Add Timer not always red

[Blot]

When adding a timer to currently showing programs the epg does not always show it in a red colour. As well as the white on light green is a bit hard to read.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

When adding a timer to currently showing programs the epg does not always show it in a red colour.

Likely the timer is on a service that's not in the current bouquet displayed in the EPG. In other words, a service that's simulcasted, such as ABC TV on LCNs 2 and 21, 9Go! on 93 and 99.
In the EPG, press PREV/NEXT to cycle through the bouquets, or press TV and select one from the drop-down.
The bouquet won't become the current bouquet until you select a service from it.

[Blot]

I will check if it happens again. I was doing it from the epg with the right bouquet. It did it twice and then started working properly when I tested it again an hour later. This timer icon was there btw just no red background for the first two.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I will check if it happens again. I was doing it from the epg with the right bouquet. It did it twice and then started working properly when I tested it again an hour later.

How were the timers created - manually from the EPG or via the AutoTimer plugin?

This timer icon was there btw just no red background for the first two.

A full 360-degree shaded timer icon or a partially shaded icon?

[Blot]

With the record button when in the epg, not auto timers, just one off timers. I think they were unshaded icons, not sure.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I think they were unshaded icons, not sure.

That means there was a record timer set on either the previous or next program event on that same service, and their pre or post-padding partially covered the event in question.

[Paul_oz53]

The Beyonwiz supports multiple bouquets. Your original problem will be that you have scanned the channels but some channels that you are recording are not in the bouquet you are currently watching or a duplicate with a different channel number is present (think 7 and 71 - both Seven SD but different channel numbers). Hence, sometimes they don't show up in RED in the EPG. Used to annoy me until I learned how to prevent it from happening.

The best way to fix it is to create a Favourites bouquet and elevate it to the top of the list of bouquets. Select a different service to live TV in that bouquet and change to that new channel. All new recordings will be fixed. You may have to remake any timers that aren't highlighted.

And as MrQuade noted, the Wiz is different relative to the Toppys but Wiz users didn't support changing the way it does some things and we are all used to the way it works. I use Harmony remotes and hence, don't have a problem where EXIT is on the remote.

[Blot]

There were no previous or next recordings and the bouquets are correct just 21 distinct channels selected for Melbourne in favourites and favourites selected. It is a bug, like I said it may be a one off as it only happened twice. It happened when the shows had just started so if it happens again it may take a while to reproduce, Cheers.

ps. I have 4 tuners and no other recording was going on that showed red. So 2 all together 2 were not red. All recordings worked. While they were recording other recordings started that showed red, but I could not get new recordings of playing shows to show as red. I have the epg set to 20 lines so could not really see if the icon was shaded, I did not look really.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

There were no previous or next recordings and the bouquets are correct just 21 distinct channels selected for Melbourne in favourites and favourites selected. It is a bug, like I said it may be a one off as it only happened twice. It happened when the shows had just started so if it happens again it may take a while to reproduce, Cheers.

I can't remember now whether the EPG timer highlighting is by event EIT match or simply timespan (on the service).
If it's the former, then that could explain the cause if the broadcast network changed the EIT for the event after the timer was created, as it would no longer match in the EPG (as the timer definition contains the EIT).

[prl]

I can't remember now whether the EPG timer highlighting is by event EIT match or simply timespan (on the service).

By timespan. The same code that detects whether a timer matches an event also returns whether there's a partial match. The partial match information is used for drawing the half-clock icons that indicate that part of a program is being recorded, usually because of padding.

For anyone interested in delving into the code, the matching for the EPG recording markup is done in RecordTimer.RecordTimerEntry.isInTimer(). It's not particularly easy code to follow.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

By timespan. The same code that detects whether a timer matches an event also returns whether there's a partial match. The partial match information is used for drawing the half-clock icons that indicate that part of a program is being recorded, usually because of padding.

Well that buggars up my theory.
According to the report, there was a timer clock icon on the event - but no red shading.

[prl]

According to the report, there was a timer clock icon on the event - but no red shading.

The report wasn't that specific. It just said "This timer icon was there".

There are four clock icons that can be shown, solid coloured whole clock face for "all of the program will be recorded", A left half of a shaded left half-clockface for "the last part of the program will be recorded (usually pre-padding), a whole clockface, with the right half shaded for "the first part of the program will be recorded" (usually post-padding) and a clockface with shaded left and right parts and a transparent centre section. The last one is for various more complicated situations like the recording being only part of the program, and not including either the start or end. The EPG slot for the program is only coloured red (or green for a zap timer) when the whole program is to be recorded.

There isn't really enough to go on in the report for me to work out exactly what the problem is, but it may be that the recording is contained in the program timeslot, but it doesn't run for the whole of the program, which would mean that the EPG entry for the program is not coloured red, and it would show the "shaded left and right" clock icon, or it might be that the recording doesn't cover one of either the start or end of the program..

I'm also not really sure what the "white on light green" text is that's reported as being "hard to read". There's white text on green for zap timers, but I wouldn't describe that green as "light", except when the program slot is highlighted by the cursor, but then the text changes to dark blue, and IMO remains easy to read.

A screenshot (from OpenWebif, rathher than a screen photograph, for clarity) might make the cause clearer.

[Blot]

They are plain timers not auto timers. They are being set by clicking on shows that are currently running. I am pretty sure I added another timer or two to test and it was also not red so 3 or 4 and I successfully deleted them. They were all different channels.

It might just be the first time after a new box is sent out that it happens so maybe it doesn’t matter. Seems to work now.

[MrQuade]

They are plain timers not auto timers. They are being set by clicking on shows that are currently running. I am pretty sure I added another timer or two to test and it was also not red so 3 or 4 and I successfully deleted them. They were all different channels.

If you pressed REC on and event on the EPG while that event was live, then you would presumably only be recording a portion of that event (ie. Not from the beginning). If that's the case, and not enough of the event was being recorded, then it wouldn't have gotten a red highlight.

If you had pressed REC from live TV you would have had a few extra options such as having the ability to save the current timeshift buffer in addition to what was left of the event (though that also wouldn't have highlighted the event in the EPG either, bit6 you would have gotten more of the event assuming you had been watching from the beginning). You can also save past events from the timeshift buffer in that way too.

[Blot]

I have timeshift buffer turned off because I just have a 500g Microsd and a Qnap. Don’t like wearing out drives lol. I have never needed timeshift in 17 years and if there was an option to disable entering it on pause I would even use that. If I accidentally press pause how do I best stop timeshift (currently I am going in and out of standby to turn it off).

In my testing I have not been able to make it non-red since. I did not test it much though.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

If I accidentally press pause how do I best stop timeshift (currently I am going in and out of standby to turn it off).

Zap to a different service, then return with "0" or BACK.

[blip]

The stop button will end timeshift.

[MrQuade]

The stop button will end timeshift.

No, that just puts you back to live TV, it doesn't actually stop the Wiz from accumulating a timeshift buffer.
You need to zap to another service as Grumpy Geoff says.

Just a thought too, you could create a custom keymap to disable the pause button during live viewing of you wanted to prevent that from happening. I think that shouldn't affect its operation during recording playback.

[blip]

If timeshift is disabled but entered by pressing pause the stop button will go back to live TV and seems to stop timeshift ie you can no longer skip back after stop was pressed. If timeshift isn't disabled after entering timeshift the stop button returns to live TV but the timeshift buffer continues to accumulate and you can skip back.

[MrQuade]

If timeshift is disabled but entered by pressing pause the stop button will go back to live TV and seems to stop timeshift ie you can no longer skip back after stop was pressed.

Well there you go. I am almost sure that wasn't the case originally! I learned something today.

[prl]

If timeshift is disabled but entered by pressing pause the stop button will go back to live TV and seems to stop timeshift ie you can no longer skip back after stop was pressed.

I checked this, and it is correct. However, the old timeshift buffer doesn't get deleted until pause is pressed again, timeshift recording resumes and a new timeshift buffer is created, or the channel is changed.

[prl]

They are plain timers not auto timers. They are being set by clicking on shows that are currently running. I am pretty sure I added another timer or two to test and it was also not red so 3 or 4 and I successfully deleted them. They were all different channels.

If you pressed REC on and event on the EPG while that event was live, then you would presumably only be recording a portion of that event (ie. Not from the beginning). If that's the case, and not enough of the event was being recorded, then it wouldn't have gotten a red highlight.

I've tried using REC on an EPG entry for a program that's currently showing, and I get the normal red shading of the recorded program entry in the EPG, and the clock icons on that recording and for the post-padding that overlaps onto the next recording.

I tried using both the FTA and the IceTV EPGs with the same results.

The recording timer for the program currently being broadcast is set to start at the expected time (i.e. earlier than its EPG start time by the current setting of for pre-padding), even though that time is past. The stop time for the recording is also padded in the way you'd expect it. The same timer start and end times are set as the defaults if I use GREEN Add Timer in the EPG on a show currently being broadcast.

There doesn't seem to be enough information posted about the problem for me to successfully replicate it.

[MrQuade]

The recording timer for the program currently being broadcast is set to start at the expected time (i.e. earlier than its EPG start time by the current setting of for pre-padding), even though that time is past.

Oh yes, that makes sense.
Perhaps the recording was made in another way then..... Probably remain a mystery

[Blot]

I have pre-padding set to 0 and no timeshift buffer anyway, like I said. In 17 years I have had one show start much early and I do not care if it does. Often the shows start bang on.

Like I said it was a new Beyonwiz so not many recordings and only five auto-timers at the time. Although I had finished setting it up. So it was probably a freak occurrence as I can not reproduce it either.

I just had a freeze after setting up a new bouquet (Movies) with all common movie channels and going to it while in the guide while on a channel that was not in it then pressing 9 to go to primetime and channel up a few times. I could not reproduce it, so the v2 has some ghosts but not many, it is a great pvr.

[prl]

I have pre-padding set to 0

OK, I must have missed that if it was mentioned.

I set pre-padding to 0, and I still can't replicate the problem you saw.

no timeshift buffer anyway, like I said.

You do as soon as you press PAUSE in live TV. That's what my post about timeshift was referring to.

In 17 years I have had one show start much early and I do not care if it does. Often the shows start bang on.

That's not my experience. Occasionally I find even 5 minutes pre-padding isn't enough, but it's fine if it works for you.

[Blot]

It happened again today for “something’s gotta give”.
I hit the record button during live tv about 5 minutes after it started.

[Blot]

I added 3 more timers. 1 that are not red was added with “record button” in the guide but was no longer red after I added another timer in live tv. 1 that is not red was added with “record button” in live tv. The one that is red was added in the guide.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

What does the timer list show for those 4 timers?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

What is going on with the EPG display? Why is there no event info displayed above the timeline? Why does it appear to have the bottom-section of the (classic) Beyonwiz power button?

[prl]

What does the timer list show for those 4 timers?

Also, which firmware version are we dealing with?

[Blot]

I deleted all the timers. It was not hard to reproduce as this is only the third time I have ever hit record when a show was running.

I am using the latest firmware.

The epg is normal I just did not photograph the whole screen.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

I deleted all the timers. It was not hard to reproduce as this is only the third time I have ever hit record when a show was running.

I think we need to see them.

I am using the latest firmware.

Which is?

The epg is normal I just did not photograph the whole screen.

I use the the Full-Metal-Wizard skin, with the non-PiG Graphical EPG, thus why I couldn't get a handle on why there's the big "power button" and no event info above the EPG timeline, I guess the default skin has that larger button image.

[Blot]

The timer would have started at about 5 minutes past the start of the show as I use no buffer. The bug is probably that the red colour uses the start time of the show.

[Blot]

I just hit record out of the epg again (that is what I mean by saying during live tv) and it is not red when I go into the epg. So it probably always happens if you don’t use a buffer.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

In Perth, that event went from 14:06 - 16:38. Your timer runs from 14:13 - 16:48, thus no complete match. I know you have 0 mins pre-padding, I assume the post-padding is set to 10?
prl has stated he tested with 0-mins pre-padding and couldn't replicate the issue.
It must come down to exactly how you set the timer.

[Blot]

Firmware Version: 19.3_20211010

[Blot]

[Grumpy_Geoff]

That's a silly way to set the record timer.
Bring up the EPG.
Navigate to the event.
Press GREEN>>GREEN.
Observe the red highlighting indicating a timer is set.

[Blot]

Rec ok ok is the same number of presses with better keys and less presses if you are not wanting to close the epg, for example I often just want to press the power button and switch to AppleTV or Blu Ray

A bug is a bug

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Rec ok ok is the same number of presses with better keys and less presses if you are not wanting to close the epg, for example I often just want to press the power button and switch to AppleTV or Blu Ray

Up to you. GREEN>>GREEN does not close the EPG.

A bug is a bug

I don't believe there's a bug. You created an instant timer that has no exact match or superset with an EPG event - thus no "complete" record shading in the EPG.

[Blot]

Sometimes I do not want to open and close the epg and the green button does nothing outside the epg.

In the epg the timer does show red if I create the same timer, so it is a weird bug.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

In the epg the timer does show red if I create the same timer, so it is a weird bug.

But it's not the same timer - it has a different start time; one that does not cover the start of the EPG event.

If you create a timer outside of the EPG, but still want the relevant EPG event to be correctly shaded, then by all means create the timer with begin/end times that either match or are a superset of the event time.

[Blot]

If you create an instant timer in the epg on a current event, it does not cover the start of the EPG event either, so I am not sure you understand. It is very reproducible when setting the timer outside the epg.

Sometimes the red also disappears when setting the currently showing recording in the epg after exiting and coming back in or just setting in the epg, but I have only reproduced those epg ones twice.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

If you create an instant timer in the epg on a current event,

That is not an instant timer. An instant timer is created when you press REC from live TV.

it does not cover the start of the EPG event either, so I am not sure you understand.

Of course it doesn't record the start of the already broadcasting event. However, the resultant timer created from the EPG has a begin time that matches the EPG event's begin time (pre/post padding extends those times further).
Thus, the record timer's start/end times completely cover the EPG event. It is shaded every time. Every. Time.

It is very reproducible when setting the timer outside the epg.

Of course, but why do you want to create a timer without using the EPG, if you then want to turn around and have it match to the EPG but giving only a partial time match?

[Blot]

Ok, I see the timer I set in the epg has a start time before it can possibly have a recording unless timeshift buffer was running. Very confusing.

It would be nice if instant recording had a red colour as it confused the heck out of me the first time it happened.

The red colour has not been there even when setting the recording from the epg one time, no matter how many times I tried to set recordings from the currently showing events…. Then it just “started working”. Another time I set a currently showing timer in the epg, exited and came back soon after and it was no longer red.

So there is probably something that could be improved in the code.

[MrQuade]

Of course it doesn't record the start of the already broadcasting event.

Of course, but why do you want to create a timer without using the EPG, if you then want to turn around and have it match to the EPG but giving only a partial time match?

But a recording set from Live TV can capture the start of the already broadcasting event from timeshift. That would be the reason you'd do it from there.


And yes, doing it that way will not shade the event red since the timer part of the recording will only start from the point where the recording was set, and the pre-existing timeshift buffer gets welded on after the timer completes.


You could probably get the desired behaviour if the "save whole event" action was to set the timer from the start of the event instead of "now".

[prl]

I don't believe there's a bug. You created an instant timer that has no exact match or superset with an EPG event - thus no "complete" record shading in the EPG.

I agree. The red fill indicates that the timer is set for the whole of the show to be recorded. The shows that don't have red fill in the EPG screen shot all have correct markings to show that the program will only be partly recorded (as I described in my earlier post).

Also, timer start times are set differently between pressing REC while in the EPG (which was what I thought had been done in the OP), and pressing REC while watching live TV. Because I thought that REC had been pressed in the EPG, that's what I tested in my earlier posts.

If there is a bug here, it's that setting a timer for a running program from the EPG sets the start time of the timer to the pre-padded start of the program, not to when the recording actually started, but there are actually good reasons for setting the timer to the pre-padded program start when a recording is created in the EPG.

[prl]

You could probably get the desired behaviour if the "save whole event" action was to set the timer from the start of the event instead of "now".

"Save whole event" doesn't necessarily save the beginning of the program, and the timer it creates is one that starts at the time the request to save is made, though it could try to get the program start time from the EPG. When that timer is finished, the recording is stitched together by concatenating the timeshift buffer from the time the request was made with the recording that was started at that time.

The whole timeshift save code is a huge mess of spaghetti.

[Blot]

It is more useful having it red. Then it is easier to see something is recording.