MKV files on Beyonwiz - part 1: audio & video

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elysian
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MKV files on Beyonwiz - part 1: audio & video

Post by elysian » Fri Oct 31, 2008 22:26

A Guide to MKV files on Beyonwiz - part 1: audio & video issues

***updated 10/1/2011***

I've written two guides for Beyonwiz P1 and P2 owners about fixing MKV file playback problems, based on my own experiences and stuff I've learned from others along the way.

This first topic is about audio and video issues, the 2nd guide is about subtitle issues and can also be found in this BW forum.


As you probably already know, MKV is an open source container file format, commonly containing MPEG-4 video and capable of carrying multiple file types and high definition video content. Equally cursed and loved, the format has many benefits but also has glitches and compatibility problems, particularly when being played on something other than a PC or Mac or when being converted to DVD.

Note that on these guides I am specifically referring to MKV files containing:

1. h.264 video (in a variety of SD and HD resolutions, sometimes appearing with an .avc file extension)
2. various audio file formats (including .acc .ac3 .dts .ogg)
3. various subtitle file formats (including .srt)

I'm a Beyonwiz DP-P1 owner - most advice here should apply to other models.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE GUIDE PART 1: AUDIO & VIDEO ISSUES

* NOTE: To get a look at what any MKV file contains just open it with MKVmergeGUI or MKVextractGUI, both free programs.


PROBLEM: With some MKV files the BW displays a peculiar distortion of aspect ratio, ie. 16:9 images squashed to about 14:9, or 4:3 images squashed to about 3:3.

COMMENTS: This is my biggest issue with MKV videos in the Anime genre encoded by other parties. Adjusting the AR settings on my BW and my plasma panel does not restore the correct A/R, it just creates other distorted displays of the image. The same file looks fine on my PC media player VLC (not immediately however; you have to force 16:9 aspect ratio), yet it never looks right on Media Player Classic. The MKV video also looks fine when converted to DVD with the program ConvertXtoDVD.

I've tried fixing the offending MKV files by opening them in MKVextractGUI, manually setting the aspect ratio or resolution, and then remuxing, but the new file always displayed the same visual distortion.

Some helpful posters at Videohelp.com offered me this technical explanation: the Beyonwiz is assuming that the h.264 video source in these particular MKV files has "square pixels" when it is really encoded using non-square pixels. The MKV container file does flag this information but some hardware and software players ignore the flag. If this is the case, then only a BW firmware fix would make the PVR treat the offending files any differently.

This is how a 16:9 video looks:
Image
This is how a 16:9 video SHOULD look:
Image
This is how a 4:3 video looks:
Image
This is how a 4:3 video SHOULD look:
Image

SOLUTION #1 (this is if you don't need subtitles): Convert the MKV to.TS file format without re-encoding, using the free program tsMuxerGUI.

Follow these steps:

1. Extract all the MKV contents using MKVextractGUI.
2. Open tsMuxerGUI. Add the separated h.264 video file and the audio file.
3. For output choose "TS muxing", choose a new file name and then start muxing.
4. The resulting .ts file should play in the right aspect ratio on your BW. Props to BW Forums member Tonymy01 for giving me this idea.

* This solution is only appropriate if you don't need to view subtitles from your source MKV file. TS files seem hate subtitle files like.srt and .sub and will display them way out of sync or not at all.

SOLUTION #2: (this is if you do need to view subtitles): Convert the MKV to MP4 file format without re-encoding the video, using the free program GOTsent. You can also use the free Zenon MKV to MP4 Conveter.

For using GOTsent follow these steps:

1. Use MKVextractGUI to extract the subtitle file/s you want to use. You won't need to use this subtitle file during conversion - just put it in the same folder as your destination MP4.
2. Open your MKV file in GOTsent - there's no need to extract video and audio seperately from your MKV file beforehand.
3. Select your destination folder.
4. Select your preferred audio stream if there is more than one.
5. DON'T embed subtitles unless you are prepared to accept quality loss and a long conversion, because your video will be re-encoded if you choose this option. Better you leave a separate subtitle file (extracted from your MKV) sitting in the same directory as your completed MP4 file.
6. "AC3 Filter Options" allows you to mess around with the audio if you want but the best setting for your output format is "AS IS". Note that if your audio source is AC3 it will be converted to .AAC format regardless - the only bummer with this solution.
7. Hit "convert". While the audio may be re-encoded, the video will not be, so you will not lose video quality.

Note: This solution is a good one regardless of whether or not you want subtitles, because MP4 is a subtitle-friendly format, unlike .TS and .M2TS. However if you want to preserve a 5.1 channel AC3 audio source (as found on most DVDs) without re-encoding, you are out of luck. That's because the MP4 container is not compliant with AC3 audio (whether 2.0 channel or 5.1) so GOTsent has to convert this to AAC audio.


PROBLEM: MKV video playback becomes jerky or stuttering and audio drops in and out.

SOLUTION: This often happens with 720p or higher resolution files (HDTV or Bluray rips) especially when streamed from your network connection.

The solution is to remux the MKV file to a .M2TS container file using the program tsMuxerGUI (props to BW Forums member Mankmeister for this solution).

For me this always works for smooth & quick playback and seeking, no matter how big the file.

I used to think this problem was the Sigma processing chip in the Beyonwiz player struggling with the demands of high def h.264 video but that's not the case at all; its the damn MKV container.

Remuxing as a .M2TS file solves nearly all jerky and freeze playback problems with files as big as 10 GB. The exception would be some 1080p HD files which the processor DOES struggle with.



PROBLEM: The "unsupported file format" error message appears onscreen when attempting to play an MKV file (here I mean files of any resolution except 1080p).

SOLUTION: I find this occurs when the MKV file contains audio encoded in.ogg format. While ogg is supported on the BW as a standalone file format for music playback, it appears this is not the case when it is the soundtrack in an MKV container. Try this:

1. Extract the ogg audio file from your MKV file using MKVextractGUI.
2. Convert the ogg file to an aac file with your preferred conversion software.
3. Open both the new acc file and the original MKV file with MKVmergeGUI.
4. Tick the aac file, and untick the ogg file that's inside the MKV container, then remux to a new MKV file under a different file name or to a different directory.


PROBLEM: Audio and video is out of sync (sync prblem type #1: the length of sync delay remains constant during playback from start to the finish).

SOLUTION: Remux the file and introduce your own delay to correct it. The program MKVmergeGUI allows you to view all the individual components in the MKV container (video, audio, subtitles) and introduce a delay in milliseconds to the video or the audio, depending on which steam is in front or lagging behind. You then remux it under a new MKV filename or to a different directory.


PROBLEM: Audio and video is out of sync (sync problem type #2: the audio/video drifts further and further out of sync as playback progresses).

COMMENTS: I've had this happen with MKV files that contain DTS-HD audio, an uncompressed version of regular DTS surround. You may also find it happens with with E-AC3/DD+ audio , a similar uncompressed surround format also found on high-def sources.

SOLUTION: Just remux your MKV to a .M2TS file using the program tsMuxer GUI. Simple!

**********

And finally, if all else fails with MKV playback on your BW....

Try converting your MKV file to DVD using ConvertXToDVD. There are still subtitle problems with this process but that's another story and I've shared some fixes at the end of my other post: "MKV files on Beyonwiz P1/P2 - part 2: subtitles".

Happy viewing. :)

PS. if you reply to this post and quote text, save our eyes and pleeeeease don't quote the entire freaking thing. thanks!
Last edited by elysian on Tue Jan 11, 2011 16:58, edited 23 times in total.
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Post by tonymy01 » Fri Oct 31, 2008 22:40

Aha, now I know why you were asking for the link to MKV2TS before :-)
The file I got a few months ago is downloaded as: MKV2TS.rar
Running the enclosed exe (once un-rarring) it tells me it is V0.91.
Google away, and you might be able to find a link that isn't dead, and torrenting is probably an option. It is 5.8Meg rarred.
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Post by elysian » Fri Oct 31, 2008 22:47

tonymy01 wrote:Aha, now I know why you were asking for the link to MKV2TS before :-)
The file I got a few months ago is downloaded as: MKV2TS.rar
Running the enclosed exe (once un-rarring) it tells me it is V0.91.
Google away, and you might be able to find a link that isn't dead, and torrenting is probably an option. It is 5.8Meg rarred.
Yep thanks. I was curious to see if MKV2TS might produce a .ts container that will be more subtitle friendly - anyhoo, I'll add that as a topic on my upcoming post about MKV subs.

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Post by elysian » Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:18

Hi All,

I've updated the solutions to the first problem in my guide, ie. the MKV apsect ratio issue.

Comments and suggestions welcome :)
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Post by mankmeister » Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:34

After Beyonwiz added support for MKV files, I found that some files would occasionally stutter during playback, especially higher bitrate Blu-ray rips. This would happen when streamed via ethernet but also when played from a USB drive directly attached to the Beyonwiz.

So, because of this, I continued to remux every MKV file to a m2ts container using tsMuxer v1.2.0 rather than ts. Subtitles seem to be fine with the m2ts container and stay in sync even when skipping through the file and the current 261 firmware seems to be more accurate when you want to return to a particular point in the file.

The only downside I've noticed is if you resume a file, the video is not displayed.

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Post by elysian » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:43

mankmeister wrote:After Beyonwiz added support for MKV files, I found that some files would occasionally stutter during playback, especially higher bitrate Blu-ray rips. This would happen when streamed via ethernet but also when played from a USB drive directly attached to the Beyonwiz.

So, because of this, I continued to remux every MKV file to a m2ts container using tsMuxer v1.2.0 rather than ts. Subtitles seem to be fine with the m2ts container and stay in sync even when skipping through the file and the current 261 firmware seems to be more accurate when you want to return to a particular point in the file.

The only downside I've noticed is if you resume a file, the video is not displayed.
Hi mankmesiter,

Thanks, I'll add your mkv-to-m2ts tip to the Guide as a way of getting smoother playback of high def MKV files.

However I have found that remuxing to an m2ts container won't fix standard (480p or 576p) MKV files in two circumstances:

1. when the MKV video has the infamous aspect-ratio distortion....

....the video just looks the same when remuxed to a .m2ts file.

2. When the MKV video has subtitles....

....I find the m2ts file has the same massive sync problem with external subtitle files as does a .ts file.

BUT....regarding point #2, none of my MKV recordings or backups in high-def/720p contain subtitles because they are English speaking sources, so I haven't tested a conversion to m2ts from such a MKV file. I assume it's high def MKV's that have given you correctly working subtitles when converted to an m2ts container - is that correct?
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Post by mankmeister » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:05

elysian wrote:BUT....regarding point #2, none of my MKV recordings or backups in high-def/720p contain subtitles because they are English speaking sources, so I haven't tested a conversion to m2ts from such a MKV file. I assume it's high def MKV's that have given you correctly working subtitles when converted to an m2ts container - is that correct?
Yes, all are 1280x720p (or 1280x5xx if 2.35:1), I haven't tried anything higher or lower resolution-wise.

I can confirm that subtitles do go out of sync with these sources muxed to ts (well, certainly when navigating through the file it does) but are fine when muxed to m2ts.

I think it may be related to the fact that the Beyonwiz doesn't seem to get the total running time correct when muxed as ts but does when muxed to m2ts. Bringing up the progress bar shows that the running time is correct as m2ts but has some ridiculously huge time when muxed as ts.

Also, it isn't necessary to demux the MKV file to elementary streams before using tsMuxer. I only do this if tsMuxer has a problem picking up the streams from within the MKV file. This is partly why I've stuck with the rather old version of 1.2.0 because it always seems to work.

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Post by aza » Mon Dec 29, 2008 08:03

Just want to add my two cents. Google this...

PopCorn MKV AudioConverter

It will convert Dts to AC3 all in one step its very easy to use and it works (twice anyway).

Just download the program let it install the external tools that it needs, read the how to instructions and off you go. I would still rather the wiz support dts in mkv's but hay you can't win em all!

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Post by DaveR » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:04

aza wrote:Just want to add my two cents. Google this...

PopCorn MKV AudioConverter
Better yet, just download the latest version from the author's website - be aware that when installing it you'll be asked if it can download and install another ~12MB of needed tools.

Download PopCorn MKV AudioConverter

Tutorial is available here

Support is available here

aza wrote:I would still rather the wiz support dts in mkv's but hay you can't win em all!
Yep, but even the very popular popcorn hour network media players don't support DTS in MKVs, nor do they support OGG/VORBIS or some forms of AAC audio. Not surprising considering they also use a sigma designs chipset...
cheers
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Post by elysian » Mon Dec 29, 2008 22:35

aza wrote:Just want to add my two cents. Google this...

PopCorn MKV AudioConverter

It will convert Dts to AC3 all in one step its very easy to use and it works (twice anyway).

Just download the program let it install the external tools that it needs, read the how to instructions and off you go. I would still rather the wiz support dts in mkv's but hay you can't win em all!
Thanks Aza.

I will try it out and update the Sticky accordingly.

-EDIT-

The program works like a dream!

Guide above is now updated. :)
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Post by adprom » Thu May 06, 2010 12:17

Hmmm, I get some MKV files from the net, generally 1.11GB or thereabouts and haven't had an issue. One stuttered, but a quick pause and play to rebuild the buffer fixed that.

I suspect the box works fine with MKV as long as it sticks to the default options, much like xvid. When it varies from that, is probably where you get some issues.

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Post by elysian » Thu Dec 02, 2010 16:36

Hi All,

Have just updated this FAQ.

Made it a bit simpler, and also made some issues much easier to fix thanks to the wonders of remuxing MKV files to M2TS files with the program TSMuxer.

cheers.
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Post by mickspawn » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:12

hi mate,
i get the problem where it progressively gets out of sync as the movie goes on.. only way to fix is stop and restart.
u suggested:
SOLUTION: Just remux your MKV to a .M2TS file using the program tsMuxer GUI. Simple!

does tsMuxer lose and video / audio quality?
is this pretty much the only solution?
i always have problems seeking too.. like i have my unit completely freeze sometimes

this is only for 720p stuff DTS and aC3

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Post by elysian » Sat Dec 18, 2010 15:54

mickspawn wrote:hi mate,
i get the problem where it progressively gets out of sync as the movie goes on.. only way to fix is stop and restart.
u suggested:
SOLUTION: Just remux your MKV to a .M2TS file using the program tsMuxer GUI. Simple!

does tsMuxer lose and video / audio quality?
is this pretty much the only solution?
i always have problems seeking too.. like i have my unit completely freeze sometimes

this is only for 720p stuff DTS and aC3
It's by far the easiest solution and, no, there's no quality loss at all because there is no actual conversion/transcoding taking place.

Remuxing only changes the *container* file format that the h.264 stream video and DTS/AC3 audio streams are residing in. The actual streams themselves remain intact.

M2TS files have only one downside that I'm aware of: no reliable subtitle support when played on standalone boxes. So....if you need to view subs, you'll still need your MKV file. In this case, to fix your original audio/video sync problem, use the software application Popcorn MKV Audio Converter. This program down-converts and remuxes audio in Bluray sources from uncompressed HD DTS/HD AC3 to old fashioned compressed AC3/DTS audio. For some reason, this process also fixes audio-video sync issues with MKV files on the BW.
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Post by mankmeister » Sat Dec 18, 2010 21:03

elysian wrote:M2TS files have only one downside that I'm aware of: no reliable subtitle support when played on standalone boxes. So....if you need to view subs, you'll still need your MKV file
I've now gone the separate media player path so can now happily play MKV files without issue. However, when using the Beyonwiz, I do seem to recall having success with M2TS files and SRT subtitles with v1.2.0 of tsmuxer.

Actually, I even mentioned it here.

Older versions are available on videohelp.com if you want to try it

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Post by elysian » Sat Dec 18, 2010 23:00

mankmeister wrote:
elysian wrote:M2TS files have only one downside that I'm aware of: no reliable subtitle support when played on standalone boxes. So....if you need to view subs, you'll still need your MKV file
I've now gone the separate media player path so can now happily play MKV files without issue. However, when using the Beyonwiz, I do seem to recall having success with M2TS files and SRT subtitles with v1.2.0 of tsmuxer.

Actually, I even mentioned it here.

Older versions are available on videohelp.com if you want to try it
Well hot dog...I tried and that actually works. :)

I might drop a note to the developer about it - surely this functionalty in TSmuxer could be re-enabled? Cause the curent versions of TSmuxer - as I'm sure you know - produce .m2ts files that display .srt subtitles completely out of sync by 5 to 10 minutes or more.

Thanks for the tip - I'll update the guides again.
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Post by mickspawn » Sun Dec 19, 2010 09:51

elysian wrote:
mickspawn wrote:hi mate,
i get the problem where it progressively gets out of sync as the movie goes on.. only way to fix is stop and restart.
u suggested:
SOLUTION: Just remux your MKV to a .M2TS file using the program tsMuxer GUI. Simple!

does tsMuxer lose and video / audio quality?
is this pretty much the only solution?
i always have problems seeking too.. like i have my unit completely freeze sometimes

this is only for 720p stuff DTS and aC3
It's by far the easiest solution and, no, there's no quality loss at all because there is no actual conversion/transcoding taking place.

Remuxing only changes the *container* file format that the h.264 stream video and DTS/AC3 audio streams are residing in. The actual streams themselves remain intact.

M2TS files have only one downside that I'm aware of: no reliable subtitle support when played on standalone boxes. So....if you need to view subs, you'll still need your MKV file. In this case, to fix your original audio/video sync problem, use the software application Popcorn MKV Audio Converter. This program down-converts and remuxes audio in Bluray sources from uncompressed HD DTS/HD AC3 to old fashioned compressed AC3/DTS audio. For some reason, this process also fixes audio-video sync issues with MKV files on the BW.
you know i get this prob on every single movie. It drives me insane.. why can't it just play the MKV's for christ sake! :) Will i get correct playback playing external USB drive?

Also that popcorn program is that to do with the popcorn hour?
re-encoding the audio doesnt sound too good..

argh this is a nightmare.. i just wanna watch mkv not muck around for every movie

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Post by netmask » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:42

Also that popcorn program is that to do with the popcorn hour?
re-encoding the audio doesnt sound too good..
This is the Popcorn thread on the subject and re-encoding the audio doesn't audibly make any difference IMO except for "golden ears" with super high end audio systems :lol:

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showt ... #pid176253
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Post by elysian » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:36

Also that popcorn program is that to do with the popcorn hour?
re-encoding the audio doesnt sound too good..

argh this is a nightmare.. i just wanna watch mkv not muck around for every movie
TSmuxer takes 1 to 2 minutes to remux a MKV to M2TS depending on file size - not much trouble at all!

As for sound quality, look at it this way: standard DTS and AC3 audio tracks, which is what the Popcorn software downconverts to, are the standard audio format on DVD Video discs that you buy or rent. Do they sound rubbish? Of course not. So any quality loss is pretty marginal really and only of significance to audiophiles.
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Post by Nem » Sun Dec 19, 2010 16:49

Any tips on getting a 3D MKV playing on my P1? It may be my receiver thats causing the issue though as its not HDMI 1.4 spec. I had to directly connect video to my TV to get Bluray 3D working but my P1 is still through my receiver.

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Post by mickspawn » Sun Dec 19, 2010 17:04

netmask wrote:
Also that popcorn program is that to do with the popcorn hour?
re-encoding the audio doesnt sound too good..
This is the Popcorn thread on the subject and re-encoding the audio doesn't audibly make any difference IMO except for "golden ears" with super high end audio systems :lol:

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showt ... #pid176253
would you recommend getting a popcorn hour to play mkv's ?

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Post by netmask » Sun Dec 19, 2010 18:40

Well I don't recommend any particular brand of equipment to anyone! Way too dangerous!!!

What I do is suggest areas of research. That's what I did and it became a toss up between the DUNE http://dune-hd.com/ and the Popcorn C200. I settled on the Popcorn C200 as my media player using the BW P1 as my PVR. For me a good combo. But every PVR and media players have issues of one kind or other so it is best you explore the options and then make a choice best suited to you requirements.

Popcorn have a few problems relating to it's Bluray playing and region coding, but I didn't install one as I have a Soniq QPB301B (with "blessed" serial number sequence - see Whirlpool forum) that is BluRay region code changeable and region free for DVD, instead I installed a hot swappable 1GB Green WD drive. Some say the DUNE is better but it is a Topfield versus the Beyonwiz type discussion. Both products are sound.

If the Beyonwiz were to release a unit with the same chipset as the DUNE or Popcorn or even better the latest Sigma chipset then I would wait and see what develops. I really hope there is movement soon..
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Post by mickspawn » Mon Dec 20, 2010 22:51

I have a popcorn hour c-200 also with a 500gb hard drive in it.
would this be the best device to play my x264 from?
i got sick of the slow menu browsing and the slowness in general of the c-200
ideas?

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Post by netmask » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:10

Maybe this is for the Popcorn forum? Yes I must agree navigating the C200 menu is slow compared to the Beyonwiz but I do use the C200 for all mkv playback as it recognises mkv files that contain subtitles and several languages. Suggest you join the Popcorn forum as I did for info. There is a new firmware release btw.
BeyonWiz T3 and V2
LED TV SONY Bravia 75" Local dimming ~ Retired Samsung ES8000 65" ~
Yamaha A1070 amp
Zidoo UHD3000
Qnap TS851-4G
Pioneer Bluray BDP-150-K
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Netgear R7000
Chromecast

elysian
Apprentice
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 23:17
Location: Brisbane

Post by elysian » Wed Dec 22, 2010 09:23

netmask wrote:Maybe this is for the Popcorn forum? Yes I must agree navigating the C200 menu is slow compared to the Beyonwiz but I do use the C200 for all mkv playback as it recognises mkv files that contain subtitles and several languages. Suggest you join the Popcorn forum as I did for info. There is a new firmware release btw.
Agreed. Getting off thread here. This is a sticky for BW MKV plyback only.
elysian

PVR: Beyonwiz DP-P1 with HDMI
Networking PC: Windows XP Home (SP3)
TV: Panasonic 42-PX70 plasma
AV Receiver: Cambridge Audio 540R .V2
Disc Player: Sony Bluray DVD s770

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