Wishlist for Next PVR?

[domesticman]

An UHD PVR with internal 3 or 4 tuner, with an internal HDD, USB as a secondary.

Maybe even an external input from Foxtel or Fetch? With apps available for streaming, Streaming services with Netflix, STAN etc.
Everyone else has got these option now.

Currently a flimsy tuner setup. As you need at least 3-4 tuner with the current channels available.
No HDD etc

Unfortunate Beyonwiz is not even recognised anymore a top PVR anymore on any review site. This is a real shame, Since once upon a time it was the best option in the market.
And excuse is they are keeping costs down.

Not great at all. I’m sure we would pay a little extra for a quality product. Am starting to look elsewhere.
But still holding out hope.

I am wondering if anyone at Beyonwiz is listening?

[MrQuade]

I am wondering if anyone at Beyonwiz is listening?

I'm sure they are. But as you say, it simply boils down to dollars.

Everyone wants a unit that does it all, but the cost of developing and supporting those features, along with the material cost for advanced and potentially bespoke components needs to be balanced against the number of folks who will be willing to fork out money for that. The fewer units sold, the higher the per-unit cost needs to be.

Supporting all that advanced functionality would not be cheap, and a lot of that responsibility would be in the hands of upstream manufacturers to keep their software and drivers up to date.

You're not alone, that's for sure, I'd like to see a V2 with at least an internal HDD, but I think that the number of people willing to fork out money for broadcast television is probably dwindling faster than any of us realise.

I have no idea of the actual numbers, but if I was to guess, you'd probably be staring down the barrel of upwards of $1000 for such a beast even in the PVR heyday when consumer demand was higher.

[domesticman]

I definitely agree with you, its not possible to have everything.
Actually I'm a components guy. I prefer a dedicated Bluray player, dedicated PVR etc. i just want it to be done well.

A similar product from Panasonic (if I'm allowed to mention this) have a 3x HD tuner (with 4K upscaling) 3D Bluray player for $899 (retail). And it had a 3D player as well.

I would be happy with the current offering if they would include

An internal HDD option (Happy to install my own)
3x tuner 4K if possible
with install-able apps (their plugins leave a little to be desired)

Does not seem unreasonable to me from Beyonwiz. And am sure this wouldn't run at more than 300-$400 considering what is on the market presently. I think there are enough dedicated fans of their unit to sustain this.

[prl]

I think that only having external drives (apart from the microSD card) in the V2 was a poor choice.

I think that it's likely that we'll see more models with external tuner options (all models except the T4 can take at least 1 external tuner). Doing it that way means that the same model can be sold at different price points depending on how many tuners are added. Light users can get a 2-tuner model; power users can get a 4-tuner model.

However, if that's the path, the external tuners need to be reliable and well-integrated, and that hasn't always been the case with the USB tuners that Beyonwiz offers.

[Grumpy_Geoff]

However, if that's the path, the external tuners need to be reliable and well-integrated, and that hasn't always been the case with the USB tuners that Beyonwiz offers.

[Sandy B]

A HDMI in is the big item missing from the V2 that is currently stopping me from a purchase.

[prl]

As an aside on having the number of tuners to suit the user - the old T3 had socketed tuners, and could run with 1-3 tuners, and have a mix of FTA/cable/satellite tuners, but Beyonwiz never sold it with anything other than 3 FTA tuners.

The V2 has a dual tuner module whose tuners can be used for both FTA (DVB-T2) and cable (DVB-C).

[sub3R]

I don’t know what happened to my last post but I’ll try again.

I think that only having external drives (apart from the microSD card) in the V2 was a poor choice.

I agree. It was one of the main reasons why I got one of the last U4s instead of a V2.

[martbd]

With the external tuners with a pass through to the TV the antenna socket , so there is room for the TV to directly plug into antenna socket so can tuners to the Beyonwiz PVR.

[martbd]

How would the Beyonwiz unencrypt the Foxtel or Fetch recording without a card?

[martbd]

I think that only having external drives (apart from the microSD card) in the V2 was a poor choice.

I think that it's likely that we'll see more models with external tuner options (all models except the T4 can take at least 1 external tuner). Doing it that way means that the same model can be sold at different price points depending on how many tuners are added. Light users can get a 2-tuner model; power users can get a 4-tuner model.

However, if that's the path, the external tuners need to be reliable and well-integrated, and that hasn't always been the case with the USB tuners that Beyonwiz offers.

All modern TVs have a built in tuner so any new model of Beyonwiz would need to have a pass through so can still use it even when have 4 tuners installed on your Beyonwiz PVR.

[MrQuade]

Noone makes a USB tuner with passthrough afaik.

If the next wiz has four internal tuners then it would be likely to support passthrough like the existing internal tuners.

I personally prefer to split externally and not use any of the internal passthroughs (better performance), but understand you can end up with fewer cables by doing it the other way.

[paullings]

I'll add my opinion to domesticman's for a high end PVR from Beyonwiz.
On my wish list would be :
1. At least 4 tuners internal if possible as per the T4
2. Internal hard drive
3. Front panel display as per the T4. I can't read the display on my U4 from where I sit.
4. Remote as per the T3
5. I can live with an external power supply.
6. Good quality components.
Pretty sure this will never happen but you can hope.

And yes I would be prepared to pay for this. My U4 and T3 are in constant use and I'm not sure the V2 is a suitable replacement machine. I don't have any streaming services and we find enough on FTA to watch.

The reason the Beyonwiz's are great machines is the great work the people on this forum put in.

[Paul_oz53]

I'll add my opinion to domesticman's for a high end PVR from Beyonwiz.
On my wish list would be :
1. At least 4 tuners internal if possible as per the T4
2. Internal hard drive
3. Front panel display as per the T4. I can't read the display on my U4 from where I sit.
4. Remote as per the T3
5. I can live with an external power supply.
6. Good quality components.
Pretty sure this will never happen but you can hope.

And yes I would be prepared to pay for this. My U4 and T3 are in constant use and I'm not sure the V2 is a suitable replacement machine. I don't have any streaming services and we find enough on FTA to watch.

The reason the Beyonwiz's are great machines is the great work the people on this forum put in.

Getting there but my millionaire's wishlist would add:

7. HDMI IN recording at 1080p minimum; and
8. Option for a 5th USB tuner so I can record all the FTA networks without any fear of conflicts!

I would add a qualification that the internal tuners be high sensitivity types to minimize reception issues. This is a frequently raised issue with wizzes: the tuners are passable but not outstanding.

Like paullings, I am not into streaming to any great extent but when I do, I use a dongle via HDMI IN. The existing wiz dongle is very buggy and would probably just upgrade the TV for that functionality.

We can only dream

[MrQuade]

8. Option for a 5th USB tuner so I can record all the FTA networks without any fear of conflicts!

The V2 can actually record from 5 if I recall correctly, however you don't have live viewing capability at that point.

We have 6 broadcasters in Perth too, so that's not quite enough here

[prl]

I'll add my opinion to domesticman's for a high end PVR from Beyonwiz.
On my wish list would be :
1. At least 4 tuners internal if possible as per the T4

I'd prefer that. Even better would be a Full Band Tuner, where only one tuner would be needed, but I don't think that there is any such thing yet for FTA.

However, the trend seems to be away from SoC support for 4 tuners, so it may be that the T4 will be the only Beyonwiz with 4 internal tuners. Another trend seems to be to be to reduce the number of similar models (like the T2/T3/T4) and then allow optioning on HDD and number of tuners, the latter by using external tuners.

The T3 had socketed tuners and could run with 0-3 tuners, but Beyonwiz never sold it other than with a full complement of tuners.

2. Internal hard drive

Agreed. I'm not sure where Beyonwiz is heading there. I just hope that the consequences of the V2's HDD arrangement cause enough support calls to discourage them from that direction. Or they find a way to make USB HDD naming in the system consistent and reliable.

While the V2's small box may have some appeal, once you add the clutter of an external HDD, much of that appeal goes out the window.

One useful feature of the V2, at least from a dev's perspective, is its multiboot capability. My test V2 can boot into any of Beyonwiz firmware, OpenViX or OpenATV, though this can't be managed from within the Beyonwiz firmware. Being able to multiboot into either Beyonwiz official or beta at will would also be useful, though I'm not sure whether that can be done (haven't tried it).

3. Front panel display as per the T4. I can't read the display on my U4 from where I sit.

I agree that the T4 front panel is the most flexible of all the Beyonwiz models, but your imagination shouldn't be limited by the T4's capabilities. There are products out there already that have color OLED front panels.

4. Remote as per the T3

I agree that the T3's remote is the best of all of them, though the V2 remote isn't too bad, and the U4's is OK (same shell as the DP series remotes).

I really dislike the T4 remote, especially for the fact that its "helpful" button illumination only comes on after you've pressed a button, but I also think that it's bulky and boxy. The T4 remote also seems to have (reportedly) dreadful battery lifetime. The T2 remote is almost as bad, but it at least doesn't have the keypad illumination.

5. I can live with an external power supply.

I prefer an external power supply. There have been few reports of dodgy external power supplies, especially compared to the ill-fated T3 PS. If one goes bad, you can easily replace it with whatever suitably spec'd power supply you prefer. You can only repair or junk failed power supplies in models with built-in power supplies.

6. Good quality components.

+many. Can anyone say "T3 power supply" or "T4 tuner regulator heat sink design and thermal cement selection"?

And if external tuners are to become the "new black", they need to work reliably with the hardware & firmware. Not like some combinations I could mention.

Pretty sure this will never happen but you can hope.

Beyonwiz is a little limited in what they can offer. They seem to have gone away completely from the proprietary build of the DP series to OEM devices. Now, they're limited to product choices where the OEM is willing to accept Beyonwiz's small order sizes.

However, I think that they do try to look at user preferences, but frequent forum posters' preferences may not coincide with those of the "average" user, whatever that is. The Beyonwiz boxes (along with all the other enigma2 PVRs out there) tend to be a bit "by techheads, for techheads".

And yes I would be prepared to pay for this. My U4 and T3 are in constant use and I'm not sure the V2 is a suitable replacement machine. I don't have any streaming services and we find enough on FTA to watch.

I'm not sure why you'd discount the V2 unless you need HDMI input or want to have all of external tuner, HDD and WiFi (you can have that, but you'd need to add a USB hub). Like the U4, it can only have 4 tuners by the addition of USB tuners, but the Hauppauge dual tuner means that you can have 4 tuners and only 1 USB slot for the tuner.

The other downside of the V2 is its counterintuitive behaviour if you boot it with the recording HDD in the USB slot and another USB HDD in the USB2 slot.

The V2 also has a very responsive UI, better even than the U4. It's also the fastest to boot and to restart the GUI. That's why I do as much of my dev testing as possible on my test V2.

The reason the Beyonwiz's are great machines is the great work the people on this forum put in.

Perhaps, but there's another, larger, open source community behind all that, too.

[prl]

We have 6 broadcasters in Perth too, so that's not quite enough here

Let's hear it for Full Band Tuners, then!

[Paul_oz53]

We have 6 broadcasters in Perth too, so that's not quite enough here

Let's hear it for Full Band Tuners, then!

+1

[IanB]

...
I would add a qualification that the internal tuners be high sensitivity types to minimise reception issues. This is a frequently raised issue with wizzes: the tuners are passable but not outstanding.
...

Probably more important is inter-modulation performance.

The original DP series tuners were actually quite sensitive but could not cope with differing signal levels. The later generation offerings are somewhat better but still not from the optimal design school.


For Full Band tuners, inter-modulation performance, is the Achilles heal. With satellite usage you have a pile of channels, all from the one satellite, all about the same level, so no issue. With terrestrial VHF we have the 5 distinct TV broadcasters, plus a host of other VHF services like aircraft and FM radio all jazzing the spectrum. And from this a single DSP needs to extract the desired set of signals.

[maverick#1]

I think my T3 has developed the power supply issue. When it worked properly, it took forever to boot up so I'd love to replace it with a faster PVR but I just can't bring myself to buy a V2. I've gone back to my trusted old P2 instead.

The biggest issue with the V2 for me is the external HD. I just won't buy a PVR with an external HD.

And there's only 2 USB ports. With an external HD using the the USB3 port, there's no spare high speed port to copy recordings off the main HD unless you use a USB hub, but that then means you've got another device cluttering up the area around the PVR and you need another power point to power the hub. When you've got an external HD for recordings, wifi dongle, wireless keyboard and external USB tuner all needing USB ports (and you'd want another spare USB so you can transfer files to another USB drive), you need 5 USB ports, with at least 2 being USB3 (for the recording HD & transfer drive). With an internal HD and more internal tuners, you'd free up 2 USB ports (and one power point if you no longer needed the USB hub), not to mention the amount of clutter you'd remove from around the PVR.

And speaking of tuners, that's the other big issue: the V2 only has 2 tuners. With 5 networks in Australia, 2 tuners just doesn't cut it. I reguarly record from 3 networks simultaneously on my T3 and U4.

For me, I won't be buying a new Beyonwiz PVR until they come out with something more like the U4.

These would be my must haves:

• Internal HD (either 2.5" or 3.5")
• Multiple USB ports, at least 2 of which are USB3 (with at least one USB3 at the front)
• At least 3 built-in tuners (all at least full HD)
• A much more reliable remote control!

HDMI in would be nice too.

Beyonwiz could keep selling the V2 as the low-cost option, but please give the rest of us something more like the U4.

[peteru]

Have you considered a NAS? That way you don't need any drives attached to the V2. You also have the option of using the microSD slot for local storage. Modern microSD cards are available in large capacities and the costs are declining.

[MrQuade]

And there's only 2 USB ports. With an external HD using the the USB3 port, there's no spare high speed port to copy recordings off the main HD unless you use a USB hub, but that then means you've got another device cluttering up the area around the PVR and you need another power point to power the hub. When you've got an external HD for recordings, wifi dongle, wireless keyboard and external USB tuner all needing USB ports (and you'd want another spare USB so you can transfer files to another USB drive), you need 5 USB ports, with at least 2 being USB3 (for the recording HD & transfer drive). With an internal HD and more internal tuners, you'd free up 2 USB ports (and one power point if you no longer needed the USB hub), not to mention the amount of clutter you'd remove from around the PVR.

That's one way to configure it.
I personally use mine with an SD card for internal storage, and use the network for copying all recordings to and from the PVR.
The V2 can utilise up to 5 tuners in total, though I have only fitted mine with a dual tuner to bring it up to 4. That's usually stacks for my own needs.

For me, I won't be buying a new Beyonwiz PVR until they come out with something more like the U4.

I honestly doubt there will be any more PVRs like this any more. The market is dwindling so rapidly as everyone switches to streaming and catchup TV.

It's more likely that future FTA recorders are built in the form of an app that runs on a generic Android base, which uses attached, or networked tuners to grab a signal.

[maverick#1]

I honestly doubt there will be any more PVRs like this any more.

Yeah, I'm wishing I'd bought a second U4 when they were still around. I'll probably end up contacting Warkus to see if he's still doing T3 power supply repairs. If I can't get the T3 fixed, I'll ciheck if there are any other similar PVRs still being sold (e.g. Topfield). If all else fails, I'll continue using my P2.

[Gully]

I'll probably end up contacting Warkus to see if he's still doing T3 power supply repairs.

Warkus has retired from the "repairing business".

[gibster]

There is the HD Homerun with up to quad tuners using Plex as the back end recording and viewing solution. Not as neat and simple as a Beyonwiz. But that option is there for people that like to play around with things.

[maverick#1]

Warkus has retired from the "repairing business".

Damn! He did a great job fixing my P2 a few years back.

[MrQuade]

There is the HD Homerun with up to quad tuners using Plex as the back end recording and viewing solution. Not as neat and simple as a Beyonwiz. But that option is there for people that like to play around with things.

And funnily enough, a Wiz can be used in place of a HDHomerun box if you want. There is a plugin that lets it do that job to act as a backend to Plex.

Plex as a DVR is a bit clumsy though.

[gibster]

There is the HD Homerun with up to quad tuners using Plex as the back end recording and viewing solution. Not as neat and simple as a Beyonwiz. But that option is there for people that like to play around with things.

And funnily enough, a Wiz can be used in place of a HDHomerun box if you want. There is a plugin that lets it do that job to act as a backend to Plex.

Plex as a DVR is a bit clumsy though.

I agree,and had played around with that plugin for a bit. That was why I mentioned it would only be good for someone that likes to play around with things. I just love the Wiz, I'm considering purchasing another to have a spare LOL.

[maverick#1]

This forum topic is "Wishlist for Next PVR?" but I get the feeling that there may not be a "next" PVR from Beyonwiz. Is anyone aware of any information - official or unofficial (but reputable) - suggesting that Beyonwiz may be working on a new PVR?

[prl]

Is anyone aware of any information - official or unofficial (but reputable) - suggesting that Beyonwiz may be working on a new PVR?

There is never any information about what's in the pipeline. Even if there is something to be released soon, those who know will have been asked not to say anything. IIRC, there was only one release where the pre-release testers were told that they could discuss the upcoming model on the forum, and even then, that was close to the release day.

Pretty much all the information about pre-release information will be posts like this.

[IanL-S]

As Peter says, those who know invariably have signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). When I have done pre-release testing for other manufactures I have always had to sign a NDA. Sometimes a proposed model is abandoned, or the hardware changed (different SoC, differnt form-factor). This happened with the IceTV SKIPPA - and, if I recall correctly, the number of tuners was decreased from 4 to 3. These changes were made by the OEM, not IceTV itself. In that case the specifications were released in advance to facilitatate advance purchases.

Ian

[prl]

As Peter says, those who know invariably have signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA).

I've never had anything so formal as that with Beyonwiz, but I simply accept that as someone asked to help with pre-release testing, and not to talk about it on the forum, I don't say anything about pre-release testing, even whether there's any going on.

[BeeJay]

I think “wishlist for next PVR” is like asking what’s your wishlist for the next optical disk format. There won’t be one.

My Topfield is dying and so I did the hunt for replacement PVRs. There is Panasonic (with all its FreeView crippledness, including encrypting recordings so they can’t be copied), there’s Beyonwiz, and there’s Humax. I think that’s it now.

I bought Beyonwiz because it seemed closest in functionality and customisability as Topfield. I hope it will last me another 10 years and be my last ever PVR.

Everyone streams stuff now on demand. Recording FTA is a case of “OK, boomer”.

[mkwilson]

I think “wishlist for next PVR” is like asking what’s your wishlist for the next optical disk format. There won’t be one.

My Topfield is dying and so I did the hunt for replacement PVRs. There is Panasonic (with all its FreeView crippledness, including encrypting recordings so they can’t be copied), there’s Beyonwiz, and there’s Humax. I think that’s it now.

I bought Beyonwiz because it seemed closest in functionality and customisability as Topfield. I hope it will last me another 10 years and be my last ever PVR.

Everyone streams stuff now on demand. Recording FTA is a case of “OK, boomer”.

There's also the Fetch and Fetch Mighty. Quite common, but also hamstrung by Freeview requirements. You can, it seems get files off the boxes with a bit of stuffing around.