Email to BW support re AP-E1

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 08:56

Hi

Sent the following email to BW support on Monday morning, a little surprised that I haven't heard from them yet.

Thought it was wise to give them a direct opportunity to respond rather than just venting on the forum.

Will post the response when I receive it.

regards

Smeg
________________

Email to - 'enquiry@beyonwiz.com.au'

Hi

I have a Beyonwiz DP S1 and ten days ago I purchased an AP-E1. Before I get in to the detail I should add that I?ve had the S1 since they first came out and think it is a fantastic device and I have recommended it to a number of friends who have also purchased one.

In using the E1 I have found a number of problems and I was wondering if Beyonwiz is going to address these problems or if I should return the device.

The problems I have found are -

- Recording a 16:9 program in normal mode the picture is squeezed down to about 15:9
- Using the ?centre cut? option for 4:3 squeezes the picture to almost a square 1:1
- Special codecs need to be loaded on to a PC get to get an E1 recorded program to play on the PC. I used the FFDShow codecs
- To date I have only been able to get the E1 files to play on a PC using Media Player Classic. Even with the FFDShow codecs loaded I am unable to play the files with any of the many other media player programs I have.
- The files when played on a PC are quite washed out as if the gamma for the video display is set to high.
- I have been unable to find any conversion software that will read either the .TS files or TVWiz directory to enable the conversion to MPG. This means that it is impossible to edit the files or to back them up to other media in a more universally readable format.

All of this I find a little disappointing, after paying $270 for the E1 I have a device that performs worse and creates less usable files than the $75 USB capture device I already have on my PC.

Look forward to your response

Regards

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 09:18

Hi Smeg888,

In case you are not aware, it is Lunar New Year in Korea so all the Korea staff are away on holidays. They should return next week. The answers you seek may be available after they return.

Regarding your codec issues, may I suggest that you work with the .tvwiz format directory stucture. It is generally more usable. The .ts format files appear to have a corrupted/mal-formed header that can confuse a number of codecs. ProjectX, VLC and a number of other programs are quite happy using the .tvwiz structure.

I would like to say more but I can't, yet.

Regards,
Ian.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 09:22

Ian

The e-mail was to Australia.

Smeg

Phone calls usually are better for getting a response from BW Australia (assuming the phones are up and running again).

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 09:24

Hi Gully,

Gully wrote:The e-mail was to Australia.

I know, but I think that the answers would need to come from Korea.

Regards,
Ian.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:00

IanSav wrote:Hi Smeg888,

In case you are not aware, it is Lunar New Year in Korea so all the Korea staff are away on holidays. They should return next week. The answers you seek may be available after they return.

Regarding your codec issues, may I suggest that you work with the .tvwiz format directory stucture. It is generally more usable. The .ts format files appear to have a corrupted/mal-formed header that can confuse a number of codecs. ProjectX, VLC and a number of other programs are quite happy using the .tvwiz structure.

I would like to say more but I can't, yet.

Regards,
Ian.

Hi Ian

Thanks for the update.

I can't get VLC (latest version) to play either the .ts files or the tvwiz directories. The .ts files just plays audio with scrambled video, the tvwiz directory plays the audio for about 20 seconds then gives an error and freezes VLC.

regards

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:10

IanSav wrote:Hi Gully,
Gully wrote:The e-mail was to Australia.
I know, but I think that the answers would need to come from Korea.

Regards,
Ian.

Hi Ian

I realise that but the holiday shouldn't stop an Australian response even one to say there will be more news soon.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:24

Hi Gully,

Gully wrote:I realise that but the holiday shouldn't stop an Australian response even one to say there will be more news soon.

Shhhhhhhh!!! I was trying to give the Australian guys an out for not responding quickly.

Regards,
Ian.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 13:57

I have detailed ad nausea my findings in other posts so I won't go into detail here but merely summarise my findings and what I can do with these files.

First it doesn't matter a tinkers a**** if you work with TS or TVWIZ these files are not the same format as normal BW files that bear the same suffix's They present different problems.

Following the lead from smeg888 I installed FFDSHOW and I can play these files (both TS and tvwiz format) without bother on my computer complete with sound - still not sure why it doesn't work for smeg888.

When it comes to editing in preparation to making a DVD or AVI etc the only program I have found that will deal with the LiDiC TS format is TMPGenc Express. This package baulks at selecting any or all of the small files comprising a tvwiz file format. So I convert to TS or download from the BW as TS, makes no difference, TS works.

The real rub is neither format will play back the original file from the BW internal HDD in the correct aspect ratio, that is the number one problem and should have been picked up before the unit was released for sale - clearly a quality control oversight.

I wish I could help smeg888 as it is ironic that he solved my problem in the first place.

I have my replacement unit but I don't intend to reconnect it until the next firmware update lest there is a 'local issue' that I'm blissfully unaware of

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 15:06

Hi Netmask,

netmask wrote:First it doesn't matter a tinkers a**** if you work with TS or TVWIZ these files are not the same format as normal BW files that bear the same suffix's They present different problems.

These are containers that may contain contents that can be coded with different codecs.

netmask wrote:Following the lead from smeg888 I installed FFDSHOW and I can play these files (both TS and tvwiz format) without bother on my computer complete with sound - still not sure why it doesn't work for smeg888.

You both have probably got a different mix of codecs available on your machines.

netmask wrote:The real rub is neither format will play back the original file from the BW internal HDD in the correct aspect ratio, that is the number one problem and should have been picked up before the unit was released for sale - clearly a quality control oversight.

I was surprised to see the issues when I tested the LiDiC I bought for my friend. I have not heard of anyone, who has a LiDiC, that doesn't have issues. Yes, I was also surprised that these issues were not picked up at the QC stage.

I hope Beyonwiz will tell (or let me tell) what they have coming up for us when they return from their New Year celebrations.

netmask wrote:I have my replacement unit but I don't intend to reconnect it until the next firmware update lest there is a 'local issue' that I'm blissfully unaware of

Why don't you want to try it out? That makes no sense. You should check it out ASAP in case there are any other issues that may warrant a DOA return.

If your comment was to make fun of me then that is your problem. I don't wish to play such rude and offensive games.

Regards,
Ian.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 15:44

Not at all Ian since you originally raised the local issue thing I became somewhat paranoid about connecting any peripherals to the system. I have dotted every eye and measured everything I can think of but cannot find any external factors like earth currents, RF etc. But until I hear some acknowledgement from BW management that something is or isn't wrong with the LiDiC I'll leave it sitting on the table. No offence intended.

PS I would love to hear from anyone who a LiDIC that does not have any aspect ratio problem with playing back a LiDiC captured file from the internal drive.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 15:59

netmask wrote:Following the lead from smeg888 I installed FFDSHOW and I can play these files (both TS and tvwiz format) without bother on my computer complete with sound - still not sure why it doesn't work for smeg888.

Hi Netmask

Think I must have confused things with all my post. After installing FFDSHow I can play the .ts files using Media Player Classic - although none of my other media players will work with the files.

What I haven't been successful with is editting in TMPGenc Express.

regards

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 16:08

This is the beauty of many media players in that they don't support those silly windows filters to play, so you have full control over them. Anything that uses the windows filters can be problematic to find the right muxers, video codecs, deinterlacers etc etc and some don't work well with others.
VLC and "The KMPLayer" (my 2 favourites) both use their own codecs.

Now you have FFDshow filters working, perhaps this will help with some editors, but does TMPGenc Express support the windows codec/filters, or does it have its own?

(I think these filters are called "directshow" but I may be wrong).
Regards

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 16:43

Hi Netmask,

netmask wrote:PS I would love to hear from anyone who a LiDIC that does not have any aspect ratio problem with playing back a LiDiC captured file from the internal drive.

I must admit that when I did a quick test of my friend's LiDiC the first thing I noticed was that the brightness was way wrong. The aspect ratio wasn't obvious in comparison.

I still have the LiDiC, for a few more days only as the DP-S1 it is meant to go with has now arrived, is there some sort of tests you would like me to try? The only playing I have done has been with 16:9 material from input from a HD STB. I was going to try some more things over the weekend. I am happy to try any tests you would like to suggest.

Regards,
Ian.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 18:24

These are my results after installing FFDshow

Not sure how to insert a table but I think one should be able to follow it

Software Accepted Correct Aspect Audio codec Video codec

Windows Media Player v11 yes Aspect ratio no - 5:4 Morgan Stream Switcher FFDShow
Media Player Classic yes yes 4:3 AAC 48k 98Kbps ?
VLC v 0.8.6d crashes
VLC v 0.9.0 yes yes 4:3 ? ?
KMPlayer crashes
WinAvi yes yes no sound ?
Canopus yes yes AAC 48k 98Kbps MP4
Windows Movie Maker No
Womble No
Vegas 6 No
TMPGEnc 3.0 Xpress yes yes 4:3 ? ?

So far the only programs that will convert a LiDiC TS file to MPEG etc are TMPGenc Express and Canopus. So far no freeware or shareware programs found.

The source material was a 4:3 movie on VHS

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:44

tonymy01 wrote:This is the beauty of many media players in that they don't support those silly windows filters to play, so you have full control over them. Anything that uses the windows filters can be problematic to find the right muxers, video codecs, deinterlacers etc etc and some don't work well with others.
VLC and "The KMPLayer" (my 2 favourites) both use their own codecs.

Now you have FFDshow filters working, perhaps this will help with some editors, but does TMPGenc Express support the windows codec/filters, or does it have its own?

(I think these filters are called "directshow" but I may be wrong).
Regards

I'm really not sure which codecs TMPGenc uses however as my computer is actually an audio workstation I have nearly 850 listed in DirectShow as shown by AVICodec

So it probably doesn't support windows/filters as it's apparently using FFDShow's collection.
AVIcodec only lists 14 Windows codecs

"You can't have enough codecs!!!"

PS below are part of the specs for TMPGenc

Video input
AVI (Uncompressed or format provided by the installed CODEC)1
MPEG-1 System stream (*.mpg)
MPEG-1 Video Elementary stream (*.m1v)
MPEG-2 Program strem (*.mpg, *.m2p)
MPEG-2 Video Elementary stream (*.m2v)
Windows Media file (*.wmv)2
QuickTime file (*.mov, *.qt, *.mp4, *.3gp, *.3g2, *.amc)3
Format readable through the installed VFAPI plug-in
Format readable through DirectShow

Audio input
MPEG-1 Audio Layer II (*.mp2)
Dolby Digital AC-34
WAVE (*.wav)
(Uncompressed or format provided by the installed CODEC, support the Extensible format)
Recognized AVI (*.avi) format
Windows Media file (*.wma)2
Format readable through the installed VFAPI plug-in
Format readable through DirectShow

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 13:06

Hi Netmask,

netmask wrote:"You can't have enough codecs!!!"

More like we can't get enough co-operation to reduce the number of codecs required and the complexity of their use.

Regards,
Ian.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 17:32

Wonder if the guys in Korea have returned from their top spinning and kite flying.

Still waiting on a response to the email I sent about the E1 last Monday.

My "be patient" to the Finance Minister seems to be wearing thin and was met yeaterday with "why don't you just take it back - it's almost useless, and that other thing you already had works alright".

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 17:55

Hi Smeg888,

smeg888 wrote:Wonder if the guys in Korea have returned from their top spinning and kite flying.

I believe that they were due to return to work today. I haven't had any contact as yet so I may be mistaken.

Regards,
Ian.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 18:00

IanSav wrote:Hi Smeg888,
smeg888 wrote:Wonder if the guys in Korea have returned from their top spinning and kite flying.
I believe that they were due to return to work today. I haven't had any contact as yet so I may be mistaken.

Regards,
Ian.

Thanks. I'll see if I can keep the Finance Minister at bay a while longer.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 18:53

Hi Smeg888,

smeg888 wrote:Thanks. I'll see if I can keep the Finance Minister at bay a while longer.

Given that you should be getting an answer from the Australian operation, may I suggest that you give them a call tomorrow to see what is holding up their response.

Regards,
Ian.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:32

IanSav wrote:Hi Smeg888,
smeg888 wrote:Thanks. I'll see if I can keep the Finance Minister at bay a while longer.
Given that you should be getting an answer from the Australian operation, may I suggest that you give them a call tomorrow to see what is holding up their response.

Regards,
Ian.

Rang BW Aust this morning. Talked to a guy that said he had noticed the posts on the forum about the E1.

He noted down all the issues and said he would contact Jackie in Korea to see what they knew of it and if they had any plans for the E1.

Let's see what happens.

regards

grunta · Post by **grunta** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:37

my personal opinion is ........ take it back, it's obviously not working (for you), then if and when you get a reply that addresses the issues (with a fix) go out and buy another one ....... if it take 2-3 months to fix - thats 2-3 months off your warranty do don't get back, for what is now - an unoperational unit (effectively)

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 13:37

A high return rate will cause the retailers to not stock the item and flag the issue to the distributor.

A high return rate will cause the distributor to either take up the matter with the manufacturer and come up with a rectification process or dump their existing stock and abandon the product.

A high return rate will cause the manufacturer to either fix issues or kill the product.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 16:54

grunta wrote:my personal opinion is ........ take it back, it's obviously not working (for you), then if and when you get a reply that addresses the issues (with a fix) go out and buy another one ....... if it take 2-3 months to fix - thats 2-3 months off your warranty do don't get back, for what is now - an unoperational unit (effectively)

I'd like to take it back, but, on the other hand, if they could get it to work properly it would fit in with some of the things I want to do.

The warranty point is a good one though.

Will give BW Korea a few days to see what they say.

regards

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 18:54

At the present time the only thing it is good for is to transfer files from an analog source on to the BW hard disk in order to transfer to your PC for editing and transforming into a medium that the BW can playback in the correct aspect ratio. Playing back the file directly from the BW after capturing results in an unwatchable incorrect aspect ratio. So you may as well buy an Aldi capture device for $75 connected to your computer.

I think the solution could be simple as an update of the codecs in the BW, but it would have been nice if someone, anyone from BW in Korea or a rep who knows the whole deal would have laid out a road map of a solution.

The only saving grace for me is it is a convenient way to capture my VHS tapes without tying up my computer for hours on end and optimistically a solution *may* pop up in the next firmware build if that includes an improvement in the file player and format types.

I downloaded a file from an overseas source that has the following characteristics listed below. The BW struggled to play it. The aspect ratio was correct unlike the files via the LiDiC however the vision froze on about the 2 second point but the sound continued. Based on this observation I'm optimistic that a simple codec solution within the BW is all that's necessary to make the LiDiC a viable product.

The local BW distributor should place some priority on this to get a resolution otherwise the reputation of BW will suffer. Already the salesman who sold me my unit and my replacement commented "they tell me it's a ***** product" and he won't sell any more not that there has been much demand. It would be interesting to know what the sales figures are and what the satisfaction level is?!

Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format/Family : MPEG-4
File size : 687 MiB
PlayTime : 58mn 40s
Bit rate : 1637 Kbps
StreamSize : 3.86 MiB

Video #0
Codec : H.264
Codec/Info : H.264 (3GPP)
PlayTime : 58mn 40s
Bit rate : 1500 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 360 pixels
Aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.256
StreamSize : 629 MiB
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2007-10-26 00:44:02
Tagged date : UTC 2007-10-26 05:10:28

Audio #0
Codec : AAC LC
Codec/Info : AAC Low Complexity
PlayTime : 58mn 40s
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Bit rate mode : CBR
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
StreamSize : 53.8 MiB
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2007-10-26 00:44:03
Tagged date : UTC 2007-10-26 05:10:29

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 18:59

Hi Guys,

I made a point of highlighting the LiDiC issues in a communication with Beyonwiz Korea today. I am waiting for a responce that I hope I will be given permission to repeat here.

Regards,
Ian.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 09:01

IanSav wrote:Hi Guys,

I made a point of highlighting the LiDiC issues in a communication with Beyonwiz Korea today. I am waiting for a responce that I hope I will be given permission to repeat here.

Regards,
Ian.

Ian

I guess no response from Korea?

regards

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:20

Hi Smeg888,

smeg888 wrote:I guess no response from Korea?

Not what I was expecting.

I wish they would say what they told me a few weeks ago, or let me tell. It was great news.

Still, the topic that we did discuss would still be of interest. They are trying to work out priorities for firmware development. I gather they are staying quiet until they work the details out. Bugs and problems and missing features are still highest on the agenda. I repeated the request for urgent attention to the LiDiC bugs.

We will all have to wait to see what comes out of their planning and strategy meetings.

Regards,
Ian.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 17:39

Still very quiet on the LiDiC front.

Get the feeling that BW Korea hope it will go away.

Anyone heard any word on if they have plans to sort the thing out???

regards

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 17:45

Hi Smeg888,

Funny you should ask, I put a message through to Beyonwiz just a few minutes ago. One of the items was about the progress of the LiDiC fixes.

Regards,
Ian.

smeg888 · Post by **smeg888** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 18:48

IanSav wrote:Hi Smeg888,

Funny you should ask, I put a message through to Beyonwiz just a few minutes ago. One of the items was about the progress of the LiDiC fixes.

Regards,
Ian.

Great minds??

Email to BW support re AP-E1

Email to BW support re AP-E1

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