U4

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MrQuade
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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Sat Nov 11, 2017 00:47

Grumpy_Geoff wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 20:55
Bad reply by me. What I meant to include was your comment - "A WD Blue 1TB would be my choice though." before my reply of "Not any Blue".
My suggestion of the WD10SPZX was to answer two queries using the one drive (i) is WD10SPZX an SMR drive (price and cache seem to suggest so), and (ii) if so, how does it go when you 'smash it with writes'
Hmm, you could be right. The 128MB model runs quieter which would suggest fewer (higher density) platters. I wish the manufacturers were a little more up front with their specs across the board. The lower cache versions are also significantly more expensive (ouch)!!

Either way, I'll grab a shingled drive and give it what for.
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Re: U4

Post by IanB » Sat Nov 11, 2017 07:39

Why are we not mentioning "WD Blue 2TB Mobile 15mm Hard Drive - 5400 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 2.5 Inch - WD20NPVZ" ~$150 ?

The 15mm height rules them out for many laptops, but for a T2 or U4 that is not an issue.

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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Sat Nov 11, 2017 09:06

IanB wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 07:39
Why are we not mentioning "WD Blue 2TB Mobile 15mm Hard Drive - 5400 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 2.5 Inch - WD20NPVZ" ~$150 ?
Because I've not been able to find a retailer that stocks any.
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Re: U4

Post by sub3R » Sat Nov 11, 2017 09:31

MrQuade wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 09:06
IanB wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 07:39
Why are we not mentioning "WD Blue 2TB Mobile 15mm Hard Drive - 5400 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 2.5 Inch - WD20NPVZ" ~$150 ?
Because I've not been able to find a retailer that stocks any.
ACO can get a couple. See here.

BTW - I didn’t buy one, I've had a history of a lot of failures with WD drives except for the wonderful WD R3/R4 3.5” drives.

I put this Hitachi Travelstar 2.5" 1TB 5K1000 5400rpm HDD in my T2 & so far I like it. It runs fairly cool in the T2.
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Re: U4

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:44

IanB wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 07:39
Why are we not mentioning "WD Blue 2TB Mobile 15mm Hard Drive - 5400 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 2.5 Inch - WD20NPVZ" ~$150 ?

The 15mm height rules them out for many laptops, but for a T2 or U4 that is not an issue.

It has been previously mentioned in this thread, and also in the "Suggested 2.5" HDD for T2" thread.
I've one in my T2.

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Re: U4

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:55

MrQuade wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 09:06
IanB wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 07:39
Why are we not mentioning "WD Blue 2TB Mobile 15mm Hard Drive - 5400 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 2.5 Inch - WD20NPVZ" ~$150 ?
Because I've not been able to find a retailer that stocks any.

I bought my WD Blue WD20NPVZ last December from Austin Computers.
I phoned them this morning, they have 3 x WD20NPVZ due to arrive next Friday. The bloke stated they also had the Green versions in stock (I'd already seen those Green WD20NPVX listed @ $159, whereas Blue WD20NPVZ is $184).

CPL state that the WD20NPVZ is in stock - http://cplonline.com.au/hard-drives/lap ... drive.html
With Stone Computers, I'm not sure of the availability in their listing - http://www.stonecomputers.com.au/produc ... ctid=16879

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Re: U4

Post by Helix70 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 17:04

Ok, so i understand what shingled magnetic recording is. Why is it bad for the Beyonwiz? Unreliable? Slower?

Also, does anyone have any experience with the quality of the tuners in the U4, especially compared to the DP-P2, which I find a bit less sensitive than other devices.

Regards

Josh

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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Sat Nov 11, 2017 17:08

Helix70 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 17:04
Ok, so i understand what shingled magnetic recording is. Why is it bad for the Beyonwiz? Unreliable? Slower?
We *suspect* it is worse, but unsure if it makes a practical difference.

Because a shingled drive may often need to first read existing data and then write it back down when it is writing new data, the write performance of these drives is unpredictable and can often tank down into pretty dismal throughput levels. For a PVR whose sole purpose is to write large files to a harddisk, this *could* be detrimental.

Some extra info that pops up with a cursory Google search.
http://www.storagereview.com/what_is_sh ... ording_smr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingled_ ... _recording
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Re: U4

Post by HarryHoudini » Sun Nov 12, 2017 09:15

Whats the general consensus on the Toshiba(MQ01ABO?) 5400 drives that i've seen mentioned in this Thread.
I've noticed on other Forums that users are happy with them for PVR's.

Anyone using them in BW's.?

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Re: U4

Post by bpratt » Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:18

This is the main downside to me getting a U4 is the 2.5" form factor, as I'd like to get a 2Tb drive when I order a U4 BB , but can't seem to find vendor that sells them at the moment at a reasonable price.

My regular supplied MSY only sell the Seagate drives, as what's been said in the last several posts concerns me.

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Re: U4

Post by cwiggles » Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:40

bpratt wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:18
This is the main downside to me getting a U4 is the 2.5" form factor, as I'd like to get a 2Tb drive when I order a U4 BB , but can't seem to find vendor that sells them at the moment at a reasonable price.

My regular supplied MSY only sell the Seagate drives, as what's been said in the last several posts concerns me.
Well Scorptec have a

- 2TB HDDs. Seagate 2TB FireCuda 2.5inch HDD, SATA III, 5400RPM, 128MB, Flash Accelerated Technology)

This is a hybrid SSD/Mechanical drive, and as far as I can tell, are not shingled. Scorptec have them for 149.00. Not sure what your budget or price bracket it though, so it may be more than what you want to pay. They also have

- Seagate 2TB BarraCuda HDD, 2.5", SATA III, 5400RPM, 128MB, 7mm @ $138.00
- Western Digital WD 2TB Blue, SATA III, 5200RPM, 8MB, 15mm Height @ $199.00

As far as I can determine, none of these drives use SMR and are PMR based drives, but I am finding it hard to locate any definitive source of which Seagate (or other vendors) drives employ SMR.

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Re: U4

Post by prl » Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:53

cwiggles wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:40
... As far as I can determine, none of these drives use SMR and are PMR based drives ...

SMR and PMR aren't mutually exclusive. The Seagate SMR drives also use PMR.
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Re: U4

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:13

cwiggles wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:40
...As far as I can determine, none of these drives use SMR and are PMR based drives, but I am finding it hard to locate any definitive source of which Seagate (or other vendors) drives employ SMR.

Craig

Scorptec -
Seagate BarraCuda ST2000LM015
Seagate FireCuda ST2000LX001

I think you'll find the FireCuda's are SMR drives -
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10760/se ... gb-of-nand

The 2TB BarraCude is also SMR -
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10757/se ... b-capacity

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Re: U4

Post by netmask » Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:09

netmask wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 16:30
So if cost is not an issue what is the best drive to get - brand and size? Thoughts
OK OK clearly I need to be a bit more specific - too many literalists :shock:

Best drive model from a technical standpoint - reliability, longevity, quietness, etc
Size 1TB is adequate
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Re: U4

Post by nylonnet » Mon Nov 13, 2017 15:21

All that follows is opinion. Your needs may vary.

The best disk size will depend on your personal viewing habits. I used to have a 4TB drive when I had little time to catch up on recordings.
Now I am retired, I have more time, and a little 240GB SSD is now perfect.
When I had a 4TB HDD, I had two-year-old recordings to catch up with!
One day I forced myself to actually preview them - and deleted 90% of them in about 10 minutes because they were rubbish or irrelevant.

I can get about 60 half-hour shows on my 240GB SSD (assuming an average 4GB per half hour of HD recordings) . That's about 9 a day - far more than I actually use, even if a 1 or 2 hour movie or doco is occasionally included. And since I have time to watch and delete stuff during the week, I have yet to fill the little 240GB SSD.

Tip: If you are stretched for capacity, you can turn off or size-limit the drive's recycle bin.

The best disk size for you depends on how much you record per day/week, and how much you can watch and delete recordings.
No-one but you can work that out.
If I were you, I'd take note of the total size of your recordings that are still on your device after 1 week.
You might find that a multi-terabyte fancy-pants disk is overkill.

I would not spend megabucks on a Wiz HDD. Even if the HDD went belly-up, it's only TV - you can often record shows again via repeats in the next day or two, or you can use iView or similar to catch up on lost shows. (Cough - or you can torrent most of them. )
A buggered Wiz disk is not life-threatening. If a recording IS vital, copy it to another device.

So, my advice:

- if you have modest recording needs, use an SSD if you already have one lying around. It's silent, cool, fast and uses little electricity.
- if you have any 2.5" or 3.5" HDD of about 1TB or bigger, use that. I would not worry about shingles, speed, red/green/blue labels, etc.
- if you must buy a disk, nearly any 2.5" or 3.5" HDD would do. Go cheap - as I said above, if you do have vital recordings, back them up to another device, e.g. USB, NAS.
- if you want/need to buy an SSD, wait until 2018. I've read rumours that SSD prices will soon drop dramatically.
- if you want/need to buy an HDD, I have had no problems with WD disks. Actually, I've had no problems with Seagate either in the past few decades. I think for Wiz purposes, they're all much of a muchness.

IMO, worrying too much about a Wiz disk is unnecessary.
Just back up essential recordings.
If your disk does die - and realise that is still a very rare event - just shrug, toss in a new disk, format it, and move on. No-one has yet died from losing an episode of Ellen.

Your mileage may vary.

Regards
Mark
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Re: U4

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:46

cwiggles wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:40
... but I am finding it hard to locate any definitive source of which Seagate (or other vendors) drives employ SMR.

Straight from the horses mouth -

BarraCuda - ST2000LM015, ST1000LM048, ST500LM030...
Rev. B "5: Recording technology bullet changed to SMR"
1.0 Introduction
...
• SeaToolsTM diagnostic software performs a drive self-test that eliminates unnecessary drive returns.
Shingled magnetic recording with perpendicular magnetic recording heads/media.
• State-of-the-art cache and on-the-fly error-correction algorithms.
https://www.seagate.com/www-content/pro ... 07728d.pdf

FireCuda - ST2000LX001, ST1000LX015, ST500LX025
Rev. D "5: Add MTC bullet & change Perpendicular recording to SMR"
1.0 Introduction
...
• SeaToolsTM diagnostic software performs a drive self-test that eliminates unnecessary drive returns.
Shingled magnetic recording with perpendicular magnetic recording heads/media.
• State-of-the-art cache and on-the-fly error-correction algorithms.
https://www.seagate.com/www-content/pro ... 02299e.pdf

BarraCuda 3TB, 4TB, 5TB 2.5" models shown to be SMR in this post here on page 4.

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Re: U4

Post by mick_queensland » Tue Nov 14, 2017 09:43

HarryHoudini wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 09:15
Whats the general consensus on the Toshiba(MQ01ABO?) 5400 drives that i've seen mentioned in this Thread.
I've noticed on other Forums that users are happy with them for PVR's.

Anyone using them in BW's.?
Hi Harry, I started the thread Suggested 2.5" HDD for T2 viewtopic.php?f=53&t=11635 in the hardware discussion area. It was a good discussion which applies to the U4 as well. There is a real difficulty in obtaining a decent sized 2.5" HDD at the moment. I decided to go for the Toshiba 1TB drive as it is the only 2.5" drive I could find where the manufacturer suggests a TV recorder as possible usage. I found one for sale at a very reasonable price at Umart Online and bought it. It is in my T2 and working fine. I cannot hear it and it does not get hot, records fine and playback is good. My only disappointment is that it is not 2TB. I could not find a decent 2TB 2.5" drive for a reasonable price.
My idea is to wait for prices to drop on SSDs, then update. As for my new U4 I ordered I chose to get it with a 2TB installed since I couldnt beat the price. I just hope that its not a Seagate drive.
Cheers, Mick
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Re: U4

Post by marcuskmt » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:24

I have an old Beyonwiz P2 that struggles with 1080 and certain mkv files from USB.

Will this U4 handle those files better from USB via the front port?

I assume it will since it plays h.265?

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Re: U4

Post by prl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55

mick_queensland wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 09:43
... I started the thread Suggested 2.5" HDD for T2 viewtopic.php?f=53&t=11635 in the hardware discussion area. It was a good discussion which applies to the U4 as well. ...

There is about 5mm more space between the drive caddy and the top of the cabinet in the U4 than in the T2, so ventilation for 15mm high drives in the U4 should be slightly better than in the T2.

Otherwise I agree.
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Re: U4

Post by mick_queensland » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:59

prl wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:17

The U4 is sold as a quad tuner, but it only has 3 internal tuners, so IMO should really be being sold as a U3, since in that respect it's more like the T3 than the T4.
A lot of people agree with that, including me. Maybe they should have called it a U4k instead ... or maybe a U3-4k
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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:17

marcuskmt wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:24
I have an old Beyonwiz P2 that struggles with 1080 and certain mkv files from USB.

Will this U4 handle those files better from USB via the front port?

I assume it will since it plays h.265?
The DP series has quite limited support for more recent file formats and resolutions. The T series should have had no trouble playing those 1080 .mkv files, and the U4 is even more capable in that regard.

That said, you can't say 100% for certain without details of those files. (I think you are 99.5% safe though ;))
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Re: U4

Post by stu_h » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:59

MrQuade wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:17

The DP series has quite limited support for more recent file formats and resolutions. The T series should have had no trouble playing those 1080 .mkv files, and the U4 is even more capable in that regard.

That said, you can't say 100% for certain without details of those files. (I think you are 99.5% safe though ;))
This is whats prompting my update.

My DP-P1 has worked flawlessly for 10 years (?) but theres more and more files it wont play that i have to chromecast instead.. so time for a refresh !

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Re: U4

Post by marcuskmt » Tue Nov 14, 2017 13:20

cwiggles wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:40
... but I am finding it hard to locate any definitive source of which Seagate (or other vendors) drives employ SMR.

BarraCuda - ST2000LM015, ST1000LM048, ST500LM030...




1. Why aren't you guys just buying the U4 with a HDD pre-installed?
2. Is it difficult to install a BYO HDD?
3. Is the above BarraCuda the recommended value HDD for the U4?
4. What other HDD from MSY would you recommend for the U4? Is it just the 2.5" drives?

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Re: U4

Post by nylonnet » Tue Nov 14, 2017 13:44

marcuskmt wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 13:20

1. Why aren't you guys just buying the U4 with a HDD pre-installed?
2. Is it difficult to install a BYO HDD?
3. Is the above BarraCuda the recommended value HDD for the U4?
4. What other HDD from MSY would you recommend for the U4? Is it just the 2.5" drives?
1. Beyonwiz pre-installed HDDs have tended to be rather more expensive than you can get them on the street.
2. If you can use a screwdriver, installing a drive is a simple plug-in job. Then go to settings and format the disk. Done.

I've posted recently about my philosophy behind drive choices for the Wiz:
- Go cheap.
- Wiz disks are rarely mission-critical. If it fails, toss it and bung in a newbie.
- Back up important files (such as the evening news' coverage of your uncle's arrest in Thailand)
- Choose the capacity you need. It may surprise you how much even a sub-terabyte disk can hold.

I'd be surprised if you saw any real performance/reliability differences between most brands/models of drives.
IMO, arguing about Wiz drives may be fun, but it is like discussing whether pine toothpicks are better than beech toothpicks.
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Re: U4

Post by mick_queensland » Tue Nov 14, 2017 14:11

beech toothpicks are better imho...
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Re: U4

Post by nylonnet » Tue Nov 14, 2017 14:16

mick_queensland wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 14:11
beech toothpicks are better imho...
But they're shingled...
Wiz U4 (500GB SSD)
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- Harmony 650
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Re: U4

Post by mick_queensland » Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:09

its ok, I have been vaccinated for that!!
V2 1TB SSD -> LG OLED C3 4K 48"; U4-1TB -> LG OLED C2 4K 65", Yamaha RX-V385 AV Receiver, Headphone Amp, Beyer DT-990 phones, Pioneer BDP-140; T2 1TB HDD -> Samsung UA43tu8000w Smart TV 43"; T3-2000 -> GVA G48tv15 48"; IceTV, GB LAN, NAS 3TB RAID1

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Re: U4

Post by marcuskmt » Tue Nov 14, 2017 19:32

Just wondering if the U4 is worth getting now with the $50 off?

You can get a similar Panasonic with HDD and blu-ray capability for similar or less that the Beyonwiz.

I'm thinking to wait for reviews as it's only a $50 saving and if I do want one, I can always get it in the boxing day sales where I am sure it will be at least $50 off?

How did you guys justify the pre-order?

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Re: U4

Post by cwiggles » Tue Nov 14, 2017 19:48

prl wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:53
cwiggles wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:40
... As far as I can determine, none of these drives use SMR and are PMR based drives ...

SMR and PMR aren't mutually exclusive. The Seagate SMR drives also use PMR.
Thanks for the correction PRL.

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Re: U4

Post by cwiggles » Tue Nov 14, 2017 19:51

Grumpy_Geoff wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:13

I think you'll find the FireCuda's are SMR drives -
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10760/se ... gb-of-nand

The 2TB BarraCude is also SMR -
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10757/se ... b-capacity
Thanks for the clarification and those links. I originally looked on Seagtes website under the drives tech specs, and there was no mention of them being SMR.

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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Tue Nov 14, 2017 19:53

marcuskmt wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 19:32
Just wondering if the U4 is worth getting now with the $50 off?

You can get a similar Panasonic with HDD and blu-ray capability for similar or less that the Beyonwiz.
It all comes down to what capabilities do you want from your PVR? The Beyonwiz units are quite different to your average big brand devices. The Panasonic will be good for playing discs and streaming services, but the Wiz will be a far more capable PVR which can stream live and recorded shows to networked devices and will allow you to save and edit the recordings for archival. The Wiz will also most likely be more capable when it comes to paying your locally stored media files which have been obtained by erm.... Other means.
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Re: U4

Post by HarryHoudini » Thu Nov 16, 2017 09:40

mick_queensland wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 09:43
Hi Harry, I started the thread Suggested 2.5" HDD for T2 viewtopic.php?f=53&t=11635 in the hardware discussion area. It was a good discussion which applies to the U4 as well. There is a real difficulty in obtaining a decent sized 2.5" HDD at the moment. I decided to go for the Toshiba 1TB drive as it is the only 2.5" drive I could find where the manufacturer suggests a TV recorder as possible usage. I found one for sale at a very reasonable price at Umart Online and bought it. It is in my T2 and working fine. I cannot hear it and it does not get hot, records fine and playback is good. My only disappointment is that it is not 2TB. I could not find a decent 2TB 2.5" drive for a reasonable price.
My idea is to wait for prices to drop on SSDs, then update. As for my new U4 I ordered I chose to get it with a 2TB installed since I couldnt beat the price. I just hope that its not a Seagate drive.
Cheers, Mick
Thanks for the reply Mick.,local Computer shop only uses Toshiba HDD in Laptop repairs and i was wondering how they went in a PVR environment. I've ordered a U4 so will throw a Toshiba 1Tb in and see how it goes.

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Re: U4

Post by bjbaker » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:04

marcuskmt wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 19:32
Just wondering if the U4 is worth getting now with the $50 off?

You can get a similar Panasonic with HDD and blu-ray capability for similar or less that the Beyonwiz.

I'm thinking to wait for reviews as it's only a $50 saving and if I do want one, I can always get it in the boxing day sales where I am sure it will be at least $50 off?

How did you guys justify the pre-order?
I was saving up for a T4 to replace an ailing P1. When the failure of the P1 was imminent, and I had saved up enough for a T4, they were discontinued. I pre-ordered a diskless U4 because I have both a NAS and a spare 120GB SSD. I also did another very needed retread of the P1 PSU (thanks warkus) to last the distance to U4 delivery. I committed to the U4 pre-release as I was confident it would not be a dud, based on Beyonwiz past performance. The external power supply addressed the weak point I had encountered with the P1 & P2. I also, would have called it the U3. But that's a minor quibble.
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Re: U4

Post by bpratt » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:48

Well I've pre-ordered my U3+ BB :) so now just for the wait for them to hit our shores.

Like some others, it was to be a T4, but glad how things panned out, as I didn't want to do what I did last time, and that was get a T3 just before the T4's came out. The T3 is the only Beyonwiz that I've been less than impressed with.

Now to work out what HD to get for it, but tending to go for a Toshiba 1Tb drive.

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Re: U4

Post by Bradmc » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:59

Hi.

New to beyonwizandlookingfordvr to replace Foxtel. Been doing lots of research and the u4 looks a good option.reallyonly after single source of live tv channels and recording etc, rather than streaming services, anda iLife to streamto a SmartView_Frame inanother room any recordings. Can anyone advise how user friendly the u4 will be for non tech savvy family (I.e. the wife) to record and channel surf fta tv.

Also do you know if the u4 will come with ssd or hdd. Noise being the main reason for a ssd

Thanks

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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Thu Nov 16, 2017 13:22

Bradmc wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:59
Can anyone advise how user friendly the u4 will be for non tech savvy family (I.e. the wife) to record and channel surf fta tv.
The Beyonwiz PVRs are a bit harder to initially set-up when compared to something like a Foxtel box or a TiVo, but once set up, they are quite easy to use. As with any device, there will always be a learning curve before users are fully comfortable with a device's particular idiosyncrasies.

The Beyonwiz T and U series offer a *ton* of features for the power user, and mastering some of those can be tricky, but for day-to-day use, these should not get in anyone's way. All the basic recording features, media playback and live TV viewing, are pretty standard.

You may encounter some fun when setting up things like automatic series recordings. The Beyonwiz uses a feature called "Autotimers" for this purpose. Autotimers, just scan the EPG and look for matching keywords and times that you specify. These take a little bit of nouse to set up at first, but mostly just operate happily in the background without any user interaction once made. The alternative for series recordings is to subscribe to the paid IceTV subscription service. IceTV offers a web-based internet service for automatically setting recordings on your Beyonwiz unit. There are many users on the forums who use Autotimers, and IceTV, (and sometimes a mix of both).
Bradmc wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:59
Also do you know if the u4 will come with ssd or hdd. Noise being the main reason for a ssd
The U4 takes any SATA 2.5" HDD or SSD in its internal HDD bay. The Beyonwiz U4 store page offers HDDs with 1TB, 2TB, and 4TB HDD options, as well as an option to buy one without a harddisk so that you can supply your own. You can fit your own SSD if you like, and the procedure is pretty straightforward.
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Re: U4

Post by nylonnet » Thu Nov 16, 2017 13:26

Bradmc wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:59
Hi.

New to beyonwizandlookingfordvr to replace Foxtel. ...
I'm thinking you might want to buy a keyboard with a working spacebar before getting a new DVR :D
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Re: U4

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Thu Nov 16, 2017 14:14

Bradmc wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:59
... New to beyonwizandlookingfordvr to replace Foxtel. Been doing lots of research and the u4 looks a good option.reallyonly after single source of live tv channels and recording etc, rather than streaming services, anda iLife to streamto a SmartView_Frame inanother room any recordings. Can anyone advise how user friendly the u4 will be for non tech savvy family (I.e. the wife) to record and channel surf fta tv. ...

A T2 would appear to fit your demands. They are priced at $199 for a barebones unit, and you could then fit your choice of an SSD or HDD. I have a T2 with a 2TB WD Blue drive in it and it is pretty quiet; even with the TV off I have to get right up close to hear it.
https://beyonwiz.com.au/product-category/t2/

The UI for will be the same for a U4 or T2 (apart from features where the units physically differ). My son was 8 when he first started to use the T2, and he can navigate from live TV to the recordings list, in and out of folders per series, and play recordings and use the skip buttons (I've 10 set) to navigate within the recordings. As MrQuade has stated, the set up will take some time to master and the initial learning curve will be steep.

Have you had a look at the videos:
on the Beyonwiz web site - "Help and How to Videos"
or in the forum - "T2 / T3 / T4 FAQs, Tips & How to Guides"

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Re: U4

Post by BigbobOz » Thu Nov 16, 2017 21:20

marcuskmt wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 19:32
How did you guys justify the pre-order?
If you have used a T series the U4 should be very familiar in use, the changes are more hardware related. I suspect that's how most are comfortable with the pre-order.

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Re: U4

Post by mick_queensland » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:45

Hi, just to reinforce what has already been said here regards the noise of a 2.5" HDD.

You will have trouble hearing it while sitting a few metres away. To test my T2-1TB Toshiba HDD, I recorded TV, and played back a file and listened. I have my Aircon running and the usual house sounds during the day (no kids, no TV sound, nothing other than the AC and fridges). At 1m or more I could not hear the T2 over the other noises. At 0.5m I could just make out the whirr of the HDD recording. At less than 0.25m I could hear the T2 clearly. So, if you have a particularly quiet room for your media play back then you maybe able to hear it more easily than I can hear mine. nb: my hearing is fine btw :lol:

I would expect other brands hard drives to be similarly quiet. Laptop drives are known to be quieter than their big brothers. Well, that's what I know about the "normal" type HDD. Has anyone tested one of the new very large capacity 2.5" HDDs? (eg 4TB or larger)

OK, an SSD is silent but it is a premium price to pay for the silence.

To compare the T2 to my home network equipment which includes 2 NASs (4 bay 9TB RAID5 Thecus N4100evo using WD RED 3TB drives) & (2 bay 3TB RAID1 Dlink ShareCenter DNS320L using WD RED 3TB drives) a Netgear Router R7000 and Netgear managed 16 port switch and a microUPS etc etc. This stuff is loud! as in LOUD. It is all installed in a separate office area where the noise doesn't bother anyone. Actually it is a little bit bothersome when I am using my computer but not bad. The worst offender is the Thecus NAS. This type of equipment needs to be in another room from your TV.

cheers, Mick
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Re: U4

Post by Ukind » Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:01

I have pre ordered a barebones unit. Someone said about getting a smaller SSD I think that I will do the same thing. Personally I don't like having too much stuff sitting there waiting to be watched.

I was thinking of a Samsung 500gb SSD but did notice that the sandisk units are a bit cheaper. Any suggestions on what to get?

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Re: U4

Post by glen » Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:19

Don't know if it is true or not but I read that the Sumsung EVO series can write considerably more to their SSD memory cells before the memory cells wear out. I don't have any specifications to prove that statement though.

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Re: U4

Post by peteru » Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:51

Most SSD manufacturers will give you the specs on the expected endurance of the drive. The more TB per year you can write, the better. Don't forget, with timeshift turned on, the Beyonwiz will be writing to the SSD any time you record anything or watch TV, live or timeshifted. If you are not in the habit of putting the box into standby when you are not watching, that can add up to a lot of hours of constant writing.

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Re: U4

Post by prl » Fri Nov 17, 2017 16:29

peteru wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:51
Most SSD manufacturers will give you the specs on the expected endurance of the drive. ...

It was easy to find this information for the Samsung EVO 850 500GB (didn't look at newer models), it's guaranteed for up to 5 years and 150 TB written, whichever comes first. The EVO 850 1TB, the same. The EVO 2TB & 4TB are guaranteed for 5 years or 300TB written.

I couldn't readily find the same information for the Sandisk Ultra II 480GB. They only mention a 3-year warranty.
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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Fri Nov 17, 2017 16:34

Personally, I wouldn't be bothered looking past the Samsung EVO series. For price to performance, reliability and availability, they are pretty top notch. I have 1TB models in both my and my wife's desktop PCs and haven't had any complaints, which seems to match the general feedback I encounter from others.
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Re: U4

Post by mick_queensland » Fri Nov 17, 2017 22:46

SSD vs HDD the old question. So if you do not want to spend a lot use a HDD. If money isn't a problem the go for the SSD. I doubt you will notice much difference in the U4. Performance wise they are similar with write speeds, the limit being the data stream we record in a PVR. However, saying that, if anyone can tell me how their SSD goes during playback, skipping forward or backward, I would love to know how that compares to a HDD. Is it smoother and faster??

Anyway, I recently read a test done by ExtremeTech called "Which SSDs are the most reliable?" This test pushed different brand SSDs to failure. A lot of them made it past 1PB write and some made it to 2PB write. (and remember that writing is the hardest thing a drive will do in any PVR) A PVR drive writes far more data than a PC. Only a surveillance drive compares to a PVR with writes. For our PVR a rough calculation assuming you record 1 TV show of 2 hours once per day in HD every day for a year results in about 3.5TB of writes. Your mileage varies depending on your use of course (how much you record, your padding, SD vs HD, etc). Surveillance drives are tuned for approx 1.8TB writes per year (from Seagate surveillance drives) Anyway, back to the SSDs, if they can write 1PB before failing then they will last approx 275 years before failure. So they will likely outlast any PVR.

What I am saying here is that the SSD will probably do just fine in the PVR, and probably better than a HDD. Its up to you if you want to spend the extra cash on an SSD .

Just my opinion :) Mick
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Re: U4

Post by cwiggles » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:20

Hi all,

well one aspect of using an SSD in a PVR which I do not think has been covered yet is if the underlying OS the PVR uses implements TRIM or not. Before TRIM support was added, the write speeds of SSDs dropped quite significantly as the disk usage increased. When the SSD was almost full it was almost unusable. At that time most people had to reformat the SSD to get the performance back. To combat this TRIM was devised and implemented, and the OS drivers need to implement it. So the question is do the disk drivers that the linux distro the BW T/U series use support TRIM? I would hope so, esp given how long TRIM has been around, but if it's one thing I've learnt in it, NEVER assume anything.

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Re: U4

Post by MrQuade » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:26

cwiggles wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:20
So the question is do the disk drivers that the linux distro the BW T/U series use support TRIM? I would hope so, esp given how long TRIM has been around, but if it's one thing I've learnt in it, NEVER assume anything.
Yes, it was included quite a long time ago.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=9177&p=122684#p122684

Even without TRIM, I doubt that performance would degrade to a level that this would become a serious bottleneck for the modest requirements of a PVR (even with 16 recordings and a timeshift running).
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Re: U4

Post by Grumpy_Geoff » Tue Nov 21, 2017 21:25

Grumpy_Geoff wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 22:50
prl wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 18:52
Both Peters have test units. 2.5" HDD. ...

Thanks.
2.5" - hmm, I believe it's hard to get non-SMR (non-shingled) drives over 2TB capacity.


Toshiba 3TB 2.5-Inch HDD MQ03ABB300 | SATA 6Gb/s | 5400RPM | 16MB Cache | 15mm Z-height
https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/ap- ... bbxxx.html

Available from Macfixit Australia for $209.99, plus postage costs of either (i) $9.90 eParcel registered, or (ii) $15.18 Express post
(on backorder, due in a week) https://www.macfixit.com.au/toshiba-3-0 ... 6mb-cache/

This 3TB is also available on eBay from international sellers, as well as the 2TB version MQ03ABB200.


Another option is the 2TB 9.5mm 2.5" Samsung Spinpoint M9T (Seagate ST2000LM003).
https://www.seagate.com/www-content/sup ... nal-ds.pdf
Don't confuse this with the ST2000LM007 which is the 7mm SMR (shingled) drive.

Some prices on eBay (international shipment) - $127.99, $128.88, $131.99, $135.99

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