How different is V2 to the T2?

[robbo]

My history with Beyonwiz started with a DP-P2, which was, by and large brilliant. Then I went to a T2 which, has been disappointing. The options and programmability is brilliant but it's been an ongoing source of problems. The latest:
1. the video freezes while sound continues several times during playback
2. The spinner appears for anything up to 8 minutes - probably my autotimers over-driving the box - usually late evening.
3. About once a week I find it's lost all the station programs I can't select many stations from the guide until I step through each station to refresh.

I have no idea if I have a dud with faulty HDD or processor or what, but I am thinking of upgrading to a V2 (I think that's the latest). I have a few questions about the V2, just to confirm my understanding:
1. Is the firmware/programming similar to the T2?
2. Is the processor/RAM more powerful/larger such that I can hope to reduce the time the spinner appears while it checks my Auto Timer list?
3. Does it run with internal or external HDD/SSD, and if external, can I attach multiple HDD's via USB Cable?
4. Can I transfer my Auto Timer list to the V2 easily and keep all my existing recordings by just transferring the HDD from my T2, or do I need to reformat the HDD?

Any other helpful comments/suggestions/warnings welcome.

[MrQuade]

1. Is the firmware/programming similar to the T2?

Virtually identical from a user interface perspective.

2. Is the processor/RAM more powerful/larger such that I can hope to reduce the time the spinner appears while it checks my Auto Timer list?

It's a lot faster. But if you are seeing the spinner on the T2 then it's a good chance you have set up your auditionee incorrectly.

3. Does it run with internal or external HDD/SSD, and if external, can I attach multiple HDD's via USB Cable?

External HDDs via USB. You will need a USB hub if you want to attach multiple drives. The V2 has 2 USB ports (one USB2 and one USB3), but better to use a hub.
You can record to a network location like a NAS.
The V2 does have a microSD slot for limited onboard recording too.

4. Can I transfer my Auto Timer list to the V2 easily and keep all my existing recordings by just transferring the HDD from my T2, or do I need to reformat the HDD?

The HDD can be moved straight across into a USB external enclosure and plugged into the V2.

The Autotimers can be moved across, but it would be a manual procedure. There is no easy export/import option.
You may not want to copy them verbatim though (in reference to my earlier comment about incorrectly specified Autotimers).


As for things to look out for. Will, if you do end up connecting multiple HDDs, it can be a bit of a random game too know which one will end up becoming the primary "HDD". The V2 will enumerate the drives in an artery that depends on which port they are plugged into, of you are using a USB hub, how many drives you have plugged in at boot, and probably a whole host of other semi random factors.
It might be best to keep things simple.


Check the unofficial comparison guide for additional technical info.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=13269

[gibster]

Hi.

Mr. Quade answered most of your questions so I'll just throw in my 2cents worth on the V2.

I've had a T4, a T2 and now a V2. My favorite was the T4, but alas you can't get them anymore. The T2 ran extremely hot and that was with an SSD and not a HDD. I had freezing issues with it to. Ended up giving it away.

I've since replaced my T4 with a V2 with the external 2 tuner usb stick. After some initial issues which turned out to be a dying hard drive the box has been great. Runs very cool, and no issues what so ever. I liked the external appearance of the T4 but have gotten used to the V2 now and I'm sure in a month or two if things continue the way the are won't miss the T4 anymore.

Good Luck

Gib

[prl]

3. Does it run with internal or external HDD/SSD, and if external, can I attach multiple HDD's via USB Cable?

External HDDs via USB. You will need a USB hub if you want to attach multiple drives. The V2 has 2 USB ports (one USB2 and one USB3), but better to use a hub.
You can record to a network location like a NAS.
The V2 does have a microSD slot for limited onboard recording too.

The discovery order of USB HDDs is not fixed, and this can affect the names under which the HDDs are mounted. A multi-HDD setup may not work the way you want.

For example, if you don't use the microSD slot, and have a USB HDD attached to each of the USB2 and USB3 ports, the one on the USB2 port will usually (but not certainly) be discovered first, and be named /media/hdd, and the one in the USB3 port will be named /media/usb, even if you want the HDD on the USB3 port to be the main recording drive. If you shut down, and disconnect the drive in the USB2 slot, the drive in the USB3 slot will become /media/hdd when the system is restarted.

Having more than one USB storage device attached to a V2 may be more trouble than it's worth.

[robbo]

Thanks so much for your replies. Just a couple of clarifications please:
1).

it's a good chance you have set up your auditionee incorrectly

. What is auditionee? Not sure if that's just a mis-spell or something I don't know about.
2)

The V2 has 2 USB ports (one USB2 and one USB3)

I have a USB2 HDD case - do I need a USB3 or will the 2 suffice? How significant is the difference?
3) The unofficial comparison is a great resource. One difference I note between the T4 and V2 is that the V2 doesn't have a HDMI input (nor does my T2 so I am not losing anything). What is the practical limitation this imposes on the V2 compared to the T4?

Like gibster i've noticed the T2 running hot and wondered if that was partial cause of my problems in the past so I adapted a recycled CPU fan to to the vent to try to provide at least some additional cooling.

Thanks for the warning about the external drive issue. I was thinking of using a couple of the spare drives I have, but I will just stick to one.

One final new question. Can I use the external tuner that came with my T2 as a 3rd tuner in the V2 or am I better of buying a new one, and if I can use the one I have, can I buy another single tuner so as to have 4, or isn't the unit capable of handling 2 single extra tuners?

[MrQuade]

What is auditionee? Not sure if that's just a mis-spell or something I don't know about.

Sorry, Autotimers.
They shouldn't trigger spinners.

[prl]

Thanks so much for your replies. Just a couple of clarifications please:
1).

it's a good chance you have set up your auditionee incorrectly

. What is auditionee? Not sure if that's just a mis-spell or something I don't know about.

That's Trevor, MrQuade's phone's hyperactive autocorrect at work. It should be "AutoTimers". I don't know how Trevor got from "AutoTimers" to "auditionee".

2)

The V2 has 2 USB ports (one USB2 and one USB3)

I have a USB2 HDD case - do I need a USB3 or will the 2 suffice? How significant is the difference?

You should be able to plug the USB HDD case into either port, though it will be limited to USB2 speeds in both. If the case is USB powered, the USB3 port is a better option, because it can supply 1000mA vs the 500mA from the USB2 port.

3) The unofficial comparison is a great resource. One difference I note between the T4 and V2 is that the V2 doesn't have a HDMI input (nor does my T2 so I am not losing anything). What is the practical limitation this imposes on the V2 compared to the T4?

Thanks The practical limitation from not having a HDMI input is that you can't record from the HDMI output from other devices, or display that output via the V2.

Like gibster i've noticed the T2 running hot and wondered if that was partial cause of my problems in the past so I adapted a recycled CPU fan to to the vent to try to provide at least some additional cooling.

The V2 is also convection cooled, but it doesn't have the HDD in the enclosure, so the heat load may be less. The enclosure is smaller than the T2's. It's hard to guess what effect that would have on cooling capability.

Thanks for the warning about the external drive issue. I was thinking of using a couple of the spare drives I have, but I will just stick to one.

IMO, that's the configuration least likely to cause problems.

One final new question. Can I use the external tuner that came with my T2 as a 3rd tuner in the V2

You can. At various times, Beyonwiz has supplied both the small squarish black "MINI DBB" tuner (ITE 9135(9006)) and the "bluey" (RTL2838UHIDIR). Both will work in the V2. You can use up to two USB single tuners with the V2.

or am I better of buying a new one, and if I can use the one I have, can I buy another single tuner so as to have 4, or isn't the unit capable of handling 2 single extra tuners?

You can either buy a second USB tuner or buy a suitable USB dual tuner. The V2 can have up to a total of 4 tuners, 2 internal, and 2 USB tuners.

The Beyonwiz shop sells V2 bundles that include a Hauppauge USB dual tuner as a 4-tuner PVR option. You could order a bundle with the dual tuner and no HDD if you want to supply your own HDD, provided you haven't sent in the order already. You could also by the 3-tuner bundle and add your existing USB tuner.

However, you can't have a USB HDD and two USB tuners attached without using a USB hub (I'd recommend connecting the hub to the USB2 port with the two tuners attached and the HDD connected to the USB3 port). You may need a powered hub. I've never looked at the power requirements of the tuners.

[robbo]

Thanks for your time providing answers.

I think my best option is to buy a USB 3 enclosure and use it to house my T2 HDD and buy a V2 with a new dual tuner and no HDD. I'll forget about getting a USB Hub as it's just something else to go wrong. I will then retire my T2 to the recycle bin.

Next see how long it will take to process my order.

Thanks again

[robbo]

Just realised a USB 3 hub and single tuner is cheaper than dual tuner so I may go that way instead

[Grumpy_Geoff]

2. The spinner appears for anything up to 8 minutes - probably my autotimers over-driving the box - usually late evening.

I'm not so sure your AutoTimer definitions are the cause of the prolonged spinner if it's "usually late evening", as the AutoTimer plugin will run every 30 mins (by default) so if the definitions are the issue then you should see the spinner every 30 mins whenever the Wiz is showing output on its HDMI port.
However, see EPG point below.
If you wish, open this URL from a browser - http://beyonwizt2/autotimer - and copy the output, paste it into a text file, and attach it here and I'll have a quick squiz at the definitions to see if I can spot any potential issues.

3. About once a week I find it's lost all the station programs I can't select many stations from the guide until I step through each station to refresh.

Sounds to me like you haven't setup EPGRefresh correctly to run daily to automatically visit all providers.
Of course, this then takes us back to the AutoTimer definitions, because if the EPG doesn't have many events, then the AutoTimer plugin won't have many to process and any rouge definitions may at times be masked.

4. Can I transfer my Auto Timer list to the V2 easily and keep all my existing recordings by just transferring the HDD from my T2, or do I need to reformat the HDD?

Yes to transferring your AutoTimer definitions list.
See here for two scripts I wrote.
Don't run the scripts whilst you have recordings running as the GUI will be restarted.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Just realised a USB 3 hub and single tuner is cheaper than dual tuner so I may go that way instead

You may also need an antenna splitter to feed the second USB tuner.

[robbo]

Thanks Geoff.

I've attached the timer file as a txt file - I couldn't upload it as an xht file. I hope that's ok

You may also need an antenna splitter to feed the second USB tune

Thanks for the warning. Maybe I should just buy a twin tuner, what do you suggest? I thought it would provide piggy pack functionality.

I agree that it's likely not the AutoTimers. I don't know that it's EPG Refresh either. The system works some days and not others. It's always been very temperamental and now the constant freezing is just too much. I think it's time I retired the old box to the bin.

Thanks for the script but I am inclined to start again, in case I have made a blue on my config. I'll think about it when I get the new unit. I haven't ordered it yet as I want to be confident about what to buy, whether I am better off with a USB hub, 2 tuners and a splitter or a twin tuner. Your opinion welcome

[prl]

You may also need an antenna splitter to feed the second USB tune

Thanks for the warning. Maybe I should just buy a twin tuner, what do you suggest? I thought it would provide piggy pack functionality.

If what you want is:
1 USB HDD
4 tuners total (2 internal + 2 USB)
No WiFi
No antenna feed-through from V2 to TV

Then the simplest configuration is to use a dual USB tuner. That avoids the need for an additional antenna feed for a second single USB tuner and a USB hub. It's the least clutter. But it it is a bit more expensive, since a single USB tuner from Beyonwiz is $50, while a dual USB tuner is $100, though you'll save some of that by not needing a USB hub.

None of the Beyonwiz offerings for USB tuners have antenna feedthrough (and I've never seen one that does), so if you use a USB tuner, then you'll need an antenna splitter to (at least) feed the V2 and the TV antenna inputs, if you want to watch TV just using the TV standalone. But that's the same situation as for a T2 with a USB tuner, so you may already be set up for that.

If you want to use a USB hub and two USB single tuners, all of the Beyonwiz tuners I have, the squarish black one, the "bluey" USB single tuners and the Hauppauge USB dual tuner all request 500mA from their USB port.

That means that you won't be able to run two tuners through a USB from the USB2 ports unless the hub is powered (the USB2 port can only supply 500mA). You probably can't use an unpowered USB3 hub from the USB3 port, because though the port can supply 1000mA, the hub itslef also requires power.

Those requirements may rule out some of the lower cost USB hubs. The 4-port powered USB3 hub that Beyonwiz sells will do the job, but it only costs $15 less than difference between the cost of getting a dual USB tuner from them and getting a single USB tuner from them, though you may be able to find a better price elsewhere.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I agree that it's likely not the AutoTimers.

All of the definitions have -
searchType="start"
so the event matching should be quick.

However, all have -
avoidDuplicateDescription="3" (you have it in your "defaults" too).
Which is "Require description to be unique" set to value "Any service/recording", so you're flogging the arse off the T2 every time it is asked to do a uniqueness check on an event. Back in May I did suggest to you that you should not use "Any service/recording".
I'd be limiting that to particular definitions where you have a lot of unwatched episodes of the series, and that are stored in their own sub-directory that the definition has set a custom location for.
For all of the others, I'd set them as "On same service" or "On any service"
... and also keep completed timers for 8 days.

All of the definitions restrict to a bouquet ("RobSue Favourites") except for "NCIS". This isn't relevant to performance though, just that you may be generating timers for the older episodes.
If you just wanted the new episodes, you could create three specific NCIS, NCIS: Los Angeles, and NCIS: New Orleans definitions and restrict to the relevant 10 HD and 10 BOLD services, and have a (begin) time window of, say,
NCIS - 20:00-21:00
Los Angeles - 21:00-22:00
New Orleans - 20:00-21:00
to catch what appear to be the new episodes.

I don't know that it's EPG Refresh either. The system works some days and not others.

Have you got the EPG setting "EPG cache reload" enabled?

It's always been very temperamental and now the constant freezing is just too much.

That could be explained by your use of "Any service/recording".

[robbo]

I think you've presented a good case for a double tuner. Thanks, that's what I'll order but i will give the T2 a final chance to redeem itself based on your comments that it may be more my fault than i gavevit credit for.

In the meantime...

keep completed timers for 8 days

Where's the setting for that?

Have you got the EPG setting "EPG cache reload" enabled?

No i don't, should i? If so reload every 24 hours?

restrict to a bouquet

forgot how to do that, its not very intuitive. I goto Restrict to specific bouquets and press blue add service button. I right arrow to enable. I press blue New again, select RobSue favourites and press enter. It then lists all my channels. Options are All Satelites Providers or Favourites. Tried All and Favourites but cant figure out how to make anythig stick. It always shows disabled.

Code: Select all

     For all of the others, I'd set them as "On same service" or "On any service"     

point taken. Done. And I've changed my defaults to that too

Thanks for suggestions for NCIS but the restrictions you propose mean i have to keep monitoring programming changes by the networks. New series will always be aired in the 7.30 to 10.00 timeslot so i just record all and delete those I've already seen.

[MrQuade]

No i don't, should i? If so reload every 24 hours?

No, never enable that setting (it leads straight to the castle!).

Doing so will overwrite your epg with an old version.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

keep completed timers for 8 days

Where's the setting for that?

Setup>>TV>>Recording settings>>Remove completed timers after (days)

Have you got the EPG setting "EPG cache reload" enabled?

No i don't, should i? If so reload every 24 hours?

Already answered by MrQuade. It was a possibility as to why your EPG runs out of events.
So we're back to you not having a good EPGRefresh setup. Have you specified it to use your "RobSue Favourites" bouquet?
Have you set it to run automatically?

restrict to a bouquet

forgot how to do that, its not very intuitive. I goto Restrict to specific bouquets and press blue add service button. I right arrow to enable. I press blue New again, select RobSue favourites and press enter. It then lists all my channels. Options are All Satelites Providers or Favourites. Tried All and Favourites but cant figure out how to make anythig stick. It always shows disabled.

Really much much much easier to do it in OpenWebif.
But if you really want to do it in the GUI, then -
BLUE/Edit services
Ensure "Enable Service Restriction" is enabled
Down to "Editing"
LEFT/RIGHT to select Bouquets
BLUE/New
Select your "RobSue Favourites" bouquet, press OK
GREEN/OK
Job done.
Also add it as a default, that way any new definitions created with the GUI will be created with it specified.

Thanks for suggestions for NCIS but the restrictions you propose mean i have to keep monitoring programming changes by the networks. New series will always be aired in the 7.30 to 10.00 timeslot so i just record all and delete those I've already seen.

Then just enable "Only match during timespan" and set "Begin of timespan" to 19:30 and "End of timespan" to 22:00 (or suitable values, remembering this value is for matching against the _start_ time of the EPG event).

[robbo]

Setup>>TV>>Recording settings>>Remove completed timers after (days)

thanks. It was set to 7

So we're back to you not having a good EPGRefresh setup. Have you specified it to use your "RobSue Favourites" bouquet?
Have you set it to run automatically?

Following are abbreviations of my settings - what am i doing wrong here?
Refresh automatically yes
Duratio 120
Start earliest 4.30 am
Latest 1.00 pm
Delay 10
Using fake recording
Wake up from standby yes
Force scan no
Shutdown after no
Flush epg before no
Inherit from autotimer was no, changed just now to yes , is that right?
Run after refresh no

But if you really want to do it in the GUI, then

Thanks. Yes much harder but i needed to know how. Thanks

Then just enable "Only match during timespan"

Done.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Duratio 120
Start earliest 4.30 am
Latest 1.00 pm

You can check if the EPGRefresh plugin actually runs daily (from memory, as I don't have it installed, it's on the INFO button in its configuration popup). With those settings, it should show its completion to be 04:42 (I'm assuming six providers).

Force scan no

I think "Force scan even if receiver is in use" should be enabled, otherwise the plugin will wait until the box is in standby and not recording (I think, it's been a long time since I used it).

Inherit from autotimer was no, changed just now to yes , is that right?

You didn't report the BLUE/Edit Services config., but that should now be redundant (I think) given you've now instructed the plugin to use the services and bouquets from the definitions. I had never used that setting in the past, so I don't know if it's functional.

[robbo]

Thanks for all your time and consideration helping me to improve the unit's performance and understanding its operation better. I will stall buying a replacement to make sure I get this one right and understand it better.

Rob

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Thanks for all your time and consideration helping me to improve the unit's performance and understanding its operation better.

No problems. But we're not finished yet.

3. About once a week I find it's lost all the station programs I can't select many stations from the guide until I step through each station to refresh.

What do you mean by "lost all the station programs"?
By "station" I'll assume you're referring to the network broadcasters.
Do you mean that when you go forward a day or two, you have some broadcasters without any program events at all for those days and onwards?
Would those broadcasters that are without any guide event data be the same ones that you have not recorded or viewed in the last week?

If so, then that points to EPGRefresh not running against all of the broadcast providers, and your EPG is only being kept current for providers you've viewed or recorded from.

Now that you have fixed up your AutoTimer definitions, and potentially also fixed your EPGRefresh config, here's two tests for you to run.

1. Test out EPGRefresh, ensuring all providers are visited

• First you'll empty out the EPG of all guide data
  Bring up the menu, scroll to the Plugins column and open the IceTV plugin, press 5 to enable IceTV (this will empty out the EPG), then press 6 to disable IceTV (and go back to using the FTA guide data, which is now empty)
  Exit back to the plugins column
• Scroll over to "Program Guide" and open it and confirm the EPG is empty, exit back to the menu
• Scroll over to EPGRefresh and open it,
  You can set the "Duration to stay on service" to 30 seconds, as that is enough time
  Enable the "Show popup when refresh starts and ends" so you can see when it has finished (otherwise I think you need to press INFO every 30 seconds or so to see the list of services that are still to be scanned)
  Run the "Refresh now" option (I think it's available from the YELLOW/Functions tab)
  Press INFO to see a list of services remaining to be scanned - there should be one from every broadcast provider contained in your "RobSue Favourites" bouquet (except for the provider currently being scanned by the plugin)
  Once the plugin has finished visiting all of the providers, disable the "Show popup ..." setting
  Exit the plugin
• Scroll back over to the "Program Guide" entry and open the EPG - it should have 7 days worth of guide data for all of the providers
• Exit the EPG

2. Delete pending timers. Generate a weeks worth of timers. See if the box "freezes".

• Scroll down to the "Timers" entry and open it
• Delete all of the "waiting" timers - don't delete any of the "done!" or "disabled" timers
• Exit the timers list
• Scroll down to the "AutoTimer" entry and open the plugin
  Get a stopwatch ready or note the time
  Press GREEN/Save to have the plugin run your definitions against the EPG and generate a weeks worth of timers
  Remember to time how long it takes to do the full AutoTimer run by waiting for the popup
• Exit the plugin and main menu
• Bring up the media list and play a recording, or watch some live TV
  [Whilst watching live TV (but not a recording), you should be able to press BLUE to bring up the "extensions" menu and see an entry for the AutoTimer progress percentage, if you open that entry you should see the Job View for the AutoTimer plugin and it processing through your definitions]

Did you see a spinner? If so, for roughly how long?
How long did the AutoTimer run take?

[robbo]

What do you mean by "lost all the station programs"?
By "station" I'll assume you're referring to the network broadcasters.
Do you mean that when you go forward a day or two, you have some broadcasters without any program events at all for those days and onwards?
Would those broadcasters that are without any guide event data be the same ones that you have not recorded or viewed in the last week?

What I mean is that sometimes when I look at the guide, it doesn't show ANY programs for some of the network broadcasters and if I scroll up or down through the guide, it skips all channels that are blank so I can't choose them. I've found that the only way to get it to work is to change from my Favourites bouquet to Terrestial, then I choose a station that does work (It has to be dispaying the channel, not the guide) and then I have to scroll though each of the channels by pressing the up or down channel button. When I do that, it refreshes the guide and when I am done I can select my preferred bouquet again.

If that sounds like an EPG Refresh problem then I think it is more likely to have occured because the unit has rebooted itself, for some unknown reason, and when it comes out of a bootup, the EPG is blank. If I call up the guide before the next morning when EPG Refresh has run, it will only show the channels that it is locked into, or ones where it's done some recordings. I've never had reason to suspect that the EPG Refresh as faulty.

Is there any way to get EPG to run automatically as part of the boot up sequence? Or is there a way to make the EPG survive a reboot?

Because of all the changes I made this weekend, I had to reboot manually which wiped the EPG. After the reboot the EPG was totally empty so I did a manul EPG refresh, and it worked perfectly.

[MrQuade]

Disable the option to "skip empty channels" to avoid that problem where you can't select a channel with no data.

You could of course have also just returned to live tv and used the ch+ and ch- buttons to change channel.

[robbo]

Thanks. Didn't understand the implications of skip empty channels option.
I don't watch Live TV, only through the Wiz

[robbo]

Thanks. Didn't understand the implications of skip empty channels option.
I don't watch Live TV, only through the Wiz

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I don't watch Live TV, only through the Wiz

That's what MrQuade is referring to, watching live TV through the Wiz.

You should also be able to use the channel/services list, FAV, to select a service and press OK on it, even if there's no guide data for it.

[robbo]

That's what MrQuade is referring to, watching live TV through the Wiz.

You should also be able to use the channel/services list, FAV, to select a service and press OK on it, even if there's no guide data for it.

Sorry, misunderstood. Yes, watching live TV through the Wiz and scrolling through the channels is the only way I found to restore. I didn't remember there was a skip channels with no details option, and didn't realise activating it would cause problems down the track.

I could not select a channel from my list - it would skip the channels with no EPG content until I went to Live TV and scrolled through them from there. I am hoping that by changing the Sip Channels option, I won't have that problem again.

Thanks again for your help. I'll continue monitoring to make sure it's doing what it should.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Is there any way to get EPG to run automatically as part of the boot up sequence? Or is there a way to make the EPG survive a reboot?

Because of all the changes I made this weekend, I had to reboot manually which wiped the EPG. After the reboot the EPG was totally empty so I did a manul EPG refresh, and it worked perfectly.

In the EPG settings, what do you have for EPG cache location and EPG cache filename?

How do you shutdown the T2?
The EPG cache is written to "disk" when the GUI is shut down (ignoring setting "EPG cache save" for the moment). If the GUI isn't getting a graceful shut down then the EPG will be empty on the next start because the cache is empty/contains old events.

Here's a test - when you're not recording, ensure the EPG has 7 days worth of data, then go to MENU>>Power>>Restart GUI.
Once the GUI has restarted, open the EPG - is the guide data there for all days?
Rinse repeat for a reboot instead of a GUI restart - is the guide data there for all days after the reboot?

[MrQuade]

I could not select a channel from my list - it would skip the channels with no EPG content until I went to Live TV and scrolled through them from there. I am hoping that by changing the Sip Channels option, I won't have that problem again.

Once the refresh option is working properly you should never end up with blank channels anyway

Just make sure you never cut power to the Wiz without first shutting down properly. That should be the only way you would see blank epg data if epgrefresh is running properly.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

... That should be the only way you would see blank epg data if epgrefresh is running properly.

I think in this case a properly running, regularly executing, EPGRefresh is yet to be proven.

[robbo]

In the EPG settings, what do you have for EPG cache location and EPG cache filename?

Internal Flash
epg

How do you shutdown the T2?

If I shut it down I use the Power>Reboot option, however this unit reboots itself from time to time without human intervention

Once the GUI has restarted, open the EPG - is the guide data there for all days?

Yes

Rinse repeat for a reboot instead of a GUI restart - is the guide data there for all days after the reboot?

Yes

Just make sure you never cut power to the Wiz without first shutting down properly. That should be the only way you would see blank epg data if epgrefresh is running properly.

As mentioned, this unit likes to reboot itself without my permission or support

I think in this case a properly running, regularly executing, EPGRefresh is yet to be proven

Time will tell. I am sure EPGRefresh is ok.

Peronally I think they key is why is it rebooting itself? Is that indicative of a randomly faulty machine, or is it rebooting because the Any Service/Recording option I was using was overdriving it and causing it to crash and reboot?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Once the GUI has restarted, open the EPG - is the guide data there for all days?

Yes

Rinse repeat for a reboot instead of a GUI restart - is the guide data there for all days after the reboot?

Yes

Right then, that's all good. Proving the EPG cache is written and read.
Now it's up to EPGRefresh to keep it current (or you'll need to swap to another method).

I think in this case a properly running, regularly executing, EPGRefresh is yet to be proven

Time will tell. I am sure EPGRefresh is ok.

Peronally I think they key is why is it rebooting itself? Is that indicative of a randomly faulty machine, or is it rebooting because the Any Service/Recording option I was using was overdriving it and causing it to crash and reboot?

I don't think EPGRefresh was correctly and regularly executing unless you had unintentional restarts every day.

Any crash logs present?

[robbo]

Maybe you're right, but I am more inclined to think EPGRefresh worked well but the machine rebooted while 'asleep'. Where would I go to look for logs?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Maybe you're right, but I am more inclined to think EPGRefresh worked well but the machine rebooted while 'asleep'. Where would I go to look for logs?

Crash logs, by default, are in /home/root/logs (via File Commander, navigate through Internal Flash, then "home", then "root", then "logs").
Alternatively, look through Windows File Explorer where you should see a "Logs" share for the T2.

If there was an abnormal enigma2 restart then that should be evident in the file enigma2_execution.log in that same directory.

[robbo]

Here's what't in that folder

[Grumpy_Geoff]

The crash log is too old.
There's no evidence here to show that the T2 has been abnormally restarting frequently enough to cause that regular loss of EPG data.
I think you should face facts, your setup of EPGRefresh hasn't been working.

Last three months worth of GUI executions -

Code: Select all

Tue Sep  8 22:54:24 AWST 2020: executing enigma2
Wed Oct  7 22:05:02 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Wed Oct  7 22:05:03 AWST 2020: executing enigma2
Wed Oct  7 22:10:16 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

No issue for 29 days (8-Sep to 7-Oct), until the GUI was killed by the operating system on 7-Oct 22:05. Possibly from an out-of-memory condition.
The GUI was immediately restarted. Five minutes later the box rebooted not by GUI instruction - reason unknown (rear power switch from you?).

Code: Select all

Fri Oct 23 17:06:24 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 3
Fri Oct 23 17:06:24 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

No issue for 16 days, then restart from user requested GUI restart

Code: Select all

Wed Oct 28 18:07:05 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 3
Wed Oct 28 18:07:06 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

No issue for 5 days, then restart from a user requested GUI restart

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Thu Nov 19 21:29:45 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Thu Nov 19 21:29:46 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

No issue for 22 days, then the GUI was killed by the operating system on 19-Nov 21:29. Possibly from an out-of-memory condition.
The GUI was immediately restarted.

Code: Select all

Sun Nov 29 07:59:08 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 2
Sun Nov 29 08:00:31 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

No issue for 10 days, then restart from a user requested reboot

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Sun Nov 29 18:33:01 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 3
Sun Nov 29 18:33:02 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

Restart from user requested GUI restart

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Sun Nov 29 18:34:40 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 2
Sun Nov 29 18:35:57 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

Restart from user for a reboot

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Given that it's now clear that you don't shut down your T2 to deep standby when it's not in use and also don't regularly restart the GUI nor reboot it , I think you need to enable setting "EPG cache save" and set it to save the cache every 12 or 24 hours. That will allow it to restart with a reasonably up-to-date EPG in the event of abnormal restarts.

[robbo]

I can set the cache as recommended but should I be doing it differently? I.e. turning it off often? Why memory problems? I only remember one hard reboot recently when it would simply not respond to anything.

I will keep a closer eye on Rob refresh

[peteru]

this unit reboots itself from time to time without human intervention

What is the rating on your T2 power supply unit? It should be printed on the PSU sticker. It should be something like 12V, 2.5A. There were a few T2 units shipped out early on that had power supplies which were only 1.5A. That is OK for running the T2 without any peripherals, but may be underpowered for systems that have additional accessories connected.

Random reboots are often related to power supplies. If you happen to have a spare power supply that is compatible with the T2 (this type is very common), you may want to try it for a while to see if your random reboots go away.

[robbo]

The power rating is 3A so it should be more than enough based on what you said.

In terms of Sleep vs deep standby, I am using a Logitech remot control. Should I choose a different option to power it down to Deep Standby?
If not, do you know if Logitech make a working addon for Tasker for Android? If they did then I might be able to write a Task to put the unit into Deep Sleep at night.

On that note, does the software have a memory leak that makes a reboot necessary at regular intervals?

[prl]

In terms of Sleep vs deep standby, I am using a Logitech remote control. Should I choose a different option to power it down to Deep Standby?

We use a Logitech remote on our in-use T4. All that's needed to change the action of the POWER button (and the power toggle code used by default in the Logitech) is to change MEMNU>Setup>System>Button settings>Action on short POWER from "Standby" to "Immediate shutdown" (it's the same in all models).

If the PVR is recording when short POWER is used with that setting, it will go to standby to complete recordings and tasks, and then shut down when there are no active recordings or tasks.

[robbo]

Sounds easy enough. Does that slow down restarts substantially? I assume that fixes the memory leak problem

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I can set the cache as recommended but should I be doing it differently? I.e. turning it off often? Why memory problems?

Some people leave their units in standby when not in use, that way timeshift is not continually being written disk.
Others shut down their units to deep standby when not in use. If you do that with a T2/T3 that is using a USB tuner then there is a risk that the tuner won't be set in the correct mode when the GUI starts and the tuner won't be functional (that is also the same situation for a GUI restart too).
Some T3s can have an issue with the HDD not being detected on boot, so those T3 users tend to leave theirs in standby.

The T2 doesn't have the "smarts" in its front panel to be able to tell the GUI whether the startup was from a timer or other means, so it always goes to a full running state showing live TV and timeshifting. Other models can detect the startup was for a timer and put the unit to standby a few seconds after startup, and also put the unit back to deep standby once the timer recording has finished.
There are work-arounds you can do for a T2 to effect close to the same thing.

I only remember one hard reboot recently when it would simply not respond to anything.

That possibly was 7-Oct, as the execution log shows two GUI starts without a listed "exit" -

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Wed Oct  7 22:05:03 AWST 2020: executing enigma2
Wed Oct  7 22:10:16 AWST 2020: executing enigma2

Prior to that, there was another possibility on 1-Aug.

I will keep a closer eye on Rob refresh

I don't think the "old" setup was actually working. You may not have given it some services or a bouquet to process against.

[robbo]

Ok, I will now monitor the EPG Refresh closely for the next week or so to make sure it works. I just scrolled through all 7 days and the EPG appears full so the refresh I did last night appears to have worked. I assume 7 days is the limit, since I did change it to 8 days yesterday, but all programs run out after 7 days,

As for the Sleep vs Deep Sleep issue, I can certainly change the Logotech remote to make it a Deep Sleep every time, but based on your comments, I am not sure it's the right solution. Given the limitations of the T2, and the problem with memory leak, what do you suggest?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

As for the Sleep vs Deep Sleep issue, I can certainly change the Logotech remote to make it a Deep Sleep every time, but based on your comments, I am not sure it's the right solution. Given the limitations of the T2, and the problem with memory leak, what do you suggest?

You've had 10 instances of what possibly could be an out of memory condition since the 30-Dec start of the details in the execution log, only four of those were in the last five months, so I'd say deep standby isn't a must for you.

Code: Select all

Wed May  6 22:05:10 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Tue May 19 23:25:13 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Tue May 26 22:18:23 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Fri May 29 23:25:52 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Wed Jun  3 20:47:08 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Thu Jun  4 21:56:44 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Thu Jul  2 22:30:47 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Tue Jul 14 22:10:09 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Wed Oct  7 22:05:02 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137
Thu Nov 19 21:29:45 AWST 2020: enigma2 terminated with code 137

You could consider installing the StartupToStandby plugin, that way any restarts will have the T2 in standby soon after the GUI starts.
See this and the following post - viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14496&p=190964#p190954

[prl]

Sounds easy enough. Does that slow down restarts substantially?

Starting from standby is almost instantaneous, because everything is running already. Not much more needs to be done than to re-enable A/V output.

Starting a V2 that has no network mounts from shutdown takes ~45 sec.

I assume that fixes the memory leak problem

A restart from shutdown restarts everything, so if there is a memory leak, then it would stop the leak accumulating.

[MrQuade]

Something that I am but sure we have touched on yet, but you should also be updating firmware to the latest beta.

So you know what firmware series and date you are on at the moment?

At the very least you should be using the latest 19.1 public release from November last year.

[peteru]

You keep on mentioning a memory leak, but there is no evidence of one. I think you are on the wrong path here. It is quite normal for the machine to run without any reboots or issues for several months at a time. The only recent issue that was related to resource exhaustion was triggered by the wrong data being sent by IceTV server. A situation that does not appear applicable to your configuration. There has been some mitigation work done on the IceTV plugin to prevent such problems in the future. However, there are no known persistent memory leaks that would require regular reboots on stock standard firmware.

However, I note that you are not running stock standard firmware. The first thing to do would be to download the current beta firmware image and flash it. Then set up your system without restoring the configuration and without installing any third party software or patches. It is very likely that your problems will go away. Before/if you decide to install any third party software or patches, ensure that you introduce only one thing at a time. Test each change for at least a few days so that you can identify the component/change that introduces any issues.

Or go with your original plan. Get a new V2, set it up from scratch and sell/donate the T2 to someone who will reflash it and make it work for themselves.

[robbo]

10 instances of what possibly could be an out of memory condition since the 30-Dec ... so I'd say deep standby isn't a must for you.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the out of memory mention indicated a known memory leak issue. Sounds like I just leave as is but once in a while do a manual shut down.

You could consider installing the StartupToStandby plugin, that way any restarts will have the T2 in standby soon after the GUI starts.
See this and the following post - viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14496&p=190964#p190954

I think doing an occasional manual reboot may be a safer option than introducing an addin to handle it, but I will keep the addin in mind

A restart from shutdown restarts everything, so if there is a memory leak, then it would stop the leak accumulating.

An occasional reboot sounds like it's definitely the way to go

At the very least you should be using the latest 19.1 public release from November last year.

My Box is showing the following. Is that ok? You're saying 19.2 from Nov 19 but mine is showing 19.3 from March 2019 - not sure how that works
System OE: OE-Alliance 4.3
Firmware version: beyonwiz 19.3.20191106 (19.3-273-g6f501ae)
Kernel / Drivers: 3.14.2 / 20180416

You keep on mentioning a memory leak, but there is no evidence of one.

My reason for uncertainty in that regard is as noted by Geoff " 10 instances of what possibly could be an out of memory condition since the 30-Dec". However I now understand that this is not an issue, but just cause for an occasional full manual reboot

I note that you are not running stock standard firmware

The only thing I am running that is not standard is the Enigma 2 plugin skin. Do you consider that to be a cause for problems? Or what are you seeing or suggesting that I should be dropping?

I was actually going to ask if there's a way to run Zoom on this box, but your comment has definitely put me off even considering additional software.