DP-S1 won't play VR format DVD discs

NorvilBob · Post by **NorvilBob** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 19:55

I've just installed a DP-S1 and have found that the DVD player won't play the hundreds of hours of recordings from my old Topfield that I burnt to DVD-RW using my Pioneer DVD recorder. What's happening?!

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 20:36

Hopefully, one of the good folk here will have a solution for you, but the S1has a reputation for very poor DVD playback capabilities.
If it has a problem and is returned for warranty, seriously consider getting a P1/P2 and a standalone DVD player.
There is some work being done to improve the DVD capabilities via firmware upgrade - still not released. However, this sounds like a hardware problem to me - if the discs play on other machines.

BTW, what format did you burn with your DVD recorder - hopefully DVD-Video, NOT DVD-VR

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 23:10

Also what version of firmware are you using?

prl · Post by **prl** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 06:45

"Won't play" isn't very descriptive. Can you say what kind of errors you get?

I've found the DP-S1 to be a bit unreliable on burnt CDs and DVDs.

NorvilBob · Post by **NorvilBob** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 16:19

Thanks for all your responses. I've got some further information, and to answer your questions (not necessarily in order):

I loaded the latest DP-S1 firmware (about a week ago) - DPS1-01.05.301

When the burnt DVD-RW was loaded the first time the message initially said "Access Error Temporarliy Unavailable" after a few seconds this went off the screen but "No Disc Present" came up when I selected "DVD".

I've checked the Pioneer DVD recorder's instruction manual and fnd that the default recording mode is -VR. The manual also said that the -VR recorded disc needs to be "Finalised" before being able to be played in other players. Luckily I've still got the device, so I loaded one of the recorded DVDs and went through the finalisation process.

Now the DPS1 will recognise there's a disc present and shows the folder content as "DVD_RTAV" when I select "DVD". When I press "OK" or the Play button however, nothing happens. The screen just toggles between the folder image of "DVD_RTAV" and the directory heading which is ":/DVD_RTAV/" but nothing plays.

I've tried the finalised DVD in an NAD AV Receiver with inbuilt DVD player - the same thing happens.

Any ideas?

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 16:36

Hi NorvilBob,

It sounds like this disk is in some sort of proprietary format. You may need to find some sort of converter to make the DVDs usable by other devices.

Regards,
Ian.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 16:39

Does the disc have the conventional VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders? Maybe you need to rip the VOB files on your computer and make a conventional DVD not VR format.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-VR

The DVD-VR standard defines a logical format for video recording on DVD-R, DVD-RW, and DVD-RAM style media, including the dual layer versions of these media. As opposed to media recorded with the DVD+VR recording standard, the resulting media are not DVD Video compliant, and will not play back in some DVD Video players. Most DVD video recorders in the market that support DVD-R, DVD-RW, or DVD-RAM media will allow recording to these media in DVD-VR mode, as well as in a DVD Video compliant mode.

The standard was introduced in 1999 by the DVD Forum, and licensing is managed by the DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation [1]. For each of the supported media, the full recording standard consists of three parts being: Physical Specifications (Part 1), File System Specifications (Part 2), and the Video Recording Specifications (Part 3).

This might help
http://www.mediostream.com/Products/ind ... actor.html

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 17:02

Or check if your recorder allows standard DVDs to be created for any future recordings you create.

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 18:08

The VR format is often not playable in older DVD players. However, your Pioneer manual would (or should) have warned you of this incompatability.
The advantage of the VR format is being 'editable' - recover space/cut adverts etc. This is at the expense of compatability.
Having said that, it would be reasonable to expect a 'new' DVD player to handle this format as it is common across many brands of DVD recorders. All the players I've bought in the last few years can play VR. We know that the S1's DVD player is a cheap and nasty component and the firmware has a history of problems.
I'd be doing my best to find a reason to return the S1 for this reason - and the fact it won't play your recordings.

A quick google found this - among other links;

http://www.normediasolutions.com/guides ... _dvdvideo/

Good luck!

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 18:09

Gully wrote:Or check if your recorder allows standard DVDs to be created for any future recordings you create.

Pioneer DVD recorders (and all the others I've used - Sony, Sharp) allow burning in DVD Video mode.

NorvilBob · Post by **NorvilBob** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 18:19

Everything that everyone has said so far makes sense - and I think that the conclusion I'm coming to is that the DP-S1s DVD player is very ordinary - to be polite.

Some further information:

The DVD I'm trying to play has the following structure:

The folder is labelled as "VIDEO_RTAV"
The files are "VR_MANGR.IFO" and "VR_MOVIE.VRO"

I can't get past the VIDEO_RTAV folder to get to the .VRO file in the DPS1, but when I put the same disc into the DVD burner / player in my PC at work it opens and plays just fine. I then tried a DVD that I'd burnt on the Pioneer receorder that I hadn't "Finalised" i.e. was still in VR format - and this played OK also! The cheap DVD drive in my PC copes perfectly welI. I guess I'll just have to buy a seperate DVD player. I didn't want to do this because I hate having all these separate devices and controls.

The DPS1 is on trial so I can return it, but the price is good (ex-demo unit for $550). The question is, if I have to get a separate DVD player - are the DP-P1 and DP-P2 better PVR units - and in what respect? My main selection criteria are:
Image and sound quality
Intuitive user interface & easy to use remote control (larger buttons would be good)
Ability to archive - transferring to hard drive via front USB is great - but so is burning to DVD.

Any recommendations on the PVR (Beyonwiz - Topfield - Tivo?) or DVD player?

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 19:59

I think the title of your post should be changed to S1 Won't play VR Format rather than DVD-RW discs per se. The regular DVD format has a collection of files with BUP, IFO and VOB suffixes contained in a folder called VIDEO_TS. This is what you would make if you had used your PC or MAC to make a DVD archive and of course regular bought DVD's follow this format. I would be very careful in choosing a standalone DVD player that it will in-fact accept VR format and take along a few of your recordings to be sure. Personally I would be doing a conversion to regular format or ISO.

If you are returning the unit then either a P1 or P2 model have much the same menu and remote control layout as the S1. I'm very happy with my P1, now discontinued, however the P2 has the advantage of a built in A/V input if that's any value for you.

The disadvantage of all in one units like the S1 is if the DVD unit has a mechanical problem you lose everything whilst it's being repaired on the other hand a separate DVD player is relatively cheap these days and can easily be replaced without affecting your on air recording.

My wish list is for a unit like the P2 but with the system hard disk in a removable caddy rather than built in. But then I like clutter and components

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 21:06

netmask wrote:My wish list is for a unit like the P2 but with the system hard disk in a removable caddy rather than built in.

Have you checked out the new LG twin HD PVR? Don't know how good it is as a PVR, but it has the quick change HDD - great idea!

http://www.lge.com/au/tv-audio-video/vi ... MS409D.jsp

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 21:28

Paul55 wrote:
netmask wrote:My wish list is for a unit like the P2 but with the system hard disk in a removable caddy rather than built in.
Have you checked out the new LG twin HD PVR? Don't know how good it is as a PVR, but it has the quick change HDD - great idea!

http://www.lge.com/au/tv-audio-video/vi ... MS409D.jsp

Looks interesting "on paper" but LG doesn't have a good reputation for reliability and service from my experience but it does look good and no mention of Freeview..

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 09:53

netmask wrote:...
Looks interesting "on paper" but LG doesn't have a good reputation for reliability and service from my experience but it does look good and no mention of Freeview..

LG has signed up as a Freeview manufacturer (Products and Stockists link). I have no idea what (if any) Freeview compliant products thay have. For all Freeview's claims about it providing reassurance about digital HD products to consumers, the "big name" manufacturers who've signed up don't seem to make much of Freeview on their web sites, at least the last time I looked.

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 16:52

prl wrote:For all Freeview's claims about it providing reassurance about digital HD products to consumers, the "big name" manufacturers who've signed up don't seem to make much of Freeview on their web sites

They see it as the crock it is (and are big and brave enough to treat it as such). I reckon Freeview would have just about begged the big boys to join the list to give them a veneer of credibility.
It makes the 'try-hards' look a bit silly in their excited enthusiasm to jump on the Freeview bandwagon when the major players barely mention it.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 17:09

Change is slow in big companies. Just because you don't see LG shipping FreeView stickered boxes within a couple of months does not mean they won't do it. It's more likely that when they are ready, they'll just make the entire product range FreeView only. The "when" may be another 6-9 months from now.

j s · Post by **j s** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 23:40

netmask wrote:If you are returning the unit then either a P1 or P2 model have much the same menu and remote control layout as the S1. I'm very happy with my P1, now discontinued, however the P2 has the advantage of a built in A/V input if that's any value for you.

I believe the P2 also has more memory and uses SATA disks - both of which provide a bit more future protection.

Apart from the obvious difference of the optical drive and wireless LAN (plus a different appearance) the S1 and P1 have virtually identical specifications.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 09:02

j s wrote:...
I believe the P2 also has more memory and uses SATA disks - both of which provide a bit more future protection.
...

The S2 has more (16MB rather than 8MB) flash memory for firmware & configuration, but I think it has the same main memory (128MB total, 64MB reserved for video processing) as the other models.

NorvilBob · Post by **NorvilBob** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 17:18

Hello again folks,

I've got my head around the DP-S1 not playing DVD-VR discs, so on to the next issue: Image and sound quality.

I've got the DP-S1 hooked up to the Metz Milos 32 TV via a HDMI cable. The picture is sharp enough, but incredibly high contrast. All the detail in dark colours is lost. I've tried to fiddle with the brightness and contrast levels in both the Metz TV and the DP-S1 - but get less than satisfactory results. Nothing is as good as the original TV image through the Metz.

Is this a problem with the DP-S1 tuner, or the HDMI type connection? I don't get this problem with DVDs played through the NAD AV Receiver also connected to the Metz.

Is there a difference in image quality between the Beyonwiz, Topfield and Tivo PVRs? The DP-S1 is still on loan, so I have the opportunity to change to a different brand if I choose.

Another annoying thing is that the volume changes dramatically when you change betweeen live TV and recordings (even between recordings). What's happening here?

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 13:55

Hi NorvilBob,

NorvilBob wrote:I've got the DP-S1 hooked up to the Metz Milos 32 TV via a HDMI cable. The picture is sharp enough, but incredibly high contrast. All the detail in dark colours is lost. I've tried to fiddle with the brightness and contrast levels in both the Metz TV and the DP-S1 - but get less than satisfactory results. Nothing is as good as the original TV image through the Metz.

Is this a problem with the DP-S1 tuner, or the HDMI type connection? I don't get this problem with DVDs played through the NAD AV Receiver also connected to the Metz.

Is there a difference in image quality between the Beyonwiz, Topfield and Tivo PVRs? The DP-S1 is still on loan, so I have the opportunity to change to a different brand if I choose.

Is this the same on all the HDMI inputs on the TV? What happenes if you try a component connection? Have you tried a different TV? I don't believe I have heard of this issue before?

NorvilBob wrote:Another annoying thing is that the volume changes dramatically when you change betweeen live TV and recordings (even between recordings). What's happening here?

What are the audio settings and volume level on your unit? Have you tried the settings often suggested in this forum?

Regards,
Ian.