Option to revert firmwares on OTA updates

download · Post by **download** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 13:44

I would imagine the "OTA" firmware update feature in TheWiz is just a straight forward, there's a new FW notification, push here to load it. A great development in itself.

However I would like to suggest two very easy additions:

1) Why not provide the ability to either "save" your current firmware for reverting, or just provide a list of say the last 3 firmwares and the user could select to go back if they want to? Could be put in a sub menu to help avoid confusing users as to what FW they should install.

2) Be good to have an associated text file display on the wiz perhaps giving a brief run down on the changes / improvements the new FW offers.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 13:58

download wrote:I would imagine the "OTA" firmware update feature in TheWiz is just a straight forward, there's a new FW notification, push here to load it. A great development in itself.

However I would like to suggest two very easy additions:

1) Why not provide the ability to either "save" your current firmware for reverting, or just provide a list of say the last 3 firmwares and the user could select to go back if they want to? Could be put in a sub menu to help avoid confusing users as to what FW they should install.

This was discussed in the beta forum soon after we discovered that WizTV supported firmware downloads, and some suggestions were made about how the interface would look. It's not in the most recent beta that I've done a download with, and neither Hanjo (makinen) nor peteru have mentioned that it has been implemented.

download wrote: 2) Be good to have an associated text file display on the wiz perhaps giving a brief run down on the changes / improvements the new FW offers.
...

Yes, I think that would be useful. Much better than the TiVo "you'll have it whether you want it or not" upgrades.

Kermiac · Post by **Kermiac** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 13:59

I agree that the ability to upgrade via wiztv (well i agree with the idea, having not had access to test this feature as yet).

I also believe that displaying a changelog would be a great idea to save having to get onto the pc to see this information before deciding to go ahead with the update or not.

If not too hard to implement, the idea of being able to select a firmware to revert back to is a good idea, as long as the default option selected is to upgrade to the newly released firmware so users do not inadvertently downgrade the wiz instead of upgrade it

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 14:20

This is what I suggested for accessing old versions on the beta group:

prl wrote:... perhaps a "Firmware" item that's always present on the top level [of the WizTV menu tree] that takes you to a page that displays the current firmware version, the latest available firmware version, and has two buttons, Upgrade Firmware and Earlier Firmware. Earlier Firmware takes you to a list of available earlier versions, select and click OK to choose which version, then click a confirm button on a new screen to install. The top level Firmware button could have a highlight when there is new firmware available so you don't need to enter the Firmware page to check for updates.

Does that sound close?

download · Post by **download** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 14:25

Does that sound close?

Not really. My suggestion would use the term "Prior firmware" rather than "Earlier firmware" (and I was also concerning using a capital F as well).

Regards

Peter Gillespie

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 14:28

download wrote:
prl wrote:Does that sound close?
Not really. My suggestion would use the term "Prior firmware" rather than "Earlier firmware" (and I was also concerning using a capital F as well).

Regards

Peter Gillespie

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 19:34

In almost 2 years of wiz ownership I can't remember any wiz fw ever being worse than the previous one (except for the march 2008 version that was replaced within 2 days). As such it is always best to upgrade to the newest firmware.

99% of wiz owners have no interest in reverting to old fw (half of them don't even know what fw is). So I see no reason to complicate things by providing a fw choice via wiztv - apart from the choice of whether to upgrade or not (to currently offered latest version).

If you really want to go backwards you can use a USB stick or your network and manually download the file from the .com website.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 19:42

Dave? wrote:In almost 2 years of wiz ownership I can't remember any wiz fw ever being worse than the previous one (except for the march 2008 version that was replaced within 2 days). As such it is always best to upgrade to the newest firmware.
...

DP-H1 users who wanted to copy recordings to a network share (still the only way to get recordings off a H1) weren't too impressed with 1.05.261, and some of them stayed with, or reverted to, the previous firmware, 1.05.247.

brianh · Post by **brianh** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 22:00

Dave? wrote:In almost 2 years of wiz ownership I can't remember any wiz fw ever being worse than the previous one (except for the march 2008 version that was replaced within 2 days). As such it is always best to upgrade to the newest firmware.

99% of wiz owners have no interest in reverting to old fw (half of them don't even know what fw is). So I see no reason to complicate things by providing a fw choice via wiztv - apart from the choice of whether to upgrade or not (to currently offered latest version).

If you really want to go backwards you can use a USB stick or your network and manually download the file from the .com website.

From memory, There were a few issues with one release where a step back was the only way to restore some functionality that was lost... (playing networked files, I think?) but as stated, this can easily be achieved via file download from the website.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 01:10

No decisions have been made, but here are some points to consider:

All input is taken on board and considered. Customer feedback is good.

At this point in time, there is no OTA firmware upgrade mode. All firmware upgrades require some form of Internet download, whether directly to the PVR or via a PC.

WizTV is for the masses and as such simplicity is a virtue not to be ignored. Too much choice and need for interaction can intimidate and confuse customers. Those of you familiar with some of the work I've done previously will know that I like simple, clean and efficient designs. Just enough to get the job done quickly.

Having all users using the latest firmware is a much better support proposition than supporting a huge variety of versions. Having said that, the latest firmware is not being forced onto anyone, just made accessible very easily and with no fuss.

Those with special needs can use conventional "via the PC" methods - there's nothing precluding "advanced" users from having their own way.

The big one: Backwards and forwards compatibility. In general, supporting a move from a newer firmware to older firmware is not something that can be done (easily).

My main train of thought is that people who decide they want to downgrade have a very specific reason and probably the cognitive skills to go to the website and download a specific firmware version.

For the majority of users, it's as painless as it can get:

Code: Select all

"Do you want the latest and greatest?"  Yes/No

download · Post by **download** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 08:13

peteru wrote:No decisions have been made, but here are some points to consider:

All input is taken on board and considered. Customer feedback is good.

At this point in time, there is no OTA firmware upgrade mode. All firmware upgrades require some form of Internet download, whether directly to the PVR or via a PC.

WizTV is for the masses and as such simplicity is a virtue not to be ignored. Too much choice and need for interaction can intimidate and confuse customers. Those of you familiar with some of the work I've done previously will know that I like simple, clean and efficient designs. Just enough to get the job done quickly.

Having all users using the latest firmware is a much better support proposition than supporting a huge variety of versions. Having said that, the latest firmware is not being forced onto anyone, just made accessible very easily and with no fuss.

Those with special needs can use conventional "via the PC" methods - there's nothing precluding "advanced" users from having their own way.

The big one: Backwards and forwards compatibility. In general, supporting a move from a newer firmware to older firmware is not something that can be done (easily).

My main train of thought is that people who decide they want to downgrade have a very specific reason and probably the cognitive skills to go to the website and download a specific firmware version.

For the majority of users, it's as painless as it can get:
Code: Select all
"Do you want the latest and greatest?"  Yes/No

All good points Peter.

NB I was using the term OTA loosely. I think you might be right in this instance. Freedom is provided to perform a downgrade while for 98% of users a simple upgrade option is provided.

I'd be thinking then of power users and maybe have a hidden option that makes a reversion simple (say copy any old FW file to a directory and replace any other old FW files) then if a user hits 1-6-3-4 the WizTV update fires but is just redirected to to backup file. This would be an unofficial feature, just something to ad to the list

.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

brianh · Post by **brianh** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 21:24

Don't worry, as Gully has stated in the ICETV post

Gully wrote: About a week ago I dropped in on Peter tomorrow to help him out but I guess he doesn't remember it as it hasn't happened on his timeline.

Seems he will be over your way soon to have helped you, you could always check with him whether this will has been achieved down the track.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 21:33

brianh wrote:Don't worry, as Gully has stated in the ICETV post

Gully wrote: About a week ago I dropped in on Peter tomorrow to help him out but I guess he doesn't remember it as it hasn't happened on his timeline.
Seems he will be over your way soon to have helped you, you could always check with him whether this will has been achieved down the track.

Done already - next week Peter said it was all fine.

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 23:34

download wrote:I'd be thinking then of power users and maybe have a hidden option that makes a reversion simple (say copy any old FW file to a directory and replace any other old FW files) then if a user hits 1-6-3-4 the WizTV update fires but is just redirected to to backup file.

Peter, this ability already exists. For WizTV to work the user must have their beyonwiz connected to a home network with internet access. Most users with a home network and internet access would also have a PC of some sort connected to the same network. Many of these people (and all power users) are already going to have at least one shared directory on their networked PC that their beyonwiz can access. In one of these shared directories would be copies of previous firmware versions. So it's a simple procedure for most beyonwiz owners (who have WizTV working) to view their list of old firmware and downgrade their beyonwiz if desired.

grl · Post by **grl** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:09

Dave? wrote: Peter, this ability already exists. For WizTV to work the user must have their beyonwiz connected to a home network with internet access. Most users with a home network and internet access would also have a PC of some sort connected to the same network. Many of these people (and all power users) are already going to have at least one shared directory on their networked PC that their beyonwiz can access. In one of these shared directories would be copies of previous firmware versions. So it's a simple procedure for most beyonwiz owners (who have WizTV working) to view their list of old firmware and downgrade their beyonwiz if desired.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I reckon the number of BW owners with internet who don't have a PC is very small. Is it small enough to ignore? I think so, but that is not the point. It is convenience that is probably the main driver. Also as has already been said, most people only ever put on new firmware. It is in BWs interest to get people to upgrade as generally some sales are driven by word of mouth. People with less buggy more featureful firmware will be happier and spread the word about BW.

There is also the class of BW owners who are not terribly computer literate who may well have trouble downloading and copying files onto USB sticks etc. This will be a major plus for them as they will have the ability to easily upgrade. Backing out using the same method seems reasonable to me.

Orf · Post by **Orf** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 08:34

grl wrote:I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I reckon the number of BW owners with internet who don't have a PC is very small. Is it small enough to ignore? I think so, but that is not the point. It is convenience that is probably the main driver. Also as has already been said, most people only ever put on new firmware. It is in BWs interest to get people to upgrade as generally some sales are driven by word of mouth. People with less buggy more featureful firmware will be happier and spread the word about BW.
There is also the class of BW owners who are not terribly computer literate who may well have trouble downloading and copying files onto USB sticks etc. This will be a major plus for them as they will have the ability to easily upgrade. Backing out using the same method seems reasonable to me.

I have one question for you grl. How would owners of a wiz who do not have a computer and access to this forum know that new firmware has been issued and that the WIZTV now works?

grl · Post by **grl** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 06:26

Orf wrote:
grl wrote:I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I reckon the number of BW owners with internet who don't have a PC is very small. Is it small enough to ignore? I think so, but that is not the point. It is convenience that is probably the main driver. Also as has already been said, most people only ever put on new firmware. It is in BWs interest to get people to upgrade as generally some sales are driven by word of mouth. People with less buggy more featureful firmware will be happier and spread the word about BW.
There is also the class of BW owners who are not terribly computer literate who may well have trouble downloading and copying files onto USB sticks etc. This will be a major plus for them as they will have the ability to easily upgrade. Backing out using the same method seems reasonable to me.
I have one question for you grl. How would owners of a wiz who do not have a computer and access to this forum know that new firmware has been issued and that the WIZTV now works?

Hey Orf, no idea. Also no idea how your question relates to my post. :D

Orf · Post by **Orf** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 16:59

Well, grl, it supports the idea of using WIZTV to download and install new software. I suggest there should be an option to manually install or install automatically.