How to scan for WIN HD (and win!)

[prl]

I found that when I scanned for the new WIN HD and WIN LIFE channels using the instructions in Video: Rescanning your TV channels I ended up with "duplicate" channels (LCNs in Terrestrial TV LCN 350 and above) when there were no duplicates, and the wrong channel setup un the channels that were in the normal WIN LCNs.

You can avoid that problem, or recover from it, by taking the following steps:

1. If you haven't already scanned for WIN, make a backup of your settings, so that you can return to your old channel scan information if anything goes wrong with the following scan strategy.
2. In live TV, change channel to a WIN channel. Press OK and look at the bottom right of the infobar and make sure you see a value for the channel's brodcast frequency (NNN.NNN MHz). If you don't see that, try different WIN channels until you see one showing the broadcast frequency. Make a note of the frequency.
3. Go to MENU>Setup>Tuners>Manual scan. Make sure that "Type of scan" is "Predefined transponder", that "Region" is the region you do a location scan for, and that "Transponder" shows the same frequency that you noted in step 2. Set "Clear before scan" to "yes". Leave other fields as their defaults.
4. Press OK or GREEN Scan to start the scan. When the scan completes, the "Scanned services" list should show all, and only, the WIN channels, including the new WIN HD and LIFE.
5. Press OK to accept the scan, then press EXIT until you're back at live TV.
6. From live TV, press FAV to see the channel list and check to see that both the Last Scanned and the Terrestrial TV LCN bouquets show all the WIN channels, and only the WIN channels. On T4s, Terrestrial TV LCN will also show HDMI IN, that's OK.
7. Exit from the Favorites/Channel List screens back to live TV, and go to MENU>Setup>Tuners>Location Scan and do a normal scan for your location. When that completes, press OK to accept the scan, and then press EXIT until you're back in live TV.
8. From live TV, press FAV to see the channel list and check to see that both the Last Scanned and the Terrestrial TV LCN bouquets now show all the channels that they should, including the new WIN HD and WIN LIFE, and that there are no channels scanned with LCNs 350 and above that don't normally appear as part of your location scan.
9. If that's succeeded, make a backup of your settings so that if you restore settings, you'll have the right scanned channels, and you won't have to go through this again.

[raymondjpg]

Is this procedure recommended because only the "predefined transponder" scan in item 3 has a "set clear before scan" option, whereas the "Location Scan" in item 7 does not? If so, does it matter which service (provider) the "predefined transponder" scan is set to in item 3? I should imagine that if the "Location Scan" does not provide a "set clear before scan option" before NineHD, 10HD and ABCHD appear in regional services, we would need to go through this procedure again.

[prl]

Is this procedure recommended because only the "predefined transponder" scan in item 3 has a "set clear before scan" option, whereas the "Location Scan" in item 7 does not?

Yes. But there may be a simpler way to achieve the same result.

If so, does it matter which service (provider) the "predefined transponder" scan is set to in item 3?

It shouldn't. You could even scan a broadcast channel that had no signal to completely clear the scan data. I suggested doing it on WIN so that you could easily verify that the scan found all the correct WIN channels.

I should imagine that if the "Location Scan" does not provide a "set clear before scan option" before NineHD, 10HD and ABCHD appear in regional services, we would need to go through this procedure again.

It depends on exactly what changes are made, but that's quite likely. Is NineHD going to appear in any other regions, or has that all happened already? WIN HD should come on-line in WA tomorrow (10 March).

I'll test my simplified procedure over the next few days.

[raymondjpg]

I'll test my simplified procedure over the next few days.

I'll look forward to seeing one of those

[prl]

I'll test my simplified procedure over the next few days.

I'll look forward to seeing one of those

It's part of the UI I haven't used before. I found a method that worked reliably and posted it. Now I think I've found a simpler method (a lot simpler, but not quite as simple as the normal location scan). If I have, I'll post that.

[peteru]

I think two location scans in a row with Network Scan turned off and Clear Service turned on will result in a clean database.

Still, there should probably be a stand alone option to delete all services, to effectively wipe out everything. Mainly for troubleshooting.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

...
I'll test my simplified procedure over the next few days.

When the NINE Network reshuffle happened, a few of us in Perth (at least) had messed up services - leftovers, wrong LCNs, and duplicates.
We then rescanned, clearing all services - Manual Scan, Complete scan, with 'clear before scan' set to yes, and potentially Network scan off (topic).
Would that not suit, as it clears the old crud?

[prl]

That's what I was trying out.

[DaveJ]

...
I'll test my simplified procedure over the next few days.

When the NINE Network reshuffle happened, a few of us in Perth (at least) had messed up services - leftovers, wrong LCNs, and duplicates.
We then rescanned, clearing all services - Manual Scan, Complete scan, with 'clear before scan' set to yes, and potentially Network scan off (topic).
Would that not suit, as it clears the old crud?

Umm, yes - I saw that with the 9 reshuffle. The second scan using those settings detailed in that thread sorted it for me. Perth here too.

Interesting with the latest re-scans I did - for the 7Flix and 10 changes - I found things didn't "clean up" fully and correctly (not all expected new stations appeared) and it required a second scan (using the settings described above both times) to come good. At the time, I simply shrugged my shoulders and passed it off as "one of those computer things". But both times a single pass at "rescanning with delete old services invoked" didn't do it properly for my T4.

[tonymy01]

I still have a rogue GEM in my channel lists. I don't see it at all in terrestrial list, but when I go to the favourites editor it suddenly shows up...Is strange. And because of the inability to see the LCN, makes things tricky to see if it was old or new..

[peteru]

Try this:

I think two location scans in a row with Network Scan turned off and Clear Service turned on will result in a clean database.

[tonymy01]

From memory I did do location scans and there was no option to clear, it seems from the discussion above this option is only exposed when doing a manual scan.

[MrQuade]

From memory I did do location scans and there was no option to clear, it seems from the discussion above this option is only exposed when doing a manual scan.

That's correct, you can only clear services when doing a manual location scan. Hopefully at some point, the "normal" location scan will be changed so that it clears services by default as well.

[prl]

Try this:

I think two location scans in a row with Network Scan turned off and Clear Service turned on will result in a clean database.

Will that fix Favourites lists, which I think tonymy01 was asking about? What does the second "scan with clear" clear that the first one doesn't?

tonymy01, rescanning doesn't fix changes that affect favorites lists. You need to delete and re-add any changed services in your favourites list(s).

[tonymy01]

I ended up deleting all from that broadcaster from the favourites list (had similar prob with Ten), and then when editing, this rogue GEM one (which is really 9HD when seeing both content and the iceguide uploaded) seems to show up again even though it isn't seen in the full terrestrial list. I now don't pick it to go into the faves, but it beats me where it is coming from given I can't see it in the terrestrial list. Will try to spend some time digging tonight and show some screen caps.

[prl]

When WIN changed here, I just deleted all the WIN channels from my favourites, and then added them back from Terrestrial TV LCN.

Do you have any duplicate LCNs (350 or more) in Terrestrial TV LCN?

[IanSav]

Hi MrQuade,

Hopefully at some point, the "normal" location scan will be changed so that it OPTIONALLY clears services by default as well.

Regards,
Ian.

[prl]

Hi MrQuade,

Hopefully at some point, the "normal" location scan will be changed so that it OPTIONALLY clears services by default as well.

Regards,
Ian.

I'm not convinced the option is necessary there. That control can be achieved if necessary by doing a Manual scan/Complete.

[MrQuade]

I'm not convinced the option is necessary there. That control can be achieved if necessary by doing a Manual scan/Complete.

Exactly right. The default location scan should just be a brute force clear and repopulate option. The manual mode is for the tweakers.

[dRdoS7]

Hi,

Hi MrQuade,

Hopefully at some point, the "normal" location scan will be changed so that it OPTIONALLY clears services by default as well.

Regards,
Ian.

I'm not convinced the option is necessary there. That control can be achieved if necessary by doing a Manual scan/Complete.

Getting OT: Do we really need both "Location Scan" & "Manual Scan"?

Also, what's "Network scan" & "Only free scan" used for?

Why is "Clear before scan" a Yes/No, but the other two "On/Off"?

dRdoS7

[IanSav]

Hi Prl,

If I remember correctly the very early firmware had a "Automatic scan" option where the tuner selection, region and scan options, etc, were asked before the scan commenced. This was replaced with the current "Location scan".

These days you can use "Manual scan" and select "Type of scan" to be "Complete" and then select "Clear before scan" to "Yes" to replicate the original "Automatic scan".

Regards,
Ian.

[prl]

... Why is "Clear before scan" a Yes/No, ...

Because it isn't (just) yes/no?

[prl]

...
These days you can use "Manual scan" and select "Type of scan" to be "Complete" and then select "Clear before scan" to "Yes" to replicate the original "Automatic scan".
...

Yes, that's the reason why I don't think that clearing needs to be optional in Location Scan.

[dRdoS7]

... Why is "Clear before scan" a Yes/No, ...

Because it isn't (just) yes/no?

Only if there's a "?" after scan.

[prl]

... Why is "Clear before scan" a Yes/No, ...

Because it isn't (just) yes/no?

Only if there's a "?" after scan.

What? There are three options. That can't be represented as a switch in the UI, so it's not. It's represented as yes/no/yes (keep feeds). I don't see what that has to do with whether there's a question mark in the option name.

[IanSav]

Hi Prl,

Perhaps "Location scan" should go and "Manual scan" be renamed "Tuner scan". This would funnel all users to the more capable scanning user interface.

To assist new and novice users the default for "Type of scan" could be made "Complete". The default for "Clear before scan" could also be made "Yes".

P.S. I am also curious about the meaning of "Only free scan". This menu is one that could do with improved help text for each menu item.

Regards,
Ian.

[raymondjpg]

To assist new and novice users the default for "Type of scan" could be made "Complete".

I don't think just "new and novice users". This PVR is complicated enough for anyone to set up. It would benefit from simplification.

[tonymy01]

See this is the thing I am seeing. The terrrestrial LCN bouquet (presumably all encompassing) has everything I expect in it, in particular look at 9 here (there is also an LCN 9 of Channel 9 Sydney):

]
There are none in the 300s.
But going to editing my faves bouquet (from favourites, menu, enable bouquet edit, red button to show ALL channels), there are 2 Nines (expected as they have the same thing on LCN9 and 91):

And, the mystery GEM that shows up, that is not in the terrestrial at all, and is not in my faves bouquet (but it does offer to let me put into the bouquet, and when I do, it is just a copy of 9HD):

It is very hard in the bouquet editor without LCNs showing there to see what is what, you have to take a punt when selecting channels to put in.

Actually I see the following "extra" in my list FYI when pressing red=all while viewing my faves bouquet where I have only one of everything currently in it: TV4ME, TENHD, ONE, this wacky GEM, Channel 9 Sydney, ABC, 9GO, 7 Digital, 7 Digital 1. Some of these can be explained away as broadcaster duplicate LCNs which I have just not bothered to add to my bouquet, but not all.
Ok, I scanned back through the LCN/Terrestrial list, and it seems I shouldn't have two TV4ME, and two 9GO (and the GEM), as the terrestrial list doesn't, but my fave bouquet when editing suggests these extras. I am fairly certain I purged all offending entries from the bouquet and it still gave me the choice of 2 to add when I went to all services in the bouquet editor to add back one.

[dRdoS7]

... Why is "Clear before scan" a Yes/No, ...

Because it isn't (just) yes/no?

Only if there's a "?" after scan.

What? There are three options. That can't be represented as a switch in the UI, so it's not. It's represented as yes/no/yes (keep feeds). I don't see what that has to do with whether there's a question mark in the option name.

OK, I missed the 3rd option!

Wonder what "yes (keep feeds)" does?

dRdoS7

[prl]

... Wonder what "yes (keep feeds)" does?

Feeds are streaming services, which aren't currently made available through the bouquets, but can be.

[dRdoS7]

Hi,

... Wonder what "yes (keep feeds)" does?

Feeds are streaming services, which aren't currently made available through the bouquets, but can be.

That could be added to the Help text!

dRdoS7