Wishlist For A Next Generation Beyonwiz PVR...

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:55

Hi All,

In another thread a member, Mantorok, asked if Beyonwiz would be interested in suggestions for the new PVR. I felt that the topic was worthy of a new, topic specific, thread so that this could be discussed. Please keep the comments on topic.

Please note that this is a user discussion thread and in *NO WAY* reflects on what work is being done by Beyonwiz. Beyonwiz did not commission this thread and will probably pay no attention to it. Don't be surprised or annoyed if the comments in here are never realised in any current or future products. This situation aside, I think it would be very interesting and potentially useful to accumulate user's thoughts and wishes on features that are desirable in a modern PVR.

Regards,
Ian.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 13:07

Hi,

To get this thread moving I would like to start with the following wises:

All the existing features and capabilities should be available on a new PVR
All the remaining wishes from the current models should be considered, if still applicable
There should be a web accessible interface to monitor, configure and program the PVR
The unit should be built from high quality components to ensure a long trouble free life
The power supply should be designed to be cool running and energy efficient
All the current outputs should continue to be available (analogue, digital etc) a HDMI only output would be disappointing though *very* common in modern devices (damn DRM )
The standard definition outputs should still be operational even when the high definition outputs are enabled
It would be nice to have hot swappable hard drives
An integrated 3D blueray player would be nice

How is that for starters?

Regards,
Ian.

Mantorok · Post by **Mantorok** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 15:38

I know some of these are already on the current models wish list but they're important to me so I'll list them here:

More than 2 tuners
Quad recording (or better) - similar to the Toppy TRF-24x0
Consecutive timers with padding on the same LCN should not leave a small gap between the recordings. The recordings should overlap in this case.
Concurrent recordings on the same network but different LCNs should only use one tuner leaving the other(s) free
Automatic handling of Daylight savings including its impact on EPG and timers.
DLNA support
IceTV Interactive
No Freeview limitations!

These are nice to haves:

Support for more video formats/codecs and up to 1080p resolution
Output of 1080p via component - this may not be possible due to restrictions placed on them by the HDMI standard.
Support for online video services like YouTube and ABC's iView.
Nice User Interface
Display album art for audio files.
Ability to write apps for it

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 18:45

Regarding the power supply the Popcorn has a fairly simple removable unit -. http://rwlabs.com/images/articles/popco ... 00_024.jpg

The SATA hard disk/s should be mounted in a removable caddy with quick hot swap ability and be recognised on Windows and MAC systems for easy and quick transfer of files.

sydney2218 · Post by **sydney2218** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 19:15

Any new BW should be cool . Needs to run in 30* plus temps in cabinets with restricted air flow . The only wish i have is excellent reliability .A 3 year warranty . Thanks

MrQuade · Post by **MrQuade** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 21:44

Mantorok wrote: [*] DLNA support
[/list]

I particularly liked your list, but I will elaborate on this point.

Not only would I like the next gen to support operation as a DLNA rendering/control point, but I would also like it to support streaming of its own recordings via DLNA (ie. it should be a DLNA server as well).

grl · Post by **grl** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 09:56

I'd like the ability to handle ipTV as well, or enough grunt and flexibility so that it can be supported with later firmware updates. I see this as being the future sooner or later.

Basically I am pretty happy with the current unit. I like its functionality, it just needs to be upped a notch, so things like a better media player, better NIC throughput, more recordings at once etc all fit into this. Definitely keep the firmware updates coming, so while not a product feature, is a very useful product support feature.

I'd also like the product to perhaps be a little more widespread than Australia so we have more income for the company which will mean cheaper pricing hopefully in the long run.

dcw · Post by **dcw** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:57

Most of my wishes are covered above, just add:

- Gigabit ethernet.
- Bluray & DVD ISO support.

Big +1 on better/more reliable codec support & 1080P.

Nice to have would be a better audio player (inc multi channel FLAC), and improved photo viewer/slideshow.

hawk_eyes · Post by **hawk_eyes** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 18:19

- Youtube and iView support
- Faster USB transfer speed
- DLNA
- 1080p support
- Set show timers while in watching media in the file player
- Support for multiple audio tracks in files, DTS audio etc
- New GUI
- Picture in Picture

brianh · Post by **brianh** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 22:56

Not worried about Youtube/iView/internet on the PVR, probably better off creating a "pidgeon pair" of PVR and Media PLayer - have all the fancy stuff on the media player, just keep the PVR stuff to faster file transfers, GUI, timers, etc. and other PVR stuff then make the media player a wizz-bang unit with the processing grunt...

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 23:40

Ability to play current model beyonwiz recordings is essential to maintain a harmonious multi device setup

Rockets · Post by **Rockets** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 20:12

* Triple or Quad tuners
* 1080p playback
* DTS HD MA & TruHD support
* External Jukebox support such YAMJ
* NFS Support
* Easy to swap hard drive trays for upgrades

Dr Dre · Post by **Dr Dre** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 14:19

I love some of the suggestions here - it makes me think of all the possibilities that I'd never thought of before!

For me, I'd love to see the following:
- at least 3 tuners (I can't count the number of times I've sworn silently at SWMBO)
- MUCH faster ethernet and usb transfers
- picture in picture (this was part of the orignal design but hardware could not support?)
- web/mobile support for setting recordings (ie not Ice TV) Would require wake on LAN?
- ability to view larger photos and pre load slide show pics
- random play lists for music
- ability to record direct to usb
- choosable remote key set

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 15:04

Hi Dr Dre,

Dr Dre wrote:- ability to record direct to usb

I would like to extend this wish to include network disk storage (like a NAS).

Regards,
Ian.

petey · Post by **petey** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 21:02

brianh wrote:Not worried about Youtube/iView/internet on the PVR

Thanks for saying this, so I didn't have to.

After having seen how awesome a networked media player can be (e.g. XBMC; just ask my folks!), I am no longer at all interested in an all-in-one device. I would much prefer that Beyonwiz concentrate their efforts on getting the PVR function down pat.

I quite like the DP-P2 as is, but the interface can be rather 'stupid', as my brother puts it. But I assume that could be fixed by firmware. I've said it before, but I'd love to see it open sourced at some point in the future.

As to hardware improvements:
Three or four tuners?
Picture-in-Picture (even if it requires a dedicated tuner to do so)
Not skimping on chipset/capacitors/fan/PSU/etc for better responsiveness and reliability

BigbobOz · Post by **BigbobOz** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 21:59

More tuners is my number 1 request.

I have other pvrs but would love an all in one solution. I have an H1 upstairs but my wireless network really struggles to stream the recordings. SD manages but the laptops go to a crawl! EOP hasn't worked for me, so it's either a PVR with more tuners or I get an electrician in to run a cable (difficult situation). Actually I'll probably go both eventually!

Rob

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 17:30

I agree with most of the PVR enhancement and connectability suggestions, but shy away from the all-in-one idea.
Please Beyonwiz, focus on the PVR functions and forget about optical media etc. Surely the S1 taught somebody a lesson. An excellent PVR let down by a poor DVD player and dodgy wireless. The PVR side is still near top industry standards while DVD and wireless G are going the way of cassette tapes and VCRs.

grl · Post by **grl** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 20:03

A few people asking for faster USB. Do we want USB3 and/or eSATA to help with that? I reckon it would help particularly with moving a longer recording from an HD channel. Still need enough grunt in the CPU to move the data that fast, however. Cost could be an issue. We still want an affordable device don't we?

madmax · Post by **madmax** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:00

Paul55 wrote:I agree with most of the PVR enhancement and connectability suggestions, but shy away from the all-in-one idea.
Please Beyonwiz, focus on the PVR functions and forget about optical media etc. Surely the S1 taught somebody a lesson. An excellent PVR let down by a poor DVD player and dodgy wireless. The PVR side is still near top industry standards while DVD and wireless G are going the way of cassette tapes and VCRs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the concept of an all-in-one. I would still lean in favour of such a unit, given a choice, even for a premium price. But it just needs to be done properly, with hardware that is fully up to the task, no cutting corners!

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:13

I think the Popcorn C200 is a good model for BW to look at as a future model.

You can add a Blu ray or DVD player if you wish or have 2 internal HDD and a hot swappable HDD . You can even locate add-on software on an internal 8GB USB stick so that any HDD are merely data disks and can be easily removed without upsetting your media player software like YAMJ or Oversight.

Now if only the C200 had a twin tuner module and software to program timers

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:18

Hi Netmask,

I strongly agree with your suggestion of a Popcorn Hour C-200 model for Beyonwiz to consider. In fact, if/when Popcorn release an updated C-200 with the new Sigma Designs SMP8911 chip I may well get one.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 18:10

IanSav wrote:...
...
The power supply should be designed to be cool running and energy efficient
...
How is that for starters?

Regards,
Ian.

To be a bit more specific on that, the standby power should meet the Australian MEPS standard for standby power < 1.0W.

Raid · Post by **Raid** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 09:09

prl wrote:
IanSav wrote:...
...
The power supply should be designed to be cool running and energy efficient
...
How is that for starters?

Regards,
Ian.
To be a bit more specific on that, the standby power should meet the Australian MEPS standard for standby power < 1.0W.

It would be better to use the EU standards, which are stricter, that way the product can be sold elsewhere.

“Here is a summary of the requirements.
1 year after the regulation is in force (December 2009):
• Power consumption in off mode must be 1 Watt or less;
• Power consumption in stand by mode which allows reactivation must be 1 Watt or less;
• Power consumption in stand by mode which allows reactivation and displays information (such as a clock) must be 2 Watts or less.
4 years after the regulation is in force (December 2012):
• Power consumption in off mode must be 0.5 Watts or less;
• Power consumption in stand by mode which allows reactivation must be 0.5 Watts or less;
• Power consumption in stand by mode which allows reactivation and displays information (such as a clock) must be 1 Watt or less.”

prl · Post by **prl** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 09:57

Raid - I have no problem with even lower standby power

Jarvoid · Post by **Jarvoid** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 13:24

Have used DP-P2 over 6 months just as PVR. Love it. Don't need advanced features, just usability modifications.

Usability wishlist for future generation: (I know these would have been requested before)

- When deleting sections (A-B), need greater control. I remove offensive language from recordings so my kids can watch them. Sometimes, you only want to remove 1 second. Currently it is hit-and-miss which frames get removed.
- Instant Skipping. No delay when skipping would definitely enhance this device. Obviously difficult for the programmers otherwise they would have already done this, but perhaps in a new device, this limitation might be removed.
- When viewing EPG, option to remove tv picture in top-right, and have entire screen used for scrolling channel display. (Maybe you can already do this - I cannot find out how)
- Now that 40+ inch TVs are the norm, perhaps the font size of EPG and File Lists could be smaller allowing more rows on screen.

That's about the extent of my wishlist on the current makeup of the DP-P2. As the programmer of idealpos I know what it is like to have a hundreds of wishlist items coming at you from around the world and having other jobs that are higher priority. I also know what it is like having people request things thinking what they are requesting is a 10-minute job. In the world of programming, yes, some things do fall into place like that, but more often than not, things are a lot harder than what they might seem.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 14:27

Jarvoid wrote:...
- When deleting sections (A-B), need greater control. I remove offensive language from recordings so my kids can watch them. Sometimes, you only want to remove 1 second. Currently it is hit-and-miss which frames get removed.
...

The Beyonwiz edits on I-frame boundaries, where essentially a complete JPEG of the screen image is sent. The rest of the video stream are P-frames where an encoded difference between the last frame and the current frame are sent. To do frame-accurate editing, the video needs to be recoded so that the first frame after an edited-out section is turned into an I-frame if it was a P-frame in the original video. This requires that frame to be reconstructed and then recompressed as an I-frame. Such recompression is avoided if edits are restricted to I-frame boundaries, particularly for the points where the video resumes after an edited-out segment, and this simplifies the firmware. This means that no data needs to be modified by the editing process, and simplifies things greatly.

There are only about 2-3 I-frames/second in MPEG2 video.

The clunkiness of the editing interface on most PVRs probably also limits the accuracy of editing, particularly if you're essentially editing the soundtrack and need to play at normal speed so that you can hear the sound. Human reaction time and the latency in the remote control system probably end up being a bigger factor than the I-frame boundaries.

Gully · Post by **Gully** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 14:42

prl wrote:There are only about 2-3 I-frames/second in MPEG2 video.

Does that differ between SD and HD?

If so, I guess it might be easier.

prl · Post by **prl** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 16:05

Gully wrote:
prl wrote:There are only about 2-3 I-frames/second in MPEG2 video.
Does that differ between SD and HD?

If so, I guess it might be easier.

Alas, my only reference on this is Wikipedia, which says "Typically, every 15th frame or so is made into an I-frame". For nnn50i, that's 0.6sec; for nnn50p, it's 0.3 sec. So it's the frame rate rather than HD/SD: 576i and 1080i would be 0.6 sec, and 720p would be 0.3 sec. Probably.

The only other clue that it gives is for MPEG2 on DVDs (necessarily no better than 576i50 for PAL), where it says: "Maximum frames per GOP: 18 (NTSC) / 15 (PAL), i.e. 0.6 seconds both" (GOP = group of pictures = set of frames starting with an I-frame and up to, but not including the next I-frame).

Anyway, 2-3 I-frames/sec probably isn't wildly wrong

Eastwocs · Post by **Eastwocs** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 14:09

prl wrote:The Beyonwiz edits on I-frame boundaries... To do frame-accurate editing, the video needs to be recoded so that the first frame after an edited-out section is turned into an I-frame if it was a P-frame in the original video.

Having done lots of video editing, I understand completely what you are talking about, but surely that sort of editing capability on a PVR is a bit over the top.

Eastwocs · Post by **Eastwocs** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 14:31

I don't have a BW yet (am still mulling between a dealspace refurb or a new one from icetv), but in deciding between all the pros and cons of different models, I would say there are definite compromises made when selecting the BW. The list depends on whether you concentrate on the PVR or media player features. If just talking about the BW as a PVR:
- no delay when skipping
- greater reliability of components
- retain analog inputs
- retain analog outputs (component)

If you are talking about the BW as a media player, then I would want:
- upgraded chipset to support upgraded fw and more file formats (ISO)
- faster ethernet to copy and stream files (not sure if this means samba support?)
- random/shuffle play

As far as GUI is concerned, I think that would require an upgraded chipset, as I think there are some android based media players coming out. Not sure if that would add to improved reliability, but maybe something to consider. I guess that if you go down that path and the more you upgrade the features, the more you begin to merge the PVR and HTPC. And I guess I would ideally want a configurable HTPC which isn't MMC (or Apple) and is out of the box (I don't need to build myself). Seems the BW is the closest there currently is.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 16:10

Eastwocs wrote:
prl wrote:The Beyonwiz edits on I-frame boundaries... To do frame-accurate editing, the video needs to be recoded so that the first frame after an edited-out section is turned into an I-frame if it was a P-frame in the original video.
Having done lots of video editing, I understand completely what you are talking about, but surely that sort of editing capability on a PVR is a bit over the top.

I thought that was my whole point. I was trying to explain why PVRs don't have it.

BigbobOz · Post by **BigbobOz** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 23:21

Eastwocs wrote: - random/shuffle play

Please!

Henk · Post by **Henk** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:10

An additional timer type to start up a script.

This timer could then be used to start transfer of files or other housekeeping tasks.

The timer would check for upcoming periods of zero activity in the recording list,
and fire up the transfer of files one by one, after calculating the time required to transfer
the individual files.

Just a thought,

Henk

----------------------------------------
DP-P2 (01.05.350)
WDC WD10EVDS 1TB (931.5 GB after formatting)

Eastwocs · Post by **Eastwocs** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 19:27

BigbobOz wrote:
Eastwocs wrote: - random/shuffle play
Please!

Don't scoff!
When the kids were smaller, I had recorded about 100 different episodes of Dora on the dvdr. Converted to avi, we basically had a big dora library (and diego and bob the builder and lots of others).
Believe me, it would have been a godsend to have a random play function, rather than watching them in the same order, day... after day... after day...

And then the BW could also be a half decent music player.

Jarvoid · Post by **Jarvoid** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 13:41

prl wrote:
Eastwocs wrote:
prl wrote:The Beyonwiz edits on I-frame boundaries... To do frame-accurate editing, the video needs to be recoded so that the first frame after an edited-out section is turned into an I-frame if it was a P-frame in the original video.
Having done lots of video editing, I understand completely what you are talking about, but surely that sort of editing capability on a PVR is a bit over the top.
I thought that was my whole point. I was trying to explain why PVRs don't have it.

Yes, thankyou I understand.

What I want to achieve is "Audio Dub" for very small periods - to clear offensive language. I understand this cannot be done with the video frames, but could it be done with the audio?

I remember our first VHS recorder back in the early 80s. It had piano buttons and compared to today's equipment, was an absolute beast. One thing it did have that modern devices don't have was an Audio Dub button. Brings a smile to my face just thinking about it...

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 14:03

I doubt if there would be much call for this type of facility when it can be achieved quite easily by transferring the file to a PC or MAC and attacking the "offensive" word with just about any of the editing packages both free and very expensive.

If you are concerned about the tiny tots picking up bad habits it's probably a good ploy to get those sort of programs off the BW ASAP on to the network. On the other hand after the first day at kindy their vocab will start to disintegrate at an alarming rate based on what I have heard recently in the local shopping centre.

For a good read on censorship see Mother Goose Censored http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks07/0700411h.html Sometimes the intent backfires.....

Jarvoid · Post by **Jarvoid** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 14:24

netmask wrote:I doubt if there would be much call for this type of facility

Yes I thought this would be the case. I'll persevere with the frame edits - I do like the simplicity of editing while watching on the BW (and taking out ads) - its one of my favourite features.

Thanks also for the mother goose laugh. Somewhere in my distant memory I'm sure I've seen this somewhere before....

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 14:38

On the basis of my experience I'd tend to agree with netmask on this if your kids go to school (rather than homeschool). But even then, you have little control if they play at friends' houses. I don't think my daughter picked up much from her first school, but that was all in Swiss German, and I think she was concentrating more on understanding anything at all. From Australian early primary, I remember the Playschool theme reworded as "There's a bear in there/On an electric chair", and the rewording of Laugh, Kookaburra, as "Kookaburra sits on the electric wire/Bum in the air and his a**e (or pants) on fire" - and those are just the ones I knew about

. I remember more from my own school time. The collection of school rhymes Cinderella Dressed in Yella (Ian Turner, 1978) has lots of material that goes beyond what adults probably think kids should be using. Even some references to the Profumo affair ("Half a pound of Mandy Rice/Half of Christine Keeler" sung to Pop Goes the Weasel), which I'm sure most of the kids who sang it in '78 would have no idea what it was about.

My daughter managed to get through it all and as an adult uses inappropriate language far less than her father, at least within his hearing

I don't recall, though, having many concerns about the TV that she wanted to watch, at least from the point of view of language, violence, drug use or sexual references.

I also agree with netmask that if you want to edit like this, it's much easier to achieve on a PC (where you can edit out the junkfood ads as well) than on the Beyonwiz.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of programs are we talking about? I don't recall Postman Pat having particularly colourful language.

prl · Post by **prl** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 14:47

Jarvoid wrote:...
Thanks also for the mother goose laugh. Somewhere in my distant memory I'm sure I've seen this somewhere before....

Elderly Man River (Stan Freberg and Daws Butler) is in much the same vein, parodying the kind of censorship on radio and TV in the 50's. If you thought PC was recent...

Jawbraeka · Post by **Jawbraeka** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 14:04

MY additions have pretty much been said but i would like SSD compaitbility as an internal drive as this would make for a much cleaner and faster seek times as well as load times and offer a direct offer of selling with or without SSD drive.

Quad tuners with 1080p for each tuner and no reduction for all 4 tuners recording (if possible)

Multiple codec support with ability to add own codecs on the fly (makes for a more OPEN pvr)

Also could be have the ability to change the layout of the GUI as it looks quite dated and also allow for corrections when information is presented about a programme, IE; not chopping the last few lines of information out about a programme.

Being able to add ram modules to increase performance of PVR so that way any possible residual performance issues can be resolved or at least a provide a decent amount of internal memory so that PVR isn't slowed down.

Also another feature that was bought up was video editing, please allow for an automatic bookmarking option so a>b function is more accurate and ads can be removed directly after show has been broadcast rather than manually doing this (i can see this as being a massive selling point also as people really don't want to have to waste too much time doing this.) Also to the automatic option and bookmarking option in general, add a feature that allows for manual adjustment so we can get perfect edits rather than the start of a show being clipped off due to the machines lack of self awareness.

The recycle bin feature to be operational so that way if deletion is accidental, we can retrieve the video/music/pictures/etc without hassle.

allow android to be the OS so that way market apps and utilities can be used and gaming becomes a possibility as i know a lot of people like gaming on their tv's.

A complete open software package for PC/MAC/Linux to be able to edit and convert TV shows with no hassle at all (TVREDO suite) http://www.videoredo.com/en/ProductTVS.htm is ideal editing and cropping out ads too.. (there is a feature in this software that hunts ads also (would be good to see this feature inbuilt into PVR used with 'Autobookmarking' feature i mentioned earlier but also have external option via editing suite also for even more accurate editing such as language or vision such as violence, sex and nudity etc) with an inbuilt conversion tool in the software (as i think tvredo doesn't convert to AVI as far as i'm aware.)

Youtube is a major want and ability to get netflix app (no one said you had to license it, just access to download it and provide a warning that you don't support the download of it at all to keep your tails out of hot water.) as well as huluplus, pandora and a lot of other overseas apps. (this warning also applies to these apps also)

Mobile Sim (xG and beyond), Wireless N and Gigabit Ethernet and beyond via firmware updates, browser for internet with flash and html5 support (Covers bases and future implementations of streaming formats can be added and removed via firmware updates.)

More HDMI inputs to allow for more devices and keep sp/dif for home theater users.

Possible removal of RCA composite (yellow, red and white) plugs as majority of everyday tv watchers (won't say have) are more than likely starting to / already utilize HDMI on their tv sets and to combat this in case add an HDMI to RCA cable to compensate for the loss of RCA plugs plus allows for a new revision of motherboard and sets the standard for others to follow (WORLD'S FIRST etc etc etc)

The PVR to be more "Open Source" to allow for customization of OS as well as backgrounds, start-up tweaking, and the like with a laymen software kit to enable this feature ... OR NOT.

Oh and the machine to be low power and cool running (either via fans or a sealed water or liquid cooled setup that is removable or modifiable to allow for bigger and better block but default kit is adequate for system)

Torrent downloading and storage to either internal HDD or UBS or network.

There are just a few ideas and please by all means throw the napalm and call the Whambulances as i am expecting to get a few BURNS from these comments.. oh and would you like some cheese with that whine...

LOL kidding people but i am open to creative and constructive criticism so fire away.

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 15:12

Hi Jawbraeka,

To quote a line from an Australian movie: "Tell him he's dreaming."

No-one in the world broadcasts 1080p so this doesn't exist. Many of your other points are also impossible and/or impractical. A few of your requirements defy legal obligations and will not happen. (You can't use "warnings" to negate legal obligations.) Other suggestions are simply not attractive to the television industry and would be actively discouraged.

Any contemporary appliance PVR can never support the openness and flexibility that you suggest. It is fine to dream but please don't expect anything like what you are describing here to be released any time soon.

Regards,
Ian.

prl · Post by **prl** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:15

Jawbraeka wrote:MY additions have pretty much been said but i would like SSD compaitbility as an internal drive as this would make for a much cleaner and faster seek times as well as load times and offer a direct offer of selling with or without SSD drive.
...

Load times of what? The firmware is all in flash, so HDD access times aren't relevant to the time taken to load the firmware. The system root file system is embedded in the kernel image, and once the kernel is loaded at boot time, it effectively runs as a RAMFS. The application partition, which contains the main apps that run the system, wizdvp (main app), wizpimp (IceTV) and wizpnp (WizPnP server & client), remains in flash.

Changing the main disk access time wouldn't affect the load time for these apps.

The files the apps use (other than recordings) that are on the HDD (EPG & WizTV caches, WizPnP index files and file player index files) aren't all that big.

The system config files are read out of a compressed image on flash into a RAMFS (technically a tmpfs), and recompressed into flash at shutdown. This includes all the SETUP screen info and the information for play resumption on recordings and media. The maximum compressed size of the config info is 64kB, so not really large, either.

grl · Post by **grl** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:02

SSD is a do it yourself option now. Go right ahead. You won't fit many recordings on one however. Don't expect anybody to do it as an option supported by the vendor as they won't sell enough of them to make it worth their while, because of the cost, and lack of capacity problems.

A PVR appliance is just that. Upgradability is achieved with a forklift. Also consider the task that the appliance performs. TV recording, some media playing. The TV recording bit is not really changing. If it works now it will work in 3 years time. The media player side of things is changing slowly with new formats that require more capacity, cpu/ram. Things that are likely to change and that can't be readily updated are things like HDMI standards or other protocols that talk between your AV appliances. I can't see how it is economical to produce appliances that would allow a CPU upgrade or connector upgrades. Really the best you can hope for is a modest amount of headroom in terms of capacity and some firmware updates to utilise this spare capcity over the life of the appliance.

Also consider warranty. We can't open the box or we void warranty. If you relax that then price would have to go up. Most people think they are too expensive now.

But it really doesn't hurt to dream.

Bruce85 · Post by **Bruce85** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 00:36

Bigpond TV is a necessity. It has the rugby league!

YouTube

Vimeo

DailyMotion

NineMSN News

ABC iView

SBS On Demand

Catch-up TV from the commercial networks

Internet radio.

Detailed weather.

A GUI on its media player that resembles iPod or Android. Need to have album art and song information displayed.

Web browser.

e-Mail app

IanSav · Post by **IanSav** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:37

Hi Bruce85,

While your list of wishes is appreciated, none of those items relate to being a PVR.

The point you appear to be making is that you want the PVR to also be an Internet enabled media player. Point noted.

Regards,
Ian.

Paul55 · Post by **Paul55** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 13:03

IanSav wrote: While your list of wishes is appreciated, none of those items relate to being a PVR.

And there lies the risk. The more complex and multi-functional a device is, the higher the risk of something conflicting or failing.
I have held a long time bias toward single function equipment. If Beyonwiz feel compelled to produce a multi-function media device, I hope they also make a ''simple'' PVR only machine for the market segment who don't want/need 3 media players in the same room.

Sleepless · Post by **Sleepless** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 00:49

Once upon a time, there was a device that enabled a person to record broadcast video (and audio) signal to tape.
It was truly a marvel to behold. It provided the ability to view broadcast TV at a time that suited "you".
It was called a VCR. Or Video Cassette Recorder. It was kind of cumbersome and awkward but it worked in it's limited way, and it gave the punters a taste of what could be achieved.
I suppose you could describe it as a Personal Video Recorder. A PVR.

Fast forward a few years and magnetic tape was replaced with digital media (Hard Drives).
People don't like acronyms greater than three characters, and PDVR doesn't easily roll off the tongue.
Since the acronym PVR had been used, DVR seemed a good choice to describe a device of the digital age. So the Digital Video Recorder was born.
A device that would allow analogue signal to be recorded to a digital format, and converted back again for viewing on a CRT TV. This allowed for a program to be viewed at the owner's leisure, not the whim of the broadcaster. It could even record and play at-the-same-time. You could "shift" the time that you chose to watch content.
In this new digital age, content became available by methods other than a sequential broadcast TV signal.
For instance there was cable, a signal delivered sequentially, that also needed to be accommodated for recording by a PDVR . . . . sorry, DVR.

Moving on, tv episodes and movies became available on DVD. This content was pre-packaged in a digital format. Then this, and similar content was made available to be downloaded over the internet. And it too was in a digital format.
Now, in the household was already a device for playing digitally recorded content, connected to the household's preferred video display, the television (TV).
It was a short step to enable the DVR to "play" locally stored digital "media". A media player, as it were, that could also record broadcast and cable signals.
What should we call this device?
Digital Video Recording Player? DVRP
Media Recorder Player? MRP
Digital Video Recording Media Player? DVRMP
Digital Media Player (That also records)? DMP(TAR)

Hmmmm. No. None of those acronyms seem quite right. Let's stick with DVR.
TV stations have begun recognising the benefits offered by home internet connections, and as well as now streaming (?) their content over the air, from their antenna to yours, they are also offering internet access to their content, allowing the punters to "catch up" with programs they have missed . . . . kind of like an on-line PVR . . . . but really poorly implemented.

The point of these ramblings is to demonstrate how far along content-viewing options have come, and the direction in which things are heading.
A PVR (DVR, WhateVeR) is now expected to accommodate many different types of input, not just the traditional antenna-to-antenna offerings of TV stations.
While not expected to be a comprehensive media hub, it is not unrealistic to expect the DVR to provide access to content that has been stored in local and remote locations, and content being streamed from outside the home network boundary (in the interweb, cloud thingy).

My personal desires in the evolution of the Beyonwiz products include:
- A halfway decent remote. If Safeway can flog a Remotec remote for $18.99, which has large buttons in a well-thought-out layout, and that can be used without looking at it, then it shouldn't be beyond the capabilities of the designers and marketers at Beyonwiz to provide a remote that is at least equally functional. (A remote WITH the DVR, NOT an aftermarket option)
- Four tuners, which should allow two programs to be recorded at one time, no matter what timing hurdles the TV stations put in the way.
- A basic internet client that can access streaming content, and record (copy) it if desired, and access You Tube offerings.
- A torrent/magnet client would also be useful, and should not be beyond the Beyonwiz computing capabilities.
- . . . . Take a page out of the Tivo design book, and craft a user interface that is more intuitive and user friendly.

These should be the requirements of a Digital Video Recorder in the 21st century.

Sleepless · Post by **Sleepless** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:39

Paul55 wrote: And there lies the risk. The more complex and multi-functional a device is, the higher the risk of something conflicting or failing.
I have held a long time bias toward single function equipment. If Beyonwiz feel compelled to produce a multi-function media device, I hope they also make a ''simple'' PVR only machine for the market segment who don't want/need 3 media players in the same room.

Single function equipment = more boxes. One for each function.
Did you mean a device for the market segment with reduced viewing requirements?

The Beyonwiz devices are already multi-function media devices, as evidenced by the option to play content that the device did not originally record. i.e. movies, photos, etc.

I apologise if I've missed your point here.

netmask · Post by **netmask** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 13:07

For me I would rather have a straight forward PVR that records 4 separate muxes and does it well and of course no restrictions on commercial jumps and xfer to PC/MAC. Firmware upgrades then don't have to compete with odd ball format playback problems - just left to concentrate on the core activity.

A separate media player takes care of my media needs that can prioritise firmware updates dealing with file formats and subtitle oddities.

When you wrap up several functions like DVD/CD playback, PVR functions and media playback then you just complicate the device and the various functions the firmware has to control will have to compete for priority in development. Like most compromises no one wins..