Editing T4 H264 HD recordings

[arthackett]

After wasting months and $'s trying to find a way to quickly edit media files externally (on a Mac, with CrossOver if necessary), retaining program info/metadata and subtitles, I have failed miserably. So called video editing apps are appalling and many have trouble even opening a file which runs instantly on QuickLook. My go-to editing solution was the fabulous Mpeg Streamclip, but it chokes on H264 files off the Wiz for some reason. Even the mpeg2 files don't play properly any more, even if they can be quickly cut and exported. AvidEmux is ok, but loses subtitles and file details and the exported file formats that play normally on the Wiz will not take cue markers any more.
The cutlist editor on the Wiz is ok, but the remote keys are dying and my better half can't stand the clicky noise, never mind file transfers are excrutiatingly slow between Wiz disks.

In summary, is there a video file editor to remove ads, retain subtitles and meta data, essentially having finer, faster control over the editing process than the built in cutlist editor? I don't even want to try and squeeze the files any more as the H264 HD files broadcast are about as efficient as possible without spending hours converting or losing more detail. I already own Final Cut Studio, iMovie, Resolve and various bits of crap of the App store(s).

[MrQuade]

Not really what you are asking, but one thing stuck out about speed. How slow are you talking when referring to transfers? The T4 can easily reach 50MB/s on transfers. While it does take a while to copy a recording, I didnt think that was all that slow.

[raymondjpg]

After wasting months and $'s trying to find a way to quickly edit media files externally (on a Mac, with CrossOver if necessary)....

In summary, is there a video file editor to remove ads, retain subtitles and meta data, essentially having finer, faster control over the editing process than the built in cutlist editor? I don't even want to try and squeeze the files any more as the H264 HD files broadcast are about as efficient as possible without spending hours converting or losing more detail. I already own Final Cut Studio, iMovie, Resolve and various bits of crap of the App store(s).

I use VideoReDo TVSuite Version 5 to remove ads and retain teletext, then remux with MKVToolNix GUI to convert teletext to srt format subtitles. The application is for Windows only, not Mac, and you can have a go with a free trial from https://www.videoredo.com/en/Products_TVSuite_V5.html.

I don't know what you mean by metadata, could just be my ignorance, but H264 .ts files edited with VideoReDo and saved as .ts files look to me to retain pretty much all of the original stream data.

[arthackett]

Thanks for that info. I was just referring to the EPG movie/episode information. After any non-Wiz editing, the only info that survives is the title even when dumped back onto a Wiz disk with the other fies related to the original recording, resulting in a generic tv episode for example. I tried to run a trial version of TF Doctor as that sounded perfect, in CrossOver, but there were indeterminate issues and the video wouldn't display even though it told me all the video and audio info (H264, etc). Wine files running even when the TF Doctor wasn't actually working were running at 400-700% CPU.

[arthackett]

Thanks MrQuade. I suspect that it is around the 50MB/s rate.

[MrQuade]

Thanks MrQuade. I suspect that it is around the 50MB/s rate.

No worries. That's the expected speed on the T4 then.

Understandably it *does* take some time to transfer a recording at that speed. But given the limitations of the T4's CPU, 400Mbps is about the limit.

The U4 can maintain a full 1Gbps transfer rate. (But even that can take a while to transfer recordings)

[raymondjpg]

Thanks for that info. I was just referring to the EPG movie/episode information. After any non-Wiz editing, the only info that survives is the title even when dumped back onto a Wiz disk with the other fies related to the original recording, resulting in a generic tv episode for example. I tried to run a trial version of TF Doctor as that sounded perfect, in CrossOver, but there were indeterminate issues and the video wouldn't display even though it told me all the video and audio info (H264, etc). Wine files running even when the TF Doctor wasn't actually working were running at 400-700% CPU.

I don't know of any any way that EPG movie/episode information can be retained in a .ts file.

I have TS Doctor but rarely if ever use it. The ad detection procedures look to me to be as powerful, if not more powerful in some ways, than VideoRedo, but after that is done the checking and refinement of the suggested cuts is to my mind much less cumbersome and quicker with VideoRedo. No ad detection process is likely to be 100% accurate, and I find the cut points created by VideoRedo to be much easier to navigate and refine than the cutting areas in TS Doctor.

TS Doctor is also handy for extracting colored subtitles, but that can be achieved for free by using CCExtractorGUI. I prefer monochrome subtitles anyway, and remuxing a .ts file with teletext subtitles using MKVToolNix GUI is more than adequate for that.

[Brainz]

I edit T2 files directly from the the Movie folder shared on my PC with TS Doctor 2.2 (paid version).
All T2 Metadata files are recreated when edited files are saved on my PC.
It takes a bit of time to understand all the settings and the cut point selection is a bit hit or miss but I can't live without it now.
All the fancy ad-skipping add-ons all seem to be more usable in Europe. I've never got them to work properly or quickly.
I do all editing manually but it's really not that big a deal.

[netmask]

You can find the program info in one of the helper files. For example
20190210 2140 - ABC HD - Mrs Wilson.ts.meta
contains the following

1:0:19:225:221:1010:EEEE0000:0:0:0:
Mrs Wilson
After the sudden death of novelist and ex-SIS man Alexander Wilson, wife Alison is forced to investigate when mysteries from her late husband's past come knocking.
1549795218

The actual TS program file shows the following information when inspected by MediaInfo

General
ID : 545 (0x221)
Complete name : Z:\20190210 2140 - ABC HD - Mrs Wilson.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 1.50 GiB
Duration : 1 h 3 min
Overall bit rate : 3 396 kb/s

Video
ID : 2320 (0x910)
Menu ID : 549 (0x225)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : High@L4
Format settings : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 1 h 3 min
Bit rate : 2 969 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 10.3 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : MBAFF
Scan type, store method : Interleaved fields
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.057
Stream size : 1.32 GiB (87%)

Audio
ID : 2321 (0x911)
Menu ID : 549 (0x225)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 1 h 3 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 272 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 41.667 FPS (1152 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -2 s 192 ms
Stream size : 116 MiB (8%)
Language : English

Text
ID : 2322 (0x912)-801
Menu ID : 549 (0x225)
Format : Teletext Subtitle
Language : English

Menu
ID : 263 (0x107)
Menu ID : 549 (0x225)
List : 2320 (0x910) (AVC) / 2321 (0x911) (MPEG Audio, English) / 2322 (0x912)-801 (Teletext Subtitle, en) / 5501 (0x157D) () / 5500 (0x157C) ()
Language : / English / English
Maximum bit rate : 10828800

[prl]

Thanks for that info. I was just referring to the EPG movie/episode information. After any non-Wiz editing, the only info that survives is the title even when dumped back onto a Wiz disk with the other fies related to the original recording, resulting in a generic tv episode for example. I tried to run a trial version of TF Doctor as that sounded perfect, in CrossOver, but there were indeterminate issues and the video wouldn't display even though it told me all the video and audio info (H264, etc). Wine files running even when the TF Doctor wasn't actually working were running at 400-700% CPU.

I don't know of any any way that EPG movie/episode information can be retained in a .ts file.

I don't think that it's in the recorded .ts file in the first place (I don't think that EIT packets are saved to the file). It is in the recording's .ts.meta and .eit files.

I don't know why the file recording metadata isn't being used when the recording is copied back, but the base name of the metadata files must match the base name of the .ts file, so if you rename the .ts file, you need to rename the metadata files in the same way.

[arthackett]

Thanks Peter. I was assuming the file name would need to be the same, I even deleted the original ts. The info field in the in the movie browser remained blank though, so the sidecar files unfortunately unlink unless all opertions are done on/by the Wiz itself. If anyone knows how to relink them it would be interesting and probably useful. I'll try renaming the sidecars as a test, seeing they're already orphaned, but I suspect it won't work.

ArtH

[arthackett]

Great info there, thanks netmask.

[arthackett]

I edit T2 files directly from the the Movie folder shared on my PC with TS Doctor 2.2 (paid version).
All T2 Metadata files are recreated when edited files are saved on my PC.
It takes a bit of time to understand all the settings and the cut point selection is a bit hit or miss but I can't live without it now.
All the fancy ad-skipping add-ons all seem to be more usable in Europe. I've never got them to work properly or quickly.
I do all editing manually but it's really not that big a deal.

I'd be happy to use TS Doctor or ReDo, but I don't have a working virtual machine and Crossover and other Wine based apps never work for me. I still can't believe the weird interfaces on all these new editing apps. It's a solved problem for 30 years, but everyone has their own take.

[arthackett]

I edit T2 files directly from the the Movie folder shared on my PC with TS Doctor 2.2 (paid version).
All T2 Metadata files are recreated when edited files are saved on my PC.
It takes a bit of time to understand all the settings and the cut point selection is a bit hit or miss but I can't live without it now.
All the fancy ad-skipping add-ons all seem to be more usable in Europe. I've never got them to work properly or quickly.
I do all editing manually but it's really not that big a deal.

Interesting, thanks. I'll try harder to get TS Doctor running.

[prl]

Thanks Peter. I was assuming the file name would need to be the same, I even deleted the original ts. The info field in the in the movie browser remained blank though, so the sidecar files unfortunately unlink unless all opertions are done on/by the Wiz itself. If anyone knows how to relink them it would be interesting and probably useful. I'll try renaming the sidecars as a test, seeing they're already orphaned, but I suspect it won't work.

What extension do the edited files have? The metadata files are only associated with recording/media files that have a .ts extension.

Also, after editing some fields in the .ts.meta file (in particular file size and duration) will no longer be correct. Also the data in the .ap and .sc files will no longer match the edited recording data (they contain offsets into the original recording data).

[Graemek]

I use VideoRedo. The ad removal is amazing. Some H264 files had issues but normally it's fine
Just goog the name - you will find it

[AnthonySmith]

On a Macintosh edit ".ts" by converting HD files to SD using FFMPEG then use ProjectX.jar to edit and demux, remux and convert to ".mp4" using FFMPEG.

[MrQuade]

On a Macintosh edit ".ts" by converting HD files to SD using FFMPEG then use ProjectX.jar to edit and demux, remux and convert to ".mp4" using FFMPEG.

Keeping in mind though that the re-encoding step will result in a loss of video quality.

[kmwa]

Sorry, I've only got a T2. And my computer is Windows 10, not Mac.
But I've succeeded in editing Beyonwiz recording on my computer (which is a lot easier than using the built-in cut editor).
I’ve got the Beyonwiz and the computer on the same wireless network, so I can see the Beyonwiz hard drive from my laptop.
This is the process I use:

• I copy the .ts file from the Beyonwiz to the laptop hard drive for easier editing.

• Then I edit the .ts file using free Avidemux software. It is quite easy to trim the ends and to remove commercials and unwanted sections in Avidemux, as long as you remember to set the cutpoints at keyframes by using the keyframe buttons.

• Before saving the file, ensure that the Video Output option and the audio Output option are both set to Copy, and the Output Format is set to Mpeg TS Muxer (ff). This retains the original file quality and also speeds up the saving process as you are just cutting out sections rather than re-encoding the entire file.

• Save the new .ts file, and then change the name of the new file to match the existing file on the Beyonwiz. It’s a good idea to keep the original file saved somewhere just in case you’ve stuffed up the editing.

• Now copy the .ts file back to the Beyonwiz.

• And now for the magic bit that makes it work. Delete the .cuts file, the .meta file, the .ap file and the .sc file.

• The Beyonwiz will rebuild the .cuts file and the .meta file (and doesn’t seem to need the .ap file or the .sc file). If you don’t do this, the Beyonwiz assumes the file is still the same length, which screws up the playback.

The program information is in the .eit file which you haven’t touched, so when you open up the video in Beyonwiz, the EPG movie/episode information is still there.
I don't know if this helps you with a T4 and a Mac, but I hope it gives you a few pointers and is helpful to others with my setup.

[arthackett]

Sorry, I've only got a T2. And my computer is Windows 10, not Mac.
But I've succeeded in editing Beyonwiz recording on my computer (which is a lot easier than using the built-in cut editor).
I’ve got the Beyonwiz and the computer on the same wireless network, so I can see the Beyonwiz hard drive from my laptop.
This is the process I use:

• I copy the .ts file from the Beyonwiz to the laptop hard drive for easier editing.

• Then I edit the .ts file using free Avidemux software. It is quite easy to trim the ends and to remove commercials and unwanted sections in Avidemux, as long as you remember to set the cutpoints at keyframes by using the keyframe buttons.

• Before saving the file, ensure that the Video Output option and the audio Output option are both set to Copy, and the Output Format is set to Mpeg TS Muxer (ff). This retains the original file quality and also speeds up the saving process as you are just cutting out sections rather than re-encoding the entire file.

• Save the new .ts file, and then change the name of the new file to match the existing file on the Beyonwiz. It’s a good idea to keep the original file saved somewhere just in case you’ve stuffed up the editing.

• Now copy the .ts file back to the Beyonwiz.

• And now for the magic bit that makes it work. Delete the .cuts file, the .meta file, the .ap file and the .sc file.

• The Beyonwiz will rebuild the .cuts file and the .meta file (and doesn’t seem to need the .ap file or the .sc file). If you don’t do this, the Beyonwiz assumes the file is still the same length, which screws up the playback.

The program information is in the .eit file which you haven’t touched, so when you open up the video in Beyonwiz, the EPG movie/episode information is still there.
I don't know if this helps you with a T4 and a Mac, but I hope it gives you a few pointers and is helpful to others with my setup.

So sorry about the late reply, I don't know how I missed it, even though I thought I had notifications turned on. Looks like this solves a lot of my issues as Avidemux is something I can understand (mostly) but I haven't found a way to export files that the Wiz is entirely happy with. Hopefully your notes will help there. My other issue is keeping the captions as many critical words seems to be buried in FX or mumbled quickly, which while realistic, can make comprehension challenging.

[prl]

I haven't found a way to export files that the Wiz is entirely happy with. Hopefully your notes will help there.

Can you elaborate? I think that it's generally pretty easy to export files from the T/U/V series Beyonwizes, once you've set up the mechanism, which can sometimes be troublesome, especially Windows sharing. I say that as a developer who pushes files back and forward between my Mac and my test Beyonwizes on a many-times-per-day basis.

[MrQuade]

I haven't found a way to export files that the Wiz is entirely happy with. Hopefully your notes will help there.

Can you elaborate? I think that it's generally pretty easy to export files from the T/U/V series Beyonwizes, once you've set up the mechanism, which can sometimes be troublesome, especially Windows sharing. I say that as a developer who pushes files back and forward between my Mac and my test Beyonwizes on a many-times-per-day basis.

I think they are talking about exporting files from avidemux, not transferring files to the Wiz. It sounds like the files are not playing back properly.

But otherwise, yes, more specific information about why the Wiz is unhappy with the files would be handy.

[prl]

You're probably right, but it's not clear quite what the problem is.

[Paul_oz53]

You're probably right, but it's not clear quite what the problem is.

Could it be that arthackett needs to run reconstructapsc on the edited file? I've occasionally had to do so on TS files but lately I tend to convert to mp4 format for retention.

[prl]

I'm refraining from further comment until there's a better description of what the issue is.