Questions for Beyonwiz Staff

Bruce85 · Post by **Bruce85** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 00:20

I have two questions for the Beyonwiz staff,

They are:

1. Does Beyonwiz have any plans to release a new model?

2. If a new model is going to be released, will it offer a) IPTV capability and b) the ability to access video sharing websites (IE. YouTube)?

grl · Post by **grl** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 06:18

Good Luck getting an answer.

Companies often don't advertise new products to hold onto competitive advantage. As soon as BW tell you, the competitor will know. If they know they can use it against BW. Letting out details about new models can hurt existing sales and alienate retailers. Being a small company BW can't afford to do that.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 08:14

Hi Bruce85,

What Grl posted is absolutely correct. Beyonwiz usually won't even tell beta testers what they are doing or planning in case the word gets out.

It is also worth repeating that this forum is staffed mostly by fellow Beyonwiz users. Beyonwiz staff rarely come in here and post comments even less often. If you want a comment directly from Beyonwiz then you will need to contact them directly.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 08:24

Let the speculation begin (again)!

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:07

Hi Peter,

You are right. I didn't even think about this becoming *another* is there a new model coming thread.

Viva la speculation.

(No, scratch that. All speculation does is waste time and get people to imagine baseless specifications for a speculated new model. Beyonwiz will probably be criticised for not releasing a model exactly as imagined in everyone's' individual mind's eye if/when new products are released.)

Regards,
Ian.

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 20:13

There's a new model out....where...where????

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 21:04

Discuss a new model - the won't even confirm that they've discontinued some old ones

ross · Post by **ross** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 21:11

I can see they would not want to release details of a new model but at least they should say a new model is not far away.

Buyers, me for one get sick of waiting and buy another brand.

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 07:19

ross wrote:Buyers, me for one get sick of waiting and buy another brand.

As you should if the other brand better meets your needs. Different manufacturers should be pushing each other to improvements in funcionality the same way retail competition should benefit buyers with lower prices.
Buyers such as yourself will force BW to upgrade. If they can still sell the current/old model by the pallet load, why change it?

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 13:06

If there is another model in the wings they have missed the the Xmas trade so my guess, if there is one, won't be until Aprilish 2010...

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 15:39

netmask wrote:If there is another model in the wings they have missed the the Xmas trade so my guess, if there is one, won't be until Aprilish 2010...

To help decode netmask's prediction: April 5 is the planned start of Freeview Phase II.

Perhaps the new Beyonwiz Freeview Phase II products will be released a few days beforehand

My prediction is that it will be an "FV-L2" or similar, based on the same chipset.

'Twill be interesting to see what Beyonwiz (and other manufacturers) do about Phase I product...

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 17:45

prl wrote:My prediction is that it will be an "FV-L2" or similar, based on the same chipset.

'Twill be interesting to see what Beyonwiz (and other manufacturers) do about Phase I product...

So, Freeview remains the main focus for Beyonwiz/DPG

2 Freeview anchors in a row with nothing on the horizon for those who want a proper, fully functional PVR. How disappointing

I guess my (mainly delightful) association with Beyonwiz will end with the demise of my current equipment - back into the Topfield fold as they seem to be going the right way. I don't reckon I'll be lonely either.
Dumb, Dumb, Dumb Beyonwiz

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 19:12

Paul,

You do realise that the above is purely speculation based on no verifiable information whatsoever. There's no reason to a) believe it and b) resort to name calling.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 20:15

Hi Peter,

It appears that no-one is able to convince Paul55 that most of his concerns are a creation of his and other people's imaginations.

Regards,
Ian.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 21:44

peteru wrote:Paul,

You do realise that the above is purely speculation based on no verifiable information whatsoever. There's no reason to a) believe it and b) resort to name calling.

And no reason to interpret it as precluding further non-Freeview models, just to add more speculation on speculation!

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 08:19

Just to make it clear: I do not speak for Beyonwiz or DPG in any way. Any contribution I make to this topic is purely personal speculation and conjecture.

If I want to express approval or disapproval of the direction that Beyonwiz might take, I'll make that clear.

You don't have to be a fan of Freeview (and I thought it was fairly clear to regulars that I'm not, particularly) to think it likely that Beyonwiz, since they already have a Freeview model, might release a new model that works with the coming Freeview EPG. After all, it's one of the very few potential positives that Freeview compliance might bring. I say potential positives because we still have no idea what its benefits or downsides will be.

If it's going to happen, then it's likely to happen in March/early April 2010 as netmask suggested. I think that if it does happen it's likely to be based on the current FV-L1 model. It may need some extra hardware to handle the cryptographic requirements of Freeview, but if not, it may simply be an FV-L1 with a different SystemID (because the Macrovision license fee may require it).

This sort of speculation can be fun. Let's try to keep it that way.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 08:35

Hi Peter,

My guess would be that the current Beyonwiz hardware would not be up to the processing task of adding any cryptographic requirements that FreeView may require. I would also guess that enough time has passed such that Beyonwiz would be likely to be considering a hardware refresh on their units. Only time will tell as to what Beyonwiz has in store for us.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:01

IanSav wrote:Hi Peter,

My guess would be that the current Beyonwiz hardware would not be up to the processing task of adding any cryptographic requirements that FreeView may require.
...

Hi, Ian. As usual, our ability to speculate in any informed manner is hamstrung by Freeview's lack of information about what Freeview actually is. The EPG data rate will be low, and I don't think there would be any need for additional hardware to cope with common symmetric encryption algorithms (AES, triple-DES, etc). Even if decryption of the EPG was beyond the capability of the main processor, EM8620 product brief explicitly mentions decryption capability (including DVB-CSA) in its transport demux processor. DVB-CSA might be a possibility, though I think that that would require the addition of a smart card interface to enable decryption of the CSA session keys by the master key(s). Weaker encryption schemes might simply embed a set of master keys in the firmware.

I can't see public key encryption helping with the problem. If it is used, it might need some hardware support.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:37

Hi Peter,

Isn't speculation fun. We can waste hours guessing about things with no basis of knowledge or fact.

It looks like FreeView is never going to come clean about all its objectives or the capabilities/restrictions of their reference design. In my opinion, all that was written in the recent article about the next version of FreeView (if it is accurate and can be believed) is all bad news for the general public.

Regards,
Ian.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:06

Hi Peter,

prl wrote:To help decode netmask's prediction: April 5 is the planned start of Freeview Phase II.

When I first followed this link I didn't bother reading the date on the article. This is over 5 months old. I notice that all recent Freeview promotional TV ads are now only talking about the extra channels. There is no more spruiking for the EPG or *any* other Freeview based features. I wonder if Freeview have seen the writing on the wall and are softening their approach. So far a Freeview logo only gets you limitations and restrictions. Why would you want to pay for that? If I read the article correctly then try and explain to users that they can't skip content in their recording they can only fast forward. Then tell them that when they fast forward a show they can't keep an eye on the show scan past because the TV stations will be displaying a commercial over the to of the sped up video. Now point out that they are paying extra to get those commercials. Kind of sounds like a Foxtel from hell doesn't it.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 13:09

Hi, Ian. I've just had a bit of a look around on the Freeview Web site looking for any information about the "Phase II" EPG. I've only been able to come across vague stuff about Freeview having a "7-day EPG", which doesn't really say anything. I wonder whether the manufacturers have told them what they can do with MHEG?

That pretty much leaves MPEG4 compatibility (though how they can ensure that in the absence of any Australian standards for it, I don't know) and DCM as the only upsides of Freeview labelling. The DCM implementation on Beyonwiz leaves me completely underwhelmed, though I guess in principle it could be useful. I am a bit annoyed that Beyonwiz hasn't said anything about whether their non-Freeview products will receive the same MPEG4 support that their Freeview products will. Not that I think that MPEG4 is imminent.

The FV-L1 features page claims amongst its Freeview features "Firmware upgrade via OTA(Over the Air)". Really? So you just plug your FV-L1 into the antenna, scan, and you get your firmware upgraded? I think not. There doesn't seem to be much mention of that capability on the Freeview pages, either.

Edit: I've just noticed that Freeview has toned town its "15 channels" claim. It's now apparently "up to" ten: "If you're currently watching analogue television, you will receive a maximum of 5 channels. By switching to Freeview digital television now, you will get high definition viewing with up to 5 more channels than what you currently receive." Even though, by my count, there should be eleven distinct programming streams now in the metro areas: ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, SBS1 SBS2, Nine, GO!, Seven, Seven2, Ten and ONE.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 13:56

Hi Peter,

prl wrote:Even though, by my count, there should be eleven distinct programming streams now in the metro areas: ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, SBS1 SBS2, Nine, GO!, Seven, Seven2, Ten and ONE.

Isn't there an Indigenous channel in some areas? Also, the second Channel 7 is 7TWO.

I was also interested in the Manufacturers link on the Freeview website. This still requires a full non disclosure agreement before you can get *any* information about what Freeview is or does. What a shame if you discover something horrible and don't want anything to do with it - you would still be bound by non disclosure. Why are they so secretive? There must be stuff they really want hidden from the public.

Regards,
Ian.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 14:04

My crystal ball has suddenly gone black..

http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squido ... l_Ball.jpg

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 14:17

IanSav wrote:... Why are they so secretive? There must be stuff they really want hidden from the public.

Regards,
Ian.

Hi, Ian. I really (no sarcasm) have no idea why they think they must hide their technical requirements. If their crypto for the (putative) EPG was riddled with holes, they might want to hide that bit, but as for the rest, I just don't get it. Freeview's behaviour so far simply suggests to me that it's a very poorly run organisation.

To wit: their recent press release that essentially says "we just spent a lot of money on advertising, aren't we clever!" Along with an implicit belief that they think people meters are accurate to six significant figures

tonymy01 · Post by **tonymy01** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 14:38

Peter, OTA upgrades is something many models support now (before all this Freeview gaff), and manufacturers have the option of chucking the f/w at the broadcaster and say "here you go, push this out at X repetition". Panasonic and LG did this I think already thru non-FV (I think they gave it to the ABC to spit out).
Freeview UK certainly has used this scheme to update Topfield 5Ks.

I am guessing Freeview just formalises this a bit more by providing single points of contact/connectivity for the box manufacturer to provide the f/w to one source, rather than specific networks, and rather than expect the end user to tune into a particular network, will propagate properly using this so-called encrypted data stream they have mentioned that no-one knows the details of...

Regards

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 15:26

tonymy01 wrote:...
I am guessing Freeview ... [insert just about anything here] ...

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 00:54

There was a company that provided OTA services (co-ordinated with various broadcasters nationally) well before Freeview was established. You can subtract at least one of the "pros" from the Freeview list.

puck · Post by **puck** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:18

prl wrote:programming streams now in the metro areas: ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, SBS1 SBS2, Nine, GO!, Seven, Seven2, Ten and ONE.

Add a NEW??? channel in the near future ... TVS (Channel 31 in Sydney).
For more info see ...... http://www.tvs.org.au/news/acta-welcome ... mmunity-tv

And who worries about DATACASTING on Channel 4 thru 49 (RF 35)

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:15

puck wrote:
prl wrote:programming streams now in the metro areas: ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, SBS1 SBS2, Nine, GO!, Seven, Seven2, Ten and ONE.
Add a NEW??? channel in the near future ... TVS (Channel 31 in Sydney).
For more info see ...... http://www.tvs.org.au/news/acta-welcome ... mmunity-tv

And who worries about DATACASTING on Channel 4 thru 49 (RF 35)

I don't think community TV's part of Freeview, so I wouldn't expect them to be part of any "Freeview channel count". I'm not sure about the datacasting - I don't know who's behind it, but they may not be a Freeview player, either.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:09

prl wrote:I don't think community TV's part of Freeview, so I wouldn't expect them to be part of any "Freeview channel count". I'm not sure about the datacasting - I don't know who's behind it, but they may not be a Freeview player, either.

You are not seriously suggesting that Freeview would pass up the opportunity to claim an extra free channel as a result of their "great works"?

I agree I don't expect the community TV broadcasters to join and it will be a while before they appear but I am sure Freeview would be keen to add another to their list.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:46

Gully wrote:
prl wrote:I don't think community TV's part of Freeview, so I wouldn't expect them to be part of any "Freeview channel count". I'm not sure about the datacasting - I don't know who's behind it, but they may not be a Freeview player, either.
You are not seriously suggesting that Freeview would pass up the opportunity to claim an extra free channel as a result of their "great works"?

There are few things that would surprise me about Freeview

At the time I posted the "ten not eleven" they weren't counting ABC3. They are now, so they're now claiming an additional 6 channels over analog for a total of 11. I wonder what happened about the "15 channels" of the early Freeview PR. E.g. from CNET Nov 08:

In 2009, Freeview says most Australian viewers will be able to receive five High Definition (HD) and 10 Standard Definition (SD) channels, making a total of 15 Freeview digital channels.

Now it's 11, and we're rapidly running out of 2009

Oh, and since 20 November 2008, Freeview ads aren't actually ads.

Gully wrote: I agree I don't expect the community TV broadcasters to join and it will be a while before they appear but I am sure Freeview would be keen to add another to their list.

Someone's paying Freeview's advertising and salary budgets, so I've got a feeling that being in the club isn't for free. I'm not sure that they'll be giving anyone any free rides. It's possible that the advertising is being carried on the stations without charge to Freeview, but that's still a cost to the networks, and there are still the ad production costs.

brianh · Post by **brianh** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 22:08

....As far as the softer marketing, perhaps Freeview have finally learned that "less is more" is a good marketing approach....... it's such a shame that they plan to support it with a "more is less" delivery......

grunta · Post by **grunta** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:44

IanSav wrote:Hi Peter,
prl wrote:Even though, by my count, there should be eleven distinct programming streams now in the metro areas: ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, SBS1 SBS2, Nine, GO!, Seven, Seven2, Ten and ONE.
Isn't there an Indigenous channel in some areas? Also, the second Channel 7 is 7TWO.

I was also interested in the Manufacturers link on the Freeview website. This still requires a full non disclosure agreement before you can get *any* information about what Freeview is or does. What a shame if you discover something horrible and don't want anything to do with it - you would still be bound by non disclosure. Why are they so secretive? There must be stuff they really want hidden from the public.

Regards,
Ian.

My take on this is ........."if we are successful - we will add features we want when we can"

by not disclosing anything, they are "not" "failing to deliver"
the less the public knows (fact) the less they need to be scared of (current time frame)

rollout similar to ATM cards...... unlimited transactions to start with, paid for by the retention of less staff, that saving has now been absorbed, - and forgotten, now it costs money to supply facility - so "we" have to charge you

get-em hooked, then reel them in later ........

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:40

puck wrote:
Add a NEW??? channel in the near future ... TVS (Channel 31 in Sydney).

Some interesting information

a-pac Australia's Public Affairs 576i SD coming soon in 2010

Standard DEF too.....what a waste of bandwidth (content wise)

Martyn

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 13:00

Martyn wrote:a-pac Australia's Public Affairs 576i SD coming soon in 2010

Only on Pay TV.

They would like to be on FTA but there is no spectrum for them and ABC want the space as well so only one may get up.

This all presumes that the analog shutdown frees spectrum that is reallocated to digital FTA.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 14:28

Hi,

Perhaps they can/will share the transmitter on UHF-32 with Community TV (Channel 31).

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 14:39

Gully wrote:...
This all presumes that the analog shutdown frees spectrum that is reallocated to digital FTA.

The freed-up spectrum, or at least some of it, will be auctioned off for mobile services, emergency services and "the music industry" (digital radio?).

BigbobOz · Post by **BigbobOz** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 00:08

I don't understand how it is full already??? Across VHF and UHF aren't there far more than 12 channels???

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 09:26

Hi BigbobOz,

BigbobOz wrote:I don't understand how it is full already??? Across VHF and UHF aren't there far more than 12 channels???

As Peter suggested, the government wants to sell off some of the TV spectrum to other uses.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:26

IanSav wrote:Hi BigbobOz,
BigbobOz wrote:I don't understand how it is full already??? Across VHF and UHF aren't there far more than 12 channels???
As Peter suggested, the government wants to sell off some of the TV spectrum to other uses.

Regards,
Ian.

Even though there are 50 channels available for both analog and digital and another 4 available only for analog (Chans 0-2, and 5A), transmitters on the same channel have to be out of normal reception range of each other (apart from Single Frequency Networks for digital, but they have to transmit their signals in a tightly coordinated way). This means that the 12 TV channels (plus a few community/indigenous broadcasters) do in fact use most of the available channels.

Halving the number of TV channels in use in all the regions will free up some space, but there are a number of contenders to use that space, including digital radio. Mobile digital, another potential user of the freed space, is quite bandwidth-hungry.

Also, the channels used by analog will only be completely free at the end of 2013, after the last analog TV transmissions cease.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 16:01

I read an interesting industry article about DVB-T2 conversion in the UK. They reckon it will only take them a year to convert all of UK to DVB-T2, giving a 67% increase in capacity. The BBC claims to be the first to roll out DVB-T2 into full operational service.

There was also another article that suggested that spectrum allocation rules in the UK may include an assessment of the efficiency of the technology being deployed and give preference to applicants that make optimum use of the allocated spectrum.

Perhaps there is a chance that Australia may follow and make better use of the spectrum.

download · Post by **download** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 08:33

peteru wrote:Perhaps there is a chance that Australia may follow and make better use of the spectrum.

I'm all for efficiency, but in risking paraphrasing that misquote ""I think there is a world market for maybe five computers", does the population (ie no of FTA channels) of Australia really need the bandwidth in the next decade or two? Sure it would nice, but assuming we're gonig to re-jig the space allocations a bit once the analogue spectrum shuts down we should be able to support all our current channels (with hopefully slightly better bit rates) using existing protocols?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 09:33

Obviously you have not understood the reason for freeing the spectrum. It's not to get more TV on air, it's to make room for data delivery services. One of the OTT services happens to be TV, but that's just one possible use out of many.

jhtemail · Post by **jhtemail** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 15:33

Is Beyonwiz still in Business I have had issues with my BeyonwizT4 for some time. I need to get a replacement power supply. I have tried calling your support line it does not answer, I have tried your sales email no reponse, I have tried your support message system and got an automated response but nothing else. Just wondering is Beyonwiz Still in Business is there anyone there. Have you gone out of business and just not shut the web site down ?.

IanL-S · Post by **IanL-S** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 15:48

The most optomistic view is that Beyonwiz in in hibernation; apparently they are unable to get new stock from the OEM who makes the V2 and are presumably having problems getting spare parts for the V2 and older Beyonwiz PVRs.

It appears that they no longer have a shopfront; no point in paying rent when there is nothing to store.

Nasa Electronics seems to have access to secondhand V2 which they are refurbishing. They have all sorts of goodies, so they may even have a power supply for the T4 (althoug not listed on their site - see https://www.nasaelectronics.com.au/

Ian

grunta · Post by **grunta** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 18:04

jhtemail wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 15:33
Is Beyonwiz still in Business I have had issues with my BeyonwizT4 for some time. I need to get a replacement power supply.

There was a guy in Perth a years back doing power supply repairs, he even posted what resistors / capacitors to replace if you wanted to DIY -(as they were essentially undersized (?) and 99% of the time, the reason for failure (on the older toppies and older Beyonwiz)
The oztoppy forum might be your best bet..

Decisive Computer Solutions in Thornlie (9459 0165 or 0458 588 555) support@decisivecomputersolutions.com.au - this alternative recommended by a user on Whirlpool here. Mark is very helpful and is an expert with PVR repairs. He can also help with spare parts (some new other second hand).
Above Electronics who were the Authorised Service Providers in South Australia. Unit 4, 23 Action Road, MALAGA, WA 6090 Tel: 08 9209 2283

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 18:30

grunta wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 18:04

There was a guy in Perth a years back doing power supply repairs, he even posted what resistors / capacitors to replace if you wanted to DIY -(as they were essentially undersized (?) and 99% of the time, the reason for failure (on the older toppies and older Beyonwiz)

That is warkus, and he no longer performs repairs.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 19:18

MrQuade wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 18:30

grunta wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 18:04

There was a guy in Perth a years back doing power supply repairs, he even posted what resistors / capacitors to replace if you wanted to DIY -(as they were essentially undersized (?) and 99% of the time, the reason for failure (on the older toppies and older Beyonwiz)

That is warkus, and he no longer performs repairs.

And just to be clear the contact details in the same post for Decisive Computer Solutions are his, so please respect his wishes and don't use them.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 19:37

IanL-S wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 14, 2022 15:48
It appears that they no longer have a shopfront; no point in paying rent when there is nothing to store.

I don't think there's been a "shopfront" for a few years (I think he was operating Beyonwiz from his home).
I think Jai's "The Beer Shed Brewing Co." took over use of the Beyonwiz premises - https://thebeershed.com.au/
Pic here having a beer

Custom Brew Co. is another interest - http://custombrewco.com.au/

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