EPG "problems"

scaredy cat · Post by **scaredy cat** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 19:26

I know there is no easy solution, but scrolling through the program list is painful.

As there are (about) 4 screens of channels, why am I forced to ARROW DOWN each channel to get to where I want to go?

If it is 2 screens down why can't I "Page down" to skip the pages quicker?

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 19:50

Well you can what sort of jump you want when you scroll off the current page you are viewing which moves quickly and jumps channels.

And create a favourites group to set the order and limit the number of channels.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 19:53

Hi Scaredy Cat,

Have you enabled a Favorite list to limit the channels displayed to only those you want to see? (You can also arrange the channels you want to see in any order you wish to see them.)

Regards,
Ian.

scaredy cat · Post by **scaredy cat** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 20:03

Gully wrote:Well you can what sort of jump you want when you scroll off the current page you are viewing which moves quickly and jumps channels.

And create a favourites group to set the order and limit the number of channels.

Ok, try 2:

I don't have a "favourite list" because there are not THAT many channels. (Compared to Foxtel.)

So I want to look at "ALL" the channels.

There are.... (Sorry it is busy just now recording a show. I don't want to disturb it) say 8 channels shown on the screen in lines.

There are 32 channels in total - just to say.
Say I am watching channel 1 - for simplicity.

I press the guide button and see the display.

I want to see what is on the OTHER channels.

Now I can see channels 1 - 8, as in how many of the total I see.
To get to channels 9 - 16 I have to press the down button 9 times.
Then to get to see channels 17 - 24 I have to press the down button another 9 times.

It would be nicer if I could press a "page down" button to jump to the next 8 channels.

Using the "Favorite" list kind of defeats the purpose of seeing what is on ALL channels, if I don't exactly have any favorites.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 20:36

Reads like you missed my part of the post that talked of setting the EPG jump!

scaredy cat · Post by **scaredy cat** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 20:40

Gully wrote:Well you can what sort of jump you want when you scroll off the current page you are viewing which moves quickly and jumps channels.

And create a favourites group to set the order and limit the number of channels.

Sorry, I can't parse that correctly.

I know I can make a setting that when I press the up/down it jumps a screen rather than moving the "cursor" down one line.

But then you get stuck when you want to scroll on the given screen.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 22:29

scaredy cat wrote:...
If it is 2 screens down why can't I "Page down" to skip the pages quicker?

Because you can't. Sorry, there isn't a better answer than that. Scrolling down by using CH+/- as in the File Player recordings list hasn't been implemented on any other scrolling view. I don't know why. I've requested it on a number of occasions (probably mostly on the beta forum), but the suggestion hasn't been taken up. I think it would be useful on all the Beyonwiz scrolling views and menus.

You can move down the guide page a bit faster by doing press-and-hold on the up/down arrow keys. As Gully suggested, you can also reduce the number of items slightly by using favorites, though I really only do that for the two advertorial services on Seven and Nine. I'm also in a "regional" broadcast area (aka the National Capital city

), and I don't get quite as many services as in the beg metro areas like Sydney and Melbourne.

It also doesn't bother me all that much because I use IceTV's Web interface for doing almost all of my recording setup.

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 00:13

prl wrote:Scrolling down by using CH+/- as in the File Player recordings list hasn't been implemented on any other scrolling view. I don't know why. I've requested it on a number of occasions (probably mostly on the beta forum), but the suggestion hasn't been taken up. I think it would be useful on all the Beyonwiz scrolling views and menus.

The wishlist has the following entry:

W13. User interface improvements, as follows:
(p) add the following functions for all displayed lists, including the EPG:
REW - move up one page in the list
FF - move down one page in the list
PREV - jump to the first entry in the list
NEXT - jump to the last entry in the list

Ahh, it was good memories reading through that list again.....

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:25

I didn't think to look in the wish list.

Personally, I prefer the CH+/- used in the file player for paging forward to the buttons suggested in the wish list, but that's probably because the CH+/- buttons on the Harmony remote I use are beside the navigation buttons, and are more conveniently located than the rew/ff/etc buttons. This isn't the case on the Beyonwiz remote, because the CH/- buttons are further from the navigation buttons. However, even on the Beyonwiz remote the rew/ff/etc buttons are the most inconveniently located and somewhat awkward to use for one-hand operation.

sub3R · Post by **sub3R** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:46

prl wrote:...
Personally, I prefer the CH+/- used in the file player for paging forward to the buttons suggested in the wish list, but that's probably because the CH+/- buttons on the Harmony remote I use are beside the navigation buttons, and are more conveniently located than the rew/ff/etc buttons. This isn't the case on the Beyonwiz remote, because the CH/- buttons are further from the navigation buttons. However, even on the Beyonwiz remote the rew/ff/etc buttons are the most inconveniently located and somewhat awkward to use for one-hand operation.

At the risk of starting that lively discussion again

- I agree 100%.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:00

A bit of history on paging in menus.

The first request I can find was for paging in the file player in the wishlist for 01.03.077 (about Jul 2007):
Top wishlist (in rough order of importance):
...
20. A 'Page Down' button when viewing File List.

This was made more specific in the wishlist for 01.03.084 (About Aug 2007):
6. File Playback improvements, as follows:
...
(f) assign buttons ">>" = Page Down, "<<" = Page Up, "|>>" = Jump to last file, "|<<" = Jump to first file.

It was implemented in part, in its current form in 01.04.144:
6. In "File Playback", buttons "CH+" and "CH-" are assigned as page up and page down.

Next request was in around Aug 2008 in the wishlist for 01.05.261:
1. Timer setting improvements, as follows:
...
(c) add the ability to jump up or down a page in the Timer List by using the CH+/- buttons.
Implemented but with different buttons in 01.05.280 (Dec 2008):
1. the ability to jump up or down a page in the Timer List by using the LEFT/RIGHT buttons.
I was incorrect about the FilePlayer being the only scrollable that can page - the Timer list can, too.

Making the amount of scroll when the up (down) button is pressed on the top (bottom) line adjustable in the EPG was requested in the 01.05.301 wishlist (about Jun 2009):
W4. EPG improvements, as follows:
...
(b) in 'Set-up' --> 'Misc.' --> 'PVR', add a new menu item "EPG Scroll" with three options "Single line" / "Half page" / "Whole page".

In the same wishlist, paging and go-to-start/go-to-end buttons were proposed for all scrollables, as posted by madmax:
W13. User interface improvements, as follows:
...
(o) add the following functions for all displayed lists, including the EPG:
REW - move up one page in the list
FF - move down one page in the list
PREV - jump to the first entry in the list
NEXT - jump to the last entry in the list

The first of those wishes was granted in 01.05.320/01.07.031 (around Jan 2010):
2. in 'Set-up' --> 'Misc.' --> 'PVR', a new menu item "EPG Scroll" with three options "Single line" / "Half page" / "Whole page" has been added.

I think that one reason why the Beyonwiz UI has some of these improvements unimplemented is that Beyonwiz PVRs can't be used in S. Korea because they use a different TV standard there. So there is no option for Beyonwiz to give PVRs to their engineering staff for them to take home for their families to use, and get their feelings about usability, and even to get some "real world" usage experience themselves.

sub3R · Post by **sub3R** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:11

Some interesting history there.
I didn’t know that the LEFT/RIGHT buttons paged up & down in the Timer List - I regularly make the mistake of trying to page up or down in the Timer List with the CH+/- buttons, the same as used in the File Player.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 15:19

sub3R wrote:...
I didn’t know that the LEFT/RIGHT buttons paged up & down in the Timer List - I regularly make the mistake of trying to page up or down in the Timer List with the CH+/- buttons, the same as used in the File Player.

I didn't know, either (or had forgotten). I haven't had an opportunity to see if they really do. But with IceTV, I don't often go into the timer list either, unless something seems to have gone awry.

It would be nice if the Beyonwiz UI made more consistent use of buttons for the same kind of function. IIRC all the coloured buttons and the OK button are used in some context to mean "delete current item". When I had a Topfield 7000 it was similar, all the coloured buttons as well as the white >|< button meant delete in some context.

sub3R · Post by **sub3R** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 17:31

Yes, the LEFT/RIGHT arrows do page up & down in the Timer List.

I agree that the UI should be more constant. Just recently I was teaching a friend to use a “new” refurbished Wiz & they were getting quite confused with the way the menu system works. Maybe Beyonwiz engineers should look at the later Panasonic TVs to see how a good menu system should work – all with numerous options as well.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 18:29

Hi Dennis,

Or they should read the wish list and UI threads.

Regards,
Ian.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 19:25

Hi Peter,

I think I can make the first claim to the various pagination requests (PREV, REW, FF, NEXT). They were first made in a written communication direct to Beyonwiz on 10-Jun-2007. (This was before the Beta area of the forum was opened.)

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 19:39

Hi, Ian. That predates my owning a Beyonwiz by a couple of months

sub3R · Post by **sub3R** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 20:23

IanSav wrote:Hi Dennis,
Or they should read the wish list and UI threads.

You mean this UI thread, Ian?
Perhaps they did & realised we all couldn’t agree on what buttons should be used for pagination.

But seriously, I think for the current generation Wizzes all that is probably in the too hard, or not worth it basket. A new generation Wiz with the current Wiz’s reliability & a nice user friendly UI should be really something.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 20:55

Hi Dennis,

Yes, that is the public UI thread about which I was thinking.

I made many of my UI suggestions based on a complete review of functionality with an aim of making more commands available by using currently unused buttons. The buttons I suggested should be more mnemonic and hence be a little easier to remember. The idea was that more of the commands could be available via via the same buttons in more places across the UI. Keep in mind that I also suggested a new remote control layout to work with the new button suggestions.

I have looked at a few newer devices with "pretty" GUIs while the Beyonwiz is claimed to be plain and spartan. I usually always prefer the very functional Beyonwiz UI over some of the "prettier" alternatives.

Regards,
Ian.

sub3R · Post by **sub3R** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 21:25

IanSav wrote:...
Keep in mind that I also suggested a new remote control layout to work with the new button suggestions.

Yes I did remember that, Ian – for our type of viewing the current remote would have left a lot to be desired.

I don’t mind if a UI is pretty or plain - just practical, professional looking, easy to read & user friendly. In other words the opposite of what I have seen of Windows 8.

The UI or menu system can make or break a product. I used to be a big fan of Sony TVs but the later models have, in my opinion, a disastrous menu system. I recently purchased a new TV for a friend & after looking at the Sony’s menu system it was quickly crossed off our list.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 21:46

IanSav wrote:I think I can make the first claim to the various pagination requests (PREV, REW, FF, NEXT). They were first made in a written communication direct to Beyonwiz on 10-Jun-2007. (This was before the Beta area of the forum was opened.)

I won't let you steal those bragging rights

I've sent a whole bunch of stuff, including feedback about the RCU key layout, user interface improvements, navigation and pagination as well as media support and middleware support requests to Beyonwiz back in March 2007, before the units were available to the general public.

Back in the days when Beyonwiz Korea had at least ten times as many staff as they had at the end of 2011.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 22:05

Hi Peter,

I'll accept your claim and go one better...

My first written review and report on the Beyonwiz DP-S1 was completed and sent to Beyonwiz 15-Feb-2007. This was a more generic report and did not go into too much UI detail.

Yes, it is sad to have seen so many of the Beyonwiz full time staff leave. I am not sure what kind of a company they are now. I know they use more project based contractors these days.

Regards,
Ian.

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