DP-P1 : Still or Black Recordings

[Barboots]

I have a P1 which has started to cause me grief... particularly as it is often my girlfriends recordings of The Block being affected. Upon trying to play the recorded file, there may be a few seconds of video with audio, but then the playback will drop out leaving only a black screen, or a frozen still image. Skipping does not achieve anything other than changing the time position indication. The fault is definitely more prevalent on HD broadcasts, and is perhaps even exclusive to them. There does not have to be another timer running to bring about the problem. The disk has quite a few recordings on it, but only a bit more than half full.

The power supply looks OK with no signs of cap expansion or heat stress. The machine is running 01.07.070 firmware.

My first thought was to change out the original Samsung 200GB drive, however upon opening the P1 I found it is a PATA machine. This is a PITA as I don't have much in the way of drives with this interface floating around. So before I go down the road of a SATA conversion, what do the brains trust think about the root cause... should I have the power supply rebuilt, or does this sound more like a tired HDD?

Cheers,
Steve

[prl]

Are there reception problems on the affected channels when you watch them live?

[Barboots]

Sorry I should have eliminated that possibility from suggestion Peter. We do not notice any irregularities when watching live TV.

I should have also mentioned that I have noticed a few glitches in recordings that were made at the same time as another, or when timeshifting. These are a momentary freeze, or some heavy pixelation... but playback continues afterwards.

Cheers,
Steve

[MrQuade]

Have you checked the quality of reception on both tuners? Set a recording then watch another channel, or vice versa. Make sure tuner 2 isn't the dicky one.

[Barboots]

Have you checked the quality of reception on both tuners? Set a recording then watch another channel, or vice versa. Make sure tuner 2 isn't the dicky one.

Would the machine ever use tuner 2 for a single recording? In the case of The Block, the machine is definitely otherwise unoccupied at the time, and would have brought itself out of sleep for the recording event. I figured it would always use tuner 1 first... no???

Cheers,
Steve

[MrQuade]

Would the machine ever use tuner 2 for a single recording? In the case of The Block, the machine is definitely otherwise unoccupied at the time, and would have brought itself out of sleep for the recording event. I figured it would always use tuner 1 first... no???

If it woke from sleep for a single recording then I would expect it to have used tuner 1.
I was just thinking if you had been watching something live on another channel when this one fired off.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

The fault is definitely more prevalent on HD broadcasts, and is perhaps even exclusive to them.

Is it exclusive to the MPEG4 services? Perhaps that "special" P1 firmware is having issues with those services?

[Barboots]

Would the machine ever use tuner 2 for a single recording? In the case of The Block, the machine is definitely otherwise unoccupied at the time, and would have brought itself out of sleep for the recording event. I figured it would always use tuner 1 first... no???

If it woke from sleep for a single recording then I would expect it to have used tuner 1.
I was just thinking if you had been watching something live on another channel when this one fired off.

I'm still going to monitor for this... I figure I can just check the record indicator on the front panel.

The fault is definitely more prevalent on HD broadcasts, and is perhaps even exclusive to them.

Is it exclusive to the MPEG4 services? Perhaps that "special" P1 firmware is having issues with those services?

Look this is possible, but the machine had become quite a pig prior to loading it. Many HD broadcasts would play up upon selecting them, and would require another service to be selected, then returning to the originally selected channel. Aside from the subject occasional fuffed recording, the new firmware has been awesome and has saved the machine from retirement.

[Barboots]

Rummaging through my treasures I found I have a 160GB PATA drive in a Western Digital housing... I just need to get a T20 5 point Torx Plus security bit to open it. This will allow me to hook up the suspect drive to my WinBox for diagnosis, plus offer an alternate drive to test in the DP-P1. Hopefully it's not so slow it creates problems, but I figure with just one recording going on even a slow drive will keep up with the data flow.

I'd still like to hear from people who have suggestions, but at least I have something to try.

On the subject of SATA conversion, has anyone had experience with this rather cheap and nasty looking converter?
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/nollama ... 1161762081

Alternatively:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/StarTech-40 ... 3184642348
https://www.lindy.com.au/sata-converter-for-ide-drives
https://www.mwave.com.au/product/starte ... er-ab66983

I figure the Startech is probably the one to go for, but if I could grab one locally it'd save me having to revisit this in a week when parts arrive.

[MrQuade]

The first one looks almost identical to the good old Altronics converter that is tried and true. (To my memory at least)

Remember that the DP series is happiest with a maximum 1TB drive. 2TB is possible, but it did have some limitations when disk checking from memory.

I installed a 2.5" SATA drive in my DP-S1 years ago and it is still working happily.

[Barboots]

The first one looks almost identical to the good old Altronics converter that is tried and true. (To my memory at least)

That's what I was fishing for
By "first" you mean the Gumtree one?

[MrQuade]

By "first" you mean the Gumtree one?

Yep, the Gumtree one.

It actually looks nicer than the others. Note that the red ones lack a proper plug for the IDE side (only pins), and the Lindy one doesn't have a Molex power plug.

[Barboots]

Yep, the Gumtree one. It actually looks nicer than the others. Note that the red ones lack a proper plug for the IDE side (only pins), and the Lindy one doesn't have a Molex power plug.

Thank you sir. For $19 I'll grab one and see if either the 1TB Seagate Barracuda or WD Black I have can improve the failure rate on recordings.

Cheers, Steve

[MrQuade]

Thank you sir. For $19 I'll grab one and see if either the 1TB Seagate Barracuda or WD Black I have can improve the failure rate on recordings.

I'd be buying a low RPM drive, not one of the higher RPM/noise/heat/price models.
The difference between WD Blue and WD Black for instance is small, but you don't need the extra performance.

[sub3R]

This is what my good Altronics one looks like:

On the other side is some foam, the serial connector & the JM20330 Serial ATA Bridge Chip which looks like this.

[Barboots]

Thank you sir. For $19 I'll grab one and see if either the 1TB Seagate Barracuda or WD Black I have can improve the failure rate on recordings.

I'd be buying a low RPM drive, not one of the higher RPM/noise/heat/price models.
The difference between WD Blue and WD Black for instance is small, but you don't need the extra performance.

I know I have a 500GB WD Green I could clear out... and maybe a Blue as well. However it would be easiest for me to use the Barracuda as it is ready to go. Maybe I just leave the case open while I'm testing... if all goes well I'll buy whatever the brains trust recommend.

[Barboots]

This is what my good Altronics one looks like:
On the other side is some foam, the serial connector & the JM20330 Serial ATA Bridge Chip which looks like this.

Cool... thanks for that. t's a Kingwin SSD/SATA to IDE Bridge Board Adapter. They appear to be difficult to source here... I can't get lower than $40, with the added bonus of slow postage from overseas.

The age old question: do I try something different and potentially chuck some money into the bin?

[peteru]

I'd suspect the power supply before the HDD. Stuffing about with the HDD might be going into a lot of effort and expense for no gain.

The symptoms you describe suggest that the tuners are failing to deliver data. If you can 100% guarantee that the issue is not with the antenna signal or tuner connections, then the most likely suspect is the power supply.

Your symptoms do not suggest that there is a problem with the HDD.

[sub3R]

Cool... thanks for that. t's a Kingwin SSD/SATA to IDE Bridge Board Adapter. They appear to be difficult to source here... I can't get lower than $40, with the added bonus of slow postage from overseas.

The age old question: do I try something different and potentially chuck some money into the bin?

The Kingwin ADP-06 SSD/SATA to IDE Bridge Board Adapter looks to be a slightly different layout to the product previously sold by Altronics. The ADP-06 also uses a GL830 Serial ATA Bridge Chip whereas the Altronics supplied one used a JM20330 Serial ATA Bridge Chip. Kingwin ADP-06.

The adapter previously sold by Altronics had a very good track record but hasn’t been available to my knowledge for quite some time. If I had to get another adapter, based on the performance of the Altronics supplied model, I would try & get an adapter with a JM20330 Serial ATA Bridge Chip. That’s not to say the other adapters available aren’t any good, but I think it may be buy, try & see. And even another adapter with a JM20330 Serial ATA Bridge Chip may not perform as well as the product previously sold by Altronics.

I agree with peteru’s comments in the previous post. Based on my experience, Beyonwiz PVRs require a good solid interference free signal. One of the many but probably the easiest items to check would be the antenna fly lead connections at the wall socket & the PVR if the cheap & nasty PAL type connections are used (F-type are superior). These can get rusty & also lose their tension at both the centre & outside contacts, requiring a clean & re-tension. Electrical interference in the house can also cause video/audio breakup.

The power supply would also be on the top of my list. The electrolytic capacitors don’t have to be bulging to be failing. When I refurbished the power supplies on both our DP-S1s quite some time ago I went the extra mile & replaced every electrolytic capacitor in the power supply with good quality capacitors. This was well worth the trouble. And don’t just look at the capacitors, I also found & repaired a couple of dry solder joints on the back of the power supply board.

If you do need to try another HDD, based only on some of warkus’s past posts, I would put the WD green at the bottom of the list.

I may have missed it, but I trust the P1 has plenty of ventilation & isn’t getting too hot.

[Paul_oz53]

I'd suspect the power supply before the HDD. Stuffing about with the HDD might be going into a lot of effort and expense for no gain.

The symptoms you describe suggest that the tuners are failing to deliver data. If you can 100% guarantee that the issue is not with the antenna signal or tuner connections, then the most likely suspect is the power supply.

Your symptoms do not suggest that there is a problem with the HDD.

+1 - when my P2 hard drives played up the faults were with accessing the recordings, not the content. Warkus diagnosed one to be purely the PSU and a second to be a mix of PSU and HDD.

By all means, replace the PATA drive with a larger SATA based unit and enjoy extra storage but I also strongly recommend all owners of older DP series units to replace the PSU caps to enjoy an extended life of the machine.

Quite apart from this forum, YouTube is full of service videos of techs replacing PSU caps in all sorts of equipment because they failed due to age, etc. The good repairers replace all the caps. The bad ones only replace the ones that have failed (false economy in my book.) My P2s and S1 are still quite usable if needed thanks to rebuilds. (I've run out of places to install them so only one P2 is still in active service.)

PS. Although less common, the ageing of PSU caps can also affect the smaller electrolytic caps on the motherboard to a lesser degree. One of my P2's developed an "Error 0000" condition due to the small caps.

[Barboots]

Have you checked the quality of reception on both tuners? Set a recording then watch another channel, or vice versa. Make sure tuner 2 isn't the dicky one.

So coming back with some info...

It appears that very rarely tuner two is weak upon changing channels. The signal level is almost bottom of the scale, when ordinarily it is very close to maximum. Changing channels again fixes the problem of no reception, but obviously this doesn't happen on a recording.

Should I be looking to secure a donor tuner module in order to effect a repair?

Cheers,
Steve

[IanB]

All your woes point to power supply right on the margin.

Talk to Warkus (phone WA time) about a refurb.

http://www.decisivecomputersolutions.co ... ntact.html

[Barboots]

Thanks Ian, and all who pointed in the same direction before. I just wanted to be sure that I was on the right track given the additional information from watching the machine a little bit more closely.

I'll drop the old workhorse off at Mark's for some TLC.

Cheers, Steve