Wishlist For A Next Generation Beyonwiz PVR...

[Sleepless]

In a previous post, I wrote about the past and present of TV viewing, and put forward a couple of ideas about the future.

I think that the following article reinforces these ideas.

http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/h ... 1xd9t.html

To date, I'd say that the Beyonwiz product(s) could be best described as "DVRs with extras".
Those extras being capabilities usually found in network media players.
More and more competitors are now jumping on the DVR bandwagon, delivering products that also have these capabilities, with a "more polished" feel to them.

From what I have seen, there does not appear to have been much development occurring in the Beyonwiz labs, with the company pretty much resting in it's laurels. Evidence of this can be seen in that
- The user interface is still sadly lacking.
- The remote still sucks.
This new crop of DVRs are already ahead of Beyonwiz in these areas.

For Beyonwiz is to remain a competitor in the DVR market, it will need to address the issues currently annoying it's user base (i.e. remote and UI) and once again develop products that differentiate it from the rest of the pack.

To do this, I suggest that Beyonwiz:
- Recognise what it is that customers want. (i.e. The ability to watch what they want, when they want.)
- Provide the means to carry out the activity above, with the least amount of effort by the customer.

To do these things, Beyonwiz first has to recognise the new and possible sources of content, and determine the most effective and efficient methods of making this content available to the customer.
All of this needs to be done in a manner that is as transparent to the customer as possible.

Note:
I've just taken delivery of a Logitech Harmony 300 remote, that I purchased for AUS$20 on Ebay.
These two devices are sitting side-by-side in front of me, and it really is amazing how a simple change in the layout of the remote, can have such an impact in the overall usability of a system.
If Beyonwiz cannot develop a remote of similar capability, then perhaps they could outsource the job to Logitech.
There would probably be an increase in the overall cost of a Beyonwiz product, but that cost would be less than $20 on a $600 purchase, and you would "Buy a Beyonwiz, and receive a Logitach remote FREE!"

[Bruce85]

Sleepless has covered it beautifully. Beyonwiz should listen to his wise words.

[Javelyn]

[quote=If Beyonwiz cannot develop a remote of similar capability, then perhaps they could outsource the job to Logitech.
There would probably be an increase in the overall cost of a Beyonwiz product, but that cost would be less than $20 on a $600 purchase, and you would "Buy a Beyonwiz, and receive a Logitach remote FREE!"[/quote]

Must say I think that this is a really good idea. I have used Logitech remotes since I bought a receiver to go with my TV.

I think that this would be a real plus for the Beyonwizes!

Barry

[Paul55]

Not so much for the considerable number of Beyonwiz owners who have already bought the Harmony remote of their choice.
While all the Logitech Harmonys I've seen are fine, I have purchased a couple of the more capable (and expensive) models. I assume any included remote would be a fairly basic model and not much use to me.
Improve the Beyonwiz remote by all means, but don't impose an extra cost on those who don't want/need it and/or don't wish to have the choice made for them.

Reference the proposed muti-function Wiz - again, by all means go ahead, but don't impose the costs and extra functionality on those who don't want/need it. Provide a choice. A basic PVR and an all singing all dancing media centre/toaster for those who like things that way.

[IanSav]

Hi,

I have decided to not comment of some of these posts as it is important to encourage the free flow of ideas. I don't think my negative opinions on some elements would be appropriate in that context. That said I feel it important to mention to those who love Logitech that there are some of us out there who don't like them and think that some of their products and/or support policies suck. I say this as an owner of some applicable Logitech products. I have a 300i remote that is okay, just. The hardware is okay but the documentation and management software is *very* poor. I also have a Revue. What Logitech have done to us owners is criminal and unforgivable! In no way do I want them to have *anything* to do with Beyonwiz lest they infect or tarnish the Beyonwiz in similar ways.

Regards,
Ian.

[Sleepless]

For a company like Beyonwiz to continue to do business, they need to continually sell product. To compete in the market, they need to continually improve their product.
These improvements include features, functionality and hardware.

"Buy a Beyonwiz, and receive a Logitach remote FREE!"

Must say I think that this is a really good idea. I have used Logitech remotes since I bought a receiver to go with my TV.
I think that this would be a real plus for the Beyonwizes!

Not so much for the considerable number of Beyonwiz owners who have already bought the Harmony remote of their choice.

It's understandable that the owners of a previous model of a product be somewhat envious of those who purchase a later model.
It is not, however, a reason to limit the ability of future products, or the hardware involved.
Rather than sour grapes, celebrate and be happy that there are new customers, because it's their financial input that allows Beyonwiz to support its existing client base. Us.

. . . there are some of us out there who don't like them [edit] (Logitech) [edit] and think that some of their products and/or support policies suck. I say this as an owner of some applicable Logitech products. I have a 300i remote that is okay, just. The hardware is okay but the documentation and management software is *very* poor. I also have a Revue. What Logitech have done to us owners is criminal and unforgivable! In no way do I want them to have *anything* to do with Beyonwiz lest they infect or tarnish the Beyonwiz in similar ways.

Thanks Ian. Input based on real world experience is some of the most valuable input available, and is greatly appreciated.
Your experience with Logitech, and that of others, more than justifies your depth of feeling with regards to allowing Logitech to work directly with Beyonwiz.
I just hope that I have a better experience
I'll post what happens.

Improve the Beyonwiz remote by all means, but don't impose an extra cost on those who don't want/need it and/or don't wish to have the choice made for them.

Given the comments by Ian, it's a fair bet that remote development will remain local (?) and not outsourced.
2 hrs ago my better half commented, whilst squinting at the Beyonwiz remote, "I can't do anything with this, without looking at it. Why are the bloody buttons so small?!".
Please. Please. Modify the design. It really isn't that difficult. Yes, there are costs involved with modifying existing equipment, but the reward will be well worth the investment.

Reference the proposed muti-function Wiz - again, by all means go ahead, but don't impose the costs and extra functionality on those who don't want/need it. Provide a choice. A basic PVR and an all singing all dancing media centre/toaster for those who like things that way.

Beyonwiz currently provide multiple products, to meet the diverse requirements of its customers. I'm sure that this view / policy will continue. If there is a viable market, it makes sense to produce product for that market.

I have no expectation that all the suggestions I have made will be seen in the next Beyonwiz iteration.
It is my hope that those suggestions will be viewed objectively and help the evolution of the Beyonwiz products.
It is my further hope that the Beyonwiz evolve their products sufficiently and swiftly enough, to convince me that a Beyonwiz device should be the next DVR I purchase.

[IanSav]

Hi Sleepless,

You have incorrectly interpreted my post. The "them" I used, which you adapted with "(Logitech remotes)" is incorrect. I was referring to "them" as in the company Logitech. Their remote control hardware is not so bad. Their remote control documentation and software is my main issue with their remote control products.

The Logitech Revue is a Google TV product that has recently been dropped. Logitech released a firmware update late last year that removed the MPEG codecs from the product. Yes, a digital TV device / media player that is incapable of playing digital TV videos! After this disastrous update that also suffers other issues Logitech decided to drop the product. They promised that they would continue software development and customer support. They then fired (or allowed all the appropriate staff to resign / leave) from their Revue customer support forums. Then Google released the 3.2 Google TV update that has been available for the Sony Google TV product since Feb 2012 that is *STILL* not available for Revue owners. Even if/when we get 3.2 there is still a chance that Logitech will edit the Google code and remove the MPEG codecs again. We anticipate that Logitech will completely abandon Revue customers once the warranty periods expire.

This situation has obviously upset a lot of us Revue owners and certainly doesn't encourage me to support Logitech at this time.

Regards,
Ian.

[prl]

Hi Sleepless,

You have incorrectly interpreted my post. The "them" I used, which you adapted with "(Logitech remotes)" is incorrect. I was referring to "them" as in the company Logitech. Their remote control hardware is not so bad. Their remote control documentation and software is my main issue with their remote control products.
...

I definitely agree with this. OS X 10.7 (Lion) has been out for nearly a year now, and you still have to boot 64-bit Intel Macs in 32-bit mode for Logitech's remote configuration software to be able to communicate properly with the remote.

We'll keep you posted once the fix is announce for the software regarding compatibility issues with MAC OS, unfortunately I won't be able to provide an estimated time, rest assured our Developers are working on it.

I feel quite certain that 10.8 (Mountain Lion) will be in public release before this problem is fixed. The current version of Logitech Harmony Remote Software (7.7.0) has a copyright date of 2009.

[Sleepless]

Hi Peter, Ian,

I have to say it's a pleasure to engage in polite, constructive conversation on these topics.

Regards,
Stuart.

____________________________________
Beyonwiz DP-H1 - 1.5TB HDD (Employed as Media Player and Set-Top Box)
(Oz)Tivo Series 1 - 1TB capacity (Primary recording / viewing device)
Foxtel - SD
D-Link NAS - 2TB capacity
27" Sony Trinatron CRT (S-Video ~ 17 years old)
Mac OS 10.5.5
Windows XP & 7
Cables - Too goddamn many

[IanSav]

Hi Stuart,



Regards,
Ian.

[Paul55]

Not so much for the considerable number of Beyonwiz owners who have already bought the Harmony remote of their choice.

It's understandable that the owners of a previous model of a product be somewhat envious of those who purchase a later model.
It is not, however, a reason to limit the ability of future products, or the hardware involved.
Rather than sour grapes, celebrate and be happy that there are new customers, because it's their financial input that allows Beyonwiz to support its existing client base. Us.

You should never assume that others share your own character flaws. If you had bothered to read my earlier comments you would realize that envy has nothing to do with the reasons I don't agree with either multi-function devices or included entry level universal remotes.
Why would I be jealous because somebody got something I don't want?

[Sleepless]

My apologies, Paul.
I misunderstood the tone of your message.
I meant no offense.

Regards,
Stuart.

[Paul55]

No intent = no problem as far as I'm concerned. I obviously misunderstood your post.

Happy recording

[prl]

Hi, Sleepless. Beyonwiz's first set of products (perhaps the first product), the DP-S1, included a DVD/CD player. I think it's fair to say that it suffered the just the sort of problems that other posters have mentioned about all-in-one units. Neither DVD playback or CD playback never really worked properly for us. It would not play about 10% of the CDs in our collection, CDs which played on other players without any problems. In the end we bought an ~$50 Toshiba DVD player, and never looked back.

[craigh]

One of the things Beyonwiz did differently to other DVR's was its ability to view and play recordings on other machines in the house through its own communication protocol.

So if you had multiple machines in a house it all worked fairly seamlessly.

Come forward a number of years and you have TV's, NAS's etc that support DLNA, the ability to play internet content etc

So if Beyonwiz produce a new device in my view it needs to be

- an amazing recorder first with multiple tuners,
- a good DLNA Client and server
- compatible with existing Beyonwiz devices (wizpnp) so you access existing content as people dont change everything at once.
- Best possible scaling of content from SD to HD
- anything else is interesting but get the basics correct first....this is where they fell down first time around.

As for remotes etc yeah it should be reasonable but a lot use aftermarket remotes that converge all devices in one so not that important it is state of art.

[Raid]

Hi, Sleepless. Beyonwiz's first set of products (perhaps the first product), the DP-S1, included a DVD/CD player. I think it's fair to say that it suffered the just the sort of problems that other posters have mentioned about all-in-one units. Neither DVD playback or CD playback never really worked properly for us. It would not play about 10% of the CDs in our collection, CDs which played on other players without any problems. In the end we bought an ~$50 Toshiba DVD player, and never looked back.

Different experiences I think.

I went for the S1 because it was an all-in-one unit, at the time, I had limited space so I couldn’t go for separate units. I have never had any problems with my DVD’s, they all worked. I initially had problems with some of my CD’s but with one of the early firmware updates that’s now fixed. All my CD’s are now on the NAS, so I only play homemade and friends CDs. All DVD’s are played from the BW and again no problems.

While there are lots of enhancements I would like to see, the important thing is that BW has delivered 99% of what they promised (PIP is the only feature missing I think). BW also provided a number of new excellent features along the way for no charge.

It’s important that a manufacture covers as much of the market as possible, because each user is different.

[brianh]

....... Neither DVD playback or CD playback never really worked properly for us..........

...the Boolean equivalent of....... All's well?!?!

tsk, tsk, tsk - Peter......... as a confirmed grammarphile, I can only assume you didn't not do that deliberately, either that nor you were heavily distracted by visions of Beyonce sitting on your entertainment unit..........

[prl]

Muphry's at it again.

[awtm]

I would love to have ISO playback

[Gully]

I would love to have ISO playback

You may have that already depending on which model you have, or more accurately which firmware. 1.05.xxx does have it.

[Paul55]

I would love to have ISO playback

You may have that already depending on which model you have, or more accurately which firmware. 1.05.xxx does have it.

Just in case you aren't aware, word of warning - you can't swap between 1.05.xxx and 1.07.xxx firmwares.

[prl]

...
Just in case you aren't aware, word of warning - you can't swap between 1.05.xxx and 1.07.xxx firmwares.

True, except in the case where you can Early DP-P2s can run either 01.05 or 01.07 firmware, though it's possible that you may need to use the firmware recovery procedure to switch (either one way or the other).

But since those early DP-P2s run 01.05 by default, they already have the capability to play ISOs.

[awtm]

ISO playback