65" or bigger TV

[peteru]

My ancient 55" Series 9 Samsung TV has developed yet another fault. This time it is a deteriorating hot bar connection on LCD flex cable, so it doesn't look like I'll be able to fix it. As a result I'm on the look out for a good replacement TV.

Some criteria to narrow the field:

• 65" or bigger.
• 4K with HDR.
• Good black levels. I suppose this implies a high resolution local dimming backlight or pixels that are a light source.
• Don't care too much about audio or number of inputs, will be feeding it through an AVR.
• Technology agnostic, I have reservations about OLED, but willing to reconsider.
• Not stupidly priced - I can't afford an $8,000 TV.

Looking for suggestions for possible TVs, but also some tips as to what other criteria / specifications to look for.

Also, recommendations as to where to buy at prices better than RRP, but with proper warranty.

Thanks.

[MrQuade]

For what its worth, I think it boils down to either getting an OLED, or a Samsung LCD. I think Samsung have simply got the best of the LCD tech now.

As for OLED, I think it is a choice between Sony and LG.

Sony are a bit more expensive, but their image processing is marginally superior. Their biggest edge is in their motion enhancement engine, but this is something that a cinema purist will switch OFF, so it is not a factor in my personal buying decision. Those wanting the best motion for sport, might want to consider Sony.

The LG Series 9 OLED is currently the TV that supports the most of the HDMI 2.1 features.
Variable Refresh Rate (for gaming primarily).
Full 48Gbps bandwidth for 4:4:4 chroma at 10-bit 4K 60Hz resolutions (important if you hook a PC up)
eARC for lossless audio return to your receiver (if your receiver supports it)


As for HDR Support. Sony and LG support HDR10, HLG and Dolby Vision. Samsung supports HLG, HDR10/HDR10+, but not Dolby Vision.

HDR10+ and Dolby Vision are the HDR modes that support per-scene adjustments, and are thus superior to the more basic HDR10.

I honestly think that OLED has LCD beaten in quality, and the scare campaign about burn in is mostly noise. There are plenty of links to groups that are subjecting a set of OLED TVs to brutal conditions to test their burn-in performance by viewing channels with bright fixed logos and the like, but for any reasonable viewer, there is no issue.

All OLEDs will suffer from a degree of vertical banding that will vary (from set to set) in visibility when you view in very specific low-lit grey scenes. But this is really no different in severity to the problems that LCD have had over the years with screen uniformity.

The LCDs can hit a higher peak brightness than OLEDs, but in practice, that really rarely gets used in any content.

There is also the TV smarts to consider too. I know that some people poo-hoo the smart features, but in some cases, they present the only way to receive some streaming content in full quality (apps on external devices lack the capability or licensing to output Dolby Vision for example).

The LG WebOS is pretty well supported. Sony runs Android TV, but I am not sure what their app ecosystem is like, and Samsung has a very healthy app ecosystem.

Personally, I think that the superior OLED contrast and picture, Dolby Vision support and the full HDMI2.1 capabilities of the LG, coupled with its lower price still makes it a winner in my book. (This is the 9 series btw, the 2019 models. The 7 and 8 series can still be bought in some places, but they lack support for the latest HDMI standards)
I have personally had cause to complain about the way LG handles its HDMI signal negotiation (I think it is garbage), but in the scheme of things it is easy to live with. LG have also brought out some questionable firmware updates, but to their credit, they are still very much supporting my TV which is now two generations old.

I think the 65" remains the sweet spot before prices start climbing very steeply.

I bought my TV via ApplianceCentral's EBay store when they had 20% off. It was a pretty damn good deal at the time, and those are worth looking out for.

[Gully]

For a different perspective, I would go for a Sony LCD as I have been very happy with mine (X9000F).

That's now replaced with the X9500G which may not be much of an improvement but I don't think you would find a 65" X9000F around any more (other sizes are still around which I guess speaks to the popularity of the 65").

As MrQuade said, it is running Android so that makes it pretty straightforward to setup and customise.

I bought mine from JB during a sale but otherwise one of the eBay sales as suggested.

[gibster]

As Gully said, I don't think you can go wrong with the Sony X95G Master series LED TV. I've got the 55" A9F Master Series OLED and I can't say enough about the picture quality. The A9F 65" would be pretty awesome but it's hard to justify the $5999 price tag. I paid $3399 for my 55" and would have loved to get the 65" but couldn't justify the price increase.

I also have a Sony 65" X9000E in my living room and it has a great picture too. The room always has lights on so didn't really want to put an OLED there. My OLED sits in my man cave where its always very low lighting

Gib

[peteru]

On paper the HiSense 75P9 looks like it could be a good TV. Any experiences with Hisense TVs?

[MrQuade]

No direct experience with the Hisense, other than the very cheap sets they make, but I'll chip in with my opinion again. Second-string manufacturers (in general) of high-end TVs can look good on paper, but they fall short on execution. That being said, by all accounts, Hisense have been improving year by year, and may be climbing towards the top rung.

I think that buying a lower-end model of a big name brand is often a better choice than a high-end TV from a smaller brand. The giant corporate machine of the big-name brands leads to a more consistent product.

Edit: Consider the Samsung Q75R (QA75Q75RAWXXY)


Reports from friends and family and random Whingepoolers, some things to consider if you aren't buying from one of the big name brands:

They may buy their panels and parts whatnot from the big boys, but it is the final product execution that is often lacking.

Quality control (panel uniformity, dead/stuck pixels) and material quality can be lacking. Particularly the remote controls are often terrible.

Out of the box calibration/accuracy is not great.

You often miss out on comprehensive picture adjustment options, and the user interface can be very poor in general.

Their picture enhancement controls (noise removal or motion smoothing) are often very basic, and in some cases undefeatable.
Image processing in general is usually adequate, but not cutting edge. I note that on the linked model, that it has four HDMI-INs, 2xHDMI 2.0 and 2xHMI 1.4-only. No HDMI 2.1, but that is a 2018 TV, so that's understandable.

They often lack any decent app support. While the smart features can be performed by external boxes, and it is sometimes preferable to do it that way, sometimes the only way to get certain formats like Dolby Vision is via an app on the TV itself. (mind you, that model you linked is HDR10 only, so perhaps that point is moot).

Ongoing firmware update support for previous-years models can be limited.

[peteru]

I guess I'll need to allocate at least half a day to loitering around a store that has a few of the contending TVs on display and see what they look like.

Seems like the shortlist should have:
OLED:
LG 65" B8 - OLED65B8STB
Sony Bravia 65" A8F - KD65A8F
LCD:
Sony 65" X95G - KD65X9500G

Basically looking at around $3k given the current eBay EOFY sales.

Any other suggestions for specific models to seek out?

Tips for what features to examine in detail when experimenting in store?

[Gully]

Tips for what features to examine in detail when experimenting in store?

It's not going to be a perfect test given shop settings but putting some sample files on a USB to compare the look of the TVs you are considering would be recommendation. It's what I did.

There are plenty around including Dolby Vision ones for the Sony's.

[stevebow]

Any experiences with Hisense TVs?

My only experience with Hisense has been at hotels and the like. The first thing I usually do is check out the TV and adjust it to my liking.

Those that I have seen have all been absolute rubbish. To be fair, hotels are likely to install the low-end product, but even low-end big names have much better quality than Hisense. I swore I'd never buy a Hisense, no matter how attractive the price. In any case, I see you haven't short-listed any.

[stevebow]

Tips for what features to examine in detail when experimenting in store?

Choice has a rather useful article for in-store checks:

https://www.choice.com.au/electronics-a ... a-cheap-tv

[sub3R]

Any experiences with Hisense TVs?

My only experience with Hisense has been at hotels and the like. The first thing I usually do is check out the TV and adjust it to my liking.

Those that I have seen have all been absolute rubbish. ...

I would have to agree with that. I haven't been able to adjust them to my liking though. But then I’m comparing them to our old made in Japan Sony LCD & old Panasonic LCD (Panasonic now being my favourite brand - I don't like the menu layout in Sony).

[stevebow]

I see Choice have recently updated their TV reviews on 04/06:

https://www.choice.com.au/electronics-a ... ompare/tvs

You have to subscribe to see their results, but if you are prepared to part with $1000s for a TV then a 3 months subscription is well worth the investment.

[peteru]

Well good news is that I managed to "fix" the TV by actually disabling a subset of the panel drivers that were stuck. This has eliminated black scanlines and the TV is usable again. Not sure how long this fix will last, but it looks like I managed to delay a new TV purchase for the time being.

Thanks for all the advice though, especially reminding me to not waste time on low end brands. I've always been fairly particular about the picture quality of the TVs I buy, so going Hisense or TCL does not really make sense.

I have not had a chance to look at the Choice write up, but form my past experiences every technology related write up that Choice published and I looked at was inaccurate and misguided garbage that focused on the wrong features. Maybe they have improved now.

In terms of brands, Panasonic is blacklisted in this household due to their customer service and their disregard for the ACL. I am not giving them any money unless they are the only game in town.

The LG OLEDS are certainly strong contenders. I just wish they were more affordable at sizes bigger than 65". Fingers crossed my TV fix will last long enough to see prices for larger screens drop a bit.

[stevebow]

I have not had a chance to look at the Choice write up, but form my past experiences every technology related write up that Choice published and I looked at was inaccurate and misguided garbage that focused on the wrong features. Maybe they have improved now.

Choice of course do cater for your average mums-n-dads consumer rather than the Discerning Connoisseur , but I do find them a good place to trim out the rubbish, then check tech orientated websites for the nitty gritty.

[Altimes]

FWIW recently went through a similar process. Ended up with a "last seasons" LG OLED 65 inch. Replacing a completely dead Panasonic Plasma from 2007 (no real complaints on life). Got a reasonable discount and lucked out that the local HN had a couple of the last few in the county in stock - got the "next day delivery". Perhaps suggests hope that you can hold out until April/May next year and get a 2019 model at a discount

Pros - OLED good picture - I still find it weird that a black scene looks like the display is simply not on. WebOS seems OK ( I gather is the the OS from the tablet that HP abandoned). Had not been user of streaming services but with 4k I bit the bullet and 4k Netflix options are impressive. Comes with both Wifi and Wired ethernet options. Finally got round to hooking up wired, but wireless worked just fine in 5GHZ band (2.4 is just chockers around me). Embedded DLNA Media player does "almost" play Wiz TS files - qualifier being that top and tail is fine, advertisement removal causes it to choke at the first cut point. Included on demand players work as advertised. Oh, the Beyonwiz keyboard works with it as well (picking letters for a search with any remote is a real pain).

Cons - Smart Remote......Mostly it is IR but somethings you have to use the real remote for, so it has to sit alongside the Harmony I have yet to find the "fully off" switch - apart from the power socket.

Incidental I also recently hooked up the optical out of the TV to the (2007) Amp and it does distinctly lift the sound quality from Netflix over the TV speakers.

I belatedly noticed a post from you being on the hunt for a PC case for a NAS box. I do have a case that would have come close to your needs. So if looking for a standby, PM me if you'd like more details (Northern Beaches so not too far from you I think).

Alan.

[MrQuade]

Cons - Smart Remote......Mostly it is IR but somethings you have to use the real remote for, so it has to sit alongside the Harmony I have yet to find the "fully off" switch - apart from the power socket.

What functions do you still need the original remote for? I exclusively use the Harmony, and while I think the LG remote is quite snazzy with its pointer, I haven't needed to use it for any day-to-day uses.

Incidental I also recently hooked up the optical out of the TV to the (2007) Amp and it does distinctly lift the sound quality from Netflix over the TV speakers.

The ARC function works quite well too (now), and I am impressed with the TV's ability to transcode any audio into a compressed format suitable for the ARC/SPDIF limited bitrate. It even re-compresses ATMOS which is something I was surprised at. The 2019 models should be even better in that regard with eARC. When the TV was new, I did have lots of problems with ARC dropping out at random, but I am struggling to remember if I have even seen that happen with the latest firmware.

[Altimes]

What functions do you still need the original remote for?

Not many. Probably more a reflection of my not having mapped the buttons to the Harmony, like the Home Button. I would say the mouse wheel function, but then I am using a 785 so, more recent remotes may help fill that.... And yes, I will say, a couple of months on, I have found no sensible use for the voice control

I had to look up what audio ARC is So with a 2007 Amp I am fairly sure that it does not know about it. I simply purchased a short optical cable and plugged the output from the TV into the optical input that the AMP did have and with a small bit of tweaking it all "just worked" giving full 5.1 surround sound effect. I least now I know to look for eARC function when I have to replace the Amp That gets one less cable in the rats nest behind the AV cabinet.

[prl]

I have not had a chance to look at the Choice write up, but form my past experiences every technology related write up that Choice published and I looked at was inaccurate and misguided garbage that focused on the wrong features. Maybe they have improved now.

I don't think that's changed much, at least for their PVR writeups (and I look to Choice for advice on buying most large non-tech items). I tend to disagree with stevebow - it doesn't really matter what the audience is if what you're writing is just plain wrong. IMO, where the audience does make a difference, though, is how high you rank "usability" and just what you think that means. IMO Choice tends to sometimes confuse "usability" with "lack of configurability or function", so when looking at Choice reviews of tech products, I tend to discount usability scores, or at least give them less weight than Choice uses for their overall ranking.

Often the overall ranking of the top-ranked 5 products hardly differentiates them anyway.

[prl]

There hasn't been much said about quantum dot (QLED) products.

Anyone had any experience with them (I saw a link to one product that uses QLED)? I think that Samsung is the only big-name manufacturer that uses them.

We're also looking (but not hard) for a new TV, probably 53"/135cm.

[MrQuade]

There hasn't been much said about quantum dot (QLED) products.

Anyone had any experience with them (I saw a link to one product that uses QLED)? I think that Samsung is the only big-name manufacturer that uses them.

We're also looking (but not hard) for a new TV, probably 53"/135cm.

I suggested that Samsung was the only LCD screen that I would consider these days. I know Sony have a good reputation, bit I think their technology is falling behind now.

I think that TCL manufacture screens for Samsung and have rights to produce their own QLED screens.
https://youtu.be/rAOTH6RT21I

Not sure I would buy one though.

[prl]

I think that TCL manufacture screens for Samsung and have rights to produce their own QLED screens.
https://youtu.be/rAOTH6RT21I

Not sure I would buy one though.

I couldn't remember who the other manufacturer was, but TCL definitely isn't one I'd list as "big name"

[peteru]

QLED is certainly a good step up in the LCD tech to get wide colour gamut and high brightness. However, as with every other backlit technology, the backlighting design can make or break a display.

The TV that I currently use has 96 zone LED backlight array for a 55", 1080p panel. I would consider that kind of density the barest minimum for a TV with local dimming. I am not at all keen on displays that are only edge-lit.

If you want good colour gamut and HDR, QLED is pretty much a pre-requisite in the non-OLED world.

[Gully]

QLED is certainly a good step up in the LCD tech to get wide colour gamut and high brightness. However, as with every other backlit technology, the backlighting design can make or break a display.

The TV that I currently use has 96 zone LED backlight array for a 55", 1080p panel. I would consider that kind of density the barest minimum for a TV with local dimming. I am not at all keen on displays that are only edge-lit.

If you want good colour gamut and HDR, QLED is pretty much a pre-requisite in the non-OLED world.

These reasons are a few amongst the reasons I was happy to go with the Sony X9000F with its full array local dimming. Works really well.