Request for updates for channel picons

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 20:08

CV8R wrote:Hi Peter,

Thanks for updating the picons for Sth Coast.

All work except for the Prime icons.

I see the links to the icon file appear to be missing but the picon path is correct with correct ID's. (Edit: assume the path is generated by my system, based on the ID's it scans)

For example for PrimeTV South Coast

947_99e_3202 is the path, but no link present.

Cheers
Shane

Hi Shane

Peter has submitted them for inclusion but that doesn't mean you will have them yet. They will come through an online update to the 16.1 firmware.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 20:11

Hi Gully,

I think Shane is fetching the updates directly from the repository.

Regards,
Ian.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 21:06

IanSav wrote:I think Shane is fetching the updates directly from the repository.

My error then, apologies.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 22:09

CV8R wrote:Hi Peter,

Thanks for updating the picons for Sth Coast.

All work except for the Prime icons.

I see the links to the icon file appear to be missing but the picon path is correct with correct ID's. (Edit: assume the path is generated by my system, based on the ID's it scans)

For example for PrimeTV South Coast

947_99e_3202 is the path, but no link present.

Cheers
Shane

I'm not quite sure exactly what you mean, but I'll re-check the South coast picon links for Prime.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 02:50

Hi Prl,

Will you be adding the improved SBS HD picon to the repository before PeterU publishes the latest picon updates?

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 07:54

IanSav wrote:Hi Prl,

Will you be adding the improved SBS HD picon to the repository before PeterU publishes the latest picon updates?

Regards,
Ian.

I'd forgotten about it. I'll have a look at it, but I want to sort out the problem with the NSW South Coast picons and take out the YesShop picons first.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 09:52

CV8R wrote:Hi Peter,

Thanks for updating the picons for Sth Coast.

All work except for the Prime icons.

I see the links to the icon file appear to be missing but the picon path is correct with correct ID's. (Edit: assume the path is generated by my system, based on the ID's it scans)

For example for PrimeTV South Coast

947_99e_3202 is the path, but no link present.
...

Those are the correct SID (first value) and TSID (second value) for Prime Southern Coast, but 0x3202 is not the correct ONID for Prime Southern Coast. 0x3202 is the ONID used nationally by SBS. The ONID for Prime South Coast is 0x3281.

0x3281 is the ONID used for Prime South Coast in both the Beyonwiz scan that dRdoS7 and in the FreeTV Digital Terrestrial Television Broadcasting (DTTB) Service Information Register for NSW and ACT.

The two sources agree that the hex SID:TSID:ONID triples for Prime South coast are:

Code: Select all

947:99E:3281 PRIME7 Sth Coast
96A:99E:3281 PRIME7 Sth Coast
96B:99E:3281 PRIME7 Sth Coast
96C:99E:3281 7TWO Sth Coast
96D:99E:3281 7mate Sth Coast
96F:99E:3281 ishoptv
972:99E:3281 RACING.COM

I'm not sure what role your NSWSthCoast.txt file plays in the picon setup on your system, but it reflects the incorrect ONID for Prime South Coast that's in your posted SID_TSID_ONID triple:

Code: Select all

WIN
ONID=12915
TSID=12927

PRIME
ONID=12802
TSID=2462

ABC
ONID=4112
TSID=547

SBS
ONID=12802
TSID=848

SouthernCrossTen(NINE)
ONID=12812
TSID=2073

That gives the value of ONID=12802 (12802 == 0x3202) to both PRIME and SBS. Two different broadcasters should never use the same ONIDs. PRIME South Coast should be 12929 == 0x3281.

Your NSWSthCoast.txt file has the correct TSID for Prime South Coast (2462 == 0x99E). Your PRIME South Coast SID data in that file also seems correct.

There doesn't appear to be a problem with the SID:TSID:ONID triples in the data I used to construct the picon links.

And in answer to your question, yes, the picon links are constructed by a programs that use the data in collected Beyonwiz scan files. There are about 950 picon links in my current setup. Managing that manually would be a bit of a nightmare.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 14:55

IanSav wrote:...
I have an updated and improved SBS HD picon,
SBS-HD.png
This came from Logopedia but had to be recoloured.
...

Hi Ian. I went back to the full resolution image on Logopedia, and recoloured it again, using a slightly different red from yours. I took the red from the red logo backgrounds on the SBS home page. They're R:G:B 210:0:0, rather than the 241:4:34 you used.

I also white-filled the "HD" in the SBS HD logo, rather than leaving it as the background.

I went back and did the same with the Logopedia SBS ONE logos to make sure the SBS ONE and SBS HD picons matched each other as well as possible.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 17:50

Hi Prl,

It is a shame we can't get the authentic colour codes and use them without need to sample the colours from something else.

Good quality high resolution sources would also be welcome.

Regards,
Ian.

stevebow · Post by **stevebow** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 22:16

FYI, rescanned Sydney yesterday.

Steve

stevebow · Post by **stevebow** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 22:23

IanSav wrote:It is a shame we can't get the authentic colour codes and use them without need to sample the colours from something else.

You should be able to get an SBS Media Kit including official logos here:

http://www.sbs.com.au/mediacentre/

But it appears you will need to register first though.

Steve

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:32

Hi,

I am working with SBS on other matters (Using LCNs for channel numbering in all bouquets) but just received an E-Mail message with a logo line in the footer.

: Footer from an SBS communication...

Two things stood out. The "VICELAND" logo has a split line version that would make for a better picon and the "Food Network" picon is not black.

: Updated "SBS VICELAND" picon...; SBSViceland_DropShaddowStacked.png (15.97 KiB) Viewed 4195 times

: Updated SBS "Food Network" picon...; FoodNetwork.png (5.69 KiB) Viewed 4195 times

@Prl: These came from Logopedia.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 16:05

Thanks, Ian.

I think that stacked Viceland layout is a bit ugly (way too much intercharacter space), but the aspect ratio will probably fit the screen picon layout better than the current single-line name. The single-line name works better as a front panel picon, because it's a much wider aspect ratio. SBS are currently using the two-line Viceland logo in their online EPG, but they're using the single-line version in their station promos and for their screen watermark.

I think the purple Food Network picon would make a better screen picon that the current grey/white one. I'm not all that happy with the Food Network front panel picon. Perhaps it could do with a bloom effect around it.

Freeview still uses the single-line Viceland logo, and it has to be shrunk to a tiny size to fit in the available spade. They'd probably be better off using the two-line version, despite my lack of enthusiasm for it.

Freeview uses an "SBS red" version of the Food Network logo.

Logopedia carries both the wide and stacked versions of the Viceland logo.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 16:59

Hi Prl,

My quick and ready philosophy on the matter was that if they were good enough for an SBS engineers's signature block they should be good enough for our Picons.

Regards,
Ian.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 17:05

Hi Prl,

prl wrote:I think the purple Food Network picon would make a better screen picon that the current grey/white one. I'm not all that happy with the Food Network front panel picon. Perhaps it could do with a bloom effect around it.

If you would like me to tweak the front panel picon please advise what you would like. I have never prepared any front panel picons for you before so I am unsure of what limitations within which I need to work.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 17:26

IanSav wrote:Hi Prl,
prl wrote:I think the purple Food Network picon would make a better screen picon that the current grey/white one. I'm not all that happy with the Food Network front panel picon. Perhaps it could do with a bloom effect around it.
If you would like me to tweak the front panel picon please advise what you would like. I have never prepared any front panel picons for you before so I am unsure of what limitations within which I need to work.
...

I'll probably just go with the black/white Food network logo and add a white bloom to it. I now have a tool that lets me add the bloom fairly easily.

Front panel picons are 170x40 pixel greyscale with no alpha channel. I reserve a 1-pixel black border (so usable area is 168x38) and t he picon is left-adjusted and vertically centred in that area. I prefer a solid black background to blend in with the black background of the rest of the front panel skin. There are lots of examples in /piconlcd/channel_picons. You can preview them in a browser with ftp://root:none@beyonwizt4/piconlcd/index.html

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 18:39

prl wrote:Thanks, Ian.

I think that stacked Viceland layout is a bit ugly (way too much intercharacter space)

I agree but given the size of the logo there may not be much point in reducing the space around characters.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 19:44

Gully wrote:
prl wrote:Thanks, Ian.

I think that stacked Viceland layout is a bit ugly (way too much intercharacter space)
I agree but given the size of the logo there may not be much point in reducing the space around characters.

It's the size of the space relative to the character width that I don't like. It's a scale-independent dislike

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 21:40

prl wrote:It's the size of the space relative to the character width that I don't like. It's a scale-independent dislike

I think we may be raising a similar concern expressed differently though I would add the size of the space relative to the character height.

Shifting each column of letters to left might help. Happy to give it a go if needed.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 21:59

Hi Gully,

While I welcome a better looking picon, it is their logo to create as poorly as they want.

Regards,
Ian.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 22:10

IanSav wrote:While I welcome a better looking picon, it is their logo to create as poorly as they want.

Didn't think it meant we needed to use it that way.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 22:19

prl wrote:Front panel picons are 40x170 pixel

I'm going to be pedantic here and remind you that the convention for showing 2D dimensions is width x height.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 22:23

picons don't need to be an accurate reproduction. A reasonable facsimile will do. I'd much rather take something that is neat and well balanced at the point where it is used, rather than dot-for-dot copy. As long as the overall presentation is recognisable and identifiable as the correct service, it's good enough.

If the broadcasters want more control over how their identity is delivered, they should do the leg work and supply suitable artwork for the target application.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 22:44

Having raised the suggestion, here's my first go.

: SBSViceland_DropShaddowStacked2.png (12.01 KiB) Viewed 4124 times

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 22:53

Gully wrote:Having raised the suggestion, here's my first go.

I think the I needs to shift right a tad.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 22:54

IanSav wrote:... While I welcome a better looking picon, it is their logo to create as poorly as they want. ...

I agree.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 23:11

Gully wrote:Having raised the suggestion, here's my first go.

The kerning needs fixing.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 09:51

peteru wrote:
Gully wrote:Having raised the suggestion, here's my first go.
The kerning needs fixing.

As soon as someone decided that the vertical letter pairs would be horizontally centred over each other, kerning went straight out the window.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 09:54

peteru wrote:
prl wrote:Front panel picons are 40x170 pixel
I'm going to be pedantic here and remind you that the convention for showing 2D dimensions is width x height.

Quite right. Fixed now.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:38

prl wrote:
peteru wrote:
Gully wrote:Having raised the suggestion, here's my first go.
The kerning needs fixing.
As soon as someone decided that the vertical letter pairs would be horizontally centred over each other, kerning went straight out the window.

Yes, that was my feeling too. Really don't see how kerning could be introduced and keep the same general look of the original.

MrQuade wrote:I think the I needs to shift right a tad.

This is part of the same problem as I moved the I and the A together to maintain their relative positions (same with each pair.

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:49

Gully wrote: Yes, that was my feeling too. Really don't see how kerning could be introduced and keep the same general look of the original.

MrQuade wrote:I think the I needs to shift right a tad.
This is part of the same problem as I moved the I and the A together to maintain their relative positions (same with each pair.

And I think you have discovered why the characters were so spaced out in the first place. It was the only way to align the letters without the character spacing within each word looking odd. You can't have kerning without misaligning the letters vertically.

Seeing as this is all corporate branding, I think that the least changes made the better. Keep the original colours, spacing and aspect ratios as used by the broadcaster, and only change the colour shading where it needs to maintain contrast with the background.

peteru · Post by **peteru** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 14:08

You could keep the original letter spacing and just move the left part with the logo further to the left and the lettering to the right. The white space between the logo and text will help with balancing the overall look and there's plenty of room.

Or just do what MrQuade says - go with it unaltered. If SBS want ugly, they shall have ugly.

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 17:05

peteru wrote:... Or just do what MrQuade says - go with it unaltered. If SBS want ugly, they shall have ugly.

Which is what I've done, with a white glow surrounding it.

benhsau · Post by **benhsau** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 21:14

Spencer Gulf - South Australia minor updates

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 09:19

Thanks, Ben.

gibster · Post by **gibster** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 07:48

Hi Peter. Here is the .xml file for Cairns, Queensland.

Cheers

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 13:29

Hi Prl,

I am not sure what happened but the "Food Network" and "SBS VICELAND" picons appear a little blurred and have jaggies at the 100x60 pixel resolution in the latest update. Here are some suggested replacements...

: Suggested "Food Network" replacement picon.; foodnetwork_lw.png (2.49 KiB) Viewed 4248 times

: Suggested "SBS VICELAND" replacement picon.; viceland_lw.png (3.7 KiB) Viewed 4248 times

Regards,
Ian.

benhsau · Post by **benhsau** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 23:48

benhsau wrote:Spencer Gulf - South Australia minor updates

prl wrote:Thanks, Ben.

Hi prl,

Could you please also update the GEM and GO picons to the current logo (with the dots)?

Cheers,

Ben

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 23:59

benhsau wrote: Could you please also update the GEM and GO picons to the current logo (with the dots)?

The current set of icons does include those logos with dots in them. Have you received any firmware updates today?

benhsau · Post by **benhsau** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 13:27

MrQuade wrote:
benhsau wrote: Could you please also update the GEM and GO picons to the current logo (with the dots)?
The current set of icons does include those logos with dots in them. Have you received any firmware updates today?
The attachment 1_0_1_563_506_1013_EEEE0000_0_0_0.jpg is no longer available

Running the latest beta. There was an online update today (29/12/16).

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 13:51

benhsau wrote: Running the latest beta. There was an online update today (29/12/16).

Must be specific to Spencer Gulf region picons then.

I am not sure why a specific region would link to the old icons, but prl should be able to sort it out.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 19:20

I'll check it out.

Grumpy_Geoff · Post by **Grumpy_Geoff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 21:22

MrQuade wrote:
benhsau wrote: Running the latest beta. There was an online update today (29/12/16).
Must be specific to Spencer Gulf region picons then.

I am not sure why a specific region would link to the old icons, but prl should be able to sort it out.

It appers that Spencer Gulf hadn't all of its picons updated. From Ben's scan data for the Nine transmission -
ONID 1017
TSID 701
and -
SC Nine LCN 8, SID 701 (FreeTV SI register -> 702)
GEM LCN 80, SID 721 (FreeTV -> 722)
GO LCN 88, SID 741 (FreeTV -> 742)

Picons:
1_0_1_721_701_1017_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png is 'old-style' GEM
1_0_1_741_701_1017_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png is 'old-style' Go!
1_0_1_701_701_1017_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png is Blue dotted-9

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 06:19

As I said, I'll look into it. I doubt that the fix is hard, but there are a few other unrelated things I want to look at first.

The Gem/Go! problem is not isolated to the Spencer Gulf region. It looks like it also affects Albury, Ballarat and Launceston.

What does the SC Nine logo used for Spencer Gulf look like? According to the Wikipedia entry for Southern Cross Nine, "Once Southern Cross switched affiliates to Nine, the channel started only using Nine branding."

Is this the one you see?

In other regions where Southern Cross Austereo carries Nine (like here in Canberra), they use the standard "nine dots" Nine logo.

benhsau · Post by **benhsau** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 18:04

prl wrote:What does the SC Nine logo used for Spencer Gulf look like? According to the Wikipedia entry for Southern Cross Nine, "Once Southern Cross switched affiliates to Nine, the channel started only using Nine branding."

Is this the one you see?

In other regions where Southern Cross Austereo carries Nine (like here in Canberra), they use the standard "nine dots" Nine logo.

SC Nine in the Spencer Gulf area is just a dirty feed of NWS9 Adelaide (with SC local ads). It has always been a Nine (with dots) branding.
Have attached screenshots of current picons.

Cheers,

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 18:28

I know what the Spencers Gulf picons are.

You seemed to be saying that the Nine picon for Spencers Gulf is wrong. Is it, and if it is wrong, what do you think it should be?

benhsau · Post by **benhsau** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 13:08

prl wrote:I know what the Spencers Gulf picons are.

You seemed to be saying that the Nine picon for Spencers Gulf is wrong. Is it, and if it is wrong, what do you think it should be?

Picon for SC Nine is fine and correct. Never said anything otherwise. It was just the two channels GEM and GO that are displaying the old logos.

I posted the screenshots to show what I am seeing.

Ben

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 14:47

benhsau wrote:
prl wrote:I know what the Spencers Gulf picons are.

You seemed to be saying that the Nine picon for Spencers Gulf is wrong. Is it, and if it is wrong, what do you think it should be?
Picon for SC Nine is fine and correct. Never said anything otherwise. It was just the two channels GEM and GO that are displaying the old logos.

Oops, it was Grumpy_Geoff who mentioned the SC Nine logo (and he didn't say it was wrong). Sorry for the confusion.

benhsau wrote:I posted the screenshots to show what I am seeing.

Yes, but by itself that doesn't say what you think is wrong.

Anyway, I'll update the regions that currently show the old non-nine-dots GO! and Gem logos to the newer ones.

benhsau · Post by **benhsau** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 15:32

prl wrote:
benhsau wrote:
prl wrote:I know what the Spencers Gulf picons are.

You seemed to be saying that the Nine picon for Spencers Gulf is wrong. Is it, and if it is wrong, what do you think it should be?
Picon for SC Nine is fine and correct. Never said anything otherwise. It was just the two channels GEM and GO that are displaying the old logos.
Oops, it was Grumpy_Geoff who mentioned the SC Nine logo (and he didn't say it was wrong). Sorry for the confusion.

benhsau wrote:I posted the screenshots to show what I am seeing.
Yes, but by itself that doesn't say what you think is wrong.

Anyway, I'll update the regions that currently show the old non-nine-dots GO! and Gem logos to the newer ones.

Thanks, appreciate it.

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