board you looked at controls the card reader slot and front USB.

This is not the crystal affected by this problem. In the P1 parts I have here, I found the board you looked at, and it too has a 12.000SB crystal on it.

The front panel PCB needs to be unscrewed from the plastic housing to be able to see the crystal properly.

I can't imagine that BW would use a different value crystal on different models for a comon purpose. It would not make sense for them to do that, and it is more logical for them to keep the circuit design the same even if the PCB design is slightly different from model to model.

Hope this helps.


Mark

[sub3R]

Yep you?re right Mark. I can just see the very edge of a larger PCB which looks like it would sit 90? to the base of the S1 case at the front. The board I looked at sits along the bottom of the plastic front parallel to the base of the S1 case with the components on the upper side.

Sorry I can?t help with any component details of the front panel as I don?t have a photo of that. Looks like Tony has anyway.

[tonymy01]

I had mine apart a while ago to improve the angle I can drive the Wiz at with the remote:

Here is a better full res photo from a different angle of the front panel where I deduced that I have the same crystal as Mark/Warkus.
http://tonyspage.abock.de/beyonwiz/S1frontpanel.jpg

(My Topfield 5K can be driven from another adjacent room with me sitting at the PC, about 8metres away and at a 30deg angle.. with 90deg being direct pointing from the front for reference, the Wiz IR receiver was shadowed quite a bit by the black plastic at any angle past about 60deg, you can see it in the high res photo just about where it looks thru, it is quite recessed in there behind that if you shine your torch on your S1 front pane you can see this. So I decided there was plenty of room to bring it forward past the shadowing section, and now with some careful pointing from the other room, I can drive the Wiz also. Shame it still hasn't quite the reach of the 5K, I guess with the curvature of the front see-thru panel, it still must reflect a bit of IR away that the flat front of the 5K doesn't do).

[sub3R]

Good photo Tony ? that makes it clear. The bottom board still attached to the plastic front in your higher-res image is the board I have a photo of, which is the wrong board to help Greg with. The board shown removed is the one I don?t have a photo of & the one I could just see the very edge of. Yes, I can see that this one has the crystal frequency shown on the crystal that Greg needs ? it's easy to read when you zoom in.

Not a bad mod with the IR receiver. I have a similar problem with one of our S1s depending how lazy I am when aiming the remote (if I shoot from the hip it usually doesn?t work due to the S1 sitting fairly high on top of a cupboard). I might project the IR receiver like you?ve done when I go to a larger clock cap to hold up the clock for a longer period.
Speaking of which, do you remember if there was much more room for a small super cap to be mounted in place of the original 470uF electro between the PCB & the plastic front? Looks like there would be plenty of room on the track side anyway.

Digital photos are handy aren?t they ?.. if one uses the correct one.

[robertg2]

Thanks for the tips guys. After 2+ years with this fault and never enough time (need 3 weeks turnaround with Beyonwiz) to send it back and get it fixed, I decided to do it myself. I have just been keeping my unit turned 'On' 24/7 for past 2 years and helping the local Coal fired power station in business.

Bought the crystal from Radio Spares online. Minimum qty of 10 at 70 cents each. Completed the repair carefully in 20 minutes as explained and Bingo ! Problem fixed.

Only note is dont fall for the 12.000 Mhz crystal you first see. As detailed in previous posts, its not that one. It is buried in the front panel that requires you to unscrew (about 5 or 6 screws). The Circuit board is a fine semi-surface mount with small solder pads. One should be careful with the size of soldering iron you use, as you could easily overheat the board and ruin the task of replacing this crystal if you go in like a bull.

[robertg2]

OK, so I spoke too soon.

Changing the crystal only partially fixed the problem. The clock has some resemblence of working, but then loses time as per the following thread. http://www.beyonwiz.com.au/phpbb2/viewt ... k&start=15

I am now very frustrated as it appears my only solution is to send it to Beyonwiz and get them to repair it. Even though I have had the fault since day 1, I havent been able to part with it during the warranty and now, its well outside warranty. So i am stuck with either fixing myself or paying Beyonwiz to fix it, in both $ and in time.

Does anyone have anyother ideas on how to fix this "Classic" Clock fault. It appears as though the fault extends beyond the Crystal. (I did get the correct replacement crystal and did replace the correct faulty one)

Any help would be appreciated.

[tonymy01]

Are your PSU voltages stable and correct?
That thread (at brief glance) didn't give much away, what are your symptoms pre & post fix?

[Half Round]

Just a thought.
Looking at the hi res picture there appears to be a <32khz> clock crystal next to the 14.7456mhz crystal. This is the small cylinder just above. Normally these have one or two capacitors to pull them to the correct frequency. Correct frequency = no time gain or loss. Poor soldering on the crystal leads can be a problem. Failing capacitors or soldering can be a problem. These crystals are normally specified with a matching capacitance value. Most of these clock type circuits turn off the high frequency crystal and run on the low frequency crystal when on battery back-up, to save power.

[sub3R]

I had mine apart a while ago to improve the angle I can drive the Wiz at with the remote
??
the Wiz IR receiver was shadowed quite a bit by the black plastic at any angle past about 60deg, you can see it in the high res photo just about where it looks thru, it is quite recessed in there behind that if you shine your torch on your S1 front panel you can see this. So I decided there was plenty of room to bring it forward past the shadowing section.
??

I finally found enough time to do this mod on the S1s & they now respond every time to the remote signal bounced anywhere off the ceiling or walls. I found standing the IR receiver 10mm off the board just clears the square hole made for the receiver.
A nice modification Tony.

Does anyone know what type of RTC chip is used on the Wiz? On the S1 it is mounted between the front display & the board & therefore can?t be identified without removing the display. I?ve been trying to trace the 470uF capacitor (C3) backup circuit but apart from the A7s diode (D1) most of the tracks also run under the display. I?m guessing the 32.768kHz crystal mounted beside the IR receiver is for the RTC.

Regards,

[warkus]

The chip is a SyncMOS SM8952A 8-Bit micro controller.

I have the data sheet for it if you need it.

Yes correct, the 32.786mhz crystal is for the RTC.

Have worked extensively with the front panel boards in all machines, developing a reliable super cap mechanism with over-ride, allowing for reset if need be.

Mark

[IanSav]

Hi Mark,

Have worked extensively with the front panel boards in all machines, developing a reliable super cap mechanism with over-ride, allowing for reset if need be.

Regards,
Ian.

[sub3R]

Thanks for the reply Mark & for the offer of the data sheet, but I did find it online & have downloaded it.

I assumed from what I could trace without removing the display, the RTC may have been something like an Intersil ISL12008 which is an 8 pin RTC that uses a 32.768kHz crystal & supercap backup circuit charged via a diode connected between Vcc & Vbat with the cap connected between Vbat & ground.
On the S1, seeing the diode connected to the cap in what appears to be the charging circuit & the 32.768kHz crystal in the vicinity, I thought the 8 pin package between the display & the PCB beside the micro controller could be the RTC. Do you know what this 8 pin package is?

Interesting about your supercap work. I replaced the 470uF RTC backup cap with a 0.047F supercap similar to what Phil did here but during tests I picked up an unusual issue which may be hardware related or firmware related. I can?t remember this issue being mentioned before & a search didn?t show anything like this, but it could explain the recent timer failures I had a couple of months ago prior to replacing the standard cap with a supercap. Both our S1s do exactly the same.

Briefly the issue is: Using manual or auto time, setting timers manually & running 320 f/w. If the S1 is in standby & a 240V power supply outage or failure occurs prior to a timer start time & doesn?t resume until after the start time, then the S1 won?t wake up to record any following timers. The S1 has to be switched on from standby to get it out of this condition.
However if the 240V power supply outage or failure occurs prior to a timer start time & resumes at least 5min prior to this same timer start time then the S1 will wake up to record all following timers.

Have you experienced anything like this & if not I wonder if someone could try & replicate this ? I can list my test procedure for this if anyone wants to give it a go.

Regards,

[tonymy01]

Wow, good pickup! This is not a firmware issue, it is completely under the control of the front panel IC, it must fire off the "please wake up" to the unit when under a power fail scenario (when a timer is due to start), but of course the unit doesn't respond, and it has subsequently cleared down the "wake up time". So not even the daily wakeup timer will fire the unit, as this chip only has "next wakeup time" set in it, and not a list of wakeup times. Wow. Not sure what can be done, except perhaps when power is restored, to trigger a power-on event so the unit can fire up the main motherboard which will load the next wakeup time to the front panel.
Regards

[warkus]

I may have a solution to this...

Once upon a time, in a land far far away I made a small circuit that did the following...

When 12v powered the circuit, immediately the circuit closed a single pole relay for 2 seconds and then released the relay. You can also set a delay for when the relay closes and opens.

The circuit then goes to sleep (sits dormant) for however long that may be and no longer has a function. Once 12v is removed from the ciruit and reapplied, it does its job again.

This is a very small circuit, and fits into a tiny black jiffy box.

Today I resurrected this after reading this post, and applied it to one of my wiz units... (P1)

The P1 has a permanent 12v rail on it, which is live as soon as the machine is powered up, so I hooked my circuit up to this rail. The 2 wire-wrap wires coming from the relay I soldered to the legs on the power button on the front panel display board.

Then I turned the unit on at the wall, and hey presto, it powered straight up immediately on supplying power to the machine.

Some considerations you need to be aware of...

1. Your machine will then be on, in the event of a power failure, and wont turn off without someone turning it off.
2. Currently there is no override switch on this circuit in case you dont want to apply it for some reason...Certainly no reason why I couldn't put a switch on the input rail to the curcuit to enable it or disable it. I will do that tonight.
3. With this in place, there is no reason to have a super cap, unless you have your time set to Manual. If the time is set to Auto or Time server mode, it should update automatically, as once power is restored to the machine, it will fire up straight away.

Certainly somehting to consider. The ciruit is simple enough and turning them out would cost around $10 each circuit + a small jiffy box.

It works well in my tests this arvo...

Mark

[IanSav]

Hi Mark,

You are a font of after-market upgrades for the Beyonwiz. Keep them coming!

Regards,
Ian.

[sub3R]

Tony & Mark - Good stuff.

Tony, I was afraid this may be something to do with the front panel controller ? I was hoping it was something that could be fixed in f/w.

Mark, great work ? thanks for your time & effort.

Just to make sure I have this right.

The 12V supply to your circuit is connected to the 12V rail of the P1. This 12V rail is at 12V potential whenever the P1 is in standby or powered ON. When 240V supply is restored after a power supply failure the 12V supply rail comes up to 12V which causes the cct to pick up the relay for 2 seconds then the relay drops out. The relay?s N/O contacts being in parallel with the ON switch closes the ON switch cct for 2 seconds which turns the P1 ON from standby. The P1 remains powered ON until someone manually switches it back to standby. Once powered ON all following timers will fire when due.

Obviously when your cct is in its quiescent state it is only drawing a few ?A.

Now to see how hard it would be to fit such a cct to an S1. Obviously the S1 would have a 12V rail that did the same as the P1 but I?m not sure how hard it would be to access the S1?s ON switch circuit.

Even with the above cct I think a supercap would still be a good idea if manual time is required.

This should work well. Any weekly timers that were missed during the power supply failure period would go onto the end of the timer list ready for the next week anyway.

Version 2 of your cct will probably switch the Wiz back to standby again - am I correct? Now that?s a challenge.

Regards,

[warkus]

Hi Sub3R,


Yes, you are spot on, thats how it works!

That is not really a challenge as the IC used is rather flexible and adaptable, I can change it to...

Wait 3 seconds
Close relay for 2 seconds then open
wait 5 minutes
close relay for 2 seconds then open


The drawback of this design is that every time you have a power failure or turn your wiz off at the wall, then power it up, you have to wait for 5 minutes before you can use it or otherwise it will power back off...



Small price to pay though...

Easy to fit it to an S1. The S1 has a 7v constant power rail that is live when in standby and power-on. The circuit uses a regulator to drop the voltage to 5v. I will have to check the specs on the reg but I think its 7-16v input. Easy to change to one that suits 7v anyway even if this one doesn't.

The only thing that may be a touch difficult is the finger touch power up button, not sure what that sends back to the front panel board, will need to check it out further.

Easy to get to the circuit board in the front housing, so will test it more a little later.



Mark

[sub3R]

Yep that would work Mark ? your cct is obviously programmable. So it sounds like the ON/OFF panel switch is just one single contact ? close this contact once & the Wiz turns ON, close it a second time & the Wiz shuts down to standby ? is this correct. If it is it would be easy to do.

I agree waiting 5 minutes would be a small price to pay to let the Wiz return to standby ? especially in the summer months. Unless you have an external reset button for your cct which would save waiting 5 min.

Ahh, the 12V rails are different ? that?s good info about the 7V rail. I?ll have a look for this in the next few days when I replace the power supply caps ? the S1s are coming up to their 3rd birthday so it?s about time I replaced them.

The finger touch power on button was my main concern.

Regards,

[sub3R]

?.
The S1 has a 7v constant power rail that is live when in standby and power-on. ....
?.
The only thing that may be a touch difficult is the finger touch power up button, not sure what that sends back to the front panel board, will need to check it out further.
?.

I had the S1 apart today doing some work so I took the opportunity to take some voltage measurements.

The following DC voltages were measured on the power supply board at the CN2 connector:

• With the S1 in standby the 5th connection from the rear panel end (marked 7Vs) measured 7V39 to ground.
• The ground connection used for this measurement was the 4th connection from the rear panel end (marked GND).

The following DC voltages were measured on the left hand side 9 pin connector on the front panel display board viewed from the front of the S1 (the wires from this connector run to the front touch button board):

• With the S1 in standby the 1st connection from the left end measured 4V98 to ground.
• With the S1 in standby the 4th connection from the left end measured 3V95 to ground.
• With the S1 in standby the 7th connection from the left end measured 4V98 to ground.
• The ground connection is the 5th connection from the left end.
• When the S1 was powered ON from standby using the front panel power button the 6th connection from the left end changed from 0V to 2V64 with respect to ground only for as long as the ON/OFF touch button was pressed.
• When the S1 was switched to standby from ON using the front panel power button the 6th connection from the left end changed from 0V to 2V64 with respect to ground only for as long as the ON/OFF touch button was pressed.

The following DC voltages were measured on the right hand side connector on the front panel display board viewed from the front of the S1 (the wires from this connector run to the mother board):

• With the S1 in standby the 7th connection (orange wire) from the left end measured 4V98 to ground.
• The ground connection on this connector is the 8th connection from the left end.
• Whenever the S1 was powered ON from standby using the front panel power button some voltages on this connector changed but remained in that state after the S1 powered up.

Regards,

[sub3R]

Today I took the opportunity to carry out some more quick tests following my findings in my previous post.

Using what I previously found but not knowing what device/s the 6th connection from the left (0V to 2V64) on the 9 pin connector on the LHS of the front panel display board connects to, I tried to trigger the S1 ON from standby.

Not wanting to damage any components I temporarily bridged from the 4V98 7th connection on the RHS connector to the above 6th connection via a 10k resistor & a few diodes. I could trigger the S1 to the ON condition from standby intermittently but very rarely trigger the S1 from the ON condition to standby. The touch panel indicators would light most, but not every time, and the S1 wouldn?t change state every time the indicators lit.

Not having access to a CRO anymore, not having a schematic of the boards & not wanting to unsolder the display I decided to discontinue testing.

[tonymy01]

You can't trigger the Wiz to standby from the front panel (well, that is not entirely right... but for what you are doing..), that is not how it all works. The front panel knows to interpret the power button on the remote to send the necessary wakeup pulse to the main board (and you can mimic the same wakeup pulse easily), but once the main board is running, the front panel is sending all remote control commands, including power to the running firmware to interpret. Hitting the power button does start a watchdog timer in the front panel though I suppose, so the front panel does actually listen for power always and uses the watchdog timer to initiate a forced shutdown if the main firmware hasn't responded.

I suppose you were trying to mimic the touch panel power button press perhaps? Where as the "power to on' you were mimicking I would suggest was actually sending the main board wakeup pulse.

[sub3R]

Yes I?m flying a bit blind here Tony. I was trying to mimic the front panel power button (all my previous tests were with the front panel power button ? the remote wasn?t used). Even pressing the front panel power button doesn?t get the right response every time ? sometimes the power button had to be pressed a few times before the S1 would turn ON from standby (this was on both S1s).

To summarise: I was trying to get the S1 to do something similar to what warkus achieved with a P1 here (restoration of power after a power failure or outage would bring the wiz out of standby for about five minutes then put it back to standby).
I found that by pressing the front panel power button, connection 6 which runs to the front panel touch panel from the front panel display board would change from 0V to 2V64 when the button was pressed then return to 0V ? this was going from standby to ON or ON to standby (0V when in standby or ON). By applying a potential to connection 6 instead of pressing the touch panel power button I could turn the S1 ON from standby & to standby from ON but not reliably.

Unlike a P1 it looks like this isn?t an easy task on an S1. It would have been nice to get this working to overcome the condition where the S1 won?t record any future timer recordings until switched ON from standby if a power supply outage or failure occurs at the wrong time. I guess the easy way is to leave the S1 ON 24/7 ? not an ideal situation for the switched mode power supply.

Regards,