Alternative EPG

joeschwaa · Post by **joeschwaa** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 14:37

Hi there - I am very close to buying a P2 but I have a couple of queries. I have looked through the forums but have been unable to find the answer.

1) Can you pull the EPG data from somewhere other than IceTV or through the FTA DVB signal? eg. When using a Media Centre, you can get free guide data. Does the P2 give you the option of pointing at different data sources?

2) If not, how good is the FTA DVB EPG? (wow - a lot of acronyms!)

3) Failing all of these, with the Freeview service starting next year, does anyone know whether this will be an internet service EPG? And if so, will Beyonwiz allow you to point to this data, rather than Ice TV?

One further question on a different topic - the only thing I can see that is different between the P1 and P2 is the addition of a line input, and a larger hard drive.

Although I like the option of a line input, would I be just as well off buying a second hand P1 and whacking a larger hard drive in it?

Thanks in advance!

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 14:55

1) No, only those 2 options.
2) SBS is only current and next programs, guide is only populated with the channels you visit.
3) Too early to know.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 14:57

Freeview=speculation for anything too much, but don't expect normal PVRs to support it as freeview supposedly stipulates no skip buttons, only FF buttons (well, this is what the networks were pushing pre-freeview days, and TiVo got thru by doing just this).

EPG uploading=only ICE. I was going to look at the data and understand how to form xmltv into some format that the Wiz will accept, but why bother putting all that effort in when ICE works quite well.

FTA EPG=Ok, although SBS still only sends now&next and there is a lot of inconsistency with the data provided (e.g. uppercase, e.g. Nein with "MIDDAY MOVIE" instead of the movie title etc etc etc). See the myEPG push here on what the inadequacies of the FTA EPG is for example: http://www.myepg.com.au/
The Wiz doesn't cache the FTA EPG either, so you have to channel surf to get it in all channels, and once you power to standby, the current EPG is go (broadcasters typically update current days EPG on about a 10 or 15second cycle, the next 3 days on about a 20-30second cycle, and the remaining days up to 7 days on a >30second cycle).

P2 has more flash memory than the P1, and a SATA controller on board (and thus a SATA drive), so expect eventually the P2 to start seperating/differentiating what it offers compared to the x1 series. The x1 series has pretty much maxed out the flash memory, so adding nice sexy menus etc will just not be possible without changing the strategy for storage of menu systems (on the HDD for example), or simply providing the better look for the P2. But apart from that, they are the same, and so you won't lose much at the moment going for an x1 series.

Regards

joeschwaa · Post by **joeschwaa** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 15:13

Thanks very much for the very quick, very detailed and very informed replies!

You are very helpful.

I will end up getting the P2 - i wasn't aware of of the flash memory issue.

Thats a shame about the EPG - i guess i will wait to see what Freeview offers up. I just didn't want to have to pay for an EPG - I guess i am hardly unique in that.

SJ2571 · Post by **SJ2571** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 23:46

> I just didn't want to have to pay for an EPG

I used to pay for the Ice EPG before a reformat of my PC left me unable to fetch it anymore.
Nothing of my hardware changed -- I just lost my connection settings and have been unable
to restore them. So I've been using the FTA EPG instead, and haven't missed Ice at all.

I actually e-mailed Ice to see if they could help, but their advice was just general and didn't
go into specifics. I asked them for more info because I wouldn't be able to re-subscribe if
I can't use it, and have had no reply to date... it's been two weeks now. I guess they don't
want my money that badly.

Business 101 states that you should always try to hold onto
a customer as long as possible, but they don't seem to care, or willing to help.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 20:23

madmax wrote:1) No, only those 2 options.
2) SBS is only current and next programs, guide is only populated with the channels you visit.
3) Too early to know.

It is a pity that my DP-P2 did not have an alternative way of obtaining the EPG other than through ICETV or the FTA versions. I could never get my ICETV subscription recording tasks to sync RELIABLY with the Wiz, and both ICETV and Beyonwiz blamed each other over something to do with a DHCP timeout or refresh problem between the Beyonwiz/Router/ICETV. That left me with no alternative but to ditch the ICETV service, and fend for myself using the FTA version, which in this digital TV age is still abysmal. That does seriously limit the usefulness of the device - depending where you live. Regional Australia is still behind in broadcasting a EPG, or is the Wiz failing to process the EPG for certain regional channels?

Example: Wollongong Channels, ABC 1 and 2 do not broadcast the EPG on the frequency that I can receive. It does on other ABC 1 and 2 digital channels, but these are not well received at my location.

Geez, all I was thinking was: Go to a website, download the EPG in a WIZ friendly format daily, feed it into the Beyonwiz via a USB stick and bingo all is well and you have a 100% usable product. Is that really too much to ask in this Digital Age?

Cheers.

SJ2571 · Post by **SJ2571** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 21:17

> EPG uploading=only ICE. I was going to look at the data and understand how to form
> xmltv into some format that the Wiz will accept, but why bother putting all that effort in
> when ICE works quite well.

Why? Because it's important to not have a monopoly. Please do it.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 21:20

Hi Aussea,

I'm sorry that you appear to be having difficulties with your EPG but I fail to see how Beyonwiz or IceTV can be held responsible for network infrastructure errors that break the communications link between the two. There are too many users here that don't have an issue between their Beyonwiz and IceTV for this to be a generic problem. If you are not familiar with networking technology then perhaps you can read the networking topics on this forum, ask for some assistance here or get someone to come to your home and assist in resolving the networking issues.

I also find it strange that you blame Beyonwiz because the TV stations in your area appear to not be transmitting a FTA EPG. Perhaps you should be taking the issue of a missing EPG up with your local TV stations.

The Beyonwiz is one of a few PVRs that offers two sources of EPG. Your complaint about the lack of an inferior access method to EPG data (manually copying EPG data to a USB stick and manually updating the PVR every day) seems illogical. Given you are in a regional area that appears to be ill served by the FTA EPG I suggest that you explore fixing your network infrastructure and then giving IceTV another go.

Regards,
Ian.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 21:57

IanSav wrote:Hi Aussea,

I'm sorry that you appear to be having difficulties with your EPG but I fail to see how Beyonwiz or IceTV can be held responsible for network infrastructure errors that break the communications link between the two. There are too many users here that don't have an issue between their Beyonwiz and IceTV for this to be a generic problem. If you are not familiar with networking technology then perhaps you can read the networking topics on this forum, ask for some assistance here or get someone to come to your home and assist in resolving the networking issues.

I also find it strange that you blame Beyonwiz because the TV stations in your area appear to not be transmitting a FTA EPG. Perhaps you should be taking the issue of a missing EPG up with your local TV stations.

The Beyonwiz is one of a few PVRs that offers two sources of EPG. Your complaint about the lack of an inferior access method to EPG data (manually copying EPG data to a USB stick and manually updating the PVR every day) seems illogical. Given you are in a regional area that appears to be ill served by the FTA EPG I suggest that you explore fixing your network infrastructure and then giving IceTV another go.

Regards,
Ian.

Umm Ian, you can see by my post(s) that all of this gets rather frustrating for the average user. Having said that, I am very acquainted with network issues, and both ICETV and Beyonwiz agreed that my issue was very "unusual" - not my network failure or lack of understanding - but a quirk of some sort. ICETV placed a trace on the handshaking for a few weeks, and said that they would recommend a DHCP fix to Beyonwiz. It never materialized. So please do not accuse me of being accusative without cause.

On the EPG issue. IceTV did provide a good EPG that filled in the gaps, including the SBS shortfall . But the issue was handshaking (or lack thereof) over the record tasks that I set - it never quite sync'd. It left ICETV and Beyonwiz scratching their heads, with a resulting refund of a full year's ICETV subscription costs.

If my Toppy or Strong 5400 can get an EPG for Wollongong ABC 1 and 2 on the same usable UHF frequency that the Beyonwiz receives, why can't the Beyonwiz give me the same EPG data?

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 22:15

IanSav wrote:Hi Aussea,

I also find it strange that you blame Beyonwiz because the TV stations in your area appear to not be transmitting a FTA EPG. Perhaps you should be taking the issue of a missing EPG up with your local TV stations.

The Beyonwiz is one of a few PVRs that offers two sources of EPG. Your complaint about the lack of an inferior access method to EPG data (manually copying EPG data to a USB stick and manually updating the PVR every day) seems illogical. Given you are in a regional area that appears to be ill served by the FTA EPG I suggest that you explore fixing your network infrastructure and then giving IceTV another go.

Regards,
Ian.

Issue: Beyonwiz EPG data not formed for some regional channels: More specifically Ian (or anyone for that matter), as an example, can you tell me why my Toppy and Strong decoders receive a full EPG for Wollongong ABC2 (Channel 51 @690.5 MHZ) yet my Beyonwiz displays zilch EPG data for this Wollongong ABC2 frequency? This renders my product virtually useless at this point. But I am hopeful....

Is there something that I can do to tweak this and that to get it? Or could it be a rectifiable rudimentary fix that should have been included before all of this other "upgrade" stuff in firmware.280? Beyonwiz needs to take care of its regional customers too please. Cheers.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 23:07

Hi Aussea,

Your first posts imply that the FTA EPG was not transmitted. Now that you say that other devices can receive the EPG from the same channels then this matter should be referred, by telephone, to Beyonwiz Australia for resolution. I am unaware of *any* other reports of the FTA being broadcast and the Beyonwiz being unable to recognise the data. This is not an issue that can be resolved by customer tweaking.

As for the networking issues, I'm sorry but I don't see how DHCP problems can have anything to do with your problem. I don't see how or why IceTV would be advising Beyonwiz on needs to change or fix DHCP. If DHCP was an issue then hard coding your network parameters would eliminate the need for DHCP all together, this should then have resolved your networking issue.

Regards,
Ian.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 23:10

aussea wrote:ICETV placed a trace on the handshaking for a few weeks, and said that they would recommend a DHCP fix to Beyonwiz. It never materialized.

That does not sound right. The closest thing I can think of would be that your Internet connection has issues with Path MTU Discovery due to a badly configured firewall/router somewhere between your Beyonwiz and IceTV. If that is the case, I don't see how that IceTV response would be relevant though.

If you are on a broadband connection, try changing your router connection settings from PPPoE to PPPoA. That can often solve MTU issues, since you do not lose 8 bytes of every packet to protocol encapsulation. If you have to have PPPoE, ensure that the router MTU is set to a value no larger than 1492.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 23:19

IanSav wrote:Hi Aussea,

Your first posts imply that the FTA EPG was not transmitted. Now that you say that other devices can receive the EPG from the same channels then this matter should be referred, by telephone, to Beyonwiz Australia for resolution. I am unaware of *any* other reports of the FTA being broadcast and the Beyonwiz being unable to recognise the data. This is not an issue that can be resolved by customer tweaking.

As for the networking issues, I'm sorry but I don't see how DHCP problems can have anything to do with your problem. I don't see how or why IceTV would be advising Beyonwiz on needs to change or fix DHCP. If DHCP was an issue then hard coding your network parameters would eliminate the need for DHCP all together, this should then have resolved your networking issue.

Regards,
Ian.

OK Ian, disbelief rules. Correction: I ASSUMED the EPG was not transmitted in a format that the Beyonwiz understood because I didn't get it. Let me see if I can get a log history from ICETV regarding the DHCP and handshaking issue. Wish me luck. ICETV and Beyonwiz went through everything with me on the phone a couple of months ago on this issue.

Meanwhile, for others I wonder if they are too having (regional) EPG problems with (if not then it must be my Beyonwiz and as you say I will need to get it to service):
Channel 54 SBS World News 711.5 MHZ. No data. Channel 51 ABC HDTV 690.5MHZ. No data. ABC1 Channel 51 690.5 MHZ. No data. ABC2 Channel 51, 690.5 MHZ no data.

Cheers.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 23:20

peteru wrote:
aussea wrote:ICETV placed a trace on the handshaking for a few weeks, and said that they would recommend a DHCP fix to Beyonwiz. It never materialized.
That does not sound right. The closest thing I can think of would be that your Internet connection has issues with Path MTU Discovery due to a badly configured firewall/router somewhere between your Beyonwiz and IceTV. If that is the case, I don't see how that IceTV response would be relevant though.

If you are on a broadband connection, try changing your router connection settings from PPPoE to PPPoA. That can often solve MTU issues, since you do not lose 8 bytes of every packet to protocol encapsulation. If you have to have PPPoE, ensure that the router MTU is set to a value no larger than 1492.

Thank you for this advice Peter.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 23:30

Hi Aussea,

aussea wrote:OK Ian, disbelief rules. Correction: I ASSUMED the EPG was not transmitted in a format that the Beyonwiz understood because I didn't get it.

There is a very specific Australia standard for the format for the EPG data. Manufacturers must follow the standard or their device does not work here. There have been issues with the interpretation of the standard that has lead to some EPG issues for some manufacturers but that normally does not mean that the EPG totally fails to appear.

aussea wrote:Let me see if I can get a log history from ICETV regarding the DHCP and handshaking issue. Wish me luck. ICETV and Beyonwiz went through everything with me on the phone a couple of months ago on this issue.

I don't suggest that you look backward but move forward in sorting out your local network and then the IceTV/Beyonwiz issues should just go away. Peter's suggestions are very good and should be explored.

Regards,
Ian.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 23:35

aussea wrote:SBS World News, ABC HDTV --- No data.

As far as I know, neither of these services have the EIT data sent within their SI sections. I don't think the EIT data for those services is carried with the main services either, but I'd have to do a raw capture and pump it through the analyser to be sure.

ABC1, ABC2 --- No data.

These ought to have the EPG embedded and have anywhere from 1 to 7 days worth of data (ABC fall back from full 7 days every now and then). It is possible that your local ABC may have issues that prevent correct operation.

If you have the chance to use two brands of PVR side by side, try rebooting them both at the same time and then compare the behaviour. Any information you can gather will help with getting your problem sorted. Obviously the greatest difficulty for the engineers and support people is finding a fix for a problem that they can not see. Good input from people who are affected goes a long way towards being able to provide fixes. It may seem tedious and frustrating, repeating some tests, but when it gets fixed you can feel proud in knowing that they couldn't have done it without you.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 23:46

peteru wrote:
aussea wrote:SBS World News, ABC HDTV --- No data.
As far as I know, neither of these services have the EIT data sent within their SI sections. I don't think the EIT data for those services is carried with the main services either, but I'd have to do a raw capture and pump it through the analyser to be sure.

ABC1, ABC2 --- No data.
These ought to have the EPG embedded and have anywhere from 1 to 7 days worth of data (ABC fall back from full 7 days every now and then). It is possible that your local ABC may have issues that prevent correct operation.

If you have the chance to use two brands of PVR side by side, try rebooting them both at the same time and then compare the behaviour. Any information you can gather will help with getting your problem sorted. Obviously the greatest difficulty for the engineers and support people is finding a fix for a problem that they can not see. Good input from people who are affected goes a long way towards being able to provide fixes. It may seem tedious and frustrating, repeating some tests, but when it gets fixed you can feel proud in knowing that they couldn't have done it without you.

Thanks Peter. I will line four suspects up in the morning. My Strong 5400 (HD which receives all of these EPG "no shows") The Topfield SD (gets all of 'em) and my housemate's Samsung SD DTB9401F (a very early DTR) which gets all of 'em, alongside my PVR Beyonwiz (hooked up to the Sony Bravia via HDMI) which presently gets none of 'em. Thank you. Regards.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 07:29

Do any of those other set tops cache the free to air EPG? A potential explanation for the difference is that perhaps that broadcaster (ABC/SBS/etc) has a technical problem and hasn't been sending the EPG for the past few days, but any STB that was on a while ago and caches all the 5-7days sent will still have some EPG left in the buffer to show you. I guess the way to verify this is the case is simply to switch the unit off, then switch it on, wait one minute, don't channel surf, and then see if the guide is filled with entries (probably cached in that case, and/or that PVR does something funky with the spare tuner to load up the EPG, highly unlikely), or only the current channel has EPG (and the couple of shared channels from that broadcaster that are sent in the same mux), in which case it isn't cached and there may be a technical issue with any STB that doesn't show it. The wiz doesn't cache FTA EPG.
Also if the broadcaster changes any parameters in their broadcast, perhaps the Wiz isn't picking up the change properly. Can you delete all the channels that the Wiz doesn't have EPG for, and do a rescan? I would suggest to do a factory reset and then rescan, but this would involve ensuring you put all your networking and other parameters in.
Deleting is done by ensuring you aren't in a favourites group, and while in live TV, press the list button and follow the prompts.
Regards

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 08:04

tonymy01 wrote:Do any of those other set tops cache the free to air EPG? A potential explanation for the difference is that perhaps that broadcaster (ABC/SBS/etc) has a technical problem and hasn't been sending the EPG for the past few days, but any STB that was on a while ago and caches all the 5-7days sent will still have some EPG left in the buffer to show you. I guess the way to verify this is the case is simply to switch the unit off, then switch it on, wait one minute, don't channel surf, and then see if the guide is filled with entries (probably cached in that case, and/or that PVR does something funky with the spare tuner to load up the EPG, highly unlikely), or only the current channel has EPG (and the couple of shared channels from that broadcaster that are sent in the same mux), in which case it isn't cached and there may be a technical issue with any STB that doesn't show it. The wiz doesn't cache FTA EPG.
Also if the broadcaster changes any parameters in their broadcast, perhaps the Wiz isn't picking up the change properly. Can you delete all the channels that the Wiz doesn't have EPG for, and do a rescan? I would suggest to do a factory reset and then rescan, but this would involve ensuring you put all your networking and other parameters in.
Deleting is done by ensuring you aren't in a favourites group, and while in live TV, press the list button and follow the prompts.
Regards

Thanks for this helpful post Tonymy01. I have done repetitive deletes and fresh rescans, and I performed the unit off and on routine. Hope this doesn't turn out too long winded.

With the unit off (switched off at the plug) and on this is what I found:

EPG Guide: I had been watching sunrise on 7. When I powered up the unit (didn't surf to anything) 7's EPG loaded up automatically and so did 7's HD channel.

One notable was I then surfed to one of the EPG-problematic ones - ABC 1 (the good one with no EPG = Channel 51 @ 690.5MHZ) and watched the reaction there. I have two ABC1 channels in the guide (one channel is the good one with no EPG - the other is the poor one WITH the ABC1 EPG = Channel 52 @ 697.5MHZ). When I selected the good one it automatically downloaded the EPG for the poor unwatchable one, and the poor Channel 2 as well. So what I have ended up with is one very watchable channel without an EPG, and another with it. So right now I just have to keep an eye on the bad one so that I can swing to record on the good one if you know what I mean. Not good enough.

I performed the rescan scenario and factory reset. No difference there. Cheers.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 08:11

aussea wrote:...
One notable was I then surfed to one of the EPG-problematic ones - ABC 1 (the good one with no EPG = Channel 51 @ 690.5MHZ) and watched the reaction there. I have two ABC1 channels in the guide (one channel is the good one with no EPG - the other is the poor one WITH the ABC1 EPG = Channel 52 @ 697.5MHZ). When I selected the good one it automatically downloaded the EPG for the poor unwatchable one, and the poor Channel 2 as well. So what I have ended up with is one very watchable channel without an EPG, and another with it. So right now I just have to keep an eye on the bad one so that I can swing to record on the good one if you know what I mean. Not good enough.

I performed the rescan scenario and factory reset. No difference there. Cheers.

Are the two ABC channels' services on the same set of LCNs? If they are, that may be the cause of FTA (and possibly also IceTV) EPG problems.

Have you tried deleting all the unwatchable ABC services, going back to standby, restarting and then seeing if the watchable ABC services get EPG? Don't rescan.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 08:32

prl wrote:
aussea wrote:...

Have you tried deleting all the unwatchable ABC services, going back to standby, restarting and then seeing if the watchable ABC services get EPG? Don't rescan.

Thank you prl. I followed your instructions. For ABC1 and ABC2 on the very watchable channels @ 690.5MHZ (strength and quality @ 99%) with all the unwatchables deleted I get nada. That is no EPG.

I will now have to do a rescan to get the unwatchable ones back so that I can monitor the content of the watchable ones. I am now guessing I have a hardware issue?

Cheers.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 08:33

One notable was I then surfed to one of the EPG-problematic ones - ABC 1 (the good one with no EPG = Channel 51 @ 690.5MHZ) and watched the reaction there. I have two ABC1 channels in the guide (one channel is the good one with no EPG - the other is the poor one WITH the ABC1 EPG = Channel 52 @ 697.5MHZ). When I selected the good one it automatically downloaded the EPG for the poor unwatchable one, and the poor Channel 2 as well.

Bingo!! Peter is right. Delete the poor channels. You will find that ABC probably uses the same PIDs for most of their data streams in different locations, and the Wiz is loading the EPG up for the LCN/PID of the bad channels, it is obvious from your explanation this is happening. To delete, simply hit list during normal TV viewing, and follow the onscreen prompts in the list window.
Also, the surfing experiments I was talking about was for your other STBs, to prove if they cache the FTA EPG or not (so when taken out of standby, they will show the EPG for all channels if they cache it). But doesn't matter, your explanation is perfect, isolating the issue.
edit: oh, you posted in the meantime.
Ok. Try this. Delete ALL ABC channels (including duplicates, ABC3's, is there radio channels also to delete?)
Now go to the scanning screen, and do a selective scan for channel 51 only. How does this look?
Also, are you sure the working set top boxes for ABC are on channel 51? Maybe they are 52, and the Wiz is just unlucky to have poorer reception for 52 (as per the reception threads)?
Regard

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 08:48

Hi Tony,

Aussea has just contradicted this expected resolution. Something does not appear right here.

Regards,
Ian.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 08:49

(Are the two ABC channels' services on the same set of LCNs? If they are, that may be the cause of FTA (and possibly also IceTV) EPG problems.)

Please note that when I was running ICETV a couple of months ago the EPG downloaded fine for ALL channels. I have had problems with the EPG since then (tried a reset and flushed the Ice Guide). I had to cancel the ICETV service because the Beyonwiz was apparently not handshaking properly throughout the day on the record tasks assigned to it and deleted from it. There were syncing issues. The ICETV tech sat there on the phone with me when I was tweaking this and that with the network settings and he watched the packets come through.

So for all those doubters out there yes, I did have a network up and running and "kinda" working with the ICETV subscription. Working through those issues arrived at a dead end with both ICETV and Beyonwiz. It is not as though I did not try. That is why I have brought these issues to this forum "after giving it a go". To seek answers from other users.

Geez, this HAS turned out to be rocket science, and way beyond the average customer to manage. I loath to lose my PVR to Beyonwiz's repair department for a few weeks for nothing, that is why I am working through every scenario. That is the function of this forum.

Just as an aside, there is a leftover "device name" in there for the ICETV setup and I can't delete it. That would not have any bearing on this would it?

Thank you once again.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 09:00

tonymy01 wrote:
edit: oh, you posted in the meantime.
Ok. Try this. Delete ALL ABC channels (including duplicates, ABC3's, is there radio channels also to delete?)
Now go to the scanning screen, and do a selective scan for channel 51 only. How does this look?
Also, are you sure the working set top boxes for ABC are on channel 51? Maybe they are 52, and the Wiz is just unlucky to have poorer reception for 51 (as per the reception threads)?
Regard

The Wiz does fine with the channel 51 @ 690.5MHZ signal on my box. It just does not bring down the EPG. It brings it down for Channel 52, but the signal is very poor @ that frequency. The other set top boxes (3) in the house are my marker on Channel 51. They download the EPG'S effortlessly across the board. I only wish the Beyonwiz would, and that would mean my product works as advertised. I have had it since September. Like I say, I obviously have a crippled Beyonwiz, and at Christmas time that does not please me, hence the frustration. Cheers.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 09:09

Hi Aussea,

Has the firmware version had any impact on your Beyonwiz's ability to access the FTA EPG on the stronger signal?

Regards,
Ian.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 09:17

I would not suggest doing a full scan, as this will pull down the poor 52 and perhaps confuse the Wiz again. Delete anything that you are receiving on 51 and 52. Then do a partial scan and just have 51 only in the partial scan. My previous post had a typo, I fixed that now (regarding 51 vs 52).
Regards

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 09:42

aussea wrote:...
Geez, this HAS turned out to be rocket science, and way beyond the average customer to manage. I loath to lose my PVR to Beyonwiz's repair department for a few weeks for nothing, that is why I am working through every scenario. That is the function of this forum.

Just as an aside, there is a leftover "device name" in there for the ICETV setup and I can't delete it. That would not have any bearing on this would it?

Thank you once again.

Unfortunately, I'm not in an area where I can get both Sydney and Woolongong transmissions. I agree that the Beyonwiz can have problems with areas where there are two channels broadcasting on the same LCNs, and possibly also the same PIDs (Program IDs). It's definitely a bit messy to deal with the problem.

If this is the cause of your problem, you definitely don't want to do a full scan after deleting services, because it will just reintroduce the problems.

What Tony suggests is probably the right way to go. The simplest solution depends on how many duplicate broadcasts you see.

If you see channels from both Sydney and Wollongong for most of the broadcasters:

Do a full scan, and note down the channels that give you the best reception for each broadcaster.
Clear all scanned services. (Restart?)
Do a partial scan for each channel you found gave the best reception in 1. (Restart?)
Test the EPG on all the services you've scanned

If you only see channels from both Sydney and Wollongong for a couple of broadcasters:

Do a full scan, and note down the channels that give you the best reception for each broadcaster for any repeated channels.
Delete all the services for both the Sydney and Woolongong broadcasts on each repeated channel. (Restart?)
Do a partial scan for the channel that gives you the best reception for the set(s) of services you deleted.
Test the EPG on all your services.

Where I've written (Restart?), shutting down to Standby and restarting might be useful in making sure that the service information the Beyonwiz is exactly what you want.

The aim of the incantations is to make sure that you have just one channel configured in the Beyonwiz for each broadcaster you want to receive.

If this fixes your FTA EPG problems, it may also fix the problems for IceTV. In the case of IceTV, you should ensure that all the channels you have on the Beyonwiz are from one of either Sydney or Woolongong, and your region setting for your IceTV account is for the matching region.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 09:49

I am going to take an uneducated guess that if the Wiz even just has one channel from a different broadcaster, the tables stored for the other channel details from that same broadcaster will still be there, and so just deleting the duplicate LCN2 won't be enough. This will likely work for ICE, but not for getting broadcast EIT. So *all* channels that both ABCs broadcast should be deleted, including any of the radio channels that they send. Ensure you aren't in a favourites group so you don't miss any. Then do a partial scan of just the suitable frequency (RF 51 in this case).
The hint that this is the issue is the "when watching ABC on RF 51 only, I see the EPG data fills in ABC on RF52" (paraphrased there, sorry, but this is my interpretation of a key point you made earlier which explains the issue fairly well). This is likely because there is tables and the like to match EIT with LCNs, and maybe Beyonwiz might want to add RF channel number into the table also to avoid this "quirk" you are seeing I think, but you can eliminate your issues for the time being by removing everything you receive off RF channel 52 which will remove all evidence of any tables related to that multiplex.
Regards

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:07

tonymy01 wrote:I am going to take an uneducated guess that if the Wiz even just has one channel from a different broadcaster, the tables stored for the other channel details from that same broadcaster will still be there, and so just deleting the duplicate LCN2 won't be enough. ...

I've edited my suggestion to try to make that clearer. I've found it hard to describe what to do in a way that can be generalised to all the repeated channels.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:17

tonymy01 wrote:I am going to take an uneducated guess that if the Wiz even just has one channel from a different broadcaster, the tables stored for the other channel details from that same broadcaster will still be there, and so just deleting the duplicate LCN2 won't be enough. This will likely work for ICE, but not for getting broadcast EIT. So *all* channels that both ABCs broadcast should be deleted, including any of the radio channels that they send. Ensure you aren't in a favourites group so you don't miss any. Then do a partial scan of just the suitable frequency (RF 51 in this case).
The hint that this is the issue is the "when watching ABC on RF 51 only, I see the EPG data fills in ABC on RF52" (paraphrased there, sorry, but this is my interpretation of a key point you made earlier which explains the issue fairly well). This is likely because there is tables and the like to match EIT with LCNs, and maybe Beyonwiz might want to add RF channel number into the table also to avoid this "quirk" you are seeing I think, but you can eliminate your issues for the time being by removing everything you receive off RF channel 52 which will remove all evidence of any tables related to that multiplex.
Regards

Tonymy01. NOW WE ARE TALKING! You should get an award, but you don't deserve it just yet. Let me report this result:

I deleted ALL services off the "LIST"

I previously made sure there was no redundant stuff sitting around on the FAV list or the music channels. What that "LIST" purge triggered was a dump into the "Config/service" scan screen. As you advised, I limited the scan to channel 51 only (the good reception frequency WITHOUT the EPG). PRESTO! The EPG downloaded for Channel 51 across the board! ABC1 ABC2 ABC HD ABC3 etc.

Now I am going back to force a scan limiting it to the Channels 36-54 (which are my local receiving channels - don't get Sydney digital) to see if it still honors the Channel 51 EPG download. I will report back.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:26

aussea wrote:
tonymy01 wrote:I am going to take an uneducated guess that if the Wiz even just has one channel from a different broadcaster, the tables stored for the other channel details from that same broadcaster will still be there, and so just deleting the duplicate LCN2 won't be enough. This will likely work for ICE, but not for getting broadcast EIT. So *all* channels that both ABCs broadcast should be deleted, including any of the radio channels that they send. Ensure you aren't in a favourites group so you don't miss any. Then do a partial scan of just the suitable frequency (RF 51 in this case).
The hint that this is the issue is the "when watching ABC on RF 51 only, I see the EPG data fills in ABC on RF52" (paraphrased there, sorry, but this is my interpretation of a key point you made earlier which explains the issue fairly well). This is likely because there is tables and the like to match EIT with LCNs, and maybe Beyonwiz might want to add RF channel number into the table also to avoid this "quirk" you are seeing I think, but you can eliminate your issues for the time being by removing everything you receive off RF channel 52 which will remove all evidence of any tables related to that multiplex.
Regards
Tonymy01. NOW WE ARE TALKING! You should get an award, but you don't deserve it just yet. Let me report this result:

I deleted ALL services off the "LIST"

I previously made sure there was no redundant stuff sitting around on the FAV list or the music channels. What that "LIST" purge triggered was a dump into the "Config/service" scan screen. As you advised, I limited the scan to channel 51 only (the good reception frequency WITHOUT the EPG). PRESTO! The EPG downloaded for Channel 51 across the board! ABC1 ABC2 ABC HD ABC3 etc.

Now I am going back to force a scan limiting it to the Channels 36-54 (which are my local receiving channels - don't get Sydney digital) to see if it still honors the Channel 51 EPG download. I will report back.

Don't rescan 36-54! That will reload both 51 and 52 and you'll probably go right back to where you were before. You should be able to get what you want by clearing all services (SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information) then just scanning 34-51. Don't scan both 51 and 52! Ever!

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:07

(Don't rescan 36-54! That will reload both 51 and 52 and you'll probably go right back to where you were before. You should be able to get what you want by clearing all services (SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information) then just scanning 34-51. Don't scan both 51 and 52! Ever!

[/quote]))

Ooops. So I did as you advised above. YES, I have now the EPG for the ABC channels across the very watchable Channel 51 (690.5MHZ) band.

However, the downside is, as I have limited the scan I cannot now get SBS at all, which sat on Channel 54 @ 711.5 with its "thin on the ground" EPG.

CORRECTION: SO to quote WIZ tonymy01: "This is likely because there are tables and the like to match EIT with LCNs, and maybe Beyonwiz might want to add RF channel number into the table also to avoid this "quirk" you are seeing I think, but you can eliminate your issues for the time being by removing everything you receive off RF channel 52 which will remove all evidence of any tables related to that multiplex"

Beyonwiz need to do some work to help us refine the EPG for my region (Wollongong) it seems? The EPG problem just does not only affect Wollongong channel 51 but others: Channel 54 SBS World News 711.5 MHZ. No data. Channel 51 ABC HDTV 690.5MHZ. No data. ABC1 Channel 51 690.5 MHZ. No data. ABC2 Channel 51, 690.5 MHZ no data.

Hey, thanks so so much for really nailing this down further and demonstrating an enhancement I think Beyonwiz may be able to offer me, and perhaps some of it's other regional customers. I feel a bit vindicated by going on like a headless chook on here now. Though I have lost my head in the process and now SBS.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:11

When you do a partial scan, you can set the start and end channel to be the same. To get SBS back, just scan with both start and end set to the RF channel that broadcasts SBS in your area.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:25

peteru wrote:When you do a partial scan, you can set the start and end channel to be the same. To get SBS back, just scan with both start and end set to the RF channel that broadcasts SBS in your area.

tonymy01, prl, peteru, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All is sweet.

peterru, I did not realize I could APPEND specific channel searches. Good to know. That did not stand out to me in the standard manual.

Now I have a workable and full FTA EPG for the first time thanks to the forum. Combining all of your advice, I am now VERY happy the EPG is resolved for me for now. Now, if there is any good firmware upgrade advice that promotes "EPG user friendliness" that can be advanced to Beyonwiz (yes, I am a little challenged) please encapsulate it, cause it has taken me pages of diatribe to encapsulate my fundamental EPG frustration with Wollongong EPG for Channel 52. Cheers.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:57

aussea wrote:
prl wrote:(Don't rescan 36-54! That will reload both 51 and 52 and you'll probably go right back to where you were before. You should be able to get what you want by clearing all services (SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information) then just scanning 34-51. Don't scan both 51 and 52! Ever!
))

Ooops. So I did as you advised above. YES, I have now the EPG for the ABC channels across the very watchable Channel 51 (690.5MHZ) band.

However, the downside is, as I have limited the scan I cannot now get SBS at all, which sat on Channel 54 @ 711.5 with its "thin on the ground" EPG.

I must have misread your posts. I should have looked at exactly what channels were available to you and seen you needed to scan channel 54 (by itself) as well.

aussea wrote:SO to quote your good self: "This is likely because there are tables and the like to match EIT with LCNs, and maybe Beyonwiz might want to add RF channel number into the table also to avoid this "quirk" you are seeing I think, but you can eliminate your issues for the time being by removing everything you receive off RF channel 52 which will remove all evidence of any tables related to that multiplex"

Beyonwiz need to do some work to help us refine the EPG for my region (Wollongong) it seems? The EPG problem just does not only affect Wollongong channel 51 but others: Channel 54 SBS World News 711.5 MHZ. No data. Channel 51 ABC HDTV 690.5MHZ. No data. ABC1 Channel 51 690.5 MHZ. No data. ABC2 Channel 51, 690.5 MHZ no data.

Hey, thanks so so much for really nailing this down further and demonstrating an enhancement I think Beyonwiz may be able to offer me, and perhaps some of it's other regional customers. I feel a bit vindicated by going on like a headless chook on here now. Though I have lost my head in the process and now SBS.

The good self you're quoting is another good self from your first quote.

The problem is being caused when the Beyonwiz scans two channels for the same two broadcasters. It's not specific to the ABC.

It's also been a bit confusing that you've been talking about getting stations from Sydney, when the main broadcasts from Sydney, Artarmon/Willoughby/Gore Hill don't broadcast on any of channels 51, 52 and 54.

The two lots of transmitters you appear to be seeing are Wollongong:
WIN (WIN) chan 40
Ten (CTC) chan 43
Prime (CBN) chan 46
ABC (ABWN) chan 52
SBS (SBS) chan 54

and Illawarra:
WIN (WIN) chan 36
Ten (CTC) chan 37
Prime (CBN) chan 38
ABC (ABWN) chan 51
SBS (SBS) chan 54

It appears that you get better signal from the Illawarra transmitters (certainly that's what you say for ABC).

To get just the Illawarra transmitters:

Clear all services (SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information)
Do a partial scan channels 36-38
Do a partial scan channel 51
Do a partial scan channel 54

If you just want to get the Wollongong transmitters:

Clear all services (SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information)
Do a partial scan channels 40-46
Do a partial scan channels 52-54

The Wollongong transmitters are at Escarpment Rd Broker's Nose, on the escarpment behind northern Wollongong. The Illawarra transmitters are on Knight's Hill on the escarpment behind Shellharbour. The Illawarra transmitters are all more than 200 times more powerful than the Wollongong transmitters (250kW vs 1.2kW).

The ABC has reception quality maps for the Illawarra and Wollongong transmitters on their web site. The other transmitters will have similar coverage. The coverage patterns are quite complicated, especially for the Illawarra transmitters, so without knowing your rough location, it's hard to recommend which transmitters to use, but from what you've said, the Illawarra transmitters are probably the best to try.

It's also possible to pick and choose between the transmitters if you get the best reception on some channels from one, and the best reception on other channels from the other. You don't have to take all channels from the same transmitter.

The Golden Rule is: only scan one channel for each broadcaster. The real situation is a bit more complex, but if you follow that rule, you'll probably be OK with the EPG.

aussea · Post by **aussea** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:21

The two lots of transmitters you appear to be seeing are Wollongong:
WIN (WIN) chan 40
Ten (CTC) chan 43
Prime (CBN) chan 46
ABC (ABWN) chan 52
SBS (SBS) chan 54

and Illawarra:
WIN (WIN) chan 36
Ten (CTC) chan 37
Prime (CBN) chan 38
ABC (ABWN) chan 51
SBS (SBS) chan 54

It appears that you get better signal from the Illawarra transmitters (certainly that's what you say for ABC).

To get just the Illawarra transmitters:
Clear all services (SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information)

Do a partial scan channels 36-38

Do a partial scan channel 51

Do a partial scan channel 54
If you just want to get the Wollongong transmitters:
Clear all services (SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information)

Do a partial scan channels 40-46

Do a partial scan channel 52-54
The Wollongong transmitters are at Escarpment Rd Broker's Nose, on the escarpment behind northern Wollongong. The Illawarra transmitters are on Knight's Hill on the escarpment behind Shellharbour. The Illawarra transmitters are all more than 200 times more powerful than the Wollongong transmitters (250kW vs 1.2kW).

The ABC has reception quality maps for the Illawarra and Wollongong transmitters on their web site. The other transmitters will have similar coverage. The coverage patterns are quite complicated, especially for the Illawarra transmitters, so without knowing your rough location, it's hard to recommend which transmitters to use, but from what you've said, the Illawarra transmitters are probably the best to try.

It's also possible to pick and choose between the transmitters if you get the best reception on some channels from one, and the best reception on other channels from the other. You don't have to take all channels from the same transmitter.

The Golden Rule is: only scan one channel for each broadcaster. The real situation is a bit more complex, but if you follow that rule, you'll probably be OK with the EPG.

Many thanks prl. Great advice!

I guess I am one of those who had come to rely on the stock standard scans that my DTR's produced, that downloaded all EPG's for my area (Wollongong) at the one time whether duplicated or not, and then I culled back from there depending on signal strength. If there is a Beyonwiz code fix soon that allows us to do a generic range scan along these lines, without having to tweak and edit that would be great. Really appreciate it.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 13:51

Another happy forum customer! Great work everyone!

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 13:58

But this is a bug definitely worth highlighting. It is an unusual situation to get the exact same PIDs (and LCNs) on two different frequencies (maybe) and thus I think the Wiz should also be using the frequency/RF channel number to determine which EPG to populate out of the two received.
We will alert the relevant people on this problem (MadMax

)
Regards

Post by **Wiz Support** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 15:58

tonymy01 wrote:But this is a bug definitely worth highlighting. It is an unusual situation to get the exact same PIDs (and LCNs) on two different frequencies (maybe) and thus I think the Wiz should also be using the frequency/RF channel number to determine which EPG to populate out of the two received.

Code: Select all

Area	  Callsign	  Chan	  Freq MHz	  Purpose	Polarisation	Site Name

Illawarra	 WIN36	 36	585.500	Commercial	H	New WIN tower KNIGHTS HILL
Illawarra	 CTC37	 37	592.500	Commercial	H	New WIN tower KNIGHTS HILL
Illawarra	 CBN38	 38	599.500	Commercial	H	New WIN tower KNIGHTS HILL
Illawarra	 ABWN51	51	690.500	National	  H	Broadcast Australia Digital Television Tower KNIGHTS HILL
Illawarra	 SBS54	 54	711.625	National	  H	Broadcast Australia Digital Television Tower KNIGHTS HILL


Wollongong	WIN40	 40	613.500	Commercial	H	Broadcast Site Escarpment Road BROKERS NOSE
Wollongong	CTC43	 43	634.500	Commercial	H	Broadcast Site Escarpment Road BROKERS NOSE
Wollongong	CBN46	 46	655.500	Commercial	H	Broadcast Site Escarpment Road BROKERS NOSE
Wollongong	ABWN52	52	697.500	National	  H	Broadcast Site Escarpment Road BROKERS NOSE
Wollongong	SBS54	 54	711.625	National	  H	Broadcast Site Escarpment Road BROKERS NOSE

cgm268 · Post by **cgm268** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 03:39

Have the same issue on the North Coast with 2 transmitters in Coffs Harbour area (Bruxner Park and Mt Moonbil). Caused me the same frustrations as Aussea has experienced with EPG's due to two frequencies wanting the same channel identity.
As tonymy01 suggests it may be something Beyonwiz want to look at.
Part of the problem I think is that unlike some other boxes the wiz wont let you customise channel identities eg up here the 2 abc frequencies will be stored but fight over the identity as chnnl 2, 20-23, Prime 6, 60-63.

KT Faith · Post by **KT Faith** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 04:41

"The Golden Rule is: only scan one channel for each broadcaster. The real situation is a bit more complex, but if you follow that rule, you'll probably be OK with the EPG."

As someone on the verge of purchasing a Beyonwiz DP-P2 I am glad I stumbled across this discussion. I have a similar problem to Aussea in that (on my topfield 5000) I receive "Wollongong" signals from both Knights Hill and Cambewarra, with the latter being the stronger (ABC 66, WIN 34, PRIME 43, SC10 40 and SBS 63). I have had issues in the past with TED/ Just EPG in receiving program data because of this. Should I follow the same advice as quoted above, and it is easy to scan that way?

A 2nd question, my preference for the P2 model (spotted at Harvey Norman yesterday at $798) is its purported ability to record (? analogue) input from Austar, which I would use as timers to record the occasional horse race from SKY or TVN. Does this work reliably?

Any advice appreciated. I would probably use the 3 month ICE trial that comes with the BW.

Regards
KT Faith/ John B.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 06:44

KT Faith wrote:"The Golden Rule is: only scan one channel for each broadcaster. The real situation is a bit more complex, but if you follow that rule, you'll probably be OK with the EPG."

As someone on the verge of purchasing a Beyonwiz DP-P2 I am glad I stumbled across this discussion. I have a similar problem to Aussea in that (on my topfield 5000) I receive "Wollongong" signals from both Knights Hill and Cambewarra, with the latter being the stronger (ABC 66, WIN 34, PRIME 43, SC10 40 and SBS 63). I have had issues in the past with TED/ Just EPG in receiving program data because of this. Should I follow the same advice as quoted above, and it is easy to scan that way?
...

Yes, the rule applies, and no, it's not difficult, and only a little tedious

If you get a P2, the instructions I gave aussea will apply, but with modifications. The simplest to explain is to clear all existing scans (not necessary for a new device out of the box) using SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information, and then when you scan set the scan mode to PARTIAL rather than full, then for each channel you want, set the Start Channel and End Channel to than number, select Start Scanning, and press OK. Do that for each channel you want. If you know which channels you want to avoid, then you may be able to do partial scans of blocks of channels (the start and end channels are inclusevs, so start 3, end 5 scans channels 3, 4 & 5), including blocks of the channels you want, and avoiding the ones you don't want. Have a look at my suggestion st aussea for an example (the specific numbers will probably be wrong for you).

I don't know exactly what the service scan procedure is for a TF5000, but the principle still holds; just scan one channel for each broadcaster.

whatgift · Post by **whatgift** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 07:15

I'm not sure whether this is relevant, but I found something the other day.
Where I'm living there are 2 seperate transmitter towers that I can receive from - one works for some channels, and the other works better for some.
I've found that I can tune in one channel, and it automatically replaces the one in that position (eg. ABC), so if one's not working I just scan the other frequency and it replaces it.

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 08:31

I would say it might be easier to do a full scan, then delete *every* channel on a frequency that you know isn't as good as the other (and include the radio channels). This way you can evaluate the RF channel reception of two of the same broadcasters.
When you look in the "list" view, it shows you the channel frequency/RF which makes this task easier.
Regards

KT Faith · Post by **KT Faith** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:38

prl wrote:
KT Faith wrote:"The Golden Rule is: only scan one channel for each broadcaster. The real situation is a bit more complex, but if you follow that rule, you'll probably be OK with the EPG."

As someone on the verge of purchasing a Beyonwiz DP-P2 I am glad I stumbled across this discussion. I have a similar problem to Aussea in that (on my topfield 5000) I receive "Wollongong" signals from both Knights Hill and Cambewarra, with the latter being the stronger (ABC 66, WIN 34, PRIME 43, SC10 40 and SBS 63). I have had issues in the past with TED/ Just EPG in receiving program data because of this. Should I follow the same advice as quoted above, and it is easy to scan that way?
...
Yes, the rule applies, and no, it's not difficult, and only a little tedious

If you get a P2, the instructions I gave aussea will apply, but with modifications. The simplest to explain is to clear all existing scans (not necessary for a new device out of the box) using SETUP>System>Initialize>Clear Service Information, and then when you scan set the scan mode to PARTIAL rather than full, then for each channel you want, set the Start Channel and End Channel to than number, select Start Scanning, and press OK. Do that for each channel you want. If you know which channels you want to avoid, then you may be able to do partial scans of blocks of channels (the start and end channels are inclusevs, so start 3, end 5 scans channels 3, 4 & 5), including blocks of the channels you want, and avoiding the ones you don't want. Have a look at my suggestion st aussea for an example (the specific numbers will probably be wrong for you).

I don't know exactly what the service scan procedure is for a TF5000, but the principle still holds; just scan one channel for each broadcaster.

Thanks for that, I also found by doing a partial scan for the local transmitter channels only solved the problem. Only missing EPG data for SBS HD (??) but present for its SD equivalent (is this "normal" for regional areas??).

regards and thanks PRL

John B/ KTF.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 16:30

KT Faith wrote:...
Thanks for that, I also found by doing a partial scan for the local transmitter channels only solved the problem. Only missing EPG data for SBS HD (??) but present for its SD equivalent (is this "normal" for regional areas??).

regards and thanks PRL

John B/ KTF.

I'm glad you've got it sorted. Here in the "regional" national capital

SBS has no FTA guide for SBS HD, either. This may be the same in metro areas, too. The programming is identical, so if you want to record something on SBS HD but still use the FTA EPG, go to the program you want, and press REC twice. This will bring up the timer edit panel. Just change the service from SBS to SBS HD.

SBS 'HD' is simply SBS's SD service either simply deinterlaced from 576i to 576p or deinterlaced and upscaled from 5761 to 720p (the video format of SBS HD is in transition, and I'm not sure where it's up to). If you can't tell the difference between SBS SD and SBS HD on your home setup, there's little point in recording SBS HD. In that case it just uses more disk space to no effect.

Half Round · Post by **Half Round** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 17:05

Found this email on the DTVforum :

SBS Broadcast Engineering is undergoing a full technical rebuild of its Play Out and Presentation facilities over the coming months.

Stage 1 works that encompassed a new Head End compression system that can efficiently multiplex the required bandwidth for 720p50 on our HD channel is now available to all markets with the exception of Darwin which will follow in the coming weeks due to transmission site issues. As part of these works, a new SI service is also available that has a 7 day EPG, however the current SBS Presentation automation system scheduled to be updated in Stage 3 has limited capacity as to the available amount of data to pass onto this.

Stage 2 works scheduled for early 2009 will involve transport stream changes in the ASI stream as more locations are added to our satellite distribution to allow SBS to address issues at various transmission sites. A large proportion of viewers will be required to retune their decoders to receive SBS services. An appropriate marketing campaign will advise viewers of this date.

Stage 3 works will see the replacement of the entire media chain and automation system to allow native HD content to pass from ingest through to the viewer. These works are in progress and will start to become available shortly after Stage 2.

SBS apologises for any inconvenience caused to our television viewers and radio listeners during these works.

SBS Broadcast Engineering

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