U4 high pitch noise during operation?

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sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:22

BigBen wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 20:54
Actually didn’t try tapping the 12V, I’m not really sure how, but since the problem didn’t change with the new fan installed (which works fine in my PC) I think it must be the PWM circuit. It’s just strange that running it at 100% duty doesn’t stop the buzzing.
A test of the fan connected to a 12V battery with the U4 switched OFF will conclusively prove that it is the PWM (maybe even resonating something on the main board) or if the fan is a bad fan. :)

If you aren’t sure about tapping into the 12V DC U4 power supply plug pack at the U4 it would be best not to try. It could be done near the rear of the 12V DC IN socket on the U4 but without decent test leads & knowledge of what you are doing, it could get messy.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
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ETA_2016
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by ETA_2016 » Thu May 21, 2020 21:39

Interestingly, you can now buy a replacement fan for the T4 & U4 for $13.95 + delivery.

sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:59

ETA_2016 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 21:39
Interestingly, you can now buy a replacement fan for the T4 & U4 for $13.95 + delivery.
The one we received was slightly different to the original fan in our U4. It required the mounting holes in the bottom of the fan case to be deepened with a suitable size twist drill bit to allow the fan to sit flat against the heat sink (the holes are stepped). I did this by hand with the drill bit in a tap wrench, it would be easy to damage the plastic fan case if an electric drill was used.

The plastic header for the +ve & -ve wires is different to the header on the U4’s original fan & won’t fit to the mother board. The instructions provided with fan suggests removing the plastic from the mother board pins & pushing the fan header onto the bare mother board pins, but I decided to swap the ends by cutting & soldering the wires then insulating with heat shrink.

It sounds a touch noisier than the original fan in our 2nd U4 but works fine. It appears to cool slightly better than the original by one or two degrees using the same settings.

Image shows the original fan on the left & replacement on the right.

P1040200a.JPG
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
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sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:20

sub3R wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:59
... It sounds a touch noisier than the original fan in our 2nd U4 but works fine. It appears to cool slightly better than the original by one or two degrees using the same settings.
Well that replacement fan only lasted from 14-Jan-21 to 23-Mar-22 before it all of a sudden started making a loud screeching noise part way through the U4’s booting cycle with this noise continuing on & off at various volume levels while the U4 was running.

I was never 100% happy with this fan due to it running slightly noisier than the original fan, so I wasn’t surprised that it failed so early. I notice the Beyonwiz shop currently shows the replacement fan as being out of stock.

Has anyone been able to source a decent quality fan to replace these fans?

Not wanting to be without this U4 I decided to see if this fan could be pulled apart, re-greased or re-oiled, then put back together without doing too much damage.

Dismantling & re-oiling/re-greasing the fan.

With the stick-on label gently removed from the fan housing (I re-applied this later, it helps keep dust out of the bush/bearing) it became obvious the challenging part would be to remove the recessed split nylon retaining collar without damaging the collar too much. This collar is just a thin nylon flat washer with a split at one point that allows the collar to expand as it is pushed over the fan spindle into the spindle groove (works like a circlip). The collar is the only thing that holds the two main parts of the fan together (see attached photos).

The first time I dismantled the fan I found the smallest flat blade Jeweller’s screwdriver I had (1.0mm wide) forced into the slot in the collar allowed me to prise the collar off the spindle. This had to be done without too much force for fear of bending the collar too much & possibly cracking the collar.

Before dismantling the fan a second time I decided to make a couple of custom tools to help remove the collar (see attached photo - only one is required). I made these from an old 2.5mm wide x 0.75mm thick stainless steel spline from an SUV rear window wiper blade insert. I ground & shaped the end into a small hook to lift the collar up while spreading the collar at the slot with a 1.4mm wide flat blade Jeweller’s screwdriver. The hole in the plastic fan case is only 4.8mm ID so there wasn’t much room to work.

Looking at the collar after it was removed I suspect a suitable size nylon flat washer with a cut through the washer at one point with a hobby knife could be used if it became damaged too much, but sourcing such a small washer could take some doing. The nylon collar measured 3.5mm OD x 0.4mm thick with an ID of approximately 1.3 to 1.35mm. The spindle measured 1.95mm OD & the groove in the spindle measured 1.3 to 1.35mm OD x 0.5mm wide.

With the collar removed, the fan blade assembly containing the magnets & spindle could now be easily pushed out of the fan housing. The bush the spindle runs in appeared to be a bronze or brass bush (hopefully sintered bronze) that was quite free of any oil or grease but was somewhat dirty.

Long before these fans were in use, the Swedish ABU fishing reel company successfully used sintered bronze bush/bearing instead of stainless steel ball races in their cheaper model ABU Ambassadeur Classic baitcaster fishing reels. These bush/bearings are required to be very lightly oiled every now & again with the porous sintered bronze bush/bearings retaining the oil. The spool on these reels typically revolves at tens of thousands of RPM when casting heavier lures.

Hoping the fan had a sintered bronze bush/bearing of reasonable quality I decided, after thoroughly cleaning the bush/bearing & spindle with 100% Isopropyl Alcohol, to apply a small amount of Tri-Flo Lubricant to the bronze bush/bearing (Tri-Flo is made in the U.S.A, contains Teflon [PTEF] & is rated at -60ºF to +475°F – available from most bicycle shops). Tri-Flo Lubricant is only a very light weight oil.

Not being sure if this fan had a sintered bronze or a brass bush/bearing, I also applied a very light smear of Starbrite PTEF Marine Formula White Teflon grease to the spindle (This is very light grease & is supposed to be impervious to salt & fresh water, highly lubricious, & rated over a -65ºF to +650ºF temperature range – available from Whitworths Marine). I’m in two minds whether adding the Starbrite Teflon grease will work for or against.

Re-assembly was straight forward & easy. So far it is quieter & acceptable for this low quality fan, but whether it stays that way remains to be seen – if it doesn’t I’ll post back. Reports of success rate on the internet range from very short term to long term for re-greasing or re-oiling computer cooling fans. I hope I have re-oiled it before too much wear has taken place.

For anyone wanting to tackle this repair, I suggest in addition to 1.0mm & 1.4mm wide Jeweller’s flat blade screwdrivers; a Jeweller’s loupe, a pair of small needle nose pliers used for electronics work, size No.1 & 2 Phillips head screwdrivers, & a small brush for removing dust from the fan blades. If the nylon collar gets damaged beyond repair, Vernier Callipers would be required to measure for a suitable nylon washer.

Note that the measurements given above are for the replacement ‘QG Hong Xing Shu Electronics Co.’ fan I previously purchased from the Beyonwiz shop. I don’t know how the measurements of the original factory fitted fan compares.

Most of the attached photos are fairly poor quality, but the hopefully they show enough detail.

Nylon-collar-on-the-spindle.jpg
Nylon collar in place on the spindle.
Bush-bearing-after-spindle-removed.jpg
Bush/bearing after removing the spindle.
Spindle-showing-groove-for-collar.jpg
Spindle showing the groove for the collar.
Nylon-collar.jpg
Nylon collar.
Suggested-tools.jpg
Suggested tools.
Tri-Flow-&-Starbrite-PTEF.jpg
Tri-Flow & Starbrite PTEF grease.
Nylon-collar-removal-tools.jpg
Nylon collar removal tool.
Last edited by sub3R on Mon Apr 18, 2022 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
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Half Round
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by Half Round » Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:53

I have used fans from
https://quietpc.com.au/casefans
There is a large variety and they are airmailed in.
You may need to change the plug and/or leave the third sensor disconnected for the U4
cheers
Tony

sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Sun Mar 27, 2022 18:21

Thanks Tony, they have some nice fans but very limited in the 50mm x 50mm size.

I notice the current listed in the specs for the Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case Fan at 12V DC is 150mA compared to 30.5mA I measured for the original one I had in our U4. I don’t know what impact that extra bit of load would have on some of the other components in the U4.

I’ll certainly keep that website in mind.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
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Half Round
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by Half Round » Sun Mar 27, 2022 22:47

Hi Dennis I used a Silent 5 to replace the fan in a T4. The original had a nameplate rating of 80mA. Compared to the original, the Silent 5 was a bit noisier but moved more air, which I wanted. A series resistor would lower the current and noise (as well as airflow).
cheers
Tony

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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Mon Mar 28, 2022 08:36

That’s good news Tony, I was wondering if you had tried one. I’ll give one of those a go, even if I only keep it as a spare.

For anyone wanting to try one of these, & in case this info isn’t supplied with the fan, the GELID solutions website gives the 3 Pin Molex plug wiring (image attached below).

Silent_Fan_Wiring.jpg
Silent_Fan_Wiring.jpg (31.57 KiB) Viewed 1842 times
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:26

Three interesting articles I came across that discusses cooling fan bearings.

Two by National Bronze Mfg.

https://www.nationalbronze.com/News/tip ... -bearings/

https://www.nationalbronze.com/oil-impr ... arings.php

and one by Tom’s Hardware.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/po ... 93-18.html

I found the re-oiling part interesting in the first link; “After machining of the bearings or following loss of oil during storage, immerse in high quality mineral oil (SAE 30) at 140 degrees F to 160 degrees F for 10 to 15 minutes and then cool in cold oil".
I wonder how hard it would be to get the bearing out of the one I re-oiled?

And the part in the last link shows the hydro dynamic bearing (HDB) which is probably similar to what is used in the GELID Solutions Silent 5 fan Half Round made me aware of.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

sub3R
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Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case Fans.

Post by sub3R » Thu Apr 14, 2022 17:28

The two Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case Fans I ordered from Quiet PC Ltd in the UK (https://www.quietpc.com/50mmfans) arrived yesterday. The cost for two fans including air mail was $22.81 AUD, which I thought was very reasonable. Delivery time was 15 days total. They have good prompt communication. It isn’t that obvious on their website; to use PayPal an account needs to be set up & the currency in the account needs to be changed from AUD to GBP (also pay in GBP in PayPal).

At this stage I haven’t fitted either fan.

Using a 12V car battery with dropping resistors (a wire wound pot would have been nice but I don’t have one) & two digital multimeters I measured the following:
  • At 12.86V DC the current is initially a fraction over 150mA (too quick to observe the peak current) & slowly drops down to & settles at 123.5mA after 1 minute 50 seconds.
  • At 12.24V DC it settles at 120mA.
  • At 11.75V DC it settles at 112.5mA.
  • Both fans will start up reliably at 4.86V DC & draw 53.6mA.
  • Both fans will start up reliably at 3.9V DC & draw 40.9mA.
  • Both fans won’t start up at 3.37V DC (draws 29.25mA), but once started at a higher voltage will continue to run at 3.37V.
  • Both fans won’t start up at 3.25V DC (draws 17.21mA), & won’t run at 3.25V once started at a higher voltage.
  • With the fan orientated horizontally with the cables exiting the top, the blades rotate clockwise. On the workbench I can’t hear either fan running.
  • For current comparison; the replacement ‘QG Hong Xing Shu Electronics Co.’ fan I previously purchased from the Beyonwiz shop initially draws ~116mA at 12.86V DC at start up & slowly drops down to & settles at 99.5mA after 2 minutes. And going by my earlier tests, the original fan fitted to our U4 draws a steady 30.5mA at 12.0V DC.
See the following post for modifications required to fit this fan to a U4.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
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Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case Fans.

Post by sub3R » Sat Apr 16, 2022 18:21

The previous post has been updated.

Fitting the Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case fan to the U4 only required minor modifications.
  • The clearance from the top of the SoC heatsink (where the fan attaches) to the underneath side of the U4’s top cover is 20mm. The depth of the original fan & the replacement ‘QG Hong Xing Shu Electronics Co.’ fan from the Beyonwiz shop measures 12mm, whereas the ‘Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case’ fan measures 15mm.
  • Due to the extra 3mm depth, two longer mounting screws were required. I used two 20mm M3 stainless steel pan head machine screws & fitted a flat washer to each (these protruded a couple of mm through the bottom of the two rivnuts). The two round head M3 machine screws for the original fan were 11mm.
  • The three 450mm long wires on the fan were cut shorter, separated, and the +12V & ground (-ve) wires soldered to the existing fan header wires (+12V to red, & ground –ve to black) & insulated with 2.0mm ID heat shrink tubing. The unused fan speed signal wire was looped back on itself & insulated with heat shrink tubing. The insulation can tear back to bare copper when separating the three wires if enough care isn’t taken. See the post here for the description of the three wires.
The fan runs very quiet & so far the SoC temperature is comparable with the other U4 which still has the original fan. The fan speed settings are the same on both U4s (the standby setting is increased from the default to about 60% of maximum). Only time will tell if the extra current this fan draws has any impact on the other hardware in the U4.

Silent-5-fan-on-U4_a.jpg
Silent 5 fan fitted to U4.
Last edited by sub3R on Sat Apr 30, 2022 21:05, edited 2 times in total.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Mon Apr 18, 2022 18:10

sub3R wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:26
I wonder how hard it would be to get the bearing out of the one I re-oiled?
I could probably get it out but I think the bush/bearing or the frame may get damaged when removing or replacing, so I didn’t attempt it.

I have edited my earlier post about re-oiling the replacement ‘QG Hong Xing Shu Electronics Co.’ fan I previously purchased from the Beyonwiz shop here to include measurements & another method for removing the nylon collar.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

Star6key
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by Star6key » Fri Apr 29, 2022 19:32

The fan in my U4 is starting to sound like a very hungry cat, so the Gelid fan sounds like a winner. Thanks for the detailed instructions Sub3r. :)

sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Sat Apr 30, 2022 21:15

Star6key wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 19:32
The fan in my U4 is starting to sound like a very hungry cat,...
Mine sounded like I was standing on its tail.
Star6key wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 19:32
... so the Gelid fan sounds like a winner.
Yes, so far I'm quite happy with it. :)
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

sub3R
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Re: U4 high pitch noise during operation?

Post by sub3R » Thu May 26, 2022 20:32

Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case fan

I’ve noticed over the last week the Gelid Solutions Silent 5, 50mm Quiet Case fan I fitted to the U4 has randomly started to make more noise than normal during boot-up from deep standby. During this period the fan is running flat out. Once the U4 boots up it is slowed down by the software & quietens down to normal.

For some strange reason it has only randomly started to do this during boot-up first thing in the morning about 3 to 4 hours after my last epg refresh timer sends the U4 to deep standby. I can’t replicate this during the daytime by putting the U4 back to deep standby after this first boot-up of the day.

I don’t think there is anything to worry about, but if it gets any worse I’ll comment in this topic.

The Good Oil (TSI 321)

I haven’t tried this TSI 321 synthetic lubricant for re-oiling fan bush type bearings, but it is recognised as being about the best you can get for re-oiling bearings in baitcaster fishing reels. It is apparently compatible with most plastics except PMMA (polymethyl methacrylate) and PVB (poly-vinyl butyral) plastics. The links at the bottom of that webpage will take you to ‘Specifications’ & ‘More Information’, the latter having some interesting information.

I intend to purchase some for my baitcasters so I’ll try it on the U4 fan I recently re-oiled.

Here are just a couple of reviews.

If anyone wants to try it, it is available from AFT – Australasian Fishing Tackle.
Dennis
U4, Bluey USB tuner, WizTV > Yamaha RX-V3900 > Sony KDL46X2000 TV ||
U4, Bluey USB tuner > Sony KD-43X85J TV > Yamaha YAS-209 || FTA EPG ||
Harmony 650s || (U4s on 19.3.20200901 & T2 on 19.3.20200823) ||
Technicolor DJA0230TLS modem/router, Ethernet LAN, Win10 Home 64 ||

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